Helix sounds like I'm playing in a box?

[jmp22684]

Hello,

 

Coming from a DT50 catastrophe... News on that is Line 6 offered to fix all 3.

 

In the meantime I am test running a helix.

 

I am running direct into my PA system with PRX715s.

 

I have been running through amp models, presets, downloads, tone settings I can find online, different mic options, filters, post/pre EQ...

 

I can't seem to find a distortion/gain/overdrive that doesn't sound like I am playing inside of a box.

 

Is this because of the mains? Is it because I am not using tubes?

 

I just cant seem to be able to get the sound quality I have with the DT50s and my hd500x?

 

Any tips? Outside of the twenty thousand or so I have been reading?

[jmp22684]

I'll add:

 

Since the DT50s are going to be repaired I could always just go back to that, but my main reason for trying out the helix is: the option of not needing to lug my amp around and just run into my PA i an extremely attractive idea.

[AtomicBlaze]

I highly recommend trying the 3 Sigma IRs.  They are amazing for high gain.

[ricksteruk]

My tip:  Cab sims are supposed to make it sound boxy!  It's supposed to sound like you'd cranked and miked up your D50 with a SM57 and are then sitting next door listening to it in the studio through the studio monitors.

 

I find the Interstate 2x12 cab the least offending.  Use a high cut above about 4.5kHz, and a low at about 100Hz

[jmp22684]

Hey guys thank you very much for the quick replies. I will try out both.

 

I am very new to IR's.... Are these to be placed after the amp model or before in the signal chain?

[ricksteruk]

Hey guys thank you very much for the quick replies. I will try out both.

 

I am very new to IR's.... Are these to be placed after the amp model or before in the signal chain?

 

They are placed at the end of the chain usually (after the amp anyway).  Some people put reverbs and delays after the IR which sounds more like an album where the producer had added FX in the studio after the guitarist had gone home, or if you want it to sound like a real guitar amp - put the FX before the IR block.  

 

Not knocking if you choose to put FX after the IR if you like the way it sounds of course!  It's just a different feel.. both are good.

[jmp22684]

Oye doing some looking around and it seems there is a bit to learn about IR's.

 

I see a lot started with reverb but that isn't the only thing. Looking at the God's cab IR I just downloaded and a lot of different options there but nothing intuitively described as a guitar cab, most titles look like reverb.

 

I would like to try a few free IR's before I jump in and start buying any (You have no idea how much I spent over the past few weeks on guitar and live sound gear!)

[duncann]

Here's a link for some IR sources: http://line6.com/support/topic/17076-links-for-free-impulse-responses-ir-here/?hl=free+impulse+responses

 

Also, Helix being a virtual guitar rig, don't be afraid to try things that you probably wouldn't in the real world. For example, placing an IR, or cab block, before an amp, in addition to after the amp. After all, an IR or cab block is basically a way of EQing the signal. You'd be less hesitant to put an EQ before the amp, just because it's named an EQ. You never know what weird combination might be pleasing to your ears.

[ricksteruk]

One of our members here roscoe5 has uploaded quite a few free IRs that he has made!

 

Here's a link to a post:

http://line6.com/support/topic/20308-th-irs-ty-thursday-irs-mo-mesa-power-amps-added/?do=findComment&comment=153090

 

Have fun :) 

[geetar_geek79]

If you're coming from an 'amp in a room' sound then going to FRFR or PA, you probably just need to get adjusted to how it sounds.  I had to greatly adjust to the sound of a Helix and a Mission Gemini 2 compared to an amp and a Mesa 212.  I did have to make EQ adjustments applied to the 1/4" outs only going to the Gemini and I tried to make the Gemini sound close as I could with my studio monitors without any EQ applied.

[jmp22684]

Yeah thats what I am coming from... My biggest worry is that to me sound quality comes first.

 

If I don't need to lug around my DT50s that would be incredible! But I need to get the sound quality out of this that I was getting from my amps.

 

I always started a show with comments of, "oh I see... You're using a multi effect processor and a line 6 amp..."

 

And ended a first set with comments, "holy hell that was amazing!"

 

I don't want to end the set with the same comment as the beginning of the set. ; )

 

I am going to keep at it and see what I can get. I just want to get that open sound out of it.... Of course I spent years dialing in that DT50 and HD500x. But I dont have years to see if this will pull the same thing before my return policy runs up.

 

Tried some of the IRs and they helped a little. I found I just used the amp model without a cab when using the IR. Running both together sounded awful... Still learning IRs.

[DunedinDragon]

I don't have any experience with the JBL's, but I just want to check that you have it set to line input and not mic input, and also, if it's on the floor you're using the mon setting and if it's vertical you're using the main setting.  I don't know if that's what's causing the problem but it may be adding to it.

 

Otherwise, you may have to do some tweaking to get your patches where you want them coming from a traditional amp to a powered monitor.  I'm assuming you've made all the necessary global changes on the Helix for going to a powered speaker rather than a traditional amp.  Most often "boxiness" is associated with frequencies in the 400hz to 1Khz range, and maybe it's just an attribute of that particular speaker that somehow accentuates that range.  Try using a Parametric EQ to reduce a fairly broad sweep in that range and see if that's what it is.

 

That would kind of be odd since most people's experience with FRFR speakers is they tend to be boomy (because of lower bass response)  or harsh (due to higher frequency response) than typical guitar cabinets, but both of which can be dealt with using hi and/or lo cut filters.  That's the typical difference most people notice.  But having no experience with JBL's specifically, I don't know for sure.

 

It has more to do with frequency response of the speaker/cabinet than anything to do with tube/solid state.

[jmp22684]

I looked through the settings and apparently I need to do some more looking. Really the only thing I did was comfirm that the xlr out was set to Line and not Amp. I didnt see any setting for monitor or mains, but will do some searching... That was the only relevant global change I saw. My mains are on posts.

 

My setup is xlr left and right to two channels linked together on my RM32ai.

 

I did futz around with the EQs in those ranges a bit to see what I could get. Even doubling up on EQs to cover what I could. As well as the cuts.

 

I am trying my best to not use any EQ settings on the mixer; incase we come to a show where we are not using our PA. Though if push comes to shove, because ebery PA sounds different, I could grab a wedge and toss a mic on it.

 

It does definitely get a bit boomy some times and then a little crisp and thin depending on the boost I toss in front. Its almost a boomy sound thats washed out but still not boomy where I want it to be... Hard to explain. When I play am open chord and then just hit the bridge with my palm and no pick I can get a real nice oomph bottom end with my previous setup... This sounds boomy and bassy in a washed out fashion but no good oomph to the palm mutes like that. So I pull the frequencies to prevent the wash out... But at that point its just all around thin.

 

I had my setup EQd to a nice thick warm sound that didnt get washed in the mix as I would pull back on the 80Hz but push the 220 Hz by about 4db with a parametric EQ on the hd500.

 

My distortion setup for the most part on the HD500 + dt50 was:

 

-treadplate around 60% gain and the EQs around 12 o'clock with the mid a bit higher and the bass and treble backed a bit.

-blackback cab (i think... Simular to the uner)

-screamer in front with the drive to zero and the level to 100

 

I would only use a studio EQ for solo boost rather than a compressor to try and retain dynamics the compressor could squash

 

And a ping pong and digital delay with the feedback, time, and mix set low; I did this instead of using reverb to prevent getting lost in the mix.

 

Outside of that most of my patch changes where because of adding various effects like chorus, wah, phase, flange, octave. I tried to use as little modelling as possible because... Well you have ever been a sound man you know why. There is a guy on youtube that has a shirt that says it all "Having 40 patches doesn't make you a good guitar player. It makes you an lollipop!"

 

; )

 

 

I am suffering from ear fatique and will tey a bit more tomorrow.

 

I k ow many will say that if I only use these for a few sounds then why not just get an amp instead of a modeller/effect pedal. To me these are more about the ability to route several effect changes to one button and/or use the expression pedal to change the parameters on sever different units at thw same time. I want to play my guitar... Not tap dance.

 

My tones I need to dial are basically:

 

1. A couple cleans

2. Crunchy dirty sultry sexy clean

3. Medium gain

4. High gain

 

Once I find that one tone that fills each category thats what I save, back up, and use across all patches.

[roscoe5]

I made the MesRec IRs in response to the initial boxyness I

first experienced the Helix cabs.

 

Whether using IRs or the Helix cabs, try adjusting the high cut to around 7-8000Hz and the low cut to 70-80hz.

 

Also try two cabs set up in parallel, even if its the same cabs with two different mics. I'm not talking about a single Dual Cab block as that separates the cabs into one left and one right.

 

Try two parallel Helix 412 Uber V30's, one with a 414 condenser mic and one with a D112 mic. The 412 Uber T75 is good for high gain too. I don't really care for the Helix Cali 412 cab even though I like physical Mesa 412 cabs.

[jmp22684]

I made the MesRec IRs in response to the initial boxyness I

first experienced the Helix cabs.

 

Whether using IRs or the Helix cabs, try adjusting the high cut to around 7-8000Hz and the low cut to 70-80hz.

 

Also try two cabs set up in parallel, even if its the same cabs with two different mics. I'm not talking about a single Dual Cab block as that separates the cabs into one left and one right.

 

Try two parallel Helix 412 Uber V30's, one with a 414 condenser mic and one with a D112 mic. The 412 Uber T75 is good for high gain too. I don't really care for the Helix Cali 412 cab even though I like physical Mesa 412 cabs.

 

Roscoe where have you been all my life? 

 

The only thing I did was pop up a quick Brit 2204 patch I was trying to work with yesterday, shut off all the EQs, IRs, effects, popped in a couple Uber cabs with those mics and set Low Cut to 70 and high to 7500... That did the trick. I am going to try out a few more amps with this and may just build those cab choices into a template.

 

While we're at it and with those results: Any suggestions for cleans?

 

Going to futz some more but I noticed immediate improvement, thank you.

[roscoe5]

Roscoe where have you been all my life? 

 

The only thing I did was pop up a quick Brit 2204 patch I was trying to work with yesterday, shut off all the EQs, IRs, effects, popped in a couple Uber cabs with those mics and set Low Cut to 70 and high to 7500... That did the trick. I am going to try out a few more amps with this and may just build those cab choices into a template.

 

While we're at it and with those results: Any suggestions for cleans?

 

Going to futz some more but I noticed immediate improvement, thank you.

 

Oh good!  I had that sick feeling in my gut and some buyers remorse when I first played the Helix high gain amps and cabs.  Took lots of research and experimenting to get there for me.  Seems easy now in hindsight. 

 

I really like the US Double Nrm and Matchstick Ch1 for cleans.  I just do the combination Helix amp / cab blocks on those with a condenser 414 mic.  Nothing fancy.  

 

Clean sounds are easier to get.  The cabs and mics REALLY influence the high gain sounds, for better or worse.

[jmp22684]

Again thanks... This may turn into my random question thread.

 

So what are you doing to switch between a dirty and clean amp in a chain?

 

I have seen a few posts about a way to get an ABY type switch but havent yet seen how to do this when browsing through Helix Edit on my pc.

 

The other thing I have noticed is that when I create a second chain on Path A most of the amps are red, or greyed out.

 

What I have done is put one amp at the end of Path A and routed that to Path B. Then in Path B I am able to use any amp. So I toss the second amp at the beginning of Path B and use two Uber V30 cabs after that. I set both amps to the same toggle so I can switch back and forth. Both amps use the cabs that are following the amp in Path B. I found when I set cabs up with both amps and toggled between the amps and cabs there was a nasty click through my PA. So I just have both on the same cabs.

 

Any other ways of doing this?

 

In the mean time I have finally started building patches for the set list and will test them out with the group next Wednesday.

 

Also, and I havent had the chance to do any reading yet, I still haven't been able to find any output options regarding monitor/mains for the output.

 

I know I have a bit of learning to do still. For example I used to run my students into the aux input on my HD500. I tried that on the Helix and they are extremely quiet. I tried setting up two different paths and setting Path A to guitar and Path B to aux input and still have the same volume discrepancy.

 

I am sure I'll figure this all out with a little reading so no push for responses; just thought I would bring it up.

 

Most everything I have seen is about using the Helix's screen, but I am a heavy user of the PC editors. Ruptured discs in my neck and back cause my left arm to go numb when I play sitting down, let alone bending over all day to edit the pedal. ; )

[jmp22684]

And a little reading during Helix induced insomnia has answered a few questions.

 

As far as adding two amps it looks like they some how split the DSP between the two paths, so it seems the way I am switching amps right now is the only way.

 

Not a big deal at all but I am surprised at how quickly the DSP gets eaten up in this thing.

 

As I was typing that I wonder if the rack unit has a stonger chip in it. Will research that while in return period.

 

Again thanks for the help and as I discover tricks of my own I'll be sure to pop on and contribute.

 

I must say... Looking at my studio with all the different computers hooked into the pedal and digital PA system... I think I had this wet dream when I was a teenager.

[jshimkoski]

When recording a real amp in a room, mic selection and placement is pretty vital to the sound of your guitar (some will be brighter, some will be darker, etc). With that in mind, treat the Helix's IR/cabs/mic combination in this manner. Find the sound that best fits what you are going for.

 

If the selection you've decided upon still produces unwanted results (boxy, harsh, or sterile sound), EQ (at the end of the chain) can be a true friend that can shape the overall tone.

 

Think of this from an audio engineer's perspective and not as a guitarist.

 

First things first, using the EQ's low cut, roll off the low frequencies until they start to effect the fundamental tone of your guitar signal then bring them back just a little bit. On electric guitar, everything below 100hz is typically trash and can safely be removed. These frequencies interfere with the bass guitar and the kick drum and its best to just remove them. It'll tighten up the overall sound of your "mix".

 

Second, find the trouble in the frequency range with an EQ sweep (set the EQ band gain very high and the Q very small) then move up and down the frequency range until whatever you're looking for really starts to stick out (in the case of boxiness, this will probably happen in the 200 - 400hz range). Once you find the center, cut the band's range there and widen the Q to taste. Be careful though, because this can kill your guitar's body if you are too heavy-handed.

 

Harshness will typically live around 3000khz. A sterile sound can probably be corrected by lifting frequencies above 8000khz (be careful, because this is also the range where a vocalist lives).

 

One last note, think of your entire band when you are tweaking these frequency ranges, and remember that you are typically playing within a group of instruments, so what sounds good by itself might completely suck in the mix, and what sounds like crap by itself could sound amazing in the mix. Play around with it and don't forget that you can have multiple EQ blocks in the Helix that you can set differently for different moments (guitar in the mix, guitar solo) then toggle between them with a footswitch. 

 

I hope this helps somebody.

[Guitarmaniac64]

And a little reading during Helix induced insomnia has answered a few questions.

 

As far as adding two amps it looks like they some how split the DSP between the two paths, so it seems the way I am switching amps right now is the only way.

 

Not a big deal at all but I am surprised at how quickly the DSP gets eaten up in this thing.

 

As I was typing that I wonder if the rack unit has a stonger chip in it. Will research that while in return period.

 

Again thanks for the help and as I discover tricks of my own I'll be sure to pop on and contribute.

 

I must say... Looking at my studio with all the different computers hooked into the pedal and digital PA system... I think I had this wet dream when I was a teenager.

Are you using IR and many effects it will take alot of DSP.

 

Also read the manual is a good thing

 

Page 19

 

Amp+Cab, Amp, or Preamp blocks

Any combination, up to four (two per path)

 

Cab blocks (includes Amp+Cab blocks)

Up to four (two per path; Cab > Dual blocks are considered two)

 

Impulse Response blocks

Up to four 1024-point IRs (two per path) or two 2048-point IRs (one per path)

 

Looper block One

 

 

 

 

[Paolo_Maina]

I highly recommend trying the 3 Sigma IRs. They are amazing for high gain.

Which are the best 4x12" among their cabs?

Diezel? Friedman?

[DunedinDragon]

 

Think of this from an audio engineers perspective and not as a guitarist.

 

 

 

THIS is the most important statement you'll ever hear when it comes to this type of modeler!!!!

 

Approach it this way and you'll be well ahead of the game.

[AtomicBlaze]

Which are the best 4x12" among their cabs?

Diezel? Friedman?

My favorites are US Custom and UK custom, I like combining them in different ways.  Friedman is good but I really like the Custom ones.  I guess it depends if your going for more modern or classic metal high gain.

[jmp22684]

So real quick question as I am building some patches.

 

For the song Loser, by Beck, I was using an Auto-Volume and Slow Filter for the high guitar part during the verse. These were split with a moderately low mix and was perfect.... 

 

Any ideas for something I can use on the Helix to make up for the missing effects?

 

Reverse delay came to mind, but that's pretty messy and relatively useless to me at the moment.

 

just lookin for some ideas

[jmp22684]

Okay,

 

I started goofing with some of the acoustic IRs that you put together. This patch will be the first one using the IRs; I have all of yours loaded but I havent started using them yet as I am just trying to slam out a setlist for the group... I'll go back and do the fine tuning later.

 

Anyways,

 

When using the IRs I am noticing a crackling sound coming from my mains. I have only tried the acoustic IRs, for the Loser tone I was building. At the moment I have decided against using the IR as I am unsure of the source of the noise and I dont want to damage the voice coils in my speakers.

 

I am still learning, this is my first full PA in a very long time and mich better than the systems I owned when I was younger... Though they were bigger... You know the teenager mentality: "this must be good, its huge! And It looks cool on stage! Arrgggg noise!"

 

Back to the point. I am running the Helix left and right xlr outs to my board, a presonus RM32ai (still learning the board), and the speakers are JBL prx715s (no sub yet).

 

On the Helix the only relevant global setting I was able to find was to set the XLR outs to mic instead of line, as per the manual states when running into a mixer's preamp. The channel gain on the board is set relatively low, the helix master volume is at about 3 o'clock, the channels aren't clipping at all, ummmm... Trying to think of any other relevant info that could help.

 

If you have any ideas let me know.

 

I am also going to pop over to the presonus forums and a couple others just to be sure I have things set correctly regarding the physical gain knob for the main outs on the rm32 as well as the input gain on the back of the prx715s... Like I said this is a brand spanking new system that hasnt even seen a stage yet and I just want to be sure I am not doing any damage to the investment.

 

Kinda wondering if I'll regret the prx715s... Perhaps I should have went all in and grabbed the prx735s. Wouldn't have left me with much for a sub though.

[roscoe5]

Okay,

 

I started goofing with some of the acoustic IRs that you put together. This patch will be the first one using the IRs; I have all of yours loaded but I havent started using them yet as I am just trying to slam out a setlist for the group... I'll go back and do the fine tuning later.

 

Anyways,

 

When using the IRs I am noticing a crackling sound coming from my mains. I have only tried the acoustic IRs, for the Loser tone I was building. At the moment I have decided against using the IR as I am unsure of the source of the noise and I dont want to damage the voice coils in my speakers.

 

I am still learning, this is my first full PA in a very long time and mich better than the systems I owned when I was younger... Though they were bigger... You know the teenager mentality: "this must be good, its huge! And It looks cool on stage! Arrgggg noise!"

 

Back to the point. I am running the Helix left and right xlr outs to my board, a presonus RM32ai (still learning the board), and the speakers are JBL prx715s (no sub yet).

 

On the Helix the only relevant global setting I was able to find was to set the XLR outs to mic instead of line, as per the manual states when running into a mixer's preamp. The channel gain on the board is set relatively low, the helix master volume is at about 3 o'clock, the channels aren't clipping at all, ummmm... Trying to think of any other relevant info that could help.

 

If you have any ideas let me know.

 

I am also going to pop over to the presonus forums and a couple others just to be sure I have things set correctly regarding the physical gain knob for the main outs on the rm32 as well as the input gain on the back of the prx715s... Like I said this is a brand spanking new system that hasnt even seen a stage yet and I just want to be sure I am not doing any damage to the investment.

 

Kinda wondering if I'll regret the prx715s... Perhaps I should have went all in and grabbed the prx735s. Wouldn't have left me with much for a sub though.

 

You refer to "you" and "your" acoustic IR's.  Are you using the acoustic IR's on my Dropbox that I made?  

 

If so, the "SC" ones are intended for single coil pickups and the "HB" ones for humbucker pickups.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v0rxzmv514uzdez/AADWNQmQi55ZVt9ShDCLGeULa?dl=0

 

I just tested the ones posted again and I hear no digital clipping or artifacts.   They are very crisp though, so you might try turning down the High Cut on these.  But going below 10,000 Hz will deaden the sound.  I don't need to cut them at all in my rig.

 

I could see how using these, or other, acoustic IR's could enhance noise that was already in the system.  Hopefully, your issue is just building power related.  Maybe a bad cable?

 

Note if you are trying to use these with active pickups, the "active" ones I made were by a user request and a shot in the dark as I dont have an active pickup guitar.  Active pickups on the others could clip them.

 

Oh, and these were made from the Amplitube Acoustic Simulator effect (for solid body electric guitars) if you want to do any research on it.

[jmp22684]

Oh yes, I was referring to the ones in your drop box.

 

I am not using them with any active pickups (tried but have never been able to get into active pup sound).

 

Though I am using a guitar with humbuckers.

 

I had the High Cut at 8.4, will bring that up a bit for clarity.

 

Just looking for ideas... I am going to pop over to some other forums and make sure I have all my output and input gains set correctly on my mixer and speakers. All the cables are brand new. Hoping it isn't doing what you mentioned and noise some where in the system due to my inexperienced setup. I am not sure what levels to set my output gain on the mixer or input gain on the mains. Still learning and this is a brand new system less than a month old that hasn't seen a gig yet.

[roscoe5]

Cool.

 

Do you still have the same crackling noise with Helix disconnected from the PA and just headphones plugged into Helix?

[Tcamponovo]

You'll always be at the mercy of your PA speakers. I've run Helix through many different kinds and usually the results are similar. Never had this kind of issue. The sound quality is always pretty good. Even through cheaper ones like Alto (GC brand). Guitarists are used to hearing their sound come from an amp that is lower to the ground, so if you suddenly don't hear that, it can take a little getting used to in a live setting with high volume levels. It's good to make sure your EQ is flat and the gain is low on your mixer as well. And the chain you build in Helix should be in the same kind of order you would have with a real amp and traditional pedal board. Sorry if you already know that, just covering the bases in hopes it will help in some way!

[mikef09]

I tried the FRFR setup when I had an AxFx Ultra a few years ago with a Mission Gemini cab and never got the low end thump of an amp in the room. So this time around I got a tube power amp to run through my cab and I'm loving the results.

 

Of course, I use the Third Party IRs when I'm running it through a Mac with Studio Monitors and it sounds just as amazing if not better.

[jmp22684]

Dont worry about getting into topics someone may know. Much I do know about the effects chains, order and staging... Much I am still learning; I try to listen and learn from everyone... Only a fool would think think they know everything which would lead them to failure of improvement.

 

Anyways. Yeah I was still getting thw crackling. Not sure where it is coming from and I cannot seem to find my headphones!! I will try running into my studio monitors and see what happens there.

 

I set the channel gain such that the meter only comes up about half way for each channel. I did pop over to the preaonus forums to discuss trim/gain output from the board and input on the mains, from what they said I have everything set correctly.

 

There is a bit I already know from a lot of reading about the different frequency ranges to sit in and what to try and manipulate... And of course I know there isn't a tried and true cookie cutter EQ rule, but it looks like the fundamentals of which frequency ranges do what, how to set Q when cutting or boosting, what ranges cause ear fatigue, etc are important foundations to understand.

 

The basics I was referring to that I knew came from a guitar amp perspective (and with coming from the hd500 and EQing a lot in that... Perhaps just a tiny tad more knowledge than a 3 band)... I understood cut the bass pre, kill anything underr 80-100, slightly boost 200-400 for fullness, cut 2khz if my ears started bleeding, dont scoop the mids... Stuff like that which got me by on the DT50 and hd500.

 

With this it is looking like I am going to do a LOT of learning before I can get it dailed in... and from the tones I have downloaded from custom tone it looks like I am not the only one ; P

 

One thing that came to mind that would be useful... Is there some sort of frequency graph that is available for the micrphones that are loaded into the Helix. Heck one for the cabs couls be useful as well.

 

Not sure how to go about doing it, but if I could figure it put I would definitely produce these charts and share!

 

The biggest problem with trying to produce these frequency charts would be that you would need to be able to test each mic on the helix with out a cab and test each cab with a perfectly flat mic... Correct?

 

Could be an excellent starting point though when building patches!

 

I had also thought about using the spectrograph and RTA graph provided in the SMAART features of my mixer. This would just give me a visual reference of where I am sitting as I make adjustments on the helix. I don't want to do the EQ on the board as I want to be prepared to not use my board... However if its easier I could pop a looper at the beginning of the chain and with something I record quickly use the boards EQ features to try and dial it in, then try to mimic those EQ settings as best as possible on the Helix using what EQ blocks it has available.

 

The other problem I am running into are my poor ears while doing this. There is a conaiderable tonal difference at different volume levels, but I am just wrecking my ears trying to set these up. I had thought about using my studio monitors to build the patches and then seeing what I get when I hook to my PA but am unsure of the differences I'll get when switching speakers. Though, that could also give me a better understanding of what I'll need to contend with when running the Helix into different PA systems and give me a better understanding and more experience using the global EQ to make up for the difference.

 

Oye... Lots and lots to learn and do.

 

The crackling does still worry me. I bougjt this pedal used as the back order was killer. I hope I wont regret that and the lack of warranty incase it is a pedal problem. I also have a problem with a patch changing volume while I am playing. This is with doing nothing. Load the patch, start playing, volume drops on the clean amp randomly, switch to the dirty amp, switch to the clean amp and the volume is back up for the clean amp, after a couple minutes it drops again. No volume pedal patches as I use a Boss FV 500L in a loop at the very end of my patches.

 

I only use the expression pedal for wah or to change parameters across several effects with a single movement of the pedal. Quite convenient for songs like paralyzer by finger eleven when I may want to cut the treble, boost the chorus, cut the gain, cut the mix on delay, ect... When moving from chorus to verse.

 

The patch that does this is quite simple though and used for the song Run To You by Brian Adams. Not aure why the volume drops like that and really makes me worry about the pedal.

[jshimkoski]

One thing that came to mind that would be useful... Is there some sort of frequency graph that is available for the micrphones that are loaded into the Helix. Heck one for the cabs couls be useful as well.

 

Check out http://helixhelp.com

 

More specifically: http://helixhelp.com/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Mics

 

There are links to the manuals for all of the mics found in the Helix on that page which should contain information to help you.

[jshimkoski]

The other problem I am running into are my poor ears while doing this. There is a conaiderable tonal difference at different volume levels, but I am just wrecking my ears trying to set these up. I had thought about using my studio monitors to build the patches and then seeing what I get when I hook to my PA but am unsure of the differences I'll get when switching speakers. Though, that could also give me a better understanding of what I'll need to contend with when running the Helix into different PA systems and give me a better understanding and more experience using the global EQ to make up for the difference.

 

Buy some good headphones and listen at a low volume. Why low volume? It saves your ears and if you can make your guitar sound great and punchy at a low volume, it should sound amazing when loud (do be careful with harshness though, you can trick yourself when you're new to this approach).

 

I use Beyerdynamic DT770s and they do a pretty good job of giving you a flat response. I can typically listen through these to dial in my settings then when I move over to my Mission Engineering Gemini 1 cab, I, usually, don't need to change anything.

 

Here's a link to the headphones I use: https://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-770-PRO-250-ohms/dp/B0006NL5SM

[jmp22684]

Hey, thank you for the links!

 

I do need to try and find my headphones... though they weren't great. I am going to try using my studio monitors for now as those sound better at low volumes than the mains do, but I am not in a position to spend anymore at the moment.

 

My expenses over the past 2 months have been:

 

$1300 - PreSonus RM32ai

  $200 - SKB 10x4 enclosed rack case

$1500 - Alienware 17 r3 for recording, click tracks, samples/backing tracks

$1700 - 2x JBL prx715s

    $70 - Startech Thunderbolt 3 to thunderbolt adapter

    $25 - Apple Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter

    $80 - Speaker Stands

  $200 - Various xlr and quarter inch cables

$1400 - Line 6 Helix

 

$6475 - Total

 

 

And I haven't bought subs yet.... Music gear spending is pretty finished for the next couple of years....

 

 

That's not including a Mesa Boogie amp I need to sell that I purchased in my quest to find a reliable replacement for the DT50s that went out on me. So I also have $1600 tied up in a Mark V combo I need to sell.... This I bought knowing I wouldn't lose much on it at the price I found it for. Everything else I have been ordering from Guitar Center online so I can drive it back to the local shop and return if it isn't a good fit. This Helix purchase is the latest in a string of purchases to find a more reliable setup.... hence my concern about the volume randomly dropping while in a single patch and no action on my part at all.

 

*Sigh*

That's not including a Mesa Boogie amp I need to sell that I purchased in my quest to find a reliable replacement for the DT50s that went out on me. So I also have $1600 tied up in a Mark V combo I need to sell.... This I bought knowing I wouldn't lose much on it at the price I found it for. Everything else I have been ordering from Guitar Center online so I can drive it back to the local shop and return if it isn't a good fit. This Helix purchase is the latest in a string of purchases to find a more reliable setup.... hence my concern about the volume randomly dropping while in a single patch and no action on my part at all.

[cruisinon2]

Hey, thank you for the links!

 

I do need to try and find my headphones... though they weren't great. I am going to try using my studio monitors for now as those sound better at low volumes than the mains do, but I am not in a position to spend anymore at the moment.

 

My expenses over the past 2 months have been:

 

$1300 - PreSonus RM32ai

$200 - SKB 10x4 enclosed rack case

$1500 - Alienware 17 r3 for recording, click tracks, samples/backing tracks

$1700 - 2x JBL prx715s

$70 - Startech Thunderbolt 3 to thunderbolt adapter

$25 - Apple Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter

$80 - Speaker Stands

$200 - Various xlr and quarter inch cables

$1400 - Line 6 Helix

 

$6475 - Total

 

 

And I haven't bought subs yet.... Music gear spending is pretty finished for the next couple of years....

 

 

That's not including a Mesa Boogie amp I need to sell that I purchased in my quest to find a reliable replacement for the DT50s that went out on me. So I also have $1600 tied up in a Mark V combo I need to sell.... This I bought knowing I wouldn't lose much on it at the price I found it for. Everything else I have been ordering from Guitar Center online so I can drive it back to the local shop and return if it isn't a good fit. This Helix purchase is the latest in a string of purchases to find a more reliable setup.... hence my concern about the volume randomly dropping while in a single patch and no action on my part at all.

 

*Sigh*

That's not including a Mesa Boogie amp I need to sell that I purchased in my quest to find a reliable replacement for the DT50s that went out on me. So I also have $1600 tied up in a Mark V combo I need to sell.... This I bought knowing I wouldn't lose much on it at the price I found it for. Everything else I have been ordering from Guitar Center online so I can drive it back to the local shop and return if it isn't a good fit. This Helix purchase is the latest in a string of purchases to find a more reliable setup.... hence my concern about the volume randomly dropping while in a single patch and no action on my part at all.

Well look at it this way...you dumped over $6K on gear...

 

For another 1%, pick up a pair of these:

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K240S

 

You won't find a better set for $70.00. Been using them forever, proven design, they're in studios everywhere.

[jmp22684]

Ha, I actually have a buddy that has a set of those in his studio.

[Lachdanan0121]

Yeah AKG makes great headphones. I would recommend the same set for the price. They have some of the best premium headphones as well.

[glideman]

These are the ones I use...

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K240mk2

[jmp22684]

Here's some fun... I am building a patch right now for a Superstition cover by The Hoax. Jesse Davey's guitar effects during the solo.

 

I think I have a bit worked out. I just ran a loop at the beginning of the chain and screwed around with an auto filter for a while into a tweed amp (I think, not at my desk at the moment).

 

During the chorus I add a bit more crunch and a mix of an octave -12 with the simple pitch's mix set to zero in heel position on the expression pedal to hit the chords during the chorus.

 

Anyways... The solo is giving some difficulty. Some how it sounds like he's doubling up a bit, so I added a dual pitch with V1 at -24 and a VERY low mix and V2 @ -12 with a decently low mix. That worked out well. One thing I use to do was the pat travers trick and pop on a delay wih the time and feedback almost at zero, but on the Helix this sound extremely digital and I dont care for it anyways... Where the trouble is coming in is on the auto filter during the solo. Its not as pronounced during the solo but is definitely there. When I reduce the mix on the auto filter it sound extremely digital... I may as well be playing the mario theme song. I also tried popping it into a second path (basically the same thing as reducing the mix) just to see if that would help... Same thing, very digital sounding...

 

Any thoughts? Any one want to have a stab at this tone?

 

 

On a side note I have noticed the same thing with the chorus effect... Nearly unusable. I used to use chorus on my patch for Paralyzer and Run To You... I have ripped it out of these on the helix because it just destroys the sound.

[jmp22684]

I'll add that these are just things I am noticing as I am working with the unit. I am enjoying this and dont intend to sound like I am complaining. Just observations as I am learning the pedal