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You can find in some articles that it's based on the Eminence Beta 12CX platform with a custom guitar cone and Celestion HF driver. The Mission Gemini is based on the same Beta 12CX and is only 110W RMS. So this does seem like a common approach vs the ultra-high power PA style FRFR.

I did. I understand the configuration. "Horn" was the wrong term. Should have said HF driver. I just pulled the manual for it. It looks like there are some subcategory modes of Flat Mode called LF that disables the HF driver, potentially enabling a raw speaker IR application.

Man, I'm hoping we can turn the horn off ourselves in Helix and load our own raw speaker IR's. I have some ideas ;)

The Faital Pro 12HX230 does look like a much better speaker than the Eminence Beta 12CX according to the specs. Could be used for bass too I bet. That's the one wish I had for my FRFR solution that I don't think Powercab can fill. Accugroove has an FRFR solution that can play double duty, but it's not coaxial. What did you use for eq/crossover DSP and amplification?

If you are thinking the Alto route, consider the Headrush FRFR-112. Basically the same as the Alto TS312 and same price, but true guitar FRFR voicing/DSP. I've read others saying that there is a difference.

Cool to hear you went down the Beta 12CX road and thanks for sharing your learnings. I looked at the specs/frequency response curves on the Eminence site and thought it wasn't quite flat, but could be a good economical solution. I thought maybe I could deal with it with and active bi-amp approach using one of those Crown amps with active digital eq and crossover per channel instead of the Eminence passive crossover. I was reading about the Powercab and Line 6 stated the speaker was a modified cone Beta 12CX and custom Celestion horn. Maybe the stock Beta 12CX frequency response has been addressed and flattened with both the physical speaker mods and DSP. This raises my hopes that the L6 Powercab will be n improved solution over the Mission Gemini.

Well, I'm gonna have to pre-recommend the Line 6 Powercab. Just pre-ordered one. I've been fighting going to FRFR for two years now. This is my first FRFR solution outside of studio monitors. It's the only FRFR cab with a speaker model safety net built in, which might be a good fall back if I don't like FRFR. I do need full range regardless because of my Variax. I like the fact that the IRs and cab modeling is all in the speaker. I've been using my power amp in of my Line 6 Spider Valve amps with no cab model blocks. I shouldn't have to change my presets to go back and forth between rigs. I was already sold on the coaxial speaker Eminence Beta 12 CX concept with Mission Gemini and had decided that would be my solution when I pulled the FRFR trigger. Glad I waited. I think Line 6 just 1up'd it.

Wow. Nice workflows and logic. Thanks for that info. While I'm trying to setup more of a static home studio with multiple digital devices connected to PC via USB (Helix, e-drums, keyboard controller, etc.), you gave me some good ideas.

Just curious...I see you have your Roland TD-15k plugged into Helix 1/4" returns. What drive you to do that vs USB to your computer? Sound? Stability? Convenience? I'm planning on unpacking my old Alesis DM10 set and USB to PC to trigger Superior Drummer 3 and would be interested in your experience too. Wondering if there are any PC USB setting or potential issues having Helix and DM10 drums both coming in on USB at the same time.

Oh, but don't put too much faith in the default block settings when you first assign them. Example...the Mesa Dual Recto model defaults are not how I dime in my real Recto. one if the first things I tried when I got Helix a couple of years ago was building a new patch from scratch with the Recto model and a single Recto 412 cab model. I thought it didn't sound anything like my real Recto rig and almost returned my Helix. Glad I dug in a little further than the block defaults.

Sorry, I missed this chat about impedence between you two. I'm looking at the forum in my phone. I'll still check out the preset later though. I'm still curious.

Dude, I just listened to that MP3. Something is definitely wrong. I'll check out the preset you posted when I get home on both my physical Helix floor and Native. To me, it sounds like an impedence issue. Helix is supposed to model the impedence of the virtual effcts and amp blocks as they feed into one another. Wonder if there is a bug. Did you over ride the global impedence setting from Auto? Make any other impedance changes? I never use the Helix Vermin model, but have a 90s Rat.

Back to the Mashall amp nastiness... While I dont use it normally, I have tried Helix with my Mesa Stiletto (Marshall clone) when I was experimenting. It is certainly harsh with Helix, especially with my Mesa Black Shadow open back 112 cab (Celestion GT-75 modified I think). Super bright and harsh. Things that made it better... - Helix preamp only models - Turn the presence down on the real amp - Using my Celstion V30 cab (darker speaker) For my tastes, I found Helix more agreeable with my 6L6 based amps and V30 speakers in general.

Could play double duty as an FRFR solution for Helix too. You'd certainly have a coversation piece. Maybe we should put the request on Idea Scale to model the VocoPro SCART effect ;) Maybe they could name it SHART.

Made my day man. Thanks for the post!

Just curious about what style tones are the most difficult for you with Helix. Clean and mid gain tones from Helix were easier for me with just stock cabs. High gain tones from Helix were much tougher and required me to dig into IR's.

Hello Helix friends, I made a set of Heavy 412 IR's for my own use and thought I would share with y'all. I created and tweaked them specifically for the higher gain Helix amps (Mesa, Engl, Bogner, Peavey, Soldano, etc.). https://www.dropbox.com/sh/aiz98594dds5i51/AAB1-NcuUKjTNBZsVN3QOo-ua?dl=0 Heavy412Creamy.wav Heavy412Edge.wav Heavy412Sizzle.wav Heavy412Smooth.wav Heavy412Thump.wav

This is very cool. I used and maintained Sonar Platinum. The new Cakewalk looks the same. It even maintained shortcuts and previews to all of my old projects.

Thanks! Guess I was judging the by the books by the covers and too lazy to scroll down to the specs on each one ;) The Headrush really is enticing at $299.

For me, a FR speaker horn really comes into play for synth and octave effects, and the acoustic and reso models on my Variax. IMO, the need for the horn/tweeter drops off for traditional electric guitar/amp/cab sounds (less than 8kHz to 10kHz). XiTone used to make an FRFR cab with an Eminence Beta 12LTA (Whizzer cone speaker), with no horn or tweeter. This eliminated the need for the crossover or DSP. Some old EA bass cabs have also taken advantage of whizzer cones on a woofer for extended upper range without a horn. So I believe your questioning the need of the horn for guitar tones is somewhat valid. Looking Eminence Beta 12LTA specs and frequency response curve, the speaker is full range, and pretty flat response to about 8kHz, then starts to roll off. It's not as flat as the DSP-enabled, horn loaded cabs, but I would say it's in the ballpark. I've read some articles about guitarists retro-fitting traditional guitar cabs with this speaker and getting good FRFR-ish results with just a solid state amp. https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_12LTA.pdf

Oops, sorry. Looks like there was another thread related to this, although the title is vague.

I was searching the web for FRFR cabinet to see what's new, and the Headrush FRFR-112 popped up. I clicked the link, looked at it and thought it sure did look like the Alto TS212. I went and looked at the Alto, and sure enough, they look identical. Both are $299 and 2000W as well. Not judging at all as there are plenty of Alto users here. But I wonder if they are truly identical? $299 is certainly a better price point for me either way. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FRFR112--headrush-frfr-112-2000-watt-1x12-inch-powered-guitar-cabinet?gclid=Cj0KCQjwtOLVBRCZARIsADPLtJ1KHimU_brb4njgQHO2jDawAApsCkoyoq8h-R4CZGgODgdTdnKv23saAv--EALw_wcB https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/alto-truesonic-ts212-12-2-way-powered-speaker

Yeah, I agree. To expect Helix to treat two parts of one block separately is probably unreasonable. I'll keep em separated :)

I was jamming to some tracks the last couple of days, and a lot of the artists I am into (Alter Bridge, Evanescence, etc.) have a full sound with doubled guitar tracks. I woke up this morning on a mission to do this for myself. Using Evanescence Going Under as a go-by, I messed around with dual signal paths with delays, phasing, etc. I just wasn't getting what I wanted. It just didn't feel or sound like true double-tracked guitar. Then I though about my poor, lonely Variax JTV-59. I setup a Helix preset, taking advantage of the ever-so-slight time/phase difference between Variax Mags and Models, each as an input on separate, but identical signal paths. This was exactly what I was going for! Now I'm sure the preset masters Line 6, Glenn D., Fremen, etc. probably have this in their packs somewhere, but I wanted to do this for myself. This is one take with only footswitch Snapshots in the preset. Helix Preset on Custom Tone using Helix Cabs, no IR's https://line6.com/customtone/tone/3755436/ https://www.dropbox.com/s/3jwpnf9687kf9sf/Hlx Vax Dbl Trk.JPG?dl=0 Here is a simple, dry scratch guitar track (with a few oops's) of Evanescence Going Under just to get the idea. Verse - Variax Mags signal Path Chorus - Variax Mags & Variax Model paths panned L & R Solo - Variax Mags & Variax Model paths panned L & R, wah toe switch engages both wahs and Teemah! distortion blocks on both paths.

Yep.