Helix Mic Input Replacement

[jjvillafane]

Hello,

 

Like many others here my Helix's mic input stopped working after I *unintentionally* forgot to turn off phantom power before unplugging the mic.

 

I'm here because I'm curious if any of you guys have had any luck getting the part replaced or fixed. Have you been able to find a workaround?

 

Any info will be useful.

 

 

Thank you guys!

[line-6-user]

Sorry to learn that your Helix failed. My Mic input also failed. Being that it was only a few months old, it was repaired but when it was returned to me, it had another problem so it was replaced with a new one.

 

Line 6 did the right thing there but the situation needs to be resolved somehow... maybe with some code in the next firmware! And a flashing warning while the phantom power is activated?

 

Hope your Helix in under guarantee as I don't think there is a workaround.

[jbuhajla]

Hello,

 

Like many others here my Helix's mic input stopped working after I *unintentionally* forgot to turn off phantom power before unplugging the mic.

 

I'm here because I'm curious if any of you guys have had any luck getting the part replaced or fixed. Have you been able to find a workaround?

 

Any info will be useful.

 

 

Thank you guys!

Open a support ticket with Line 6. 

[jm345]

Mine failed also. There is a thread about it here. Bottom line, contact Line 6 and open a support ticket.

[DunedinDragon]

Yep..had a failure on my first unit and I opened a ticket and it was repaired and sent back within a week.  I got a second backup unit that I use in my recording studio and that mic unit has never failed.

[pmarchione]

Yeah. I am about to send mine in for a second time. Just repaired the mic input less than 3 months ago. Maybe time to look at AxeFX and give up on this.

[jeremyn]

Phantom power shouldn't be a problem when unplugging, unless you take a long time to unplug and keep 're-plugging' it back as it makes/breaks contact. But, that should be rare.

 

The biggest problem is the action of hot plugging a condenser mic (or any other powered device) into the unit. At that point, all the charged coupling caps are discharged through the protection diodes of the input stage (ie. the Helix), and into the mic's power cap. Condenser mics are usually designed so this is not an issue for the output stage of the mic. Dynamic mics usually don't cause a problem as they don't have a high current path between the shield and the balanced terminals. This is why dynamic mics aren't (generally) affected by phantom power.

 

I'm too scared to turn on the phantom power on my Helix so I only use dynamic mics with it. I was super careful the couple of times I used a phantom powered mic to make sure everything was off before plugging in the mic (just in case phantom power was already on), then turned on the unit, and turned on phantom power.

 

When the phantom is enabled (or the unit powered up) after everything is already plugged together, the phantom pull up resistors limit the current to a few milliamps as the caps are slowly charged and the phantom voltage rises to full rail (48V). Hot plug after the phantom power has charged those input coupling caps and the current is no longer limited by the phantom pull up resistors. A properly designed interface will limit inrush current flow and/or protect itself from huge inrush currents.

[line-6-user]

I still believe that Line6 should implement a phantom power notice on the display, flashing red when is on, it can't be difficult to add in the next firmware update.

 

Someone told me that there was a problem with early production but I'm dubious about it being that I purchased mine last May.

 

What is Line6 word on plugging in a dynamic microphone while the Helix is on? Just to clarify... my helix was OFF when I connected my Dynamic microphone.

 

I have seen many occurrences were sound check has been done and another singer want to plug in their Dynamic microphone in the mixer while is on. Never seen those mixers' s mike input fail.

 

With the Helix, I'm am worrying every time I go to switch it on, in case something fails on it, you could say that I am scarred from that time the mike input failed and when I switched it on after the repair, the screen was white. I assumed that the repair centre tech person didn't fully attach the data connector on. Anyway, the shop decided that was not acceptable and ordered a new Helix.

 

Hope I won't have to return it back for repairs.

[MusicLaw]

Anyone have a BLUE enCore 200 Active Dynamic Mic that they have used with the Helix? For those unfamiliar with the enCore 200 it too uses 48v to power the onboard circuitry. 

[jeremyn]

I still believe that Line6 should implement a phantom power notice on the display, flashing red when is on, it can't be difficult to add in the next firmware update.

 

Someone told me that there was a problem with early production but I'm dubious about it being that I purchased mine last May.

 

What is Line6 word on plugging in a dynamic microphone while the Helix is on? Just to clarify... my helix was OFF when I connected my Dynamic microphone.

 

I have seen many occurrences were sound check has been done and another singer want to plug in their Dynamic microphone in the mixer while is on. Never seen those mixers' s mike input fail.

 

With the Helix, I'm am worrying every time I go to switch it on, in case something fails on it, you could say that I am scarred from that time the mike input failed and when I switched it on after the repair, the screen was white. I assumed that the repair centre tech person didn't fully attach the data connector on. Anyway, the shop decided that was not acceptable and ordered a new Helix.

 

Hope I won't have to return it back for repairs.

 

A properly designed phantom capable input channel should not have a problem. There were many desks I've seen back in the day that had 'dead' channels. Almost always the ones with phantom power on them. These days, most desks have good protection (or input transformers) to avoid problems.

 

Hot plugging into phantom powered inputs has always been discouraged. The classic where a singer plugs their active mic (or an instrumentalist an active DI) into a phantom powered input while the system is active usually involves some serious pant lollipopping from anyone in earshot of a speaker when the channel isn't muted.

 

Regarding the dynamic mic. A typical dynamic like an SM58 or e835 doesn't have a current path between the shield/ground line and the signal lines, so it shouldn't cause a problem unless you short the ground to one of signal pins while plugging in (which doesn't happen on inputs as the input side XLR is female). However, it could be a problem if you have one of those 1/4" unbalanced output mics that effectively shorts one of the signal pins to ground. Again, this shouldn't be a problem if you're already plugged in while the Helix is off (and has been off long enough for the coupling and supply capacitors to discharge).

 

With insufficient technical information from Line6 on the electrical characteristics of the mic input, there is no way to make a call one way or the other. Maybe just having phantom power enabled at all is enough to fry the input if components haven't been properly rated and the circuit correctly designed. Who knows? (Well Line6 does, but gone are the days of published schematics and technical repair manuals in a throw-away society where it costs more to repair something than to replace the entire unit.)

[pmarchione]

Anyone have a BLUE enCore 200 Active Dynamic Mic that they have used with the Helix? For those unfamiliar with the enCore 200 it too uses 48v to power the onboard circuitry. 

Yup. That is the Mic I use and My Helix is in for the second time in 2 months. I never had the problem with a regular Dynamic mic. If you use the BLUE make sure Phantom power is off before plugging in everything. I have decided to give up on using a mic with the helix at this point.

[smlalx]

 

[brue58ski]

Boy, I hope I never have to do that.

 

 

38 minutes ago, smlalx said:

 

 

[HonestOpinion]

9 hours ago, brue58ski said:

Boy, I hope I never have to do that.

 

 

 

 

Very cool that someone figured this out but definitely not for the faint of heart or vision. Despite Line6's excellent service the words "Warranty Voided" leap easily to the tongue on this one.

[brue58ski]

 

1 hour ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Very cool that someone figured this out but definitely not for the faint of heart or vision. Despite Line6's excellent service the words "Warranty Voided" leap easily to the tongue on this one as well.

 I agree about the warranty. I've got as about a year left on it, which will probably be when it goes out. 

[SaschaFranck]

14 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

Despite Line6's excellent service the words "Warranty Voided" leap easily to the tongue on this one.

 

Over here in Europe it's probably a better idea to consult a decent technician rather than relying on Yamahas quite shady support. It's a shame the way Line 6 treats Helix customers over there hasn't made it across the world, really (I know of one guy waiting for his Helix to return from a repair since 2 months already, which is completely inacceptable by any standards).

Hence I applaud people for posting such videos.

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

Over here in Europe it's probably a better idea to consult a decent technician rather than relying on Yamahas quite shady support. It's a shame the way Line 6 treats Helix customers over there hasn't made it across the world, really (I know of one guy waiting for his Helix to return from a repair since 2 months already, which is completely inacceptable by any standards).

Hence I applaud people for posting such videos.

 

Hi Sascha,

 

I don’t know which of the many European Service centres you are referring to, when you say a repair has taken 2 months and is still not completed. I think that is a long time by anyone’s standard, but you don’t say what the guy is having repaired and what the issue is, so there could be many reasons for the delay.

 

Line 6 have a single authorised Service Centre in the U.K., which I found to to be very fast and efficient (and low cost) when I need a repair to the joystick on my Helix Floor unit. 

 

You, and your friend’s experience with “Yamaha’s quite shady support” appears to be completely different to mine here in the U.K. 

[SaschaFranck]

2 hours ago, datacommando said:

You, and your friend’s experience with “Yamaha’s quite shady support” appears to be completely different to mine here in the U.K. 

 

Might be. But as said, he's waiting for around 2 months by now (for a broken joystick, btw., something that - unfortunately - has to be considered a standard). Fwiw, he's in Switzerland, but apparently it might as well take some time in Germany, at least from what I've read.

I really hope this will never happen to me. Unfortunately, some parts on the Helix aren't exactly "road ready" (both joysticks, the mic preamp, some LT EXP pedals, broken LEDs and what not). Yes, I knew this before I bought it and still did so, but well, it always leaves me a bit scared that something may happen.

[CraigGT]

It's interesting that the chip is the mic preamp and has nothing to do with the phantom power which must be being applied externally.

 

Interestingly the chip's datasheet mentions the need to protect it against phantom power surges and gives a suitable circuit which as far as I can see from pictures of the pcb are being implemented.

 

Craig

 

[HonestOpinion]

7 hours ago, CraigGT said:

It's interesting that the chip is the mic preamp and has nothing to do with the phantom power which must be being applied externally.

 

Interestingly the chip's datasheet mentions the need to protect it against phantom power surges and gives a suitable circuit which as far as I can see from pictures of the pcb are being implemented.

 

Craig

 

 

The Helix can provide its own phantom power 'Global Settings'  --> Ins/Outs --> 'Mic In 48v Phantom' = "On". Reportedly it is best to have this set the way you need it prior to plugging in a mic. Turn the Helix off before you plug/unplug the mic to minimize chances for frying something, particularly when using phantom power. I wouldn't plug a shorted XLR cable in there either.

[SaschaFranck]

Having to turn a unit off to avoid possible damage just to connect a mic is ridiculous. If that was like a recommendation for a mxing console, you'd sell exactly zero units.

As much as I like the thing, it has to be said that the Helix suffers from absolutely serious hardware issues/flaws, there's no way around it.

[TMaxxUK]

have had this issue since the first time i tried to use the mic input... and having experienced a 3 week turnaround on a previous repair with the UK service agent, am reticent to send my Helix away again as i use it to record daily.

 

i have had to work around this by using my Presonus USB audio device for the mic, not ideal and. a pain in the arse when recording vocals after guitar or other instruments.

 

if there was some form of loan unit, even if repaired/replaced units, that would make the wait acceptable... but 3 weeks to have a scribble strip replaced and the expression pedal re-calibrated to go back to zero is really not acceptable for a unit that costs over a grand!

 

there seems to be a lack of spares stocked here... which i think is disgusting, and quite frankly i expect better for a premium industry-leading product.