Please ensure Javascript is enabled for purposes of website accessibility Jump to content

How are the compressors?


hideout
 Share

Recommended Posts

So, one of the main things that led me to get rid of my PodXT Live was that, its compressors really really sucked.  By the time you finally got the sustain right, the attack was sooo horrible that it was completely unusable. All I got was a wretched "thunk" sound on the attack - all bass and no highs. I've used guitar compressors for a long time and never had any of them do that except for some of the early Boss compressors.  I hope that some of you can assure me to some degree that they, Line 6, have actually learned about how guitar compressors are supposed to sound like. This is my only trepidation about having ordered another Line 6 product.

 

I also noticed that there's really only one guitar compressor being modeled.  The MXR Dynacomp. They're workable but I do hope they'll give us more choices later on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The compressors in Helix work, and work well. There's the one you mentioned, the MXR Dyna Comp (Red Squeeze in Helix), the Teletronix LA2A (LA Studio Comp) and the Deluxe Comp (Line 6 Original).

 

They all have plenty of parameters to adjust to get what you want, except for the Red Squeeze, but that only has a couple of controls to begin with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The compressors in Helix work, and work well. There's the one you mentioned, the MXR Dyna Comp (Red Squeeze in Helix), the Teletronix LA2A (LA Studio Comp) and the Deluxe Comp (Line 6 Original).

 

They all have plenty of parameters to adjust to get what you want, except for the Red Squeeze, but that only has a couple of controls to begin with.

 

Therein lies the rub. The LA2A is a fine studio compressor but it doesn't work very well as a guitar compressor.  Never has, never will because it doesn't have the right kind of squish that guitar compressors are supposed to have..  I really really hope that Line 6 has not taken the same approach with all of their compressors as they have in the past. That compressors should be "invisible".  While this attribute is desirable for  studio compressors, it is absolutely wrong for guitar compressors.  Through the years, Boss, Digitech, Zoom, Vox and Yamaha's  guitar compressor simulations have been far superior to that of Line 6's.  I hope this has changed with the Helix and I hope to see models of the vaunted Ross, DOD Milkbox  and Orange Squeezer compressors.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally like the Deluxe Comp out of the three, with the LA2A coming in next. The Deluxe Comp seems to add a subtle tube-y warmth, so it's not completely invisible. The LA2A doesn't color the tone, at least to my ears.

 

The Red Squeeze is useful for higher gain tones, maybe even lead tones, that cleans up an unfocused low end and give some extra sustain. So this one isn't invisible either.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally like the Deluxe Comp out of the three, with the LA2A coming in next. The Deluxe Comp seems to add a subtle tube-y warmth, so it's not completely invisible. The LA2A doesn't color the tone, at least to my ears.

 

The Red Squeeze is useful for higher gain tones, maybe even lead tones, that cleans up an unfocused low end and give some extra sustain. So this one isn't invisible either.

 

By "invisible", again, I speak of the attack and not the overall sonic character.  Here's hoping that the Red Squeeze does it for me and that it's not a repeat of the old Pod compressor sim.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also like a little bit of squish in my compressor for most guitar sounds. I like having a transparent one available for acoustic guitar and some presets but usually I prefer a little bit of squish in both the feel and the sound, especially when it is accompanied by improved sustain.

Agreed! So, you have no issue with this on your Helix?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The podxtlive seemed to have a lot of compression generally anyway. It always had that "thunk" sound to me....I've always been a digitech guy first and boss guy second. I would use a guitar modeler to pare down my rig and would play both of those entities live and found usable tones in each (gnx3000, rp500, gt10,gt100) including their compression models. The helix is different in that the amp models have programmable sag etc ('squish' -if you use an amp model). In some cases it eliminates the need for a comp block altogether. The LA comp I found to be strange add unless you want it for vocals. The deluxe comp is sensitive and has a high resolution to dial in what you need. The red is the bull in the china shop you expect to be. I use the helix for both bass and guitar gigs and compression is more important on the bass to me and it works better and cleaner than anything I've used previously...

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed! So, you have no issue with this on your Helix?

 

The Red Squeeze kind of gets it for me but if I had my way there would be yet another choice that had all the soul sucking,  tone destroying,  sustain of some of the old Boss and other less "transparent" offerings. Often that is just the tone I am gong for; just a personal preference thing for me. I like having a note that goes on forever until I mute it for legato phrases and I don't want it to sound brittle.  I have always liked that warm almost slightly muted sound I think you are referring to. If you put a tone control on it for restoring some of the highs that can get removed with these kind of compressor-sustainors, all the better. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Red Squeeze kind of gets it for me but if I had my way there would be yet another choice that had all the soul sucking,  tone destroying,  sustain of some of the old Boss and other less "transparent" offerings. Often that is just the tone I am gong for; just a personal preference thing for me. I like having a note that goes on until I mute it for legato phrases and I don't want it to sound brittle.  I have always liked that warm almost slightly muted sound I think you are referring to. If you put a tone control on it for restoring some of the highs that can get removed with these kind of compressor-sustainors, all the better. 

I wouldn't go as far as "soul sucking" myself (lol),but definitely a reedy picked sound. As in, it sounds like you're using a saxophone reed as a pick almost. The sound has a very accentuated and slow pick attack.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't go as far as "soul sucking" myself (lol),but definitely a reedy picked sound. As in, it sounds like you're using a saxophone reed as a pick almost. The sound has a very accentuated and slow pick attack.

 

LOL, yes "soul sucking" was perhaps a bit of hyperbole to acknowledge the fact that this kind of compression can suck some tone and attack but I like that sound nevertheless. I am glad you brought this topic up. Despite the fact that I like the compressors on the Helix I would love to see one of these "muddier" compressors with a ton of sustain on tap added. Maybe I just need to play with the ones that are already there a bit more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An orange squeezer is pretty much the definition of 'splat' when it comes to compressors. I'd also love to see a better typical 'guitar' non-transparent compressor added to the collection. My vote goes in for orange squeezer clone.

 

That being said, I still use transparent ones for acoustic guitars and giving a little 'transparent' boost into the front of a distorted amp model for less 'gainy' distortion, while maintaining saturation at that lower gain setting. Kind of like the best of distorted sustain without the over-the-top 'can of bees' that high gain can produce.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

An orange squeezer is pretty much the definition of 'splat' when it comes to compressors. I'd also love to see a better typical 'guitar' non-transparent compressor added to the collection. My vote goes in for orange squeezer clone.

 

That being said, I still use transparent ones for acoustic guitars and giving a little 'transparent' boost into the front of a distorted amp model for less 'gainy' distortion, while maintaining saturation at that lower gain setting. Kind of like the best of distorted sustain without the over-the-top 'can of bees' that high gain can produce.

I hardly ever have any use for the 'can of bees' sound either. I just want a greasy feeling amp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish the Line 6 team appreciated more of the EHX line on the Helix. Hands down, in my opinion, the Electro-Harmonix Nano Soul Preacher is my favourite compressor pedal. With the Attack at Med, the Volume at 10, and the Sustain at two, I can use it equally to give both guitar and bass "life". None of the parameters of the three compressors have allowed me to match my "cheap" compressor pedal. Maybe its the fact none of the compressors feature a sustain. Or is that the "release" parameter of the Deluxe Comp? Also, the Small Stone Phaser has no match on the Helix. Even with all the gawldang parameters of the Deluxe Phaser. The Nano Pog.....sigh. I hope Polyphonic Pitch is coming soon. Ideascale have yet to approve my account, I think? Cool pedal otherwise.

 

P.S. why are there artifacts of distortion when i layer through a third party looper rather than the looper which is more simplified than I need which is in the Helix. I make sure its not clipping and all that. After a few layers there's a fizzy distortion on top..

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the Helix compressors. The LA Comp is great at the end of the signal chain to just glue everything together. It adds a little to the overall tone that's hard to describe. I use Deluxe Comp for the beginning of the signal chain, its the first block the guitar sees. It takes some experimenting to get the effect you want. Use Attack to control pick noise. Use release to control how responsive the compressor is to your playing.

 

Regarding the looper fizz after a few layers, that could still be distortion. You may have no distortion on the first layer, but each layer takes up more headroom. Its the same problem with multiple tracks into a mix buss. Even though none of the tracks may be clipping, as they all add up into the mix buss, it may clip. Try bringing the input level down a bit more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see how you'd have a problem replicating that type of compression on the helix.

 

I guess my trepidation comes from my horrible experience with the XT Live which, admittedly, was a long time ago but it definitely left a bad taste in my mouth regarding Line 6's Pre-Yamaha approach to compressors. It seemed that they didn't understand how they worked at all - not by a long shot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess my trepidation comes from my horrible experience with the XT Live which, admittedly, was a long time ago but it definitely left a bad taste in my mouth regarding Line 6's Pre-Yamaha approach to compressors. It seemed that they didn't understand how they worked at all - not by a long shot.

 

The difference between XT Live and HD (I had both) imho was like the difference between a Fiat and a Mercedes.

 

The difference between an XT Live and a Helix is more like the difference between a creaky bicycle and a Ferrari.

 

Seriously, the XT/X3 series of modelers was never really any good at "just FX". everything was a compromise up to that point. HD changed all that, where the FX (and imho the modeling) was top shelf. For Helix, they had to make another shelf above that top shelf.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The difference between XT Live and HD (I had both) imho was like the difference between a Fiat and a Mercedes.

 

The difference between an XT Live and a Helix is more like the difference between a creaky bicycle and a Ferrari.

 

Seriously, the XT/X3 series of modelers was never really any good at "just FX". everything was a compromise up to that point. HD changed all that, where the FX (and imho the modeling) was top shelf. For Helix, they had to make another shelf above that top shelf.

 

Thanks for allaying my concerns about my recent leap of faith in buying the Helix.

Now, all it has to do is get here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

Hi,

Anybody have any hints on how to set up the Deluxe Comp to approximate a BOSS CS-3 or Mad Professor Forest Green Sustain/Compression knob?

 

Level is easy...

 

Attack on the CS-3?  Is that equivalent to the Attack knob on the Deluxe Comp, or does it also change some other parameters, too? (like Knee, etc.)

I'm assuming I'd have to add an EQ after it to approximate the Tone knob on each pedal.

 

What does the Sustain / Compression Switch technically do on the Forest Green?

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally like the Deluxe Comp out of the three, with the LA2A coming in next. The Deluxe Comp seems to add a subtle tube-y warmth, so it's not completely invisible. The LA2A doesn't color the tone, at least to my ears.

 

 

Agree- I use the Deluxe more than any other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Helix could use another compressor and another Reverb, probably at minimum.  Most of the other effects are covered well, and some might argue that there are lots of reverbs which is true, cept I don't really like most of them.  I find myself going for the LA2A myself, especially on acoustic work(along with the Studio Tube Pre), but also on Electric.  That's a style and tone preference thing.  The deluxe comp is a bit more squash, a bit less transparent, and the Red Sqeeze is pretty much what it's name says... even more squished.  You can get what you are after usually, but it might be nice to have 1 or 2 more options in the future.  Fingers crossed.

 

Ultimately, I think you are going to be happy.  This is one hell of a mighty fine toy to play with!  Just don't dwell too long on the presets which many of us feel leave a lot to be desired.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel compelled to update my opinion on the LA2A. I gave it another chance and have grown to really like it especially at extreme settings. It is indeed a wholly different experience than the one I had with the Pods.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I dislike all old style classic compressors, too overt for me. I do not use them a lot in the Helix but either the LA or Deluxe most likely further down the chain, Compression has limited uses, usually as a peak limiting device or on cleaner acoustic tones, high gain already creates compression. Adding a compressor to a high gain amp or pedal is tremendous overkill. Compression kills the dynamic range of the guitar, just what it does. Exactly why the better units have a blend control to bring in the dry mix. 

Nothing sounds as good as my Wampler compressor did or the Keeley compressors, the Pro model Keeley is pretty wicked. 

As for all the EHX, Boss, Ross, MXR and what not you can have 'em. Most use the Dyna Comp circuit including the Wampler but that pedal is very transparent or you can adjust it to be abrupt if you like. I would not buy, or "not" buy the Helix for effect reasons.

Pedals are always going to be better, maybe not as convenient or easy to haul and setup. But tone wise, feel, range of dynamics and so on, I'll take pedals. If you think anything in the Helix HX delay models gets anywhere near the quality of a Strymon or Eventide then you probably love Boss and EHX stuff anyway.

I hope the Helix does not turn into just another POD version but it is well on its way, most of the pitch, octave and whammy stuff is as bad as the old glitch out monophonic pedals they copied. So many pedals now have polyphonic tracking on std 1/4 cable tech, tuners, octave pedals, detune pedals and so on. A $145 Digitech Ricochet kills anything in the Helix. Far as I am concerned trash the front end effort to copy and mimic pedals, spend the time on amps and cab improvements, and not necessarily more but better quality, upgrade the delays, reverbs and if you can't upgrade the modulation I am just glad to farm out to better pedals than force myself to have to use what it is the unit. Helix is a great unit but after the newness wears off you realize it is not perfect and if you are tone freak never satisfied for long with the same thing, the beauty of pedals is the change out to something different. 

The Helix is amp modeling and cab IRs, effects are just icing on the cake but at times not a very good icing. If your're into that whole POD or M thing of the effects in those then buy one, if you ruin the Helix by making it just another POD so many higher end users will walk away from Line6 like I did for years. Seems I am on the line of doing that again as I hate the whole POD thing, been there, done that, daddy moved on. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I dislike all old style classic compressors, too overt for me. I do not use them a lot in the Helix but either the LA or Deluxe most likely further down the chain, Compression has limited uses, usually as a peak limiting device or on cleaner acoustic tones, high gain already creates compression. Adding a compressor to a high gain amp or pedal is tremendous overkill. Compression kills the dynamic range of the guitar, just what it does. Exactly why the better units have a blend control to bring in the dry mix.

Nothing sounds as good as my Wampler compressor did or the Keeley compressors, the Pro model Keeley is pretty wicked.

As for all the EHX, Boss, Ross, MXR and what not you can have 'em. Most use the Dyna Comp circuit including the Wampler but that pedal is very transparent or you can adjust it to be abrupt if you like. I would not buy, or "not" buy the Helix for effect reasons.

Pedals are always going to be better, maybe not as convenient or easy to haul and setup. But tone wise, feel, range of dynamics and so on, I'll take pedals. If you think anything in the Helix HX delay models gets anywhere near the quality of a Strymon or Eventide then you probably love Boss and EHX stuff anyway.

I hope the Helix does not turn into just another POD version but it is well on its way, most of the pitch, octave and whammy stuff is as bad as the old glitch out monophonic pedals they copied. So many pedals now have polyphonic tracking on std 1/4 cable tech, tuners, octave pedals, detune pedals and so on. A $145 Digitech Ricochet kills anything in the Helix. Far as I am concerned trash the front end effort to copy and mimic pedals, spend the time on amps and cab improvements, and not necessarily more but better quality, upgrade the delays, reverbs and if you can't upgrade the modulation I am just glad to farm out to better pedals than force myself to have to use what it is the unit. Helix is a great unit but after the newness wears off you realize it is not perfect and if you are tone freak never satisfied for long with the same thing, the beauty of pedals is the change out to something different.

The Helix is amp modeling and cab IRs, effects are just icing on the cake but at times not a very good icing. If your're into that whole POD or M thing of the effects in those then buy one, if you ruin the Helix by making it just another POD so many higher end users will walk away from Line6 like I did for years. Seems I am on the line of doing that again as I hate the whole POD thing, been there, done that, daddy moved on.

I agree with you regarding your points about modeling cutting edge pedals including ones with polyphonic tracking (if it is possible on the Helix) and also innovating new sounds and new pedals. You seem to think bringing in the new necessitates or justifies the exclusion of great classic pedals and amps. Why? Can't we have both, new & old? You have been repeating this theme over and over in posts in a variety of topics. However, I think there are lots of great vintage pedals and sounds as well. Just because there is an interesting new recipe available does not mean I want to stop eating a great T-Bone or Filet Mignon (or even a great hamburger), it just means I also want to try the new recipe. Some sounds are timeless and worthy of inclusion in the Helix, despite what era they come from.

 

You may or may not be correct when you say that the digital emulations are not as good as some (many?) of their single pedal counterparts that have the advantage of having all of their circuitry dedicated to a single effect. And if you need to have that exact tone, maybe the emulation is not for you. Overall, I think the effects in the Helix are quite good. For some effects, people already have a hard time differentiating digital and analog when given blind tests. Even if the emulation is not perfect I will happily take a good emulation over having to lug a board full of noisy and failure prone pedals around, not to speak of the incredible expense of purchasing premium pedals, that is why many people have moved to digital boards, their flexibility, choice, and integration. I also think if you are going to be an evangelist for innovation as you clearly are, you need to embrace the things that can be created in the digital realm for a much lower cost. I would and did buy the Helix for its amp models and its effects (although I think more should be added). In no way do I view them as "icing on the cake". They are a critical part of my signal chain and I think many of them sound phenomenal. Adding higher quality HX effects, even when they are emulations of "vintage" effects is not just making another POD. It is the next step in making a more nuanced and authentic or just better sounding model with more horsepower and improved programming.

 

Lastly, I would be the first to agree that there are many great new (and old) boutique pedals on the market and these should be a priority for Line6 rather than just copying the cheapest mass market ones, particularly old pedals that now have more modern and better functioning counter-parts (and critically, sound as good or better than the original). I would also say though that "yes", even Boss and EHX made a lot of great pedals along the way. Some of them are eminently worthy of replication. Ultimately I am just trying to say your efforts to evangelize cutting edge approaches to new and best of breed amps and effects and the creation of completely new sounds and amps as well, is genuinely appreciated and an important voice on the forum but probably does not bear repetition in every topic. It also does not mean throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There are lots of existing effects that were cutting edge when they were created and still are in many ways. The "improved" old can coexist with the new and I hope it does because that is the kind of MFX I am most interested in owning. The Helix has the potential to cater to a wide variety of users.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The original Keeley 2 knob compressor was and still is the best I've ever used. And I'll also add while Helix does do high gains well and they generate their own sustainable tones, some of us Helix owners use the other less gain patches too, and need compression. In other words and as always, YMMV and that's okay too! ; ) As far as the LA2A is concerned, I'm thinking that a lot of us (me included) just don't know how to use it properly. Once again pure speculation 😉

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...