I'm a little disappointed with the PV Panama Amp Head

[talonmm]

I'm a little disappointed with the PV Panama Amp Head

 

I couldn't wait to get the packs and especially the Peavey Van Halen head.  Although I never tried the Peavey version, the EVH 5150 amp is an amazing amp (although I can't understand why at that price tag, there is no reverb).

 

I purchased the packs and played with the PV Panama offering.  Using one head and then two heads in stereo I came to the same problem:  With the drive all the way up I can't get enough distortion to sound like the real amp.

 

I was disappointed at first, since I was forced to bring in and use one of the hd500x existing distortion pedals in my setup.

 

However, when I compared my new finished PV sound to my older, existing Van Halen settings I realized that the new model sounded clearer and closer to the old Van Halen sound I'm after.

 

I'd still like to know if anyone had the same challenge and figured out the best way to get the line 6 PV Panama to produce more distortion, just like the real amp does.

 

Yes, I realize every guitar and room is different - I am using a couple of different guitars, all with high-end pickups and no matter what I use, there is not enough distortion without the help of an fx.  Also, I do keep my drive on the unit relatively low so that I can play acoustic-sounding selections easily and would hate to change that by turning up the drive knob on the physical unit.

 

Thanks for any assistance and guidance!

 

[Palico]

Also, I do keep my drive on the unit relatively low so that I can play acoustic-sounding selections easily and would hate to change that by turning up the drive knob on the physical unit.

 

 

Not sure which Drive you mean here? If you have the "Drive" on the amp model low it will not produce much distortion. That is true for all of them.  Of course with a overdrive or distortion pedal you can still get some great tones.

 

Did you check the Master in the DEP parameters, honestly don't remember the default on it. But that has effect as well. I played with this one last night a bit and to my ears it was not as much gain as the X3 model of the 5150 but still had a lot. I thought it did have excellent note definition. It was not exactly what I had hope for with on my setup, but still a one I'll likely use, even if I have push the pre amp pretty hard with a overdrive on the mags on my JTV.

[phil_m]

 

Yes, I realize every guitar and room is different - I am using a couple of different guitars, all with high-end pickups and no matter what I use, there is not enough distortion without the help of an fx.  Also, I do keep my drive on the unit relatively low so that I can play acoustic-sounding selections easily and would hate to change that by turning up the drive knob on the physical unit.

 

 

I'm confused as to what you're saying hear regarding the drive knob. The actual position of the physical drive knob is irrelevant to the drive parameter in your preset (well, mostly - it the physical knob controls the virtual parameter, but the virtual parameter doesn't always reflect the position of the real knob). So where you have that knob physically set on the unit doesn't limit the amount of drive in any particular preset.

[talonmm]

Thanks for the quick replies.  Sorry I was not clearer, although I use it daily, I am a novice when it comes to the HD500x.

 

When going to the amp section and choosing the PV amp, you see knobs and settings such as "Drive", "Bass", "Treble", etc.

 

I turned up "Drive" as far as it goes.  I also played with the "CH VOL" and "E.R." knobs but they did not seem to increase the distortion

 

I did refer in my original post to the "drive" knob on the outside of the unit - I just wanted to explain that I keep that fairly low. 

 

When the first poster mentioned "Did you check the Master in the DEP parameters" I believe I played with those settings too and they did not seem to add extra drive. 

 

I have no idea with the third and final section does in the amp section.  That section shows "DT" and has three settings:  Class, Topology, and mode.  Playing with those settings seemed to not affect the sound.

 

I also played with various cabinets and mics.  They seemed to change the sound dramatically, however, they did not produce additional distortion.

 

The first poster also wrote "I thought it did have excellent note definition.".  Yes!, I noticed that too, and felt that was the main reason why it sounded superior to my original early Van Halen tone I had made a while back.

 

Any thoughts if I need to set up the amp differently to produce more distortion?

[Palico]

hmmm I guess I would have to hear you setup to figured that one out. As phil_m pointed out the physical drive knob position is meaningless unless you move it. It seem to have pretty decent amount of distrotion for me when I have the amp model drive dimed, but I supposed everyones idea of how much to expect could be different. 

 

How is you guitar volume knob set?  or a volume pedal if in front of the amp.  If set low most good amps will clean up (lower distrotion) considerbly.

 

Are you using the normal model or the "pre" model?  The "pre" models are setup for use with the DT series  amplifers over the L6 link.  The one without the "pre" on the end would be what to use with most other setups.

 

The Topology, class etc... are setting if you using the L6 Link with a DT amp.  It changes the physical tube configuration on those amps. 

[talonmm]

How is you guitar volume knob set?  or a volume pedal if in front of the amp.  If set low most good amps will clean up (lower distrotion) considerbly.

 

Are you using the normal model or the "pre" model?  The "pre" models are setup for use with the DT series  amplifers over the L6 link.  The one without the "pre" on the end would be what to use with most other setups.

 

The Topology, class etc... are setting if you using the L6 Link with a DT amp.  It changes the physical tube configuration on those amps. 

 

all guitar knobs are set on 10. no vol. pedal.

 

I am not sure if I used the pre model.  I thought I only saw one PV model.  Are there two models?

[Palico]

all guitar knobs are set on 10. no vol. pedal.

 

I am not sure if I used the pre model.  I thought I only saw one PV model.  Are there two models?

 

Yes the is a "pre" model and normal one on that one. Althought still not sure if that will help.

[talonmm]

Yes the is a "pre" model and normal one on that one. Althought still not sure if that will help.

 

are they under the amps section?  Are they called by the same names? 

[Palico]

are they under the amps section?  Are they called by the same names? 

 

The "pre" entries come after the standard ones.  They are the same but the name as "pre" on the end.

[talonmm]

The "pre" entries come after the standard ones.  They are the same but the name as "pre" on the end.

 

Oh, I see,  I will check it out this evening and see if it makes a diference.

 

Thanks!

 

If Palico does not think it will help and I am maxed out, any othe sugestions to add more distortion?

[maxnew40]

Put a tube screamer in front of the amp with no drive and just use the volume of the tube screamer to goose the front end of the amp. It works wonders for a lot of the amps.

 

-Max

[Palico]

Oh, I see,  I will check it out this evening and see if it makes a diference.

 

Thanks!

 

If Palico does not think it will help and I am maxed out, any othe sugestions to add more distortion?

 

Just to clarify. The point is unless you using L6 Link to a DT amp you DON"T want to use the "Pre" ones.

[pillowhead4000]

I would also check that you do not have the input pad engaged as that will make a difference too. Check your using the full model, that could also increase the available distortion. Let us know if you sus it. Also if you have the time post a clip!  

[cruisinon2]

 

I turned up "Drive" as far as it goes.  I also played with the "CH VOL" and "E.R." knobs but they did not seem to increase the distortion

 

 

At the risk of alienating the "there's no such thing as too much distortion" crowd, this may be why you're having trouble getting a sound that you like...from this, or any other amp. At some point it just becomes mud, and your guitar will get lost in the mix.

[maxnew40]

I had heard that peavey amp described as sounding a like a can of bees. I would expect that it would have had a decent amount of gain on tap.

 

-Max

[Digital_Igloo]

I'm 90% sure PV Panama was based on the original block logo 5150 (considered by many to be the best-sounding). If you're used to playing newer revs, it may feel a bit unfamiliar.

[cruisinon2]

I had heard that peavey amp described as sounding a like a can of bees. I would expect that it would have had a decent amount of gain on tap.

 

-Max

New from Peavey, the Crunchmaster 2000! 3 gain settings: Cuisinart, wood-chipper, and off-shore oil rig drill. Gain, baby...GAIN!!!!

[medievil1]

another thing to check..make sure the effects pedal is all the way toe down...some presets have the pedal set as volume. Ran across that a few times for sure...you think something is wrong and figure out the pedal isn't toe down and is dropping volume

[meambobbo]

Using a screamer as a volume boost isnt tone neutral. The screamer will cut some high end and lots of low end, generally used to "tighten up" flubby low end with high gain. You can use a neutral setting studio or parametric eq instead - boosting gain is a clean boost.

 

Afaik, the block letter 5150 is only different from the non block letter by having a different brand of power tubes, but an identical circuit to later 5150 and 6505 amps. Should have plenty gain on tap. Can you post a clip? Thats the only way we can know what youre experiencing. Also what kind of guitar/pickups, whats your pad setting, whats input 1/2 set to, and where is the amp block placed in the signal chain?

[davidb7170]

Also placement of the volume pedal block before or after the amp block makes a huge difference.

 

Dave

[NucleusX]

+1 on the Tube Screamer suggestion (front-ending the 5150), if your trying to summon a

more saturated high-gain distortion for metal. Its a staple config for alotta metal guitarists.

[talonmm]

Thanks everyone for your help and all the suggestions.

 

I realized that I had chosen the amp with the pre-amp designation.  I changed to the regular amp and the sound still lacked enough drive.  In fact, it sounds the same.

 

Putting a distortion device early in the chain seemed to help a lot.

 

Bottom line - the new sound is a much better Van Halen - 1st album sound than I originally had, and the new tone with the PV amp is very "clear" but the PV amp is not making the sound without help from a distortion pedal.

 

I will check on the volume pedal but I believe there are no volume pedals in my setup.

 

The PV amp alone, with the gain turned up 100% and even slightly less than 100% produces a "rolling-stones" type or "blues" type overdrive - a great sound but far from a Van halen or heavy metal sound.

 

I am using gibson burstbuckers.

 

I will try to record something in a day or 2.

 

Last thing:  can someone please clarify what "I would also check that you do not have the input pad engaged as that will make a difference too." means?

 

Is that the two inputs in the upper left part of the screen, that say Input 1 and 2?

 

Thanks everyone!

 

Michael Borkan
Talon Mailing & Marketing
561 Acorn Street, Suite R
Deer Park, NY 11729

 

email: mb@talon-mailing.com
Ph: 631-667-5500 x11    Fax: 631-667-0576
www.talon-mailing.com

[Palico]

Is that the two inputs in the upper left part of the screen, that say Input 1 and 2?

 

The "Pad" is a swtich on the Physical board itself, pretty sure it right below the guitar input on the board itself.  If you have the Pad on it lowers the input from the guitar itself. Typically used for very high output sources where they could cause clipping of the A/D converter.

[talonmm]

I tried all the suggestions here and none of them work.

 

I noticed line6 placed a video in this forum, and they show the heavy metal amps.  I felt in their example that the PV 5150 amp sounded les distorted than the real life amp.

 

I was able to get a sound that is increadible with the line 6 PV 5150, but to do so, I added a distortion fx in my set up.  My finished tone sounds much better than any early Van halen tone I was able to download and modify so I am very pleased.

 

I'm just not sure why the line 6 model does not sound more like the amp I heard recently at a giutar store. 

 

Thanks again to everyone that helped - I'm glad line 6 came out with these amps and look forward to playing with the other amps and perfecting new tones.

[DarrellM5]

IMHO the 5150 PRE through the DT25 rocks. I'm really lovin' it with my JTV69 and my PRS. I'm planning on trying a few more guitars tomorrow. This is just a blank patch, no effects, and tweaking the amp and cab parameters. Also, the Big Bottom sounds really good.

[joel_brown]

And you don't need to use the L6 link to use the Pre versions.  I use them with a Marshall amp and cab just fine.

[JTSC777]

Interesting thread.I am not a Van halen fan nor do I play or use Peavey 5150 amps.I do however use a real 1982 JCM800 so I know a little about heavier tube tones.Having covered a few VH tunes in my years of cover bands what I find most interesting about EVHs amp tone is that it is not that distorted.It is pretty clean compared to other Sabbath etc... tones.I am pretty sure that he gets his tone by playing really loud. Most of us cant do that in a club or typical venue.I can remember in my younger years goosing up my amps volume,not distortion to play VH tunes.I would bet that this Panama HD model would sound great through a tube power section into a 4x12 cab turned up real loud.Unfortunately most of us are forced to play at anemic volumes most of the time and guitar amps are made to be played loud. I know my old L6 Flextone 1st generation amp sounded way better when I turned it way up.

 

just a few thoughts on this subject

 

I hope you get it figured out

[radatats]

volume = magic.

[Palico]

And you don't need to use the L6 link to use the Pre versions.  I use them with a Marshall amp and cab just fine.

 

True, but the "Pre" version for just the pre-amp modelling of the amp in question. But as always there are really no rules when it comes to which to use where, brought it up just because of intented usage. But what ever makes it work for each is perfectly valid.

[RenzoGo]

got mine 55 % drive and with the screamer at minnimum ....it is insane

[bjnette]

To me the gain needs to be about 40%. It just feels undefined and unpleasant above 50% or so.

Will try it with a screamer

[duncann]

I use it with the gain somewhere between 25% and 30%. No distortion before it, only a tube comp with 55% threshold and 0% level.

[BillBee]

That tube comp is like the "Ms. Dash" of seasoning for the HD and I like a TS with no drive in front to kick up the volume without increasing amp gain.

[jeremybnz]

Something must be wrong surely, how much gain do you need????? Is the Pad switch by the expression pedal turned on for example?

[BillBee]

I was doing the VH thing last night and a TS (gain ~ 45-50%) driving the PV (gain ~ 50%) is a lot of distortion - EQs and the Red Comp too btw. Though TBH I really preferred the Variac'd Plexi with the Brit T-75 cab and condenser mic (IIRC the 67).

[BBD_123]

 

I'm a little disappointed with the PV Panama Amp Head

 

 

Something's not right. I use the Line 6 PV (full model, not pre only) with various pickups including EVH Frankenstein, EVH Wolfgang, Seymour Duncan JB, Dimarzio Super Distortion and Duncan Distortion. Of these, the vintage hot EVH Frankenstein is probably closest to a Burstbucker (unless it is the Pro) and there's plenty of distortion with Drive at ~70 (too much, actually) and Master about 50%. And that's with nothing in front of the amp - no tube screamer or other gain boost. I like a fairly bright, tight cab with it (eg. 4x12 Hiway) and the 57 on axis mic but YMMV.

 

Do you know what type of Burstbuckers you are playing (what year, model Gibson are you playing?).