Anyone done the treble bleed mod on JTV-69

[Dshow]

Hi,

has anyone done the treble bleed mod on your Variax guitar.

I use the Variax with the real pickups all the time and one thing that I don't like is how the volume reacts when rolling down. I have done the treble bleed on my Strat and I guess I'm used to it so much that I can't live without it. So I'm considering doing it on the Variax too.

 

Any experiences?

 

Thanks

[davidb7170]

Yeah.... I wouldn't recommend it, as the electronics in the Variax are not like a regular guitar, the pots are special, the signal routing goes into the switching between mags & models and AD/DA conversions... And of course the DSP chips...

 

If you use the VDI (I do), the models are digital, but the mags are analog and are converted in the guitar analog to digital (AD) to send out the VDI cable to the POD or Helix VDI input which is digital.

 

Conversely, if you use the guitar 1/4" output to an amp, the mags are already analog, but the models are digital and have to be converted to analog (DA). See there's so much going on under the hood, I wouldn't really suggest digging around in there.

 

Now, I have replaced my 69S's single coil mags with a set of noiseless from DiMarzio, but I just removed the old and connected the wires to the same points as the old pickups were. Most regular guitars are simply pickups, switches, volume & tone pots with caps, not much more -- not so with these....

 

Dave

[Dshow]

Yeah.... I wouldn't recommend it, as the electronics in the Variax are not like a regular guitar, the pots are special, the signal routing goes into the switching between mags & models and AD/DA conversions... And of course the DSP chips...

 

If you use the VDI (I do), the models are digital, but the mags are analog and are converted in the guitar analog to digital (AD) to send out the VDI cable to the POD or Helix VDI input which is digital.

 

Conversely, if you use the guitar 1/4" output to an amp, the mags are already analog, but the models are digital and have to be converted to analog (DA). See there's so much going on under the hood, I wouldn't really suggest digging around in there.

 

Now, I have replaced my 69S's single coil mags with a set of noiseless from DiMarzio, but I just removed the old and connected the wires to the same points as the old pickups were. Most regular guitars are simply pickups, switches, volume & tone pots with caps, not much more -- not so with these....

 

Dave

Thanks Dave,

Yeah, I guess the Variax is not the right guitar for changing things.

I got mine used it the model knob was loose and not always working. Fixed it myself by re-soldering - never had any problem with it since then.

I think I have to get used to the way the volume knob works on my JTV-69

[radatats]

I think I have to get used to the way the volume knob works on my JTV-69

 

Nice thing about JTV and POD is you can assign the volume knob to adjust an EQ block in your patch to try to do what you want.  Set it up so as you lower the volume it increases the treble range either of your amp or an EQ block.  Might just give you what you want without any mods!

[Dshow]

Nice thing about JTV and POD is you can assign the volume knob to adjust an EQ block in your patch to try to do what you want.  Set it up so as you lower the volume it increases the treble range either of your amp or an EQ block.  Might just give you what you want without any mods!

This is a good idea radatats - thanks.

I use my JTV mostly with magnetic pickups with no modeling and just normal guitar cable (and no battery). So I guess this won't work then.

[jandrio]

i think the vol knob can control pod parameters even if the jtv is using the mags....
no battery needed, vdi is the key.

[Dshow]

i think the vol knob can control pod parameters even if the jtv is using the mags....

no battery needed, vdi is the key.

Yeah but with VDI the mags sound something different :-)

[jandrio]

then control pod parameters thru vdi, feed mags sound thru 1/4" normal guitar cable ;)

[CipherHost]

then control pod parameters thru vdi, feed mags sound thru 1/4" normal guitar cable ;)

 

Although I can not find his post, I seem to remember psarkissian, a Line 6 employee, previously warned JTV users that using VDI and 1/4 inch outputs at the same time would overload the JTV's circuitry which would result in damage to the JTV. I got the impression from his post that is was not a matter of if damage would occur, but would only be a matter of time before it would occur.

 

I will also say that other forum members dissented from psarkissian's assessment. I do not know if they have been using both outputs simultaneously for any length of time or not. I can only say that it was only after receiving my third Line 6 modelling guitar that I found one, IMHO, worth keeping. I don't want to risk possible damage to it by ignoring psarkissian's post. 

 

I wish we could use both outputs at the same time. Fortunately, as a result of a previous update, it is possible to direct the mags and a model into different paths using the VDI connection into a POD. 

 

Edit: I do not know if selecting guitar for your POD input (as opposed to Variax or Variax Mags) negates psarkissian's overload warning. Perhaps this is what you (jandrio) meant in your post. If psarkissian would be so kind as to post a comment on this subject, it would be appreciated, i.e., Will the JTV see a load (causing an overload while the 1/4 inch out is also loaded) on the VDI connection (mags or modles) if it is only being used as a controller?

Edited December 5, 2015 by CipherHost

[psarkissian]

I've serviced literally hundreds of JTV's (my dissenters haven't), I've seen all the ways

the circuit boards fail, and seen too many of them. It's not pretty.

 

The boards are not designed to do a dual output split. Might get away with it for a time,

but parts of the circuitry meant to regulate current can get stressed and fail over prolonged

use in that way.

 

Best use it according to the user manual and Knowledge Base. Better safe than sorry.

[Dshow]

I've serviced literally hundreds of JTV's (my dissenters haven't), I've seen all the ways

the circuit boards fail, and seen too many of them. It's not pretty.

 

The boards are not designed to do a dual output split. Might get away with it for a time,

but parts of the circuitry meant to regulate current can get stressed and fail over prolonged

use in that way.

 

Best use it according to the user manual and Knowledge Base. Better safe than sorry.

Thanks for the reply.

I'll better let it as it is then :-)

[jandrio]

...Best use it according to the user manual and Knowledge Base...

 

pls advise us where exactly the user manual suggests avoiding simultaneous use of vdi+1/4" jacks

[jandrio]

..Best use it according to the user manual and Knowledge Base. Better safe than sorry.

 

 

pls advise us where exactly the user manual suggests avoiding simultaneous use of vdi+1/4" jacks

 

psarkissian, i'm still missing ur answer :)

[psarkissian]

I far as know, the manual doesn't suggest doing it either. But as I mentioned

before, it pulls current in a way that it's not design for, and that will put stress

on some of the circuitry.

 

There is also the problem using the Alt Tune function with this kind of hook up.

The magnetics don't go thru the same pitch shift function that the piezo signals

do. The magnetics will be in tune, and the piezo signal would be pitch shifted.

[snhirsch]

I'm sorry, but color me sceptical of that claim.  Connecting the analog output of the guitar to a typical load is not going to amount to squat in terms of additional current being pulled through anything. 

[radatats]

Yeah but with VDI the mags sound something different :-)

 

Not sure the difference is enough to really notice.  I use mags with VDI on my 69 and it sounds virtually the same as mags on my regular single coil guitar.  If you never use the capabilities, what's the point of even having a JTV?

[Dshow]

Not sure the difference is enough to really notice.  I use mags with VDI on my 69 and it sounds virtually the same as mags on my regular single coil guitar.  If you never use the capabilities, what's the point of even having a JTV?

Yeah I'm a little old fashioned when it comes to guitars ;-)

The point is that I like the guitar itself. I like the neck and it plays very well. In addition I have some furhter sound options for recording. At the time I use the modelling mainly to practice acoustic since I can't play loud very often. But I do not play live or in a regular band at the moment so it is just for fun. But I see the advantages when playing in a cover band for example. So the modelling for me is nice to have but could live without. Also it is my second guitar - my main guitar is a self assembled strat which I play most of the time.

[Dshow]

I far as know, the manual doesn't suggest doing it either. But as I mentioned

before, it pulls current in a way that it's not design for, and that will put stress

on some of the circuitry.

 

There is also the problem using the Alt Tune function with this kind of hook up.

The magnetics don't go thru the same pitch shift function that the piezo signals

do. The magnetics will be in tune, and the piezo signal would be pitch shifted.

Thanks for pointing this out. Until now I always used my Variax with the VDI into the HD500 just to power it up and for the sound I used the Jack cable. So if this is not a good Idea I might start to use the battery. Never had any problems until now though - luckily

[cruisinon2]

Thanks for pointing this out. Until now I always used my Variax with the VDI into the HD500 just to power it up and for the sound I used the Jack cable.

Why? Unless you're running to two different amps, it's redundant to have the signal going into the 500 twice.

 

Just curious...

[Dshow]

Why? Unless you're running to two different amps, it's redundant to have the signal going into the 500 twice.

 

Just curious...

 

Because I feel that the Variax sounds something different when using the VDI Cable - kind of more digital and I don't like that. I play through headphones almost all the time, I'm sure it doesn't matter when playing through a speaker.

 

But possibly it's just me :-)

[silverhead]

There is at least one tonal difference between the VDI and analog connection from the JTV into a POD HD device. It has to do with the Input-Z parameter that exists only on the analog input and not the VDI input.

[psarkissian]

snhirsch,... good to be skeptical, it's even better to have the experience

that I have with this product and it's circuitry. Keep up the good work.

 

silverhead has a good point, something to keep in mind. The adjustable

input impedance is on the 1/4-inch guitar input and not doesn't affect VDI.

Good thing to remember.

[snhirsch]

I had posted a snappy comeback, but then realized that there is no point.  Nevermind.  You can claim whatever you'd like.

[psarkissian]

Keep up the good work. This is the place to exchange info.

Rock-n-roll.

[line-6-user]

Can this "double" connection then be the problem of my JTV-69 freeze the HD500 if switching the HD500 while the JTV-69 VDI cable is already plugged in to it?

 

The only way I can make the two work without issues is if:

 

1) first switch the HD500 and after a few second connect the JTV-69

2) switch the HD500 while the JTV-69 is connected to it with the VDI cable and a 1/4" jack (one end CONNECTED, ONLY TO THE JTV-69).

 

I had this issue after a firmware upgrade. It is likely that I had both the VDI and the 1/4" cables connected at the same time to the HD500. This is easily done as I run into upgrade errors when having only the VDI cable connected to the HD500... I must have connected also the 1/4" to both the JTV and the POD.

[stevekc]

There is 7VDC voltage on the VDI Ethercon connector.

And the "Ring" contact on the 1/4" TRS jack can be used as a remote DC Power input for powering the Variax. 

Its conceivably possible that damage / strain on the Variax internal electronics may occur if you connect  a standard mono 1/4" TS Guitar cable while also using the VDI cable connection. There are internal voltage steering diodes to prevent shorting these two  power entry points   - but Line-6 has seen these fail, and the result is a smoked / burnt VARIAX DSP board   

If you want to be safe while using the VDi cable, always use a 1/4" TRS cable with "open" Ring contact to connect to the Variax 1/4" TRS jack. 

But know the Downfall of using a stock 1/4" TRS cable is that you typically are connecting to a battery powered floor stomp FX, but the floor FX will not "turn on" unless the TRS "Ring" contact is grounded. 

So build a custom 1/4" Guitar cable with an open "Ring" connection on the TRS (Variax) side, and a normal TS plug on the Amp / FX side.     

[CipherHost]

So build a custom 1/4" Guitar cable with an open "Ring" connection on the TRS (Variax) side, and a normal TS plug on the Amp / FX side.     

 

Do you mean something like this?

 

 

 

Or do you leave off the ring connected wire?

[stevekc]

 

 

Do you mean something like this?

 

 

Almost 

 

but you must leave the Variax TRS "RING" connection as "open / no connection"  

 

 

TRS  | TS

--------------

Tip = Tip

Ring  = open 

Sleeve = Sleeve

[jandrio]

so with this custom cable can we safely use SIMULTANEOUSLY BOTH vdi+1/4" jacks ?

[CipherHost]

Perhaps not. The warning is overloading the circuitry with too much current draw, regardless of input voltages.

[psarkissian]

And it would sound really bad when the pick-ups are in standard tuning,

while your Modeling is in Alt Tune, since the pick-ups don't go thru the

same processing.

[CipherHost]

Et hoc manifestum est

 

Cela est évident

 

Esto es obvio

 

这是显而易è§çš„

 

وهذا واضح

 

×–×” מובן מ×ליו

[psarkissian]

:)

[cruisinon2]

 

Et hoc manifestum est

 

Cela est évident

 

Esto es obvio

 

这是显而易è§çš„

 

وهذا واضح

 

×–×” מובן מ×ליו

No $#!*....;)