I know a bunch of us want the editor, but I'm anticipating new firmware!!!

[Digital_Igloo]

Sometimes I look through the ideascale entries for Helix and there's a lot that are just ridiculous.

 

I greatly prefer the ridiculous entries. They sometimes inspire something else. It's more "okay, what's the underlying problem we need to solve?" than "okay, let's just do this the way they ask."

 

I probably shouldn't admit this, but there's literally ONE realistic IdeaScale > Helix submission (outside of specific amp/FX model requests) that we hadn't already discussed at one point. Out of thousands. IdeaScale isn't about collecting ideas as much as it is validating and prioritizing existing ideas. Its greatest strength is when someone at Line 6 says "we should do this" and I can come back and say "maybe, but since literally not a single person's asked for it, it'll probably have to be way down the list." You guys are basically my ammo in a battle I fight for you.

 

But to be fair, no one asked for cap-sense switches, four effects loops, or a hundred other Helix features, so IdeaScale doesn't have a monopoly on our development roadmap. There are a handful of left-field "pet features" I've been fighting tooth and nail to get in (that'll hopefully illicit a "whoa"), but it's all about balance.

 

It seems to me they've release the Helix a little too early but I think they received pressure from high levels, from marketing managers, because of the market (maybe what other competitors were developing at that moment, Fractal AX8, FX8, for example).

 

We didn't release Helix too early. We had a very specific list of features that needed to be ready for 1.0, and in the end, we got a lot more on the list than originally scheduled.* For every perceived missing top-level feature in Helix, we can list five that no other competitor has. So one could just as easily say their boxes have five missing features, and they were incomplete at release.

 

But more importantly, our designers paid very little attention to what the other guy was doing. In fact, we actively eschewed comparison, as we wanted Helix to exist on its own. As such, it's a very unique box that has thus far, garnered a metric ton of attention.

 

* Customizable scribble strips, customizable switch LED colors, Pedal Edit mode, Preset Up/Down switches, 10-switch mode, Re-amping, Preset Numbering, MIDI PC Tx/Rx bypass, MIDI over USB, Touch Tap shortcut, Touch-hold to assign, Press to assign controller, Clear/Clear All Controllers, Copy/Paste blocks, and others were all on the chopping block at one time.

[PeterHamm]

But to be fair, no one asked for cap-sense switches, four effects loops, or a hundred other Helix features, so IdeaScale doesn't have a monopoly on our development roadmap. There are a handful of left-field "pet features" I've been fighting tooth and nail to get in (that'll hopefully illicit a "whoa"), but it's all about balance.

 

Kinda like Henry Ford's quip that if he gave the people what they asked for, he would have bred faster stronger horses.

[Guitarzan]

I greatly prefer the ridiculous entries. They sometimes inspire something else. It's more "okay, what's the underlying problem we need to solve?" than "okay, let's just do this the way they ask."

 

 

That's great to hear, because it further cements my observation you guys have a really strong product team. No wonder you don't bother consolidating the requests. And once again, thanks for your positive, "no ego" approach. Even read this one thread tries my patience, and I don't even work at Line 6.

[spikey]

What?

 

A contract between who and whom? A contract requires at least two parties to sign to be legal. Who signed what? L6 and the General Public?

 

So no. No such contract existed, and there are no legal ramifications for late delivery of a product, unless some contract was signed between the supplier and the customer, and either fines were included, or financial loss resulted.

 

Having said that, it's often bad for business to not manage customer expectations well, but there are (usually) no legal implications.

 

 

Again, without a contract, there is no 'contractual release date'. Just a proposed release date, that they may or may not hit.

 

 

They probably have no obligations, just desires.

Dude...  There is "always" a contract. And they could care less about what you and I think in this regard... Esp. on dated "end of life" products who's sales records have slipped drastically since its initial release. This is purely business practice and has nothing to do with how butt-hurt we "the customer" become when our pre-amp is no longer supported or sold. You think people will stop buying Line-6 gear just because your upset about their future HD support or Im mad because they don't support the Vetta amp? I really don't know where you got your info, but there is always a contract between the makers and their entities , and sellers (retailers/music stores). Always. Period. These companies sign agreements between one another as to when something will be released and on what date it will ship, what parts will be available during ramp up on the production line, contracts with the companies making said parts, marketing of said product, retailer shelf space, etc etc etc. There are agreements via contracts signed on how much it will cost each vendor per item, per bulk, markup of said item between vendors, etc. There are contracts on the box manufacturer the product ships in, the label maker, the art department, hell theres even a contract with the taco truck driver in their parking lot at lunch time! The vendor has signed agreements made with retailers, marketers, and even the shipper to deliver said product on time. So who ever convinced you that things just happen will-nilly like magic and without signed agreement, are very mistaken.

[robbieb61]

I heard on the street (the actual road out in front of my house) that the next update is going to be all 3 channels of the Bogner Ecstasy Amp. 

​And the "word on the street" is that it took this long because THIS is going to be the model that sounds perfectly and amazingly exactly like the Bogner Ecstasy.

​That is what I'm hearing from various voices in my own head as I went down the street.  :)

[spikey]

 

 

 

We didn't release Helix too early. We had a very specific list of features that needed to be ready for 1.0, and in the end, we got a lot more on the list than originally scheduled.* For every perceived missing top-level feature in Helix, we can list five that no other competitor has. So one could just as easily say their boxes have five missing features, and they were incomplete at release.

 

 

You could say that "their" boxes are missing features, but Im glad you didn't. Why? There are many things the Helix has that are great, and many it doesn't compared to the Axe FX II XL, or the KPA. Ive owned both so this is not speculation. I hope that one day Helix will have calibrated foot controller menus with percentages on when it will engage, and sloped vector settings for how the controller responds from heel down to toe down, heel off wah and effects settings with fast, medium, or slow speeds selectable from the menu, Workbench support, an editor worth its salt, multiple cab combining support, thumb-drive memory backup, and the list go's on and on... Of course one boxes features is another's poison... So as always YMMV.  As far as releasing it too early, you met your obligations and its a very nice sounding unit with lots of promise. I bought one because of this. But, Right now it would make better argument to brag about what Helix will become one day, rather than what the competition doesn't currently have on the newly released Helix, because I believe there are things it needs that the others already have. Thanks...

[BigRalphN]

People comparing Kemper to Helix or AXFX are really comparing apples to oranges though I understand because of the price points. I am Helix all the way (despite the fact mine has to go in as I was one with mic input issues) but all of them have pluses and minuses My issues with Line 6 and why I almost went with Kemper, are reliability issues. Every single Line 6 product I have owned has broke within the first year and a couple later on. Yet I keep buying them because I hope they fix QC sometime. And now the Helix broke. A list of some of my line 6 products. Toneport for recording (bad out of the box with phase issues on the inputs) , Bogner Spider Valve (amp stage went out), HD Series (expression pedal quit working), X3 live (every footswitch needed replaced over time) . The X3 is still going after switch replacement as a friends kid has it. I will stop there. And I am not rough on things. In fact I am anal about keeping stuff up. So more than future development I think they need to continue to work on QC and improve component quality so that down the road quality is top notch. You can never buy for what features you hope will be added in firmware updates. That will disappoint you every time (just ask Apple and Microsoft users).

[HonestOpinion]

People comparing Kemper to Helix or AXFX are really comparing apples to oranges though I understand because of the price points. I am Helix all the way (despite the fact mine has to go in as I was one with mic input issues) but all of them have pluses and minuses My issues with Line 6 and why I almost went with Kemper, are reliability issues. Every single Line 6 product I have owned has broke within the first year and a couple later on. Yet I keep buying them because I hope they fix QC sometime. And now the Helix broke. A list of some of my line 6 products. Toneport for recording (bad out of the box with phase issues on the inputs) , Bogner Spider Valve (amp stage went out), HD Series (expression pedal quit working), X3 live (every footswitch needed replaced over time) . The X3 is still going after switch replacement as a friends kid has it. I will stop there. And I am not rough on things. In fact I am anal about keeping stuff up. So more than future development I think they need to continue to work on QC and improve component quality so that down the road quality is top notch. You can never buy for what features you hope will be added in firmware updates. That will disappoint you every time (just ask Apple and Microsoft users).

Completely agree although I truly hope quality control and future enhancement/development are not entirely mutually exclusive; I am sure compromises between the two are required! My Stagescape M20d immediately developed problems with one of the auto sensing XLR connections causing it to drop out randomly, all my Stagescape speakers had problems with rattling fans (they fixed this issue in later production runs), and I am on my second Helix as the first had footswitch problems. All of the equipment problems I experienced have also been reported by multiple other forum members. I know it is only anecdotal but my experience has led me believe that Line6 needs to do a better job on their production line and with QC. They might want to either consider reevaluating who does their manufacturing and/or put a more rigorous QC process in place. My problems have all occurred not on cheap low end equipment but their high-end expensive, supposedly "pro" stuff. People don't write in to say "my equipment is working correctly", we tend to hear more about the equipment that has issues on the boards. I know a certain percentage of equipment from any manufacturer will have issues, and I am willing to concede that it could just be my own bad luck but between what I see on the message boards and my own experience I believe L6 could improve on dependability and QC.

 

They have at least been very good about stepping up to offer fixes which is enough to keep me loyal but I wish they would address the dependability issues once and for all, especially on their top shelf stuff. I hate even having to post anything like this because I believe the Helix is a remarkable piece of equipment and I want as many people as possible to purchase it and encourage its ongoing development. I just think it is worth expending a little extra time and expense to make sure that the parts (most of which are top quality on the Helix) that go out the door hold up in the real world for years and that as few as possible of the inevitable bad ones that pop up on any and every production line ever make it to consumers.

[ozbadman]

I won't bother responding to the other stuff, but:

 

The vendor has signed agreements made with retailers, marketers, and even the shipper to deliver said product on time.

Extremely unlikely. Yes, they've signed contracts about prices, etc., but usually not with specific delivery schedules, or related penalties.

 

Evidence: the constant changing of delivery dates from retailers. You really think Line 6 is paying a penalty to retailers for that?

[Paolo_Maina]

Well, you can run dual cabs in the way of loading a stereo IR in the AX8, but 1) you have to either find a stereo IR you like or create your own, and 2) you have to actually load it into the AX8. After you do that, the IR is what it is. You can't change mics and other parameters without loading another IR.

 

I had the AX8 briefly, and it's a nice little box. There were some things I really liked, but the main thing for me is that I just felt that without having the editor open, editing the unit itself is a very frustrating experience, at least for me. I really need the ability to change things on the fly, and I know I'm not going have access to a laptop in most situations. So in that sense, the Helix has a huge advantage for me. I've said if a number of times, but one of the main reasons I have been a repeat Line 6 customer (and just to be clear, even though I have gotten a few beta units from Line 6, I've bought the vast majority of stuff I own from them) is that they seem to be one of the few companies building multi-fx devices that take the ergonomic side of things seriously. The fact is that most guitarists don't care what a box is capable of if they can't figure out how to do it.

Riflect.

They cannot give to AX8 the same features of Axe Fx otherwise people don't buy Axe Fx anymore.

Axe fx is the flagship product.

It's simply marketing.

 

Helix is the flagship product of Line6 instead

[Paolo_Maina]

I greatly prefer the ridiculous entries. They sometimes inspire something else. It's more "okay, what's the underlying problem we need to solve?" than "okay, let's just do this the way they ask."

 

I probably shouldn't admit this, but there's literally ONE realistic IdeaScale > Helix submission (outside of specific amp/FX model requests) that we hadn't already discussed at one point. Out of thousands. IdeaScale isn't about collecting ideas as much as it is validating and prioritizing existing ideas. Its greatest strength is when someone at Line 6 says "we should do this" and I can come back and say "maybe, but since literally not a single person's asked for it, it'll probably have to be way down the list." You guys are basically my ammo in a battle I fight for you.

 

But to be fair, no one asked for cap-sense switches, four effects loops, or a hundred other Helix features, so IdeaScale doesn't have a monopoly on our development roadmap. There are a handful of left-field "pet features" I've been fighting tooth and nail to get in (that'll hopefully illicit a "whoa"), but it's all about balance.

 

 

We didn't release Helix too early. We had a very specific list of features that needed to be ready for 1.0, and in the end, we got a lot more on the list than originally scheduled.* For every perceived missing top-level feature in Helix, we can list five that no other competitor has. So one could just as easily say their boxes have five missing features, and they were incomplete at release.

 

But more importantly, our designers paid very little attention to what the other guy was doing. In fact, we actively eschewed comparison, as we wanted Helix to exist on its own. As such, it's a very unique box that has thus far, garnered a metric ton of attention.

 

* Customizable scribble strips, customizable switch LED colors, Pedal Edit mode, Preset Up/Down switches, 10-switch mode, Re-amping, Preset Numbering, MIDI PC Tx/Rx bypass, MIDI over USB, Touch Tap shortcut, Touch-hold to assign, Press to assign controller, Clear/Clear All Controllers, Copy/Paste blocks, and others were all on the chopping block at one time.

IMHO you have to keep upgrade Helix avoiding to be neither flesh nor fowl, neither a real prominent professional users product nor a guitar enthusiasts product.

I mean too much expensive for normal guitar ethusiasts or semi-pro but not enough cool for great pro guitarists.

What is your target?

[PeterHamm]

You could say that "their" boxes are missing features, but Im glad you didn't. Why? There are many things the Helix has that are great, and many it doesn't compared to the Axe FX II XL, or the KPA. Ive owned both so this is not speculation. I hope that one day Helix will have calibrated foot controller menus with percentages on when it will engage, and sloped vector settings for how the controller responds from heel down to toe down, heel off wah and effects settings with fast, medium, or slow speeds selectable from the menu, Workbench support, an editor worth its salt, multiple cab combining support, thumb-drive memory backup, and the list go's on and on... Of course one boxes features is another's poison... So as always YMMV.  As far as releasing it too early, you met your obligations and its a very nice sounding unit with lots of promise. I bought one because of this. But, Right now it would make better argument to brag about what Helix will become one day, rather than what the competition doesn't currently have on the newly released Helix, because I believe there are things it needs that the others already have. Thanks...

 

You forgot to mention the trilateral commission...

IMHO you have to keep upgrade Helix avoiding to be neither flesh nor fowl, neither a real prominent professional users product nor a guitar enthusiasts product.

I mean too much expensive for normal guitar ethusiasts or semi-pro but not enough cool for great pro guitarists.

What is your target?

I am a "pro". I get paid to make music and it helps me do that better by far than any other product in this category I have ever used. They made it for me. I was their target.

[Paolo_Maina]

You forgot to mention the trilateral commission...

I am a "pro". I get paid to make music and it helps me do that better by far than any other product in this category I have ever used. They made it for me. I was their target.

I don't want to belittle you but I mean quite famous pros...not people who plays in church, pubs, weddings, baptism, bar mitzvah, etc. even if they do it for job.

I mean session guitarists, people who play on records, people who can endorse the product.

Are you one of them?

 

In Italy a lot of well respected session guitarist use KPA, so all young guitarists say i want it too.

[PeterHamm]

I don't want to belittle you but I mean quite famous pros...not people who plays in church, pubs, weddings, baptism, bar mitzvah, etc. even if they do it for job.

I mean session guitarists, people who play on records, people who can endorse the product.

Are you one of them?

 

In Italy a lot of well respected session guitarist use KPA, so all young guitarists say i want it too.

 

Dude, I'm super-famous! What are you talking about? And... not an endorsee, but I am a beta tester, so that's close...

 

:D 

 

The percentage of working musicians in that "super-pro" category is, I'm certain, really really miniscule. In fact, the percentage of people who buy any product like this or Axe or Kemper or even HD 500 who are normal working musicians who you will never hear of is probably really small compared to the whole.

 

And... I might add, most of them aren't complaining about what a product can and can't do. They just figure out what works for them and work within those limitations (often throwing more gear at those limitations to ease them up).

 

In fact, the main reason I even engage in these discussions is that because I'm beta testing for Line 6, I feel obliged (in a good way) to help folks out who are trying to figure out the unit and I feel obligated to engage in these discussions for everyone's benefit.

[Paolo_Maina]

Dude, I'm super-famous! What are you talking about? And... not an endorsee, but I am a beta tester, so that's close...

 

:D

 

The percentage of working musicians in that "super-pro" category is, I'm certain, really really miniscule. In fact, the percentage of people who buy any product like this or Axe or Kemper or even HD 500 who are normal working musicians who you will never hear of is probably really small compared to the whole.

 

And... I might add, most of them aren't complaining about what a product can and can't do. They just figure out what works for them and work within those limitations (often throwing more gear at those limitations to ease them up).

 

In fact, the main reason I even engage in these discussions is that because I'm beta testing for Line 6, I feel obliged (in a good way) to help folks out who are trying to figure out the unit and I feel obligated to engage in these discussions for everyone's benefit.

i'm only chatting,

 

At the end i don't care very much

 

I am a guitar enthusiast now I spent my money, I made my choice.

I've chosen Helix, I'm quite happy.

I'm talking about in general i'm expressing what I think.

 

To reassume concept:

 

Keep update Helix, it's better for line6, it's better for who betted (and spent his money) on Helix as innovative product like me.

 

For example this is good advertising he is a real pro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQUmE0TfC4I

[Digital_Igloo]

IMHO you have to keep upgrade Helix avoiding to be neither flesh nor fowl, neither a real prominent professional users product nor a guitar enthusiasts product.

I mean too much expensive for normal guitar ethusiasts or semi-pro but not enough cool for great pro guitarists.

What is your target?

 

The problem is that everyone has a different idea of what it means for a product to be "pro." Luckily, real pros who've used Line 6 gear for years couldn't be bothered when armchair product designers tell them their gear isn't pro.

 

Personally, I feel the most "pro" feature of Helix is its 123dB of dynamic range (via patented circuitry), which is 13-23dB higher than most other modelers, but that doesn't mean I'd ever consider—must less state—that others aren't "pro."

 

Our target market for Helix was us, knowing full well if we could make ourselves happy, our users would be happy too—professionals and enthusiasts alike.

[PeterHamm]

Personally, I feel the most "pro" feature of Helix is its 123dB of dynamic range (via patented circuitry), which is 13-23dB higher than most other modelers, but that doesn't mean I'd ever consider—must less state—that others aren't "pro."

 

One of those things that I guess I adore but don't notice since I'm focusing on the awesome tone and flexibility...

[spikey]

You forgot to mention the trilateral commission...

 

 

No I didnt. I just held back because it wouldn't have convinced anyone so stuck in their own opinionated concrete...  ;)

[spikey]

I won't bother responding to the other stuff, but:

 

Extremely unlikely. Yes, they've signed contracts about prices, etc., but usually not with specific delivery schedules, or related penalties.

 

Evidence: the constant changing of delivery dates from retailers. You really think Line 6 is paying a penalty to retailers for that?

 You mean "delivery dates to retailers", from the manufacturer and yes, if Line-6 or any other company signed on the  dotted line that they will deliver a said product by a certain date and then don't, they there will be repercussions and penalties (fees) may apply. Most contracts allow for leeway and special circumstances, but there are set dates that must be met.  But you really think that release dates on products (hardware and software) just happen whenever they feel like it,  no strings attached, and the dates are pulled from thin air? Really? Ya know, just because there are sometimes unforeseen delays does not mean there wasn't an agreement beforehand, and that even mention these delays. You know this, right? You can't be that naive- yer pulling my chain arnt you... you bugger you- Good one hehehe....  ;)

 

BTW- I can tell you that contractors who have to wait for companies to change something in the process so that they can go back to work, back charge the company they are doing the work for, per every day they are delayed from completing their contractual completion date, per the contract.

[spikey]

i'm only chatting,

 

At the end i don't care very much

 

I am a guitar enthusiast now I spent my money, I made my choice.

I've chosen Helix, I'm quite happy.

I'm talking about in general i'm expressing what I think.

 

To reassume concept:

 

Keep update Helix, it's better for line6, it's better for who betted (and spent his money) on Helix as innovative product like me.

 

For example this is good advertising he is a real pro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQUmE0TfC4I

Well put, and I agree about Pete being a real Pro, as well as a good guitar player.

[ozbadman]

You mean "delivery dates to retailers",

Ummm, no. If I meant that, I would have written that.

 

from the manufacturer and yes, if Line-6 or any other company signed on the  dotted line that they will deliver a said product by a certain date and then don't, they there will be repercussions and penalties (fees) may apply.

Yes, but they didn't. That's the point.

 

Most contracts allow for leeway and special circumstances, but there are set dates that must be met.

Nope.

 

But you really think that release dates on products (hardware and software) just happen whenever they feel like it,  no strings attached,

Yep.

 

and the dates are pulled from thin air? Really? Ya know, just because there are sometimes unforeseen delays does not mean there wasn't an agreement beforehand, and that even mention these delays. You know this, right? You can't be that naive- yer pulling my chain arnt you... you bugger you- Good one hehehe....  ;)

Of course the dates are not pulled from thin air. There are simply no penalties for being wrong.

 

BTW- I can tell you that contractors who have to wait for companies to change something in the process so that they can go back to work, back charge the company they are doing the work for, per every day they are delayed from completing their contractual completion date, per the contract.

We're not talking about real estate here. Yes, some building contracts have penalty clauses for running late. This is not real estate, and any penalties must be defined in the contract (gratuitous underlining and bolding added).

[spikey]

 

 

There are simply no penalties for being wrong.

 

 

Arnt you the lucky one then....  ;)

 

You married yet Oz? Wont you be surprised when that contractual agreement fails... I wasn't talking about real estate either BTW, but she will get the house and auto, per the divorce decree/contract....You will get pay child support payments for 18 years per said agreement, and if you ever get a raise she can and will take you back to court to "modify" the contract. Better sell that Helix now bud... :lol:  :P  :D

[glideman]

Dangit....... here I thought I was a "pro" because I got paid to play at all those bars and stuff...   aCk!!!    :blink:

[spikey]

We are all a legend in our own mind around here glideman..., Well not me personally any longer, but I digress... ; )

 

We are this way because the Editor is not out yet. I blame Line6

[glideman]

Yep... if I had a Helix Editor, I'd definitely be a Pro, then... yessiree, Bob...

[ozbadman]

...blah blah blah

[Nimbas]

Line 6 - (long time fan)

 

The Helix hardware (interface) is incredible.  Literally better than anything available or ever dreamed of.  If I had to think up one complaint or wish I guess it would be that they had left off the volume/expression pedal to cut down on the size of the unit and weight - and just let you chose your own pedal(s).

 

You've got the hardware - inside and out.  You have the most attractive product out there.  You've got a great start on your content...

 

BUT, if you don't continue to work on this thing diligently - meaning releasing new content (amps, cabs, effects) and improving existing content (bug fixes etc) at least monthly - you will lose your momentum.  

 

Sooner or later your design will be topped.  What will keep people coming back is the community you've built and the content.

 

You cannot approach updates and content with this product like you have with those you've done in the past if you want to stay competitive.  Keep em coming...

[Nimbas]

Well, you can run dual cabs in the way of loading a stereo IR in the AX8, but 1) you have to either find a stereo IR you like or create your own, and 2) you have to actually load it into the AX8. After you do that, the IR is what it is. You can't change mics and other parameters without loading another IR.

 

I had the AX8 briefly, and it's a nice little box. There were some things I really liked, but the main thing for me is that I just felt that without having the editor open, editing the unit itself is a very frustrating experience, at least for me. I really need the ability to change things on the fly, and I know I'm not going have access to a laptop in most situations. So in that sense, the Helix has a huge advantage for me. I've said if a number of times, but one of the main reasons I have been a repeat Line 6 customer (and just to be clear, even though I have gotten a few beta units from Line 6, I've bought the vast majority of stuff I own from them) is that they seem to be one of the few companies building multi-fx devices that take the ergonomic side of things seriously. The fact is that most guitarists don't care what a box is capable of if they can't figure out how to do it.

 

I'm still waiting on mine - signed up on the 20th and they are still shipping to the 13th I think.  The Helix has them on design and interface for sure - bout how about effects and amp modeling?

 

If the sound quality is really that much better I don't really care about the interface - I can menu dive if I have to for superior effects and amp modeling.

 

I already know they have way more content - at least for now.

[PeterHamm]

...BUT, if you don't continue to work on this thing diligently - meaning releasing new content (amps, cabs, effects) and improving existing content (bug fixes etc) at least monthly - you will lose your momentum.  

 

Sooner or later your design will be topped.  What will keep people coming back is the community you've built and the content...

 

i suspect that Line 6 are the first to agree with you on these points.

[phil_m]

I'm still waiting on mine - signed up on the 20th and they are still shipping to the 13th I think.  The Helix has them on design and interface for sure - bout how about effects and amp modeling?

 

If the sound quality is really that much better I don't really care about the interface - I can menu dive if I have to for superior effects and amp modeling.

 

I already know they have way more content - at least for now.

 

My opinion won't convince skeptics, but I didn't feel that the AX8 really had anything over the Helix from a sound quality perspective. I did like the reverbs on the AX8, but not enough to make me want to keep it. The amp modeling was fine, but again it wasn't like anything that I felt that I couldn't get with the Helix. I guess I feel that if you have over 200 amps to choose from, it just gives you a lot of choices that end up being very close to one another.

 

The one thing I really don't like about the AX8 is that you are stuck with using one of the processors for amp and cab modeling and the other for effects. So if you're looking to use it for effects only, you're stuck with using only half of the processing power. And it doesn't really take a ton of effects to eat up all the DSP, especially if you're using a high quality reverb and delay. The Fractal grid layout gives you a potential of 48 slots, but it's kind of a false sense of flexibility, as you won't come close to filling those up. I suppose you could say the Helix kind of does that, too, but at with the Helix, if you want to create an effects only patch, you can use it to its full capability.

[Digital_Igloo]

You mean "delivery dates to retailers", from the manufacturer and yes, if Line-6 or any other company signed on the dotted line that they will deliver a said product by a certain date and then don't, they there will be repercussions and penalties (fees) may apply.

 

I've been in MI from all sides—retail sales, support, and now design/product management. Yes, there are contracts between manufacturers and dealers, but I've never heard of any sort of dealer-benefiting fee or repercussion if a product doesn't ship on time. If that were so, a lot of MI companies would be out of business.

 

FWIU, the dealers' payment terms typically don't begin until they receive product, so no harm, no foul.

[Lachdanan0121]

"Pro."

DI already touched on this, but people have varying definitions of what the word means.  I have a few actually. One I may already meet the requirement for, the other I may not have met it yet. 

 

What I do find irritating is how some are defining the "success" of others on here without knowing a single thing about them. While being simultaneously wrapped up in their own limited definition of what success is. ...and it be glossed over as normal speak.

 

As far as what I think the most "pro thing about the Helix is"

is its Audio Interface routing capabilities as a high quality digital modeler. It is an 8x8 (over USB) audio interface, that can ReAmp/ReFX multiple sounds while listening to the mix while having high quality amps/fxs etc.  All in a single unit. No additional A/D/A conversion, no clock timing/sync issues between multiple digital equipment. As far as I know there is no other high quality guitar modeler (or KPA) that can do that all in a single unit.

 

I was going to go Audio Interface (to accommodate) and Axe FX II xl.   Then the Helix came, after listening to clips, seeing the routing capabilities, and it would cost only half as much as going the route I was thinking about going, and its all in a single box. I immediately suspended my thoughts on the Axe FX + audio interface, and decided I will give Helix Rack a shot.  That and I want an intuitive interface on the unit that would really help save on screen space for my DAW.   

 

I am their target audience for the Helix as well.  It checks off so many boxes on my list that I had for multiple pieces of gear that I can't help but be excited about it.  Plus Line 6 states that cool things are coming for it. So I am stoked to be ordering mine in a month. 

[PeterHamm]

The one thing I really don't like about the AX8 is that you are stuck with using one of the processors for amp and cab modeling and the other for effects. So if you're looking to use it for effects only, you're stuck with using only half of the processing power...

 

This makes me wonder if Cliff and Fractal, when they saw the Helix, didn't have an "oops" moment. Their thought it that if you want FX only, you buy the FX8, and if you want amp modeling, you buy the AX8... where with Helix, if your needs change or you do one thing sometimes and the other other times, one box does it all.

 

What if there was an AFX8 that let you configure it as an FX8 one day and an AX8 the next (or the next patch for that matter), with more I/O (more loops and stuff).

 

Yes, I know they are different products (and I'm not interested in either, because I need 2 simultaneous chains), but this seems like a "mark II" upgrade that would merge the two product lines, add some capability maybe, and up the price... no brainer...

 

Then on the other hand, early adopters would probably be pissed if that came out too soon for the same price...

[GadgetGuitar]

I want to add my 2 cents in this conversation, but I am not a pro, I do play in church.

 

I was skeptic when I picked up the Helix, because I was an Axe Fx II owner.  Loved it, played it for a few years.  Used the editor to modify patches.  Never got very good at editing on the fly at a gig or church.  Could tweak a little on stage.

 

Helix editing is a ton easier to edit on stage.  Not sure if I would have learned to edit on stage if they had an editor, but it is Very Easy.

 

The thing I think that makes Fractal so enticing is the software updates.  Not only for each unit, but the fact that they update over the life span of all the products.  And I do not mean, just add new amps, Fractal is always adjusting the tones of the existing amps to match.  They do this weekly.  It was at times hard to keep up with all the updates.  You felt you wanted the update because they were constantly tweaking the amps to sound better.

[PeterHamm]

...The thing I think that makes Fractal so enticing is the software updates.  Not only for each unit, but the fact that they update over the life span of all the products.  And I do not mean, just add new amps, Fractal is always adjusting the tones of the existing amps to match...

 

I've heard a lot about this. And you know what...? This is what makes me NOT want Fractal. I love the frequent updates. I like less thinking that if I stay current, I may have to adjust all my patches on a regular basis. I do not want that. I want to make music.

[klangmaler]

I've heard a lot about this. And you know what...? This is what makes me NOT want Fractal. I love the frequent updates. I like less thinking that if I stay current, I may have to adjust all my patches on a regular basis. I do not want that. I want to make music.

 

 ++

 

Thank you.

[HonestOpinion]

I've heard a lot about this. And you know what...? This is what makes me NOT want Fractal. I love the frequent updates. I like less thinking that if I stay current, I may have to adjust all my patches on a regular basis. I do not want that. I want to make music.

 

I agree 100% that updates that change parameters that consequently force me to tweak all my presets is not at all desirable! I have definitely experienced that issue on other MFX. However, by all means bring on the updates that fix bugs, add new effects/amps, new functionality like scenes or limited spillover between presets, reduce latency or enhance the UI, etc..

[GadgetGuitar]

To me this was not a bad thing at all to get updates that quick.  They would post beta builds to try and I would load them all.  I can say over the years of using the Axe Fx, I can't think of ever being hurt or disappointed by an early build.

 

All I am trying to get at is, it was good to know I paid a lot of money for a box that keeps receiving updates even after the shelf life and newer models have been released.  I would love to see the next Helix be built to use the same software, so my current Helix can be updated with the same core software.

[klangmaler]

To me this was not a bad thing at all to get updates that quick.  They would post beta builds to try and I would load them all.  I can say over the years of using the Axe Fx, I can't think of ever being hurt or disappointed by an early build.

 

All I am trying to get at is, it was good to know I paid a lot of money for a box that keeps receiving updates even after the shelf life and newer models have been released.  I would love to see the next Helix be built to use the same software, so my current Helix can be updated with the same core software.

 

If I had to choose between tons of updates and decent stability, I'd  always take the  latter.

The mere quantity of updates is not a sign of quality to me (there are enough toys out there).

I wanted a professional gear with professional support.

[josephyballew]

I would just like to see two new amps Friedman HBE, Bogner Estacy,

I would like to see Strymon quality Reverbs, delays, mulitdelays, modulations, and swells,
12 semi tone Custom Scales harmonizer with 4 harmony and two detune

Sustainer for long sustains.

Foxrox Paradox TZF, the best flanger ever. THIS IS THE CLOSEST THING TO TAPE FLANGING AND ZERO THRU FLANGING. LISTEN TO HENDRIX 

Tone matching built into next editor - this would take up too much dsp with in helix unit.