JTV-69 Acoustic Model Issues

[changingparadigm]

I have a JTV-69 (Korean) paired with an HD500x and the acoustic models are giving me a major issue w/ the sound when hitting certain frets.  Typically the string/fret that make this noise is A-7&8th fret and also D-4th fret.  The sound is almost like a feedback and horrible resonance sound where the sound is much louder than the other frets.  Anyone else notice this issue with the acoustic models. 

[Charlie_Watt]

No but make sure you are not getting fret buzz.  Play it with no electronics and listen for buzz everywhere on the fretboard.  Fret buzz will really mess up the modeling.

[cruisinon2]

Even a modest amount of fret buzz, which would likely go unnoticed thru mag pickups, can result in some really ugly sounds with the modeling...especially for the acoustics.

[psarkissian]

If it's on those fret positions and strings, then sounds like the set-up needs

a little adjusting to remove fret buzz. I would recommend an authorized Line 6

service center guitar technician check it out.

[changingparadigm]

Thanks for the feedback.  I've actaully had this set up by a luthier and still have this issue.  I've got no buzzing on the guitar.  Maybe I have a bad guitar but not sure. I've got a ticket into Line 6 support that i'm waiting a reply on.

[psarkissian]

The guy at Line 6 replying to you is consulting me,... we work in the same building.

I heard the audio file, there's a very slight warble. Usually that's a result of the pick-up's

magnetic field being too close and pulling on the string while in Model mode, and the

piezos brings in that entire result to the processor.

 

The pick-up height adjustment is a starting point.

Very slight adjust,... by a guitar tech.

[cruisinon2]

Thanks for the feedback. I've actaully had this set up by a luthier and still have this issue. I've got no buzzing on the guitar. Maybe I have a bad guitar but not sure. I've got a ticket into Line 6 support that i'm waiting a reply on.

If the problem really is the proximity of the mag pickups to the strings as suggested above, then that's easily remedied. And imho, you don't need a guitar tech to do it. You need a screwdriver...and about 8.5 to 10 seconds of free time. It's worth a shot. Try it out and let us know if it helped.

[Charlie_Watt]

IMO every serious guitar player should learn how to do a guitar setup.  There are many good books out there with plenty of step by step instructions on how to do it.  I don't buy that a Variax is so special that you have to send it to Line6 for a setup. 

[changingparadigm]

psarkissian

Thank you for the reply.  I am going to take the variax to an authorized service center to see if they can help adjust. 

 

The warble in the audio file was very suttle as I was very lightly plucking the strings.  In typical play it is magnified much more.  But I hope to report good news after I bring the guitar in to the service center and will share my results. 

[changingparadigm]

Just ready the posts about adjusting the pickup's myself.  I am going to try that.  Looks like a piece of cake to do it.  I dont think i need to wait 4 days for the service center to take a quick look and do 1 minute of work on the pick ups.

[cruisinon2]

IMO every serious guitar player should learn how to do a guitar setup. There are many good books out there with plenty of step by step instructions on how to do it. I don't buy that a Variax is so special that you have to send it to Line6 for a setup.

Hallelujah! Can I get an 'Amen'?!?!?!

 

If the fancy electronics completely take a dump, you might need assistance...but the rest of it is still just an electric guitar, same as every other one that has ever walked the earth. And the dreaded "set-up" is not nearly as supernatural as many seem to think.

[cruisinon2]

Just ready the posts about adjusting the pickup's myself. I am going to try that. Looks like a piece of cake to do it. I dont think i need to wait 4 days for the service center to take a quick look and do 1 minute of work on the pick ups.

As long as you don't attempt the adjustment with a broadsword or chainsaw, there's no possible way to cause any permenent damage...easiest thing in the world to do.

[psarkissian]

"I don't buy that a Variax is so special that you have to send it to Line6 for a setup"---

No, you don't need to send it to Line 6 for a set-up. But an authorized tech who can check

and spec it out, and dial it in.

 

Local climate will affect things like neck relief and such. I get musicians who travel, I set it up

for the "general" climate of their location.

 

"... the dreaded "set-up" is not nearly as supernatural as many seem to think"--- correct, 

though it's not magic, it has to be done correctly by someone with experience. I get too many

back for a host of reasons, when all it really needed was to have the set-up dialed in a little tighter.

 

Also, changing string gauges changes the the tension, which in turn changes the set-up, which

then requires the set-up be re-adjusted for the different string gauge.

 

It's not magic, it's a balancing act of balancing tensions and adjustments, and dialing it all in.

[cruisinon2]

"I don't buy that a Variax is so special that you have to send it to Line6 for a setup"---

No, you don't need to send it to Line 6 for a set-up. But an authorized tech who can check

and spec it out, and dial it in.

 

Local climate will affect things like neck relief and such. I get musicians who travel, I set it up

for the "general" climate of their location.

 

"... the dreaded "set-up" is not nearly as supernatural as many seem to think"--- correct,

though it's not magic, it has to be done correctly by someone with experience. I get too many

back for a host of reasons, when all it really needed was to have the set-up dialed in a little tighter.

 

Also, changing string gauges changes the the tension, which in turn changes the set-up, which

then requires the set-up be re-adjusted for the different string gauge.

 

It's not magic, it's a balancing act of balancing tensions and adjustments, and dialing it all in.

I know that the official respsonse will never be anything other than that an "authorized tech" needs to do the work. I'm also pretty sure that you are good at what you do, or you wouldn't be doing it.

 

But what I meant was, and what I suspect the other poster meant as well, is that any competent tech should be able to do a set up on a Variax, "authorized" or not. I have a guy I've been using for 15 years for the more complicated stuff (fretwork, etc) that I have neither the experience nor the patience for myself. He builds both solid body electrics and archtops from the tree stump on up. I'd stack his skills up against anybody's, even without having been annointed as "authorized" by L6.

 

I suspect there are lots of Variax owners for whom going to an "authorized service center" simply is not practical, and I think it does them a disservice to imply that nothing but an "authorized" tech is capable of doing the job. It's also a distinct possibility that you are scaring away prospective buyers if they think that they will have to go to the ends of the earth to have basic service done. Just my 2 cents.

[Charlie_Watt]

Anyone who knows how to properly set up a standard electric guitar should be able to set up a JTV.  I agree that the electronics are special but the nut, neck, bridge, truss rod are standard guitar stuff.  I have not had any problem making minor adjustments on my Variax guitars.  Fortunately, that is all that they have needed.  I replace the nut on my 500 and tweaked the string heights.  I had to tweak the string heights on the Low E and A on my JTV when I got it to cure some fret buzz.  Easy and same as adjusting my Strat.

[wankieguitar]

I wrote about the ridiculous resonance on the F# at the 4th fret on the D string several years ago

It only occurs on the Gibson J200 Model

 

It has nothing to do with guitar setup. I do setups every day for the last 30 years

 

How could the problem on the other user's guitar be a flawed setup on F# on two different strings and different frets?

 

Either we have the same flaw (I have a JTV59) or there is a flaw in the sample or whatever they call the digital representation of that pitch.

 

I had hoped it would be addressed in a firmware update. not so in firmware 2.21 evidently

[cruisinon2]

How could the problem on the other user's guitar be a flawed setup on F# on two different strings and different frets?

 

Either we have the same flaw (I have a JTV59) or there is a flaw in the sample or whatever they call the digital representation of that pitch.

 

I had hoped it would be addressed in a firmware update. not so in firmware 2.21 evidently

 

I'm not an L6 anointed expert, but I can't see it being a set-up issue either. I use that J200 model quite a lot...it's really the only one of the acoustics that I like, and I've never noticed any pitches jumping out at me, so it's not universal. That leaves the guitar itself as the source of the problem. Many guitars will resonate oddly at certain frequencies...dead spots and notes that just die are a common occurence, I've owned several. So if that can occur, I don't see why it would be out of the realm of possibility to have an axe that just seems to ring a little louder at a certain pitch...couple that with piezos, which are far more sensitive than a mag pickup, and a boomy note or two wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

What I do know is the JTVs are not samplers...there are no canned pitches being triggered anywhere, so that's not it. Most, if not all of the oddities that these guitars exhibit (many of which are associated with the alternate tunings) can be boiled down to physical/mechanical phenomena...piezo crosstalk, "ghost notes", etc... As good as it is, some of the technology isn't quite there yet...point is, I wouldn't hold my breath for a firmware solution. I seriously doubt that the issue is software, or we'd all have the exact same issues.

[rdeshenbaugh]

I have a JTV-89F that I recently purchased that exhibits the same resonance problem with the Gibson J200 model.  I haven't seen any followup on this issue within the forum and I understand that these issues can be hard to track down when they are not occurring across the board for everyone.  But it is still irritating to deal with when buying a new piece of gear, esp. when buying the jtv primarily for its acoustic models to alleviate some arthritic hand issues when playing actual acoustics. As mentioned previously in this thread, it makes the J200 model unusable as is, e.g. when plugging directly into my Roland AC-60 acoustic amp (I was not able to remove it with that amp's tone controls).  I've gotten around it with a parametric eq in the pod hd500x to kill the resonance with a tight Q setting.  But there are times that I don't really need or want to use the pod at certain gigs.

 

Here are my observations on the issue in case there is anyone listening:

 

• It is only evident on the Gibson J200 model.  No problem with mags or any of the other stock models on the JTV-89F.
• As mentioned previously in this stream, it is evident on the D string 4th fret, A string 9th fret, E string 14th fret.  Surrounding frets do not exhibit any problems.
• Interestingly, if I use an alternate tuning, e.g. 1/2 Down, 1 Down, etc., it still occurs on the F# pitch (i.e. rather than the physical frets associated with the F# in standard tuning)
• It occurs even if I am listening on headphones when attached to the pod hd500x (i.e. not based on audio level feedback).
• All of this (including it being seen on different jtv's) seems to indicate that it is an artifact of the model rather than some physical characteristic of the guitar.  But it is possible that something physical is also contributing.

[psarkissian]

Line 6 authorized tech who does guitars, and have the set-up checked for fret buzz,

and maybe the intonation needs to be dialed in a little tighter.

[mclair1]

I have the same issues on my 59...I get these incredibly annoying almost feedback sounds from certain notes. The neck on mine is great, no buzz, intonation is set, I am a luthier and have been building guitars for about 30 years. I do a lot of service work for the locals here as well. I also play in a pink Floyd tribute act and i really need to be able to switch to acoustic without using a Gracie stand and an acoustic guitar. I love the guitar and think the tele and strat tones are good, I use those mainly, but the acoustics are rather disappointing. I also use the Helix with this guitar and have not really found a good method using eq to dial it out without really messing with the overall tone. Are there different saddles that can be used? the other issue is the plinky noise when using the les paul and strat sounds. On the Low E and A strings, sounds like the Pickups in the saddles are getting an overtone. Any suggestions would be welcome. Thank you all...

[cruisinon2]

I have the same issues on my 59...I get these incredibly annoying almost feedback sounds from certain notes. The neck on mine is great, no buzz, intonation is set, I am a luthier and have been building guitars for about 30 years. I do a lot of service work for the locals here as well. I also play in a pink Floyd tribute act and i really need to be able to switch to acoustic without using a Gracie stand and an acoustic guitar. I love the guitar and think the tele and strat tones are good, I use those mainly, but the acoustics are rather disappointing. I also use the Helix with this guitar and have not really found a good method using eq to dial it out without really messing with the overall tone. Are there different saddles that can be used? the other issue is the plinky noise when using the les paul and strat sounds. On the Low E and A strings, sounds like the Pickups in the saddles are getting an overtone. Any suggestions would be welcome. Thank you all...

You don't mention how you're amplifying Helix, but if you're not running an FRFR speaker(s), you can forget about getting anything that resembles a convincing acoustic tone. You'll never get there with a traditional guitar amp or cabinet, and you'll lose your mind trying...the frequency response just isn't there. As the saying goes, "you can't get there from here".

 

As for the piezo "plink" on the lower strings...good luck. Any one unit either has it, or it doesn't. Alleged "fixes" have been debated to death, are mostly ineffective, and even when one works it's usually peculiar to that particular instrument. A universal solution has eluded affected Variaxers for years.

[cbcfly]

My JTV-69 has exactly the same issue with F# resonance on the J200 model (which is my preferred acoustic model).  It actually starts to resonate somewhat on either side of F#.  Just as previously described it happens on the D string 4th fret, A string 9th fret, and E string 14th fret.   I believe technically it's F#3, which is at185 Hz.   It plays much louder than the surrounding notes. Also as described above, it moves frets when the pitch is changed by a 1/2 step or whole step.  I play through FRFR speakers or headphones, and it happens on both.

 

My guitar is also Korean, although I don't think that's an issue.  It plays fine everywhere else - no real plinking issues, buzz, etc.  Other than this issue, I really enjoy the guitar.  The acoustic modeling has been frustrating and disappointing though - and it was one of the major reasons I bought the Variax.  I've been trying to EQ the resonance out, but I'm still trying to get a grip on how the Parametic EQ on my Pod HD500X works.  rdeshenbaugh would you mind sharing your parametric settings?

[davidb7170]

Try adjusting the string volume oh HD Work Bench for the offensive string on that model. I have done this on several models. Worked for me. Maybe worth a try.

 

Dave

[Rewolf48]

I have the same problem with that model, and it is most obvious with the 4th string, but there are harmonic resonances all over the place. Yes you can get the fundamental with a parametric on the HD500, but once you notice it then it is all you can hear. If you are a Helix user with a DAW and can generate in IR from an FX chain, then use the DAW parametric with as many notches as needed to get it so there is no nasty resonances then you can create your own IR to fix it - and apply any other EQ that you would normally do.

It does cause problems - it is the best feeling acoustic model with nice body, but when the bass player is telling you that everybody else in the band doesn't like that nasty resonant sound when you play acoustic models then you have to do something.

I really think it is a problem with the original guitar being modelled and is built into the model - I don't see how it can appear in many instances of different JTV 59, 69 and 89 otherwise, and not impact on any other modelled guitar. 

[guitarno]

I'm dredging up this old thread. I previously had a JTV-59 which had the exact same issue (F# resonance) mentioned in this thread. I sold that guitar after a few years. Fast forward to now - I recently picked up another (Used) JTV-59. I regretted selling the 1st one at times and found myself in a position that I need to do fast changes from acoustic & electric guitar for gigs. The Variax seemed to be the perfect answer to that. I also forgot how nice the JTV-59 is to play. It is a really nice guitar in it's own right, without considering the modeling.

 

   Well I've got the same acoustic model F# resonance issue with this one that I had with the 1st. It was so bad at a recent practice at a hall I play in that I had to abandon the patch (and acoustic Variax model) I was using. I later edited it to include a notch @ 180 Hz (Para EQ won't do 185 Hz, only 180 or 190), and that helped but I couldn't cut enough to eliminate it completely. I also ended up with an acoustic tone that was not great but at least didn't howl.

 

     I totally reject the notion that it is caused by fret buzz. It plays very well, the action is not uber low, there is no audible fret buzz, it does not happen with the mags, or other models. This is definitely something with the acoustic model itself, or the interaction with the model and other physical factors unknown at this point. I remember screwing around with the string volumes in work bench and maybe that will help but I do want to hear that string in balance with the others on all other notes.

Here we go again...

[dstenberg]

I am seeing the same problem with a resonance at 92.5, and 185 Hz, especially noticeable on the Gibson J200 Model.  This is definitely not a setup/fretbuzz problem.

 

guitarno, I also used the parametric eq on helix to notch it out and noticed that the mid range frequency goes down to 185 Hz and increments by 10 Hz in this range (185, 195, etc) so you can set a notch at 185 Hz.  I also hear it an octave lower at the 2nd fret and therefore am using the low frequency notch at 93 Hz. 

 

With these notches, it gets rid of the howling at F#, but I still hear distortion, predominantly on 1 semitone up on the open G.  It doesn't sound like the same howling noise but still isn't perfect.  Does Line 6 agree that this is real problem that is would seem would be fixable in the model?  It is very to repeat on both my 69S and my 89F.

[cubbini]

I have the same problem with that model (JTV69, all acoustic models)- there are howling harmonic resonances all over the place!  Had to use a Behringer feedback destroyer in parametric mode to control 10 flagrant problems.  My Variax 700 shows no tendency to do this. If it weren't for the much better 12 string models and the individual model string volume capability, I would switch back to the 700 - I prefer the 6 string acoustics in the 700 - no "boxy" sound.

[psarkissian]

Whistling and howling is typically the set-up needs to be dialed in,... intonation, action,

being on the verge of fret buzz, wearing of the nut slots. See my prior posts here.

 

 

[cubbini]

psarkissian  you really amaze me!   

Always responding.......... you are VERY diligent!

[psarkissian]

Thanks. You're catching me while I'm at work.

After work,... it's hit or miss if I'm at the coffee shop WiFi.

 

 

[brue58ski]

psarkinssian is the best.

[psarkissian]

Thank you.

 

[cubbini]

On 11/24/2014 at 9:39 AM, changingparadigm said:

I have a JTV-69 (Korean) paired with an HD500x and the acoustic models are giving me a major issue w/ the sound when hitting certain frets.  Typically the string/fret that make this noise is A-7&8th fret and also D-4th fret.  The sound is almost like a feedback and horrible resonance sound where the sound is much louder than the other frets.  Anyone else notice this issue with the acoustic models. 

try lowering the bass in your hd patch for this model......... when i cut mine down a lot the problem disappeared.............