G10 Relay Update Issue

[cruisinon2]

17 hours ago, PierM said:

I have 2 units, they worked flawless for years, now they are both doing same crap as others are reporting.

 

PLEASE RELEASE A DOWNGRADE or set a global refund. This is ridiculous!

 

That's the one thing I'm certain they won't do... the lawyers will never allow it. Nevermind that the number of overheated batteries represented some infinitesimally small percentage of the total units in the wild...they'll never risk the liability.

[tedcanshred]

I had the same problem of the base flashing red after the firmware update. Here is what I've found, not all USB cables are the same. Some provide data while some only charge. I tried the firmware updates with a different USB cable and viola! All good. I would recommend running both firmware updates with a USB cable that is not just a charging cable.

 

Good luck, rock on!

[squitttolo]

TedCanShred, I have used the original Line 6 USB cable that comes along with the unit, I have redid the whole update procedure, but the situation still remains the same: only HALF AN HOUR before the unit starts to turn red!!!

[PierM]

Yeah, no. The cable theory it’s just not true. I guess he’s just in the middle of the short period of time, where the unit works, and leds are green.

 

For what I see, looks like this is affecting 90% of G10 users, which makes the L6 silence really embarrassing. 

[meshubben]

I'm just bored by this situation. Can some of you search on their hard drive if they have a file called "G10Tx_1_4.wuf" ? I want to downgrade.

[phil_m]

19 hours ago, PierM said:

Yeah, no. The cable theory it’s just not true. I guess he’s just in the middle of the short period of time, where the unit works, and leds are green.

 

For what I see, looks like this is affecting 90% of G10 users, which makes the L6 silence really embarrassing. 

 

You're basing your 90% number on what exactly? A few posts here? There have been over 144,000 G10 transmitters since it was originally introduced.

 

I imagine what might be happening is that some of these units were probably getting close to the end of their battery life, and there probably was some internal tolerance changed as far as monitoring the output voltage goes, so they're just registering as being low faster than they were before. I don't know. If there's a genuine issue with the firmware, I imagine it will get fixed eventually. Again, this is another reason why opening a support ticket is important. It's the only way to get real data to Line 6.

[meshubben]

@phil_m Please Phil, it looks like you're really devoted to make us all feel like dumb. There's a serious problem with this firmware, let's be honest at least. How can you explain that just after the upgrade, the battery life drops from 8 hours to 2 hours for most of us HERE (I don't known all the 144k owners, I know...), and that some units are just bricked? I have bought my G10s on November 2019, so 4 months ago. It worked well with good battery life. And just after a firmware upgrade, it's just kind of useless.

 

This unit is not that cheap, and we have bought it based on advertised specifications. So please, do not try to excuse line6 for this very poor firmware update. Because, it's a poor firmware update. I will send my unit back, once the covid-19 things are more relax. But for the moment, I am just very disappointed, and I just hope a firmware upgrade soon. I can live with 6 hours battery life for the sake of safety. 2 hours is just damn ridiculous.

 

Also, I encourage everybody to open support tickets of course. I have opened one, and posted my answers here. I have opened another ticket today to get a firmware downgrade.

[phil_m]

9 minutes ago, meshubben said:

@phil_m Please Phil, it looks like you're really devoted to make us all feel like dumb. There's a serious problem with this firmware, let's be honest at least. How can you explain that just after the upgrade, the battery life drops from 8 hours to 2 hours for most of us HERE (I don't known all the 144k owners, I know...), and that some units are just bricked? I have bought my G10s on November 2019, so 4 months ago. It worked well with good battery life. And just after a firmware upgrade, it's just kind of useless.

 

This unit is not that cheap, and we have bought it based on advertised specifications. So please, do not try to excuse line6 for this very poor firmware update. Because, it's a poor firmware update. I will send my unit back, once the covid-19 things are more relax. But for the moment, I am just very disappointed, and I just hope a firmware upgrade soon. I can live with 6 hours battery life for the sake of safety. 2 hours is just damn ridiculous.

 

Also, I encourage everybody to open support tickets of course. I have opened one, and posted my answers here. I have opened another ticket today to get a firmware downgrade.

 

Not trying to make anyone feel dumb. I'm just saying that there's no way to gauge the actual numbers with this sort of issue based on a super-small sample size that is people who post on these forums. If you bought your unit in November 2019, it is still under warranty, and you should be eligible for a replacement.

 

I have to G10S systems and one of the original G10 systems. I haven't extensively tested them all yet, but the one, I charged at the beginning of the week, and I've been using it all week in the evenings, and I haven't had to recharge it yet. So at least for me, I'm not seeing the same sort of battery life reduction others are seeing. If there's a problem, Line 6 will get to the bottom of it, but they need people to cooperate with them to do it.

[meshubben]

If I could go out of my home and my shop was open, I would have sent it back some days ago :) The fact that yours works flawlessly (lucky you) is not more statistically relevant than ours don't. It should be easy to understand that this is frustrating :)

 

I'm open to collaborate with line6 if they want my G10T to make further tests. Anyway, at this time, it's not usable. I'm a software developer, and I know how things can go wrong sometimes. But I know too how QA is important. Particularly when so much units are in the wild, and when there's a safety issue.

 

[PierM]

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

You're basing your 90% number on what exactly? A few posts here? There have been over 144,000 G10 transmitters since it was originally introduced.

 

I imagine what might be happening is that some of these units were probably getting close to the end of their battery life, and there probably was some internal tolerance changed as far as monitoring the output voltage goes, so they're just registering as being low faster than they were before. I don't know. If there's a genuine issue with the firmware, I imagine it will get fixed eventually. Again, this is another reason why opening a support ticket is important. It's the only way to get real data to Line 6.

 

It's easy statistic.

 

My brother has a G10, bought 6 months ago. barely used. Average 7 hours before the update. Now it's 3 hours top.

I have 2 on my side. One is from late 2017. Before the update was average 6 hours before the update. Now it's 2.5/3 hours top.

The other one it's from late 2018, barely used (it's my backup). Before the update, 7 hours. Now 3 hours top. It's 3 units, from 3 different batches. 2017, 2018 and 2019. Two of them are basically as new.

 

Plenty of people here reporting this. Plenty on other forums and socials.

 

But yeah, you can keep being denial, as a L6 devote guy, and keep saying other people it's their own units problems.

 

I'm not gonna buy this BS. I'm an electronic engineer myself, so doesnt work sorry.

[Despeaux]

On 3/25/2020 at 7:41 PM, Despeaux said:

I'm in the same boat - updated the firmware and now the transmitter won't sync with the base. 

 

I'll try unplugging it all for 24 hours then trying again. otherwise,  I guess I'll open a ticket... :(

 

Just an update on the failure of the transmitter to sync with the base post firmware upgrade issue...

 

As suggested by others, I unplugged my base and set the transmitter on  the side for about an hour (because I'm impatient) then tried it again and it still didn't work. Then I forgot about it for 2 days and tried it again - and it worked. I guess some component needed to fully discharge before resetting. Just a fancy case of "have you tried turning it of and back on again?"  ;-) 

 

Having said that I am also experiencing the shortened battery life after the firmware on 2 of my G10 units. I suspect the 3rd has it too but it takes a while to prove so I'll be testing that one this afternoon. Then it's ticket time because a 2 hour battery life doesn't cut it for a 3 hour gig.

[cruisinon2]

On 3/28/2020 at 11:50 AM, phil_m said:

I have to G10S systems and one of the original G10 systems. I haven't extensively tested them all yet, but the one, I charged at the beginning of the week, and I've been using it all week in the evenings, and I haven't had to recharge it yet. So at least for me, I'm not seeing the same sort of battery life reduction others are seeing.

 

For me the reduction in battery life was immediate and dramatic... and my transmitter was fully charged immediately prior to doing the update, so any changes the firmware made to charging capacity should not have been a factor, yet the battery life was significantly reduced anyway, and with subsequent recharging and use, it's only gotten worse... down to 1 green bar in less than an hour of playing. It used to take more than two hours for the first bar to disappear. The unit is just barely a year old, and there's no way that I'm anywhere near the battery's advertised number of charging cycles. Something in that firmware screwed the pooch... what I have no idea.

 

My replacement is due to arrive today, so I'll see if there's any significant improvement... if not, then I'll be looking at some other system. Which would be a shame because I like the form factor, and it works great, no dropouts or interference problems... but from 6+ hrs of battery life down to 2-2.5 hrs, literally overnight, makes it pretty much useless.

 

I've never seen any other device with a rechargeable battery display that degree of decreased capacity/performance from one day to the next... it just doesn't happen. It's incremental and gradual over extended periods of time.

[Ilya-V]

I bought a G10S this morning at a local shop, and started gathering information on the internet,, lots of praise on youtube,, total let down after that firmware update.

I am going to cancel my order ASAP before they ship it to me,, I think that 2 hours is unacceptable.

 

A reply by Line6:

Quote

Hi, your RelayG10T needs to be replaced At the moment the G10T cannot be delivered, (until the updated units are available)

 

As in Hardware "updated"?

I think Line 6 pulled all G10 unit from shelves because they do need some kind of hardware revision and not only firmware update.

Otherwise they would not have pulled it if a simple firmware update is all that needed to fix the issue.

 

All current transmitters are basically 'crippled' by this update to not supposedly overheat.

They will replace the old transmitter but not clearly state that the current hardware is flawed?

[phil_m]

3 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

For me the reduction in battery life was immediate and dramatic... and my transmitter was fully charged immediately prior to doing the update, so any changes the firmware made to charging capacity should not have been a factor, yet the battery life was significantly reduced anyway, and with subsequent recharging and use, it's only gotten worse... down to 1 green bar in less than an hour of playing. It used to take more than two hours for the first bar to disappear. The unit is just barely a year old, and there's no way that I'm anywhere near the battery's advertised number of charging cycles. Something in that firmware screwed the pooch... what I have no idea.

 

I mentioned it above, but is the life of the transmitter actually corresponding to the bars on the receiver. I actually don't look at the receiver that much since mine is sitting on a shelf in my rack, but I noticed the other night that I was down to one red bar, and I was still able to play for about another two hours before the transmitter starting blinking red.

[phil_m]

57 minutes ago, Ilya-V said:

I bought a G10S this morning at a local shop, and started gathering information on the internet,, lots of praise on youtube,, total let down after that firmware update.

I am going to cancel my order ASAP before they ship it to me,, I think that 2 hours is unacceptable.

 

A reply by Line6:

 

As in Hardware "updated"?

I think Line 6 pulled all G10 unit from shelves because they do need some kind of hardware revision and not only firmware update.

Otherwise they would not have pulled it if a simple firmware update is all that needed to fix the issue.

 

All current transmitters are basically 'crippled' by this update to not supposedly overheat.

They will replace the old transmitter but not clearly state that the current hardware is flawed?

 

There was no hardware change. I believe they applied the firmware update to all the stock to called back, but the hardware is still the same.

 

As far as the battery life after the update, I'm certainly getting more than two hours. I charged mine fully last Saturday, and I used my transmitter all week without having to charge it again until yesterday. Between Saturday and Sunday alone, I probably used it for over three hours.

 

People can accuse me of being a shill or whatever, but I'm just sharing my experience as well. For whatever reason, I'm not seeing the dramatic battery life reduction others are seeing here.

[Ilya-V]

Battery life or indication leds,, something went wrong after this firmware update according to many users.

 

It could be a mis-calibration between the battery charge and indication leds of the transmitter and receiver.

But does the battery actually die after mere 2 hours from full charge? Can anyone confirm/deny this besides phil_m?

 

It's not healthy for a Lithium-Ion batteries to be discharged to zero, that's what actually shortens their life.

If the indication leds are miscalibrated, how are we to know now?

Should people just ignore the indication leds now?

 

If it's just a charge calibration issue and the LEDs are wonky, there should be some kind of recalibration procedure.

[bjolli83]

Since the latest upgrade my G10 has also been all wonky. Just now I only managed to get a half hour of play time out of a "fully charged" transmitter (solid green light, been sitting in receiver over the weekend) before it died completely. Put it back in the receiver, and less than half an hour later the light is solid green, like it's fully charged... I have also noticed it sometimes randomly starting to "charge" while just sitting there in the receiver. a quirk that also started after the upgrade. 

 

Ticket already opened.

[cruisinon2]

Ok, I'll start with the good... Line 6 customer service continues to be excellent. After opening a ticket for the sudden extremely diminished battery life following the firmware update, they replaced my entire unit with absolutely no fuss, and it was shipped pretty quickly, especially given that the world is currently upside down. I was only expecting a new transmitter, but they replaced the whole thing, base unit and all. The handful of times I've had to deal with warranty issues over the years, L6 has always done the right thing and taken care of my concerns, and this time was no exception. Job well done.

 

Now for the not so good... after charging the new transmitter fully, I played for about 75 or 80 minutes, at which point only 1 green bar remained on the display. This is slightly longer than the old transmitter, but still nothing close to the performance I used to get with the old one before the firmware update, when all three battery lights would remain lit for 2+ hours on a full charge, and total playing time was 6 to 6.5 hours.

 

I'll continue to experiment with it over the next couple of days and see what kind of total playing time I get, but based on the indicated rate of discharge, I will be amazed if I get the 6+ hours I've been accustomed to, and certainly not anywhere near the 8 hours advertised. No idea why, but the new firmware has torpedoed how this unit functions, as neither unit behaves as my original one did for more than a year.

 

I hate batteries...

[meshubben]

kudos to line6 for replacing your whole unit. I have only been told to contact my reseller. I suppose that's useless as your brand new unit has poor battery life too. Let's hope a firmware fix in the next weeks :(

[Ilya-V]

At least that means there was no hardware revision yet, and that's good.

Yes, hopefully they will fix the 1/3 original battery life issue ASAP in the next firmware.

 

They probably erroneously reduced the full charge capacity from 3.7v to 3v which resulted NOT in 80% battery capacity but more like 30%.

Same thing with a 9V battery, if it's down to 7v that's not 80% but a dead battery.

Seems like their math was off or something along those lines.

Quick fixes without proper testing often produce such results, figures.

 

Old batteries will not go to full Voltage capacity and that's what probably caused the overheating of old batteries, because the charger did not stop the charging,, (the provided transmitter USB charger cable for example).

A proper charger will stop charging according to the Current derivative (charging rate/speed), NOT voltage capacity !!

Once the current derivative is below certain threshold it should stop charging,, NOT VOLTAGE CAPACITY,,, and that accommodates any battery age.

 

They destroyed the life span and usefulness for ALL G10/S owners, old and new alike,, all because of 4 reports, and  poorly tested firmware.

Line 6 should know better.

[PierM]

14 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

Ok, I'll start with the good... Line 6 customer service continues to be excellent.

 

Not for me.

 

I opened a ticket, explaining exactly what happened, they replied to try again the firmware procedure... which is of course totally useless.

 

People talking techno gibberish, to minimize the problem, aren't helping either.

[phil_m]

On 3/30/2020 at 1:03 PM, Ilya-V said:

It's not healthy for a Lithium-Ion batteries to be discharged to zero, that's what actually shortens their life.

If the indication leds are miscalibrated, how are we to know now?

Should people just ignore the indication leds now?

 

The LED on the transmitter starts flashing red when it gets down to under a half hour of life left.

 

I guess I’ve pretty much always ignored the indicators on the receiver, but, really I never worried that much at all about it before as I always just charged the transmitters before a gig. The transmitter I’ve been using since the update is my newest one. I updated my other ones but haven’t had a chance to test them extensively yet.

[Apache_Dave]

I have two problems with this update - 

 

1. The unit worked fine when I last used it. Since the update the transmitter and receiver cannot connect - the peripheral led flashes white when the transmitter is on the guitar and nothing transmits.  I have done all the above suggestion sand have redone the 'update' to no avail. It looks like the firmware update has wrecked my G10. It's out of warrantee so I doubt anything can be done.

 

2. I only found out about the overheating problem when I looked at the website to check the manual for charging as I had not used the unit for a few months. My unit has been registered since I bought it in 2018 so why did I not get an email about a potentially devastating problem. This is negligent in the extreme. I am a UK citizen so don't stand an earthly but I sincerely hope that if a US owner has an overheating problem they sue the pants off Line 6. Sheer negligent incompetence.

 

( Obviously, I doubt this will get pass the moderator )

[PierM]

Today support proposed a free replacement of the transmitter, which I know already won’t change a thing, since they said an older battery may drop more than a new one, but we (me and brother) are getting exactly the same on 3 units, one of them it’s brand new. I think this is just BS, no offense. Anyway, I will try to get the replacement, hoping to receive a unit with the old firmware. If this will solve, we’ll do the same for the other 2 units, but I have very low expectation, after reading the @cruisinon2 experience with the new unit...

 

Just for info, this is their reply;

 

“The update reduces the charge capacity so that thereâs no chance of overcharge. The reduction applies to batteries in all states of previous capacity, so if an older or heavily used battery was already depleting, the update could result in shorter overall capacity.”

[meshubben]

@PierM Where have you bought yours ? I'd like a replacement too, but the support wants me to contact my reseller, which is closed for i-dont-know-how-long...

 

 

[PierM]

11 minutes ago, meshubben said:

@PierM Where have you bought yours ? I'd like a replacement too, but the support wants me to contact my reseller, which is closed for i-dont-know-how-long...

 

 

 

Thomann.

 

...But you can also contact your local distributor, giving them your ticket ID. For what I understand, from their message, doesnt have to be the same store where you bought it.

 

good luck.

 

 

[meshubben]

ok thanks for reply. I don't really know what to do... I stay persuaded that replacing the transmitter will not have any effect in battery life. :(

[phil_m]

1 hour ago, Apache_Dave said:

I have two problems with this update - 

 

1. The unit worked fine when I last used it. Since the update the transmitter and receiver cannot connect - the peripheral led flashes white when the transmitter is on the guitar and nothing transmits.  I have done all the above suggestion sand have redone the 'update' to no avail. It looks like the firmware update has wrecked my G10. It's out of warrantee so I doubt anything can be done.

 

2. I only found out about the overheating problem when I looked at the website to check the manual for charging as I had not used the unit for a few months. My unit has been registered since I bought it in 2018 so why did I not get an email about a potentially devastating problem. This is negligent in the extreme. I am a UK citizen so don't stand an earthly but I sincerely hope that if a US owner has an overheating problem they sue the pants off Line 6. Sheer negligent incompetence.

 

( Obviously, I doubt this will get pass the moderator )

 

If your unit was registered, you should have received an email from Line 6. I believe they even sent them out to the larger mailing list. It may have gone into your spam folder or something.

 

As far as the update, did you update both the receiver and the transmitter?

[bannock]

Same problem .Before the update i could play nearly 6 Hours, after only 1 1/2 - 2 hours!! I played a lot of gigs with G10, but now its useless for me!

But now, i ihink  :-)  the g10 had a standby mode, if you did not Play. before the update it went only in standby , when the volumeknob of the guitar was at Zero .after the update it goes in standby mode if you did not play for about some minutes…… 

LINE6 FIX IT!!!!!

[Jyda]

Count me in. My transmitter refuses to charge after the firmware updates so it's essentially bricked. I have open a support ticket, but this seems like a botched update.

[lungho]

I think at this point, we need a bit more transparency from Line 6 in regards to how they fixed this problem.  To me, this sounds like there should have been a recall instead of this quick fix.  As mine is out of warranty, I'm gonna have to find another wireless system from another company.  This stinks because I really like the sound quality of my G10 however the shortened battery life I'm now experiencing is a deal breaker.  I think the G10 will be the very last Line 6 product that I'll ever buy. 

 

Line 6 customer service is great.  This kind of structure they have to support...ugg...I'm just gonna say that I hope the support team makes good $$$ to deal with all the hardware and software developer's missteps (and typical user error) because they deserve it.

[Jyda]

3 hours ago, Jyda said:

Count me in. My transmitter refuses to charge after the firmware updates so it's essentially bricked. I have open a support ticket, but this seems like a botched update.

Of course, after three days of trying to get a charge by letting the transmitter sit in the unit for hours, seeing it go from blinking red to a constant black, unplugging and doing the same again several times, reinstalling firmware, leaving everything unplugged over night, plugging in and doing everything over again, and finally opening a ticket and bitching about it here, it now decided to work and now is fully charged. :) Haven't used it yet to see how long the charge holds, though.

[GSSArts]

I SEE! many are experiencing loss of full charge after installing the new updates. Mine shows full in the amp but when I take it and plug it in to my guitar, it drops to 2 bars then 1 bar very fast. Is 30 minutes all we are going to get for a Wireless... I'm thinking of going back to Mt AT> and I'm screwed on theRelay G10. Some one please notify me if you found a work around!!

G. Scott Smith

 

I wantded to add that I never throw out downloads and there is this file on my computer that says G10RX_1_1wuf. now I accidentally attached this file to give you a remote possibility to Retro your goofs to even thinking we should have updated!!

 

Yer On yer own with this one gang I don't guarantee lollipop and given as is with no warranty or responsibility.. GSS.

G10RX_1_1.wuf

[george_eijt]

On 3/14/2020 at 4:09 PM, xWildchildx said:

I had no issue since 1 year. Tonight as adviced I updated my G10 and base to latest versions (1.01 and 1.05) and some problems begins:

1) Once i put the transimetter into the base, it start blinking red for a while. Then begin blinking green as usual. Never happened before.

2) While charging (blinking green) sometimes it begins to blink red again for a while, then back to blinking green and so on.

3) After the full charge complete, solid green, I played the guitar for less than 2 hours and the transimetter started blinking red as discharged! Usually I can play a lot more time over 5 hours without any issue!!!

4) Put in charge again after red blinking during play...now after 30 minutes it's solid green. How is it possible??? It usually takes a couple of hours of charge after red blinking advice!

5) Now again, after couple of minutes solid green into the base, it begins blinking green AGAIN.

 

Please let me downgrade to 1.00 and 1.04 or send me a new replacement unit because the latest update broke something.

I really loved my G10, I'm so angry about this issue.

 

I have experienced exactly the same problems as you have. I will open a support ticket as recommended.

 

If there is any way to downgrade this firmware; please let me know!

[meshubben]

I have asked line6 support the old firmware files, but they have refused my request.

I have also asked if a firmware update is on the track, waiting for an answer at the moment.

 

[cruisinon2]

5 hours ago, meshubben said:

I have asked line6 support the old firmware files, but they have refused my request.

 

This is a given. Lawyers demanded a "fix" before some genius burned his house down plugging his transmitter in to charge and then leaving town for a week. The old firmware ain't coming back.

 

Quote

I have also asked if a firmware update is on the track, waiting for an answer at the moment.

 

 

I could be wrong (actually, I hope I'm wrong) but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

[cruisinon2]

2 minutes ago, godoq said:

All we can do is look for other products?

 

Well the jury is still out on my replacement unit... haven't fully tested total battery life yet... but I have a suspicion that this is what it's gonna gonna come down to.

[george_eijt]

14 hours ago, meshubben said:

I have asked line6 support the old firmware files, but they have refused my request.

I have also asked if a firmware update is on the track, waiting for an answer at the moment.

 

Well; let's keep our fingers crossed. It would be nice if Line 6 would let us know if they are researching the above problems. If they are, I am more than willing to test the (potential) new firmware.

[Ilya-V]

I just canceled my G10S order, luckily they didn't ship it for a week.

Nothing wrong with a cable at home or rehearsal, and I get to keep 250$.

[Apache_Dave]

Hi. I belatedly updated the transmitter as I found the instructions unclear and had only updated the receiver - I thought the G10T was a different unit as my transmitter is simply marked ‘G10’. Stupid me !

Since update the unit works but I’m only getting one to one and a half hours use. This is only home use but it is essentially now useless unless it is kept plugged in to power all the time. Past it’s warranty now so considering binning it unless a new firmware is produced. Meantime Line 6 should withdraw the G10 from sale.