Helix and the DT amps

[STPLE]

Thanks guys. I thought I did what ricksteruk said. I'll try again later tonight or tomorrow. For some reason I couldn't get it to work. Maybe I had the FX send block and Fx return block in the wrong place in the signal chain??

 

I was using my headphones. Could that be the problem?? I wonder if headphones won't here the FX loop?? But I doubt it.

 

Thanks guys - I think I'm probably missing one step somewhere - thanks for your help.

[STPLE]

I just tried it again. Works perfectly. No idea about last night!! Thanks.

[STPLE]

I just tried it again. Works perfectly. No idea about last night!! Thanks.

 

I think the RC return signal was really soft - so I had to boost it and turn the mix up.

 

Thanks guys - sounds great by the way.

[ricksteruk]

I just tried it again. Works perfectly. No idea about last night!! Thanks.

 

I think the RC return signal was really soft - so I had to boost it and turn the mix up.

 

Thanks guys - sounds great by the way.

 

That's great! Glad you've managed to get it to do what you wanted :)

[STPLE]

Hey guys things seem to be working better - I'm still confused a bit with the setup.  I totally understand why the tone controls don't work (drive channel volume, etc.) b/c with this setup I'm by passing the modeled preamp on the DT25.  Why would the DT Master be off as well??  That doesn't make sense to me.  Shouldn't the DT master still work?  When I turn the DT master all the way down it sounds exactly the same as if I turn the DT master all the way up.  If I put it on standby (with the mix on the return at 100%) then after a about 3 seconds the signal is cut out entirely.

 

The patch looks like simply - these are the blocks on the signal chain:  amp/preamp -> Fx Send1 -> Fx Return1 from the amp -> IR -> Reverb.  Should I have the FX send and FX return right next to each other??  Total newbie question.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Also, I'll look through the Helix forums when I get a chance but what does the mix on Return1 actually do??  It seems at 100% it takes all the return volume and nothing else.  If it is zero it takes none - seems that it is blending the pre FX signal and return FX signal.  Make sense to have that 100% to get all of the power amp??

[STPLE]

Ok. I realize now that the DT master is before the FX loop.

I would guess then the master is set then at 100% and the DT master just pulls the signal back.

Am I right - 100%?

That'll be fine by me if that's true. I usually set the master at about 3 o clock.

The more I learn about this setup the realize the less I know!!

[Hendrix35]

I'm glad I read this.  I have a hd500 and I cannot live without the topology recall with my dt50 head.  I just saved myself a $1500 cluster****.  I will just upgrade to the 500x and I'm sure be very happy.  This is a major F U to DT owners Line 6, Shame on you!

[DarrellM5]

I'm glad I read this.  I have a hd500 and I cannot live without the topology recall with my dt50 head.  I just saved myself a $1500 cluster****.  I will just upgrade to the 500x and I'm sure be very happy.  This is a major F U to DT owners Line 6, Shame on you!

 

Why wouldn't sending a MIDI command to select the topology you want work for you?  It works for me.

[Hendrix35]

Why wouldn't sending a MIDI command to select the topology you want work for you?  It works for me.

 

So is the Helix 3 times better than the Pod500X with the DT?  Do you have a head or combo?  How much is a 25' or 50' midi cable?  Is this method reliable?  Does it take a lot more programming?

[DarrellM5]

So is the Helix 3 times better than the Pod500X with the DT?  Do you have a head or combo?  How much is a 25' or 50' midi cable?  Is this method reliable?  Does it take a lot more programming?

 

Is it worth 3x as much as the HD500X?  To me, absolutely.  I could never go back to the HD500X.  Better fx, better amps, way better routing options, 

 

A 25' MIDI cable runs $12 from Sweetwater.  50' costs a little more.

 

Helix is way more intuitive programming wise.  It's much easier to create a patch than on the HD500X.

[wdebona]

So, Helix connected to a DT amp via L6-Link works!

Just the class and topology needs to be set via midi or manually, right?

 

I'm currently using DT 25 connencted to POD HD500 but I need more blocks on my patches.

I would like to buy an Helix but I still having some doubts...

 

Thanks for the clarification!

[DarrellM5]

So, Helix connected to a DT amp via L6-Link works!

Just the class and topology needs to be set via midi or manually, right?

 

I'm currently using DT 25 connencted to POD HD500 but I need more blocks on my patches.

I would like to buy an Helix but I still having some doubts...

 

Thanks for the clarification!

 

Yep, it works great.  I'm using it constantly.  I originally planned on keeping my HD500X as a backup and for the DT integration.  After 1 week with the Helix I ended up selling the HD500X because I realized I could never see myself going back to it.

[wdebona]

Yep, it works great.  I'm using it constantly.  I originally planned on keeping my HD500X as a backup and for the DT integration.  After 1 week with the Helix I ended up selling the HD500X because I realized I could never see myself going back to it.

Many thanks DarrellM5!

 

William

[STPLE]

It is so simple it's crazy. From previous posts I had already purchased an m-audio midi device to upgrade the DT25.  Using DT Edit - just turn off everything in channel B (previous posts).  I have never used a midi cable in my life.  I bought one and I figured out how to do it in about 5 minutes without getting the Helix manual out.  You most likely will need the DT25 Midi guide - page 2.2.  You go to command center and program the first midi command to the desired typology.  The command is 122 then the next block in the command you put in 4,5,6 or 7 for Channel B voicing that you want.  It works great evertime.

 

I'm still learning all this stuff so if I can do anyone can.

 

I've had the Helix about 3 weeks now.  I haven't used it live yet but will very soon.  I play at a church so no stage volume and run in ear monitors and everything is through a PA.  Running a real cab and micing it is not a good option for me right now. 

 

So everything I do is coming back from the amp to the Helix (FX loop) and then will go back out of the XLR to the PA.

 

Here is what I found in a SHORT time and still learning - some amps sound great with the preamp and the DT.  Some amp models sound great with the full amp model and the DT.  To my very pleasant surprise - many of the Helix amp models sound fantastic without the DT as well.  So I envision running the DT with the FX loop for some songs in a particular set - while bypassing the DT all together and running just direct amp models from the Helix for some songs in a set. 

 

FYI - I've had the PODHD for about 5 years - It's awesome but I'm not going back either.

[ice9mike]

It is so simple it's crazy. From previous posts I had already purchased an m-audio midi device to upgrade the DT25.  Using DT Edit - just turn off everything in channel B (previous posts).  I have never used a midi cable in my life.  I bought one and I figured out how to do it in about 5 minutes without getting the Helix manual out.  You most likely will need the DT25 Midi guide - page 2.2.  You go to command center and program the first midi command to the desired typology.  The command is 122 then the next block in the command you put in 4,5,6 or 7 for Channel B voicing that you want.  It works great evertime.

 

I'm still learning all this stuff so if I can do anyone can.

 

I've had the Helix about 3 weeks now.  I haven't used it live yet but will very soon.  I play at a church so no stage volume and run in ear monitors and everything is through a PA.  Running a real cab and micing it is not a good option for me right now. 

 

So everything I do is coming back from the amp to the Helix (FX loop) and then will go back out of the XLR to the PA.

 

Here is what I found in a SHORT time and still learning - some amps sound great with the preamp and the DT.  Some amp models sound great with the full amp model and the DT.  To my very pleasant surprise - many of the Helix amp models sound fantastic without the DT as well.  So I envision running the DT with the FX loop for some songs in a particular set - while bypassing the DT all together and running just direct amp models from the Helix for some songs in a set. 

 

FYI - I've had the PODHD for about 5 years - It's awesome but I'm not going back either.

 

Just a clarification. CC#122 controls the DT amp voicing which includes topology, class A/AB, reverb, cabinet type (for direct out), etc.

 

I too sold my HD500 once I realized how easy it was to implement the voicing selection in my Helix presets. It still would be very nice to have only one cable and automatic DT amp control. Hopefully we still get this functionality in the next firmware.

[ftc111172]

Hi!

I have also the Helix with the DT25.

Can Anybody make a screenshot of the Clobal IQ Settings.

and what is your Settings for the Low and High Cut if you use a Cab or a IR?

cu

Ftc

[DarrellM5]

Hi!

I have also the Helix with the DT25.

Can Anybody make a screenshot of the Clobal IQ Settings.

and what is your Settings for the Low and High Cut if you use a Cab or a IR?

cu

Ftc

 

When I'm using my DT25 with the Helix, I have the Global EQ off.  I also don't use a cab or IR since it's going into a real cab.

[gmathis501]

A picture is worth a 1000 words.  Here's a quick video I did showing how to send midi from the Helix Edit to the DT and control

all the features in the DT from Helix.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O56WEFB0FIU

[radatats]

nice job Gary.  One of the things I learned from messing with this stuff way too much is the DT will stay in the last state you gave it.  Whatever the last config you sent it was, that's where it will be until you send it more signals.  Also unless you turn off the DT internal amps and cabs your Helix signal goes right over top of them.  So the best way I found to make it work the most consistent and easy way was to go into the DT with DT Edit and set all 8 voicings to no amp or cab.  I configured all 4 channel A voicings to Class A, topology I-IV and all 4 Channel B voicings to Class AB, topology I-IV.

 

This lets you just build your tone entirely in the Helix using Helix amps and cabs or IRs.  All you have to do is program the midi signal to select Channel A or B, I-IV and the amp is already configured for you.  Just use Midi CC 122, 0-7 to select the channel and voice you want for a patch or snapshot.  Hope that helps...

[roscoe5]

OK, I scored a DT50 head for real cheap and its on the way. I couldn't pass it up. I had previously messed with a DT50 112 combo from GC, but returned it after a couple if days. I'll be using this head with my Recto 2x12. I didn't try that before. I have a lot more experience with Helix this time around too.

 

The DT Helix templates (new with 2.0?) look like a good start. It seems like you could load up several preamps in the same preset and use Snapshots to toggle them on/off, as well as change DT power amp MIDI commands. Has anyone tried this?

[DarrellM5]

OK, I scored a DT50 head for real cheap and its on the way. I couldn't pass it up. I had previously messed with a DT50 112 combo from GC, but returned it after a couple if days. I'll be using this head with my Recto 2x12. I didn't try that before. I have a lot more experience with Helix this time around too.

 

The DT Helix templates (new with 2.0?) look like a good start. It seems like you could load up several preamps in the same preset and use Snapshots to toggle them on/off, as well as change DT power amp MIDI commands. Has anyone tried this?

 

Nice.  My DT25 head sounds great into my Recto 2x12.  

 

I'll have to try out the new presets.

[STPLE]

I thought I would share my experience with Helix and DT25.  I used it for the first time live and it is now 100% part of the gear I'll use from now on.  I'm not a professional musician by any means but been playing at church (and a few bands before then) for over 20 years.  Forum members have been very helpful to me over the years and I hope this helps a few out there considering getting the Helix with DT amps.  I love the combination and will not go back to the PODHD500 - in fact it is for sale now. 

 

I play at church so my setup is in ears, PA and no stage volume (no amp cab).

 

My setup is:  Guitar -> Helix -> FX send (line level) -> DT25 amp in (FX on back of amp - NOT the instrument input in front) -> Rivera Rockcrusher Recording as reactive loadbox  (EQ is OFF) -> FX Return (line level) ->Helix Cab or IR -> XLR out to the PA Board.  This two cable method basically uses only the Power Section of the DT25.  The master volume is then at 100% (which I like) - all the tone controls (DT preamp) and Master Volume is disabled on the DT. 

 

I take all the advice from past forum posts - with m-audio device and DT Edit - I turn everything off in channel B.  Then set up for topologies Class AB for I,II & IV.  Class A for III. 

 

Sometimes I'll use the full amp models and then I typically will run them to the DT25 in Class AB Topology I (the cleanest).  When I use the preamps (not full amp models) I will typically run them how they are in the real world - for example VOX amps in Class A topology III.

 

I have one midi cable that I run along side my FX cables to control the DT from the Helix.  SUPER Easy.  In Helix command center - one midi command and you're good to go.  First time in my life using a midi cable.

 

I haven't yet but I will sometimes bypass the DT entirely and just use the Helix full amp models.  The Helix sounds amazing by itself.  Sometimes I think it even sounds better without the DT.  I've also worked on dual paths using the DT in one path and not in the other path - haven't spent that much time on that but I know I will.  Again all of these patches can be used within the same set flawlessly.

 

I also switch quite a bit to acoustic.  So in a set it is great with Helix.  I have the acoustic patch set to 1/4 output and the electric set to the XLR output.  I can very easily pick up my Martin and bypass the amp without fiddling around.  Makes me want to buy a PRS P22 or P24!!

 

I love the combination of DT and Helix.  It performed flawlessly at rehearsal and live.

I think the only disappointment for me is that several of the preamp models are very soft and can't be used with other amp models, etc.  I don't understand why.  Others like the Mesa and Bassman are hot enough to run the preamp models into the power configuration of the DT.

 

The workaround the Line6 Link is totally worth it.  Again for my setup - no cab or stage noise I prefer this setup probably better than using the Line6 Link with PODHD and running out the XLR DT Head.  I like having the signal come back through and adding IRs, etc.  I understand if you are micing a cab then this may not be ideal for you but it's great for me.

 

Lastly, I've had great success with using quality headphones for tone and patch building.  For what I'm doing it translates incredibly well to the PA and House speakers.  Never perfect but really good.

 

I hope this is helpful for others - again just my experience.

[johnfrancis]

 

I also switch quite a bit to acoustic.  So in a set it is great with Helix.  I have the acoustic patch set to 1/4 output and the electric set to the XLR output.  I can very easily pick up my Martin and bypass the amp without fiddling around.  Makes me want to buy a PRS P22 or P24!!

 

 

 

I have a PRS P24 . . . . this makes me want to buy a Helix  :D

[diggerbarnz]

do you have to set certain midi channel BEFORE starting this hookup of interface? - seems to me you had to be on channel 1 when updating DT amp etc

[DarrellM5]

do you have to set certain midi channel BEFORE starting this hookup of interface? - seems to me you had to be on channel 1 when updating DT amp etc

 

I don't recall that being an issue.

[the_bees_knees22]

So not to side track the thread, but i have a question:

've been playing with the Helix/DT setup vs just straight Helix when recording direct.  I have to say they're so similar after balancing the levels to be equal that I'm almost contemplating just using the straight Helix when recording.   I can't really say one is better than the other... just slightly different.

Is anyone else have a drastic difference?  Or is everyone maybe getting a 10% difference between the two when recording direct?

I've currently opted for the 4 cable method after trying a bunch of different routing techniques.  

[tarotmusic]

Ok...I've had the Helix since june and I've done a ton of live gigs with it since,always plugging direct into mixing board using inears,or an L2 speaker with L6 link.

I also have the DT25 and DT50.And Finally,today I had the chance to do something I've really been looking forward to: combining Helix and the DTs via L6 link...

I havent even gotten to the midi part yet,still trying to figure out if its worth the efort...😛

After reading all these posts here in the forum I dowloaded the DT edit sofware and decided to wipe one of the chanels clean in order to start A/B'ing the Helix tone and the respective tone from the DT matching all the typologies,amps,cabs,etc...aside from the obvious diferences in the amp/cab sims(HD vs Helix) everything was going fine,they both sound good...until I started trying the high gain models(rectifier,soldano,uberschall,etc...),they are completly useless and dont even come close or resemble the ones in the DT!!😩...so,I go from typology I to III thinking "ok...this is doable,sounds good..." and get to IV and get so frustrated!!! 😧😩

Am I missing something?...what did I do wrong?!

Can anyone help me out here?

[DarrellM5]

Are you running the Helix preamps or full amp models into the DT?

[tarotmusic]

I'm running the full amp models with the respective cab since thats the way the DT is set up in the edit software.

Basically I'm plugging the helix via L6 Link and using channel B with all the settings completely cleared and matching each one of the amps on typologys I,II,III and IV respectively. Then I play some and listen. After that,I unplug the L6 Link and my guitar from the Helix,switch to channel A on the DT,plug my guitar directly in to the DT,play some and compare...and just as I mentioned before everything sounds fine until I configure the treadplate(or any other high gain amp...) on the Helix and match typology IV,class A/B,Penthode on the DT...it sounds like crap and not even close to high gain...I even tried matching all the EQ,compensating channel volumes,etc...

[tarotmusic]

Meanwhile did some more testing...I've just realised the amp models with no cab sound better when going into the DT with the Helix.I'm still a bit reluctant with the High gain models though...they sound good,I just think that calling them "high gain" is a bit far fetched...

[DarrellM5]

Try using the Helix preamps into the DT.  Even with everything turned off via DT Edit you're still using the DT's power amp and actual cabinet.  If you're running full amp models then your signal path is Helix preamp -> Helix power amp -> DT power amp -> DT cabinet.  This would mean you're stacking power amps.  Sometimes that sounds fine but sometimes it doesn't.  It's worth a shot.

[radatats]

I've been using my DT25 regularly with Helix as you described, L6 link with the DT cleaned out, just the power section.  I use full amp models and sometimes cabs or IR's too.  I have no issues with the high gain models however, I haven't even tried to see if they match the DT internals.  I may give that a shot this week and report back.  TBH, I'm not that interested in matching them but I am interested to see what you are talking about.  I did trybeing realistic with topologies in the beginning but aftera while I really can't see the benefit.  Topo I is as good as the others but III is definitely louder and different.  Not necessarily better.

[tarotmusic]

Did some more experimenting...

I Know what you guys are saying...and it makes sense,but what I've taken from this,is that things don't really have to make sense,as long as it sounds good.The greatest proof of this,is the way the DT is originally set up,the path goes: full pre-amp,power-amp and cab model ->DT power-amp ->DT cab. This doesn't make any sense,there should only be a pre-amp model to begin with,the rest is already there...why feed a power-amp+cab model into another power-amp,right?!

Thats why the first thing that I did,"trying to make sense", was use only the pre-amp models on the Helix.Despite the big output discrepencies some sounded good and some(high-gain models) sounded awful.That being said,I kept going through the different models in the Helix.The best results I've gotten so far,are with the full amp models,no cab...and it sounds really good,I wouldn't say better,just different and more realistic regarding the original amps.

As for trying to match the amps in the DT with the Helix...you can't really,there quite different.The P75 bright in tipology II for instance,is dirtier and more organic,I find,although I didn't think that was possible...never had any complaints about the DT not sounding organic...

The Rectifier in the DT which I love so much,although I must admit,it sounds awesome but nothing like a real Rectifier as opposed to the Helix Rectifier,the only reason it doesn't sound closer to the original is that you would need a power amp with more head-rom and bigger cab...I guess,but still not even close to the one in the DT.

So basically my DTs are destined to become power-engines like my Tech21.

[tarotmusic]

As for all the other people in this post complaining about this issue,I agree with you guys,LINE6 SHOULD DEFINITELY MAKE THE HELIX AND DTs FULLY COMPATIBLE...SOMEHOW!...you're the engineers,you figure it out!

I also have an L2T and a complete StageSource P.A.(2xL3m+2xL3s) that sound awesome...and a Tech21 power engine 60,and they all make great solutions in conjunction with the Helix or the HD500(have one to!).That being said,make no mistake,nothing compares to having a real tube amp behind you in a real live situation.Yeah,sure,there's always the four cable method,but its a bit limiting considering you could have the dream rig...

Never the less it certainly is worth losing a bit of your time and working this Helix/DT thing out,midi cable and all,as is.Trust me,its worth it and they sound great together...you will not want to go back.You just have to be willing to change...

My HD500 has now just become a backup.

[agbiggs]

For me, the biggest advantage of Helix over the POD HD's is simplicity of use -- both can create great tones, but it's much easier for ME to create the tone I want in Helix than it ever was with the HD500. It's just much easier to use.

So in thinking about DT integration, simplicity matters more to me than being able to deep-dive into every parameter. I'm not going to say not to deep-diving if it's offered. But since Line 6's time and resources are limited, I'd say that simple, easy-to-use Helix-DT integration matters most. Say, being able to use just the L6 Link cable rather than adding a Midi cable and use Midi commands, stuff like that. 

[scotty_burford]

I tried integrating the DT with the Helix yesterday but I'm not sure if I did it correctly. Any advice would be most gratefully received as I have a few shows coming up in the next week and I need this sorted. I've been using a Vox AC15 and small pedalboard for recent gigs but I have some shows where I need what the Helix offers in terms versatility. 

Anyway enough of my babble on that.

I tried going through the steps mentioned here to remove all unwanted parameters from the DT. I'm not sure if I got it right or not.

 

I've taken a screen shot of DT Edit as seen here https://goo.gl/photos/pokxmsZct7oNodyN6

 

My questions are:

1. Do I worry about the preamp setting at all, or is that being handled by the Helix? The patch I was experimenting with is built using a Bassman, so voicing 2 is correct for that from memory with the POD HD500.

2. Topology 2 is selected in the power amp section, yet when my DT amp is showing topology 1 as being active. When I changed this setting on my amp it sounded awful and became a distorted mess. Not sure what to do here, nor what I have done wrong.
3. How does the master volume on the DT relate to the volume on the Helix in this setup?
4. How does this setup differ from the template offered in the Helix for DT25-50 integration via Line 6 link?

Thank you for your time

[Vic20-Ian]

Hi,

 

Just got my Helix to go into my DT25

 

Where can I find the patch mentioned in this thread created by Radatats with topology switching for the amp models? I could not see it in Customtone.

 

I managed to clear settings in DT25 using DT Edit and my USB MIDI but did not have a midi to midi cable so I set bank B to 4 topologies with no pre amp then used a button for Ext amp to the DT25 to switch channel for now.

 

At least I can switch between 2 settings with Helix and a guitar cable without midi once you have set them up in DT Edit. You can use momentary or latched so you could create a quick boost from the amp that way I suppose.

 

Is the Line 6 Link implementation in Helix just missing the ability to send commands? I hope it gets added in Global command as an option to send L6Link commands.

 

Thanks.

 

Vic20-Ian

[gtrman100]

You can control the DT Amp with the helix with just the line 6 link cable attached.

 

Go ahead and re-initialize your DT so that the stock amps are loaded into the preamp section.

 

Connect the Line 6 link cable. When you open up a preset on the Helix, navigate to the output block.

 

You will see a Tab that says DT 25/50. Click on that and you can select all the parameters of the amp with every Preset Individually. You don’t need to connect a midi cable anymore. The helix is totally compatible now.

[Vic20-Ian]

@gtrman100Great, thank you very much.

 

Are there any details about the fix or manual update?

[gtrman100]

1 hour ago, Vic20-Ian said:

@gtrman100Great, thank you very much.

 

Are there any details about the fix or manual update?

What do you mean fix? Control over the DT amps is a new feature with the 2.8 Helix software update. Up until now, you had to change the software in the DT amp, connect a midi cable, and use DT Edit to configure the amp and then create a midi cc in your Helix preset to control the DT. Now, that's all done by the Helix. All you have to do is connect the Line 6 Link and go to the page I mentioned and you can see all the parameter sliders that control the DT. Here's a few tips when you're on that page:

1. load a preset in the Helix
2. navigate to the output block and click
3. locate the DT25/50 page select and click
4. Choose Preset mode to be able to control the amp via presets (global and off are the other options)
5. The top slider controls what preamp will be active- Helix or DT. Select the one you want
6. The next 3 sliders control the Topology, Class A or B, and Pentode/Triode modes
7. The next slider turns the onboard DT reverb on or off, the next control the default amount of the reverb.
8. The last 3 sliders control the "hidden" DT50 only options.
9. To add Snapshot control over a slider, either click on the slider cursor (square box) and press "S" on your keyboard, or right click on the slider, scroll to the bottom and select Snapshot. This way you can control the DT parameters via Snapshots.

Hope this helps.