FRFR ?

[kpsion]

Ok great , i used it and don't remeber if i was in studio mode or combo/stack

 

Information comes from line6 even Meeambobo site state GEQ is unavailable in studio mode.

 

But that a great news/confirmation for me !!

 

I 'm about to receive my EV Zlx12p  and this GEQ can help

[DunedinDragon]

There may have been some confusion on this at some point.  I went back and reviewed the v2.62 release notes from Line 6 and the only limitation cited was that it wouldn't work with the L6 Link output due to it's flexible routing.  Nothing at all mentioned about Studio/Direct.

[Old-Rocker]

Hi,Dunedin Dragon.Thanks for sticking with me on this.

I'm trying to grasp why i'm having such a hard time making the Amp Models sound good through our PA,when at the same time i know it plays back recordings of all sorts,really well.

So in view of this have been writing a response which was turning into a book,but luckily as i was righting,i remembered a saying from one of my former lives.

now at the same time you read this bear in mind that we all blame somebody else for our shortcomings(specially me :) )so,this is my excuse for my miserable failings.

"if you put lollipop in you get lollipop out"

I'm saying this very tongue in cheek,but right now,it's my excuse.I'll now await the very deserved flack. :ph34r:

[Matt_Brown]

The sound is very dependant on what kit you are using. We have been using our pub set up to rehearse recently - Behringer air mixer and Mackie Thumps - and I have been getting quite a good sound. All that time set up in my dining room was with it!

 

However this week we got lazy and only took the mixer to rehearse and used the power amp and speakers at the studio. Straight back to 'angry bee'!! The speakers there are well used of course but probably better quality than the Thumps.

 

Spent the while time fighting the urge to fiddle. But then the patches will sound bad through our system. Ho hum....

[cruisinon2]

There may have been some confusion on this at some point. I went back and reviewed the v2.62 release notes from Line 6 and the only limitation cited was that it wouldn't work with the L6 Link output due to it's flexible routing. Nothing at all mentioned about Studio/Direct.

You're right, it works just fine in studio/direct mode. The whole point of having an FRFR rig is to run in studio/direct mode to take advantage of the full amp models...to say nothing of acoustic tones if you're a Variax player. There would be no point in investing in an FRFR speaker(s) if you're just going to try and turn the thing back into a regular guitar cabinet with another heavily EQed output mode. It's bad enough you can't use global EQ with L6 Link, but at least that has a reason....eliminating it's use from studio/direct mode would have been absurd.

[cruisinon2]

Hi,Dunedin Dragon.Thanks for sticking with me on this.

I'm trying to grasp why i'm having such a hard time making the Amp Models sound good through our PA,when at the same time i know it plays back recordings of all sorts,really well.

So in view of this have been writing a response which was turning into a book,but luckily as i was righting,i remembered a saying from one of my former lives.

now at the same time you read this bear in mind that we all blame somebody else for our shortcomings(specially me :) )so,this is my excuse for my miserable failings.

"if you put lollipop in you get lollipop out"

I'm saying this very tongue in cheek,but right now,it's my excuse.I'll now await the very deserved flack. :ph34r:

Too much EQ manipulation isn't gonna help your cause either. I don't find the need to use the different EQs very often. Most of my patches don't use any at all. I do use the global EQ to roll of some of the fizzy high-end, and the low-cut filter in the cab parameters is in use on almost every patch I have, but that's about it. You can change your tone a great deal by experimenting with different cab and mic combinations...I find those, plus each model's native tone controls is usually sufficient to dial everything in.

[DunedinDragon]

Old-Rocker,

 

I'm just as perplexed as you on why you're struggling so much.  I think of my rig setup as pretty simple.  Direct/studio Out setting in global settings, and line setting on the 1/4" out on the POD unit itself.  I come from the L/Mono 1/4" output on the POD to the DXR12 powered monitor which is set completely flat with volume set at 50%.  XLR out to the mixing board channel which is gain staged appropriately and EQ'd flat then routed along with all other channels to the QSC KW181 subs then out of the sub up to the KLA12 Line array in a serial fashion.  The KW181 subs are set so that they only pass the frequencies above 100hz to the line array.  The sound I get from the KLA12's is virtually identical to what I get coming out of the DXR12 monitor.

 

Aside from the GEQ settings I mentioned before I use the standard set of amps (not the pre-amp versions) and adjust the tone controls, drive and channel volume in a normal way.  I really don't do a lot with EQ on my patches most of the time.  In some cases of rock tones rather than depend on the amp's drive setting I'll add just a touch of drive on the amp and use an overdrive effect to get a bit more control over the sound.  I generally use the Ranger Booster effect for leads.  Other than that most of my patches are pretty much off-the-shelf amp models with some reverb/delay and maybe some compression on some of them.  Nothing really outrageous or spectacular in terms of the signal path on most of my patches.  Typically I run the master volume on the POD at around 4 1/2 which is a good match to everyone else in terms of stage volume.

 

That's really about all I can tell you about my setup and it works flawlessly.  Hope some of the information helps.

[silverhead]

@Old-Rocker:

 

I confess I haven't read this whole thread so forgive me if I am being redundant or missing the point.

 

It's possible that the struggles you are having are based on false expectations. There is a real difference to be expected in the sound of the amp in the room vs. the sound of FRFR, being a mic'd amp in the audience or control room/studio. FRFR is designed to deliver the sound an audience hears when your amp is mic'd and sent through the PA system, or the sound the recording engineer hears in the control room. It will not, and shouldn't be expected to, deliver the sound that a guitarist hears directly from his amp on stage or in rehearsal.

 

There is no FRFR replacement for that sound of a physical amp/cab pushing all that air in your face. If that's what you are trying to reproduce you will be forever struggling.

[Smashcraaft]

@Old-Rocker:

I confess I haven't read this whole thread so forgive me if I am being redundant or missing the point.

It's possible that the struggles you are having are based on false expectations. There is a real difference to be expected in the sound of the amp in the room vs. the sound of FRFR, being a mic'd amp in the audience or control room/studio. FRFR is designed to deliver the sound an audience hears when your amp is mic'd and sent through the PA system, or the sound the recording engineer hears in the control room. It will not, and shouldn't be expected to, deliver the sound that a guitarist hears directly from his amp on stage or in rehearsal.

There is no FRFR replacement for that sound of a physical amp/cab pushing all that air in your face. If that's what you are trying to reproduce you will be forever struggling.

I'm really sure, that's the point. It took over a month for me to realize, that I DO NOT work on my sound than much more on my sound placed in the sound of the bands-mix which is delivered to the room by pa. And I have to force me to remember every single day again.

[Brazzy]

@Old-Rocker:

 

I confess I haven't read this whole thread so forgive me if I am being redundant or missing the point.

 

It's possible that the struggles you are having are based on false expectations. There is a real difference to be expected in the sound of the amp in the room vs. the sound of FRFR, being a mic'd amp in the audience or control room/studio. FRFR is designed to deliver the sound an audience hears when your amp is mic'd and sent through the PA system, or the sound the recording engineer hears in the control room. It will not, and shouldn't be expected to, deliver the sound that a guitarist hears directly from his amp on stage or in rehearsal.

 

There is no FRFR replacement for that sound of a physical amp/cab pushing all that air in your face. If that's what you are trying to reproduce you will be forever struggling.

 

Makes sense to me, even if you missed the point you made another good point worth knowing.

[mcbeddall]

If dunedindragon is using mostly the same gear I'd beg him to share a couple of patches with you

If they sound closer to what you expect then it's game on and you know the results can be achieved

If it still sounds bad maybe FrFr is just not for you

[Old-Rocker]

Guys,thanks.Once again lots of good points & advice,very good point silverhead,i'm going to try & track down somebody who's using FRFR,for their on-stage sound,so i have some idea what to expect.

Dunedin Dragon.I have no idea what i'm getting wrong,but somethings up,maybe silverhead is right & i just have no idea what i'm listening for,although i still think it should sound good,even if it's not what i expect.

[kpsion]

Hi guys

 

I've seen in this post (or maybe another one in the forum)  youtube video from a live band with a direct pod to pa sound, nice rock sound.

 

 

Does anyone have a metal video of this configuration or withh an FRFR rig in situtation ?  Just to have a feeback on result ?

[Matt_Brown]

Shame Manchester and London are so far apart. I'd be happy to share with you OR!

[Old-Rocker]

Hi,again,i've decided to step back from the FRFR trials for a while,before i have a breakdown :) .

I've been talking to our old Audio/Electronics engineer,we've had some thoughts & kicked a few ideas/opinions around & it's got his interest so he's going to do some measuring & have a think about maybe building a cab to suit it,but he's like me old & slow,so in the meantime i'm going to use the Orange with 500X drives etc & i'm going to start learning about how to use effects(delays etc)so i'll be popping up somewhere on the Forum mithering about that,just not sure which section.

Genuine thanks for all the advice/opinions/expertice i've been given in this thread.

I'll sign off by saying i still don't understand why i'm struggling with the Amp Models,i still think i should just be able to take a given model,plug it into a decent FRFR speaker & get a usable sound(with a mimimum of tweaking),like i could with the Amp the Model is replicating.

Cheers,Old-Rocker.(Very :D )

[pianoguyy]

If you are giving up on FRFR for now, the issue later on is going to be: 

 

If you design patches using a guitar amp, they are going to sound different when you get to the studio/stage or decide on an FRFR. 

And no, changing the GEQ or output setting is not going to make them sound the same. 

 

 

A flat system (FRFR, keyboard amp, acoustic amp, studio monitor) is your best bet so that it will always sound the same on various systems. Hell, a home stereo could work -- as long as it is not a Wal-Mart "stereo in a box" type of deal.

Without spending a lot of money, a $20 set of computer speakers could get you by with a flat sound. 

[cruisinon2]

Hi,again,i've decided to step back from the FRFR trials for a while,before i have a breakdown :) .

I've been talking to our old Audio/Electronics engineer,we've had some thoughts & kicked a few ideas/opinions around & it's got his interest so he's going to do some measuring & have a think about maybe building a cab to suit it,but he's like me old & slow,so in the meantime i'm going to use the Orange with 500X drives etc & i'm going to start learning about how to use effects(delays etc)so i'll be popping up somewhere on the Forum mithering about that,just not sure which section.

Genuine thanks for all the advice/opinions/expertice i've been given in this thread.

I'll sign off by saying i still don't understand why i'm struggling with the Amp Models,i still think i should just be able to take a given model,plug it into a decent FRFR speaker & get a usable sound(with a mimimum of tweaking),like i could with the Amp the Model is replicating.

Cheers,Old-Rocker.(Very :D )

I wouldn't give up just yet. Took me quite a while to get comfy with the 500X. There's a lot going on in there. Cab and mic options will do more for you than EQ...especially the cabs. Don't think that you're stuck using whatever cab a given amp model defaults to...mix and match. You'll be surprised what you can come up with.

[Old-Rocker]

H,Pianoguyy.Further back in the thread,i did talk about putting the 500X through my hi-fi(stereo)system,in fact it was when i played 500X through my hi-fi, it sounded so bad useing the Amp Models,that it made the decision for me to give it a rest for awhile.

I'm not one to give glowing accounts of my possesions,but the hi-fi is probably as near to a Flat Response playback system you would find in a home stereo,even if i do say so myself :) .

With reference to useing the 500X through the Orange,i use it virtually as a Pedal board,j'm just useing it in 8 pedal(what i call manual mode),with a mild gate 3 levels of the L6 drive & mild compressor & a dealay & reverb(which i have no clue how to set up) :D & a thing called a Script Phase & 1 amp FULL AMP MODEL,that i can just switch on & off,like the other pedals,i've set the output to studio direct & the amp/line switch set to Amp,i'm glad i typed this i've just remembered i've left the Global EQ switched on,needs to be off. :) .

So i'm not doing any real patch building,till i find what i'm doing wrong with my FRFR attempts.

Cheers,thanks for posting.

[BillBee]

Here is a good question: What physical characteristics are different between a guitar cab and a FRFR cab? Tweeter, sub, materials?  I just haven't sat down and put in a lot of time yet.

 

As far a guitar cabs go I have found the best response from SS amp, a 2x12 open back with GT1275s. Real crisp. A V30 in a 1x12 closed back was OK with a SS power amp but sparkled with a small 5w tube head in front.

 

That darn rabbit hole, eh? :)

 

-B

[DunedinDragon]

The obvious physical differences between a guitar cab and FRFR speaker is the speaker and horn/tweeter setup in a sealed enclosure with oftentimes some form of acoustic channeling typically for better response and better control over the sound cone being projected.  But that really doesn't tell the whole story.  Most of what makes the difference is the power amp that's part of the FRFR speaker which is usually a class-D amp that incorporates a certain amount of digital signal processing to aid in the full-range flat-response characteristics of the output.  To get a much more real-world idea play an MP3 through a guitar amp then play the same thing through an upper end powered studio or stage monitor and the difference in sound should be quite obvious.

 

Guitar cabinets and speakers are pretty rudimentary designs especially when compared to current FRFR designs used in studio monitors or stage monitors.  That's because guitar or bass cabinets aren't expected to reproduce the sonic range of any signal other than an amplified guitar or bass signal that gets pushed through them, so they don't really require a lot of sophistication in their design.

[cruisinon2]

so they don't really require a lot of sophistication in their design.

Amen. 4 pieces of plywood, a back panel that's usually press board, speakers, a handful of screws, and about 4 yards of Tolex. They're about as unsophisticated as it gets...wouldn't surprise me if some cabs are entirely press board.

 

I recently refinished a 4x12 Marshall 25th Anniversary cabinet. Sanding off 30 year-old glue is not fun ;). Considering that I had never done it before, and was just following a tutorial I found online, it turned out rather well. Looks brand new. Nothing magical inside, though. Speakers and a brace in the middle.

[DunedinDragon]

I can't imagine what amps you're talking about leisure, but the internal class D amp circuits we're referring to in reference to FRFR powered speakers are custom designed  with intelligent DSP processing to match the specific characteristics of the enclosure and custom speaker/horn arrangement.  I think you're talking apples to oranges.  Pretty much the days of separate unpowered speakers driven by an external general use power amp as applied to live sound reinforcement was left behind about a decade ago.  It's still out there but it's a tiny fraction of the market as it really can't compete price-wise or performance-wise with the integrated powered speakers.

[Old-Rocker]

As I stated in an earlier post, I've gotten fantastic sounds with a great big Carver home stereo amp, and a big pair of Klipsh La' Scala stereo speakers before. But there's a hell of an impedance mismatch that you have to deal with when interfacing with home stereo type gear. Without dealing with that mismatch I imagine it would sound like dookey.

 

I would recommend walking away from it for a bit. But continue to work on it on the side, while playing what you're comfortable with for now. When you get to playing around and come up w/ a good tone or two on it, then try to incorporate it more. Probably do better when having fun with it, and not under pressure to make it work. I would also continue to compare it to your orange cab etc. as that seems to be the sound you're trying to dial in.

You'll get it!

Aha,had a pair of La'Scalas for a while used them with an Audio Research Pre(SP8)& a big Musical Fidelity A 470,loved them & an Oracle turnable,the good old days :) .

With the system i have now i din't think i have an impedance issue(but i'll check it out),thanks.

I will keep at the FRFR,i don't want to keep the Orange,stumbled across it at the right price & the last of my pair of Cube 60's had died,so i bought it,but long term,i don't want to get back into valves.

[kpsion]

Hi everyone

 

Got my FRFR system, last week, an EV ZLX12p

 

 

My first impression is wow !! really cool, what an objective statement :)

 

Sound produced is on one hand really loud, and clean, other hand you can achieve the grittle you have with amp (great that was one of my fear)

 

Other great point : a bodied sound, not a thin lollipop sound , using CAB DEP parameter i even had cab rumble style sound, this low mid effect appearing when speaker are hit hard, so great

 

 

I feel like it's a really good rig now.

 

 

After i see also some issue, with the sound being a bit lifeless , but it's all about sim...

Last issue is the amp sim fizz which tend to push everything disto/overdrive modeled stomp, and amp sim having exactly the same grain.

 

At the moment i'm thinking either putting a tube disto pedal/preamp in effect loop or a stereo tube preamp after the pod and before active speaker to warm up the sound a get that tube brillance missing.

[DunedinDragon]

Leisure,

 

As I said before...apples to oranges.

 

This discussion here deals with live sound reinforcement which is not about reproducing sound under acoustically ideal situations to listeners positioned appropriately.  It's about creating clear, frequency-rich sound under a wide range of challenging acoustic scenarios and distributing it evenly to potentially thousands of people at the same level of clarity regardless where they are located.  Dismissing DSP in that picture as if it's only purpose is to correct for deficiencies in the amp would dismiss the tremendous progress that's been achieved in live sound in pretty much every large venue in existence today.

 

Fortunately for us that technology has been effectively down-sized and through economies of scale is now available at a reasonable price to working musicians at all levels of performance.  To go on about the benefits of high-end amp design only invites the discussion of who are you trying to appease with your choices?  Yourself and maybe the tiny fraction of audiophiles that may or may not exist in the audience, or the masses of people that would never be able to discern the difference?  In live sound reinforcment the choice is simple.  Clearly you yourself have adopted that same approach by moving your rig to modeling/FRFR.

 

It's not a question of credentials at all.  But don't mistake me for some young pup enamoured with only the modern technology that's been around in a limited lifetime.  To the contrary, the bands you opened for came to popularity about halfway through my music career, and IBM Unix was the latecomer from my perspective.  I was a BSD and ATT Sytem V guy after cutting my teeth on IBM 370's and PDP-11's.  But I'm also a guy who built a successful career by recognizing, adopting, and applying new paradigms enabled by advances in technology that have tremendous mass appeal through the years.  That's where all of this kind of stuff really pays off.

[BillBee]

Thanks fellas that points me in the right direction of what to research prior to demoing some.

 

My home PA is an external power amp / speakers, nothing fancy just an old Peavey setup. It does sound great but its not gig portable like a powered FRFR.  Solo playing, yep sounds great. Band mix? eh depends on how the drums and bass are. The only times the PA sounded better was on the cleaner tunes (less ham handed high hats and bowel moving bass). But I tend to roll off the high highs and low lows when on the PA (ironically to sound like the amp/guitar cab).  :)

 

Good stuff thanks again.

 

Fortran 77 anyone? Real fun using punch cards to program that language. :)

 

-B

[joel_brown]

I saw MVS running in a Windows VM.  Kind'a freaked me out...

[BillBee]

Eeesh isn't that for really old mainframe apps? The old languages were some pretty clean code.

[Brazzy]

The old languages were some pretty clean code.

 

You mean there was a simpler, cleaner time?

[BillBee]

Hey Brazzster - yep back when ciggies would only harm you if pregnant and you could wait a week for a printout! :)

[joel_brown]

Mainframe apps ?  That's the first time I've EVER heard them called apps...lol. 

 

Those mainframe apps used to run on machines that would fill a wharehouse, cost millions of dollars, and took teams of people to run it.  Actually they still do but they're a ton more powerful today.

[BillBee]

You are right 100% right Joel but what else can I call it when its made virtual. :)

 

and they had tubes!!! (at least the real old ones). Amazing what a bunch of 0s and 1s can do.

[Old-Rocker]

You know,some of the inmates here,sound as old as me :)

[BillBee]

If its not turning gray its falling out my man! :D

[kpsion]

A MVS system would also be able to run Pod HD firmware in a NUMA architecture, then you 'll never see the dsp limit reached message  :D  :ph34r:  :P

[joel_brown]

Yeah but it would be a little more than $500 bucks and wouldn't fit in a gig bag...hehe.  But you're right, you could have thousands of amp models and FX all at the same time and tweak yourself into a coma.

[Smashcraaft]

Just a quote of the TXT above ;)  

I do love it when someone presents a GOOD credible/constructive argument. As that's what brings out details and facts that generally help and enlighten.

And your posts are always some good, credible, and valued points of view.

PLEASE, don't take anything I write personally. As I do tend to get somewhat riled when talking about things I'm passionate about.

And I get extra excited when content implies I may be a relic or behind on technology,........(Well, because I'm old, and it sucks!) - LOL!

 

1.) UNIX was my first lessons in computing, not the last.......That example was from long ago. 

I still do IT work, and seminars/webinars as well.

These days I work in a mostly Nucrosoft/Windows environment, but that AIN'T what I get paid the big bucks for, because everybody knows how to do windows.

It didn't have ANYTHING to do with cleaner simpler code or times. Unix and Linux still pay the bills for me.

Several of the banks, call centers, hospitals, and casinos I work at, still use IBM Unix and/or Linux for security purposes..........Scary, ha!

But being computer wizards I'm sure you already knew that.

 

2.) Yes, all the bands I listed peaked in the eighties. I was trying to give an idea of how long I've been at this. Those bands gear has obviously changed since then as well.

No, I still haven't embraced FRFR as being my only choice musically - It's just my only choice for what my old _ss can pack around these days. 

And yes, in most cases is generally better for getting sound out to the crowd. There are again, several points you present that I have no argument for.

I actually started my FRFR chase in the late SEVENTIES, when I plugged my guitar in to the home stereo and achieved a tone that I'm still chasing to this day, 

and will obviously never attain. As if I heard it again these days it would probably suck, and not be as good as I remember. 

As these days I have a more educated and discerning ear, and my tastes have changed. I think our memories tend to cheat us that way sometimes.

 

I stated that yah, (I get it) when it comes to what gear gets the job done around the world, and that nobody packs around Ross, M&K, B&W or H&K etc. to their shows. 

But that certainly doesn't mean that there isn't anything of (MORE QUALITY) available.

My whole point I was trying to make there: Was that he shouldn't be worried about the FRFR system he's running being to blame for the problems he's experiencing. 

And that I doubt running out to buy a pair of powered monitors is going to fix it. as compared to any other, decent quality, separate amp and cabs that are FRFR.

Yes, I realize that the Orange cab is certainly not FRFR. But, I'm also trying to keep in mind the original post along with my rambling. 

And don't want to hi-jack the post with our debate on class D amps.

 

Which brings me to a reply I did recently to the IEM post on here; If you're going to go FRFR - Why buy cabs and/or amps at all.

Why not just go IEM ???....Most end up there eventually anyway!....And you probaly could've got close to achieving that for the same coin spent.

I have both, along with Aviom system. I'll take IEM over FRFR cabs any day.

 

Also the DSP used in the class D amps in those enclosures isn't adjustable or LEARNING in any way!

so yes, it's just there to make up for the very square class D amp waves produced by a bunch of little switches in class D, and the shortcomings of the enclosure etc.

(That's the R&D I was talking about that you're paying for. They're trying to make a newer, cheaper, lighter, technology work. And doing a pretty good job.)

Where as external DSP IS adjustable to make up for rooms, gear, etc. Not just the shortcomings of the amp and cab.

Sounds like marketing has done it's job well. - Apples/Oranges I don't think so - IMO.

The technology improvements of late - (DSP, etc.) have finally made Class-D amps usefull and feasible. And possibly even desirable.

 

Until recent technology improvements, class D was simply for small devices etc. And wasn't deemed as being acceptable in pro audio, or home stereo.

Times have indeed changed with the available new tech. But I'm still not used to hearing class D amps compared with the finest in audio quality ???

I have a bunch of new QSC amps that are H class or something (cheap stuff) Do they do the job intended ? - Yes, nicely! Are they the best amps I own - I'll leave that one open.

Would I cry too much if someone bounced one off of the pavement.........probably yes. As it did it's job admirably for what it was intended for. 

Doesn't mean it was the best for the application - Just the best for my budget at the time. 

 

 

This point of view may seem somewhat harsh: But -

I was excited about the digital age as well - I'm still waiting for it to bring me something other than Sh1tty music from a bunch of mediocre bands that don't have a full album 

of talent to offer........As was necessary to record in the old days. It was a welcome screening process for me as a listener. 

Now we have an internet and TV full of a bunch of fart sounding music, that someone made on their casio organ, simply because now anyone can record and get it out there.

The - Now everybody can record and produce thing, hasn't been all that much of a gift to my ear. Or my music collection.

 

And MP3's: that make my big buck subwoofers almost useless, and my 360 degree ribbon tweeters throw away items.

 

So while digital has definately brought me a lot of convenience, and in some cases even improvements. 

Overall for me, with the exception of having more gear at my fingertips for different sounds.

I can't say digital has greatly enhanced my over all musical experience, or the quality of my guitar sound since the eighties. (And yes, I've bought new gear since then) - LOL! 

Possibly because I was lucky enough to have 1/2 the stuff being modeled. (cousin had a music store) 

So, with the exceptions of - FOH sound, (which is important) and being able to pack it around, (Also important) 

And better algorithms and processing power making what they already had back then better.

I just haven't enjoyed the same gains that others seem to think/feel they have. 

And modeling just gives me more/new sounds that are easier to obtain and pack. Not necessarily better ones.

 

I will grant the fact that most of todays music offers me very little, and I've become a dinosaur/relic in that way - But not technology wise!

The worse part for me is that I'm tired of hearing all the same old sh1t I liked too.......So, I'm a man w/o music these days. Maybe that's why I have anger issues. - LOL!

Well, gotta go answer the door. There are some guys in white suits out there!

 

 

I'm obviously NOT the brightest candle in the church - But do have an occasional flicker that lights up the stained glass!

[Old-Rocker]

Hi,in my last post,i said i was stepping back from FRFR,(i started the thread because i just couldn't get anything like a sound,i could consider gigging with).

I am now apologising to the members who have spent time & effort replying to my comments.

On Saturday i did my 1st gig since starting the thread & as soon as we started our sound check(amateurish),i realised that something has gone wrong with my hearing,i can't describe it very well,but the Bass frequencies are going in/out,sort of like a phasing issue & my Guitar amp that normally sounds thick,full & ploddy,sounded like a transistor radio,i don't know what's has happened,but somethings gone wrong,hopefully i'll find out at the Doctors Today.

I'm really sorry to have wasted your time.

Old-Rocker(now deaf as well) :(

[BillBee]

Its never a waste of time OR. FRFR is not the law its an option. At the end of the day it is your ears and what makes your toes tingle. :)

[cruisinon2]

***"This point of view may seem somewhat harsh: But -

I was excited about the digital age as well - I'm still waiting for it to bring me something other than Sh1tty music from a bunch of mediocre bands that don't have a full album

of talent to offer........As was necessary to record in the old days."***

 

Lol...we're all still listening to stuff from the "good old days". But even then, there was a lot of filler material. I can count all the albums I would listen to start-to-finish on one hand.

 

Here's how it is: the more aching joints you have when you drag yourself out of bed in the morning, the more "modern" music sucks. I guarantee that at some point Mozart's old man screamed at him to "turn down that miserable harpsichord $#!*" ;).

 

The overwhelming majority of the record (mp3 now, I suppose) buying public is 18-25 years old. Been that way since Elvis, and isn't going to change. The industry knows this quite well, which is why that's where most of the marketing is directed. Most of us stop discovering new music past that age...spouses, kids, jobs, etc. It just happens. So the average person is still listening to whatever was "awesome" when they were idiot teenagers. Bob Seger can still sell tickets because a bunch of his fans from the 70's and 80's have yet to drop dead, but the only 20 year olds at his shows are scanning tickets and selling t-shirts. C'est la vie...