Change of sound after update from 2.10 to 2.11?

[Dshow]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone noticed a change of the sound when updating from 2.10 to 2.11.

I'm playing through headphones and I'm hearing a noticable increase of highs after the update (which I wouldn' like at all). Also some loss of dynamics.

 

I did't change anything an globals set to the values I had before (alwas make some notes before updating). Global EQ is off.

 

I'm not sure if it's just me or has there been some changes that affect the sound?

 

Thanks

[silverhead]

There were no changes that would affect the sound. The most common causes (other than a placebo affect) would be global settings including Variax Preset/Global, IR mixups, and global EQ. You seem to have ruled out two of those. Any chance your IRs are misplaced?

[Dshow]

Thanks for the reply silverhead.

It seems to be on all patches, not only those with IRs.

Could be a placebo but I didn't explicit search for it just seems that something is different. I'm waiting for tommorrow if things change - some days I just hear things differently ;-)

[silverhead]

Do you normally use headphones? Is there another monitoring method that you could use to test/compare? Maybe recreate a brief recording and compare? Ideally, use a previously recorded dry track that you also previously reamped in v2.10. Reamp it again with the same preset in v2.11?

[Dshow]

I almost play exclusivly with headphones. The record is a good Idea. I'll have to go back to 2.10 first though. I'll do that next week, when I have more time, if I still feel it sounds different. I'm introducing Helix to a friend tommorrow, so don't wann mess around to much with my patches today.

 

Thanks

[PeterHamm]

Global EQ or input impedance issues?

[Dshow]

Global EQ is off. Input Impendance is not in global settings anymore if I'm right. Didn't mess around on it at patch level.

 

Thanks

[duncann]

I wonder if something is getting messed up during the preset conversion process. For example, I have been using the same preset for some time now, not changing anything on it for a long time. It uses IR slot 5. However, when I first constructed the patch a while ago, the IR slot it used was 15. Today (the first time I looked at this preset since updating to 2.11) I noticed that the IR slot changed back to 15, no apparent reason. I did backup the setlist this preset is in right before flashing to 2.11.

 

So maybe something similar happened to your presets, just not with IRs.

[Dshow]

I wonder if something is getting messed up during the preset conversion process. For example, I have been using the same preset for some time now, not changing anything on it for a long time. It uses IR slot 5. However, when I first constructed the patch a while ago, the IR slot it used was 15. Today (the first time I looked at this preset since updating to 2.11) I noticed that the IR slot changed back to 15, no apparent reason. I did backup the setlist this preset is in right before flashing to 2.11.

 

So maybe something similar happened to your presets, just not with IRs.

Thanks, I'll have a look at that. That's certainly possible beacause the conversion process happend twice after updating. Once soon after restarting. Then I imported my bundle. On next start the conversion process started once again.

I think I'll reflashing firmware in the coming days.

[HonestOpinion]

Thanks, I'll have a look at that. That's certainly possible beacause the conversion process happend twice after updating. Once soon after restarting. Then I imported my bundle. On next start the conversion process started once again.

I think I'll reflashing firmware in the coming days.

 

A couple of things you may want to take into consideration. By loading a bundle from a previous firmware version you have overwritten any new Factory presets and Templates in the new firmware with the ones from the previous bundle version you loaded. A lot of people here load Setlists or even individual presets when they upgrade instead of bundles to avoid this. Also, this has been the case for at least the last few firmware versions, you will always see your presets rebuilt on the first reboot after loading them. Any subsequent loads of presets will also rebuild after a restart. That is why I think it is a best practice to always reboot after loading presets before you start editing them.  

 

Note: This rebuild behavior will also usually occur on your next restart after loading a preset downloaded from CustomTone as well.

[hideout]

Also, this has been the case for at least the last few firmware versions, you will always see your presets rebuilt on the first reboot after loading them. Any subsequent loads of presets will also rebuild after a restart. That is why I think it is a best practice to always reboot after loading presets before you start editing them.

Oho! I was wondering about that.

[Guitarzman]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone noticed a change of the sound when updating from 2.10 to 2.11.

I'm playing through headphones and I'm hearing a noticable increase of highs after the update (which I wouldn' like at all). Also some loss of dynamics.

 

I did't change anything an globals set to the values I had before (alwas make some notes before updating). Global EQ is off.

 

I'm not sure if it's just me or has there been some changes that affect the sound?

 

Thanks

Same here not sounding as good as 2.10 .. last update the amp sounded better and more clarity. after I updated the amp and presets sound lower and muddier going to try and re install 2.11..

[Dshow]

Same here not sounding as good as 2.10 .. last update the amp sounded better and more clarity. after I updated the amp and presets sound lower and muddier going to try and re install 2.11..

I feel a bit reassured now. I thought I'm going slightly mad ;-)

I'll play around a bit the next days and see if I can solve this. In worst case I'll go back to 2.10

[Guitarmaniac64]

placebo :D

 

someone made a post in the FB group after the 2.10 update that the factory presets sounded so much better than before so i had to try..

 

Only to find out they still suck..

[Dshow]

placebo :D

 

someone made a post in the FB group after the 2.10 update that the factory presets sounded so much better than before so i had to try..

 

Only to find out they still suck..

That's the first thing I would normally say but this time to me it is pretty noticable.

Maybe I'll do a rollback and comparision between 2.10 and 2.11 on christmas holidays - I'll see.

[Lachdanan0121]

Umm since it hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet. What about your guitar PAD settings?  

 

It defaults to off after an update.  I usually have mine turned on.  Maybe this is feeding a hotter signal to your Helix, and thus is reducing the dynamics of its sound.  Check your Guitar PAD input for $h8%s and giggles.  Turn it on and see if it gets you closer to the sound you want.

 

I like to have my XLR outs at Mic level, not line Level, because I prefer the lower volume signal going to my Studio Monitors as those monitors are very loud.  IT defaults to Line after every update.

 

Global EQ is a great thing to check, but it isn't the only thing that gets reverted to default on a new FW update.

[zooey]

Best to write down ALL your global settings before doing an update, in case any of them change, for any reason, documented or not.

[hideout]

Updated to 2.11 on Friday and played a gig last night. No noticeable changes in sound other than on the three presets where I changed the amp model to the Litigator. Those sound WAY better.

 

The other thing is that since the 2.0 update I had 2 crashes and have since looked at the Helix somewhat with suspicion. Now this may all be psychological but it feels more stable.

[Guitarzman]

Re installed 2.11 but I didn't have that much time to play yet but will post by tomorrow...

[Guitarzman]

May just be my expression/volume pedal and the global settings -exp pedal preferences-..

Does anyone know if the volume pedal auto defaults to EXP 2 on every preset??

[HonestOpinion]

...

Does anyone know if the volume pedal auto defaults to EXP 2 on every preset??

 

Pretty much yes. As long as there is a volume block in the preset and it has not been reassigned

[Guitarzman]

'EXP 2' is the default for the floor Helix's internal expression pedal assignment for the Volume block. You have to set 'EXP 2' to 'Global' in the global settings if you want the pedal position for volume to be global for all your presets. Unless of course you have a preset where you have reassigned the default for the volume block to an alternate EXP input.

Thanks H O just noticed your post on the other thread regarding 2.11 update.. I'm amusing the wah pedals default to EXP 1 and volume pedal defaults to EXP 2..

[HonestOpinion]

Thanks H O just noticed your post on the other thread regarding 2.11 update.. I'm amusing the wah pedals default to EXP 1 and volume pedal defaults to EXP 2..

I know what you mean, intuitively it would have made more sense to me to have the volume block's default be 'EXP 1' and the wah be 'EXP 2' but that is not the way they are assigned on the Helix, it is the reverse.

[hideout]

I know what you mean, intuitively it would have made more sense to me to have the volumes block's default be 'EXP 1' and the wah be 'EXP 2' but that is not the way they are assigned on the Helix, it is the reverse.

I completely agree. I also think that to avoid confusion, the built in expression pedal should always be EXP 1. No matter which effect is being assigned to that pedal be it volume or wah, since you can really only assign one or the other, it should remain EXP 1.

[zooey]

Maybe I don't know what you mean, and I don't use pedal-controlled volume blocks much so maybe I'm wrong, but I think the current arrangement lets a patch have both volume and wah blocks be controlled by the pedal, pretty much how I'd want it.

 

By default, the pedal controls volume. Pressing the toe switch enables the wah, and switches the pedal to control it.

 

Isn't that how it works? Isn't that what you'd want in the 99% case?

[duncann]

What I don't get, is why are there defaults in the first place? None of the switches are assigned defaults. What if someone likes EXP1 for volume and EXP2 for wah or pitch? Now the defaults get in the way. Or what if you want a volume, wah, or pitch block with no expression controller so that something else on the expression controllers don't get screwed up? The defaults get in the way. Obviously the defaults can easily be unassigned or changed. But why is Line 6 guiding people's hands for the expression controllers, but not other physical controls?

[HonestOpinion]

What I don't get, is why are there defaults in the first place? None of the switches are assigned defaults. What if someone likes EXP1 for volume and EXP2 for wah or pitch? Now the defaults get in the way. Or what if you want a volume, wah, or pitch block with no expression controller so that something else on the expression controllers don't get screwed up? The defaults get in the way. Obviously the defaults can easily be unassigned or changed. But why is Line 6 guiding people's hands for the expression controllers, but not other physical controls?

 

I can see why some people, especially those using external expression pedals, would prefer not to have defaults. Maybe they could add a global setting for the volume and wah defaults to add flexibility. Personally I like having defaults for the volume and wah as I set them up in pretty much every preset. It is a timesaver not to have to go in and set up the assignments every time. It just would been more intuitive IMHO to make the volume be 'EXP 1' and the wah 'EXP 2'. It is an exceptionally minor issue to me however.

[MusicLaw]

This sounds like the it should be a Global Settings, User Preference Item. Sort of like the fsw configuration layout options.

 

Why couldn't Global Settings allow users to designate their default preference EXP1/EXP2 options, such as: Vol/Wah, Wah/Vol, Off (until otherwise Model/Block Controller assigned), etc?

[Guitarzman]

This sounds like the it should be a Global Settings, User Preference Item. Sort of like the fsw configuration layout options.

 

Why couldn't Global Settings allow users to designate their default preference EXP1/EXP2 options, such as: Vol/Wah, Wah/Vol, Off (until otherwise Model/Block Controller assigned), etc?

Yes have to agree with you Music Law and H O with why EXP 2 is the default. but there may be a reason why it;s set up this way...

Thanks for all the feedback( pardon the pun) B)  much appreciated!

[hideout]

Maybe I don't know what you mean, and I don't use pedal-controlled volume blocks much so maybe I'm wrong, but I think the current arrangement lets a patch have both volume and wah blocks be controlled by the pedal, pretty much how I'd want it.

 

By default, the pedal controls volume. Pressing the toe switch enables the wah, and switches the pedal to control it.

 

Isn't that how it works? Isn't that what you'd want in the 99% case?

 

 

Yeah but that would only work if you always have your expression pedal at the full on toe position all the time. If you use that pedal in a mid point position so as to maintain control over and instantly compensate for slight patch volume differences, that setup won't work at all. In order to use the wah, I'd have to max out the pedal so I can step on the toe switch.

[zooey]

Yes, you're right. TBH, that's always puzzled me completely about the whole idea of having one physical pedal masquerading as two.

 

I don't see how any pedal configuration options could get around that as long as toe switching is in play.

[hideout]

Yes, you're right. TBH, that's always puzzled me completely about the whole idea of having one physical pedal masquerading as two.

 

I don't see how any pedal configuration options could get around that as long as toe switching is in play.

 

Well, you certainly couldn't do the auto-on Wah convenience but, if they made it so that between the Volume and the Wah, which ever effect is ahead of the other in the signal chain gets assigned to EXP 1. The other will have to be a controlled by an external pedal assigned to EXP2.

[jbuhajla]

Yeah but that would only work if you always have your expression pedal at the full on toe position all the time. If you use that pedal in a mid point position so as to maintain control over and instantly compensate for slight patch volume differences, that setup won't work at all. In order to use the wah, I'd have to max out the pedal so I can step on the toe switch.

In that case, you would have to utilize external expression pedals, with one effect assigned to each. That's what I love about Helix, there seems to be enough options available to make about 99% of everything work.

[hideout]

In that case, you would have to utilize external expression pedals, with one effect assigned to each. 

 

 

Of course, but that's not really the point we're making.

[Guitarzman]

Re installed 2.11 but I didn't have that much time to play yet but will post by tomorrow...

Just did a 10 and 11 reboot and got my tone and volume back wheeef.....  ;)  

[phil_m]

What I don't get, is why are there defaults in the first place? None of the switches are assigned defaults. What if someone likes EXP1 for volume and EXP2 for wah or pitch? Now the defaults get in the way. Or what if you want a volume, wah, or pitch block with no expression controller so that something else on the expression controllers don't get screwed up? The defaults get in the way. Obviously the defaults can easily be unassigned or changed. But why is Line 6 guiding people's hands for the expression controllers, but not other physical controls?

I think the defaults are there so if someone creates a patch without reading the manual, and inserts a volume pedal and wah pedal as they would on the HD series, it will work. Really not a big deal either way.

[phil_m]

This sounds like the it should be a Global Settings, User Preference Item. Sort of like the fsw configuration layout options.

 

Why couldn't Global Settings allow users to designate their default preference EXP1/EXP2 options, such as: Vol/Wah, Wah/Vol, Off (until otherwise Model/Block Controller assigned), etc?

 

Every time someone suggests another global setting parameter, DI punches a puppy...

[MusicLaw]

Every time someone suggests another global setting parameter, DI punches a puppy...

Phil, your posts have alway been informative to read. It is so disappointing to see your poorly worded repulsive characterization. Not cool! I seriously doubt that either of you suffer from "Michael Vick syndrome". If recurrent product suggestions are so troubling, someone needs serious help, and to find a different release.

[phil_m]

Phil, your posts have alway been informative to read. It is so disappointing to see your poorly worded repulsive characterization. Not cool! I seriously doubt that either of you suffer from "Michael Vick syndrome". If recurrent product suggestions are so troubling, someone needs serious help, and to find a different release.

 

Michael Vick? Yikes! Certainly didn't mean to allude to anything like that... Just a poor choice of words/bad joke on my part.

 

I only mentioned anything only because I feel that there are so many global options right now, it can be hard to remember what all is there. Was just remembering reading something DI wrote a few months ago about him giving the stink eye to people on the Helix team when they suggest adding more global settings. I'm sure he didn't mean that to discourage other suggestions from customers, though. :)

[duncann]

I think the defaults are there so if someone creates a patch without reading the manual, and inserts a volume pedal and wah pedal as they would on the HD series, it will work. Really not a big deal either way.

 

You're right. It's not a big deal either way. I'm just wondering what makes a volume, wah, or pitch block unique enough to have automatic assignments? It also kind of implies that these blocks should only be used in one specific way, that is manual control by expression pedal. I get it that this is the most obvious method of control for these blocks, and the one that most people use (maybe this is the reason?). When a chorus, reverb, phaser, et al. block is added, there is no automatic switch assignment, and none of their parameters are automatically assigned to anything.