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Why only 60 seconds for the looper?

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This is confusing to me.  Why only 60 seconds on the looper?  This is supposed to be a high end jack of all trades product.  Why only 60 seconds.  It is 2016.  Storage is cheap.  Why limit this function to only 60 seconds?  This seems like an intentional act to limit functionality.  I don't want to have to have a separate looper pedal.  That is one of the reasons I seek to buy a pedal like this.  My zoom g5 has 60 seconds, and it is 5 years old.  :(  I am disappointed.

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You can make it 120 seconds, by using it at half speed, but it will be only mono then.

 

Not sure why it's limited.

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I agree, the time limit is very frustrating. I bought a looper years ago and never really got in to it much. This looper I use all the time and the limitation is such a disappointment. A very poor decision in what is otherwise a superb product.

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I agree, it's not much. But I don't use it very often and if so then just for creating tones and practice, not during performance so it's absolutely fine for me at the moment. I think there is an Undo feature right? That in fact probably doubles the memory needs internally but still.

 

Generally I don't think that the looper is of high priority to Line 6, its features are quite limited (no tempo-quantising, just a single loop to play, no separate layers...). Perhaps if there is a big demand, they'll change their minds but for me there are more interesting features that might be developed...

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I think people would play more for a "DeLuxe" version of HELIX that had a XDHC Card slot and more memory and features for proper multi-track looping. 

 

In the meantime I submitted this proposal some while back: 

 

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Extend-Looper-capability-with-add-on-unit-w-SDHC-memory-card/802351-23508

 

"Manufacture an add-on device - say a second Swell pedal - or a foot-controller-extension WITH a built-in slot for an SDHC card on the side and a USB socket to be connected to the main Helix ( via USB of course ). If necessary some kind of USB-Splitter thing could be built-in so that while this SDHC extender pedal is connected to the main Helix the Helix can still connect over USB to any other device - say a computer or iPad etc.. for audio etc. 

This "extender" box could ALSO finally incorporate WI-FI built-in in order to finally allow the Helix to be controlled. programmed and managed over Wi-Fi - by for example an iPad. 

The Helix Looper software could then be modified significantly to support very advanced types of Looper functionality - making use of the storage of the SDHC card - accessed over the USB connection."

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Also - given the popularity of the iOS looping app  Loopy HD -  just some enhancements to allow more MIDI control flexibility to control devices like Loopy HD would be greatly welcome methinks 

 

 

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/MIDI-CONTROLLER-Block-where-all-footswitches-become-MIDI-pedal/802355-23508

 

"Have a special block - linked to a foot-switch which - when turned on - makes all 8 ( or more ) foot-switches temporarily become MIDI controllers. In this mode each switch would have dedicated scribble-strip names i could customise.  I realise there is some existing MIDI controller functionality for foot-switches already. But I need the scribble strips AND the foots-switches to ONLY act as MIDI controllers in this mode - while being able to return to normal control of effects etc by exiting this. 

This would be much in the similar fashion to how we currently enter or exit the LOOPER mode in the Helix

This might be used for example to control external loopers like Loopy HD on the iPad, or launch Loops or scenes in Ableton over MIDI via mapping - or some kind of sequencer control during live mode. 

A single pedal would have to be dedicated to EXIT - to exit back to normal mode."

 

Another thought I just had is that instead of limiting this special block to **just** assigning MIDI control functions to all 8 pedals in this mode. instead it could be left open. So if we want to use 7 pedals in this mode for pure MIDI control - but have the 8th pedal assigned to a BOOST or some other effect then we still can. This way we could in fact have several blocks programmed - inside a single preset - which we can switch into and out of - as we wish. So maybe one block has pedals mainly for LOOPY HD, but another gets used to control Ableton scenes, loops etc - whatever. Or a block could be set up so that all we have are 7 or 8 "scenes" - one per pedal. !!!

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I guess my take is different - the vast majority of people I've seen use looping live have been using relatively simple loopers. The good ol' DL4 is by far the one I've seen most often, and with that the max is 28 seconds. These simple one-layer loopers aren't really mean to be a sophisticated multi-track looping system, but you can still do some very creative things with them. Basically, the reason the Helix doesn't have more looping time and more features is that those sorts of devices are using a very different sort of system architecture that the Helix doesn't have. If you want a sophisticated looper like that, I guess the good news is that it's very easy to incorporate into a Helix-based rig.

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If you need a pretty sophisticated looper, getting an outboard looper is always gonna be better than relying on what's in a box like Helix. When they asked pros, a fully functional looper was WAY DOWN on the list of things they wanted, and things like 3rd party IRs and multiple signal chains and lots of FX loops was probably really really high. 

I think, overall, that they went the right way with this.

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Also - given the popularity of the iOS looping app  Loopy HD -  just some enhancements to allow more MIDI control flexibility to control devices like Loopy HD would be greatly welcome methinks 

 

 

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/MIDI-CONTROLLER-Block-where-all-footswitches-become-MIDI-pedal/802355-23508

 

"Have a special block - linked to a foot-switch which - when turned on - makes all 8 ( or more ) foot-switches temporarily become MIDI controllers. In this mode each switch would have dedicated scribble-strip names i could customise.  I realise there is some existing MIDI controller functionality for foot-switches already. But I need the scribble strips AND the foots-switches to ONLY act as MIDI controllers in this mode - while being able to return to normal control of effects etc by exiting this. 

This would be much in the similar fashion to how we currently enter or exit the LOOPER mode in the Helix

This might be used for example to control external loopers like Loopy HD on the iPad, or launch Loops or scenes in Ableton over MIDI via mapping - or some kind of sequencer control during live mode. 

A single pedal would have to be dedicated to EXIT - to exit back to normal mode."

 

Another thought I just had is that instead of limiting this special block to **just** assigning MIDI control functions to all 8 pedals in this mode. instead it could be left open. So if we want to use 7 pedals in this mode for pure MIDI control - but have the 8th pedal assigned to a BOOST or some other effect then we still can. This way we could in fact have several blocks programmed - inside a single preset - which we can switch into and out of - as we wish. So maybe one block has pedals mainly for LOOPY HD, but another gets used to control Ableton scenes, loops etc - whatever. Or a block could be set up so that all we have are 7 or 8 "scenes" - one per pedal. !!!

 

Yeah - definitely some better MIDI implementation would really help.  I have a project in planning that will involve some pretty serious live looping - and I think I am going to have to use Mobius on my mac to do it - I am not sure if Loopy is up to the task.   It would be great if Helix could control the looper properly and your idea of a separate Looper page might be handy - even if you could just use the existing one and rename and reassign footswitches.

 

I have to agree with phil_m and Peter Hamm that Line6 have pretty much got the looper right on Helix.   It's good enough for jamming out ideas, or putting down some chords to practice solos to, and maybe even good enough for simple looping at gigs.   If they could change one thing it would be better MIDI control and MIDI tempo / beat sync with other devices.

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Personally I didn't buy the Helix to be a jack-of-all-trades.  If I want a sophisticated looper I'll buy one and hook it in.  But since I have no need for one I'm glad I didn't have to pay for one that was built in to the unit that I would never use.

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Jeez.. How hard could it have been to add an extra 30-60 seconds (60 preferred).  Seems to me they already have the system architecture, they just needed a little more memory.  For $1500 bucks in 2016, this should have been a no brainer.

 

My needs are different.  I like to lay sometimes 1-2 min loops down, and then come back and solo over them.  I do this both live and when I am practicing by myself.  In practice, it is huge.

 

The reason we go for these big multi-effect units, is because we don't want to lug around and maintain a bunch of individual pedals.  In an ideal world, I would show up with the helix, plug into my amp or the house PA, and call it a day.

 

This to me seems like either a big over-sight, or more likely, an intentional dumbing down of the system.  In the past, I always felt like these multi-rigs were dumbed down so folks would still have to buy the accompanying looper.  Can't make it too sweet, otherwise no one will buy the specialized product.  It's a shame..  I just want 30-60 more seconds.

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Jeez.. How hard could it have been to add an extra 30-60 seconds (60 preferred).  Seems to me they already have the system architecture, they just needed a little more memory.  For $1500 bucks in 2016, this should have been a no brainer.

 

My needs are different.  I like to lay sometimes 1-2 min loops down, and then come back and solo over them.  I do this both live and when I am practicing by myself.  In practice, it is huge.

 

The reason we go for these big multi-effect units, is because we don't want to lug around and maintain a bunch of individual pedals.  In an ideal world, I would show up with the helix, plug into my amp or the house PA, and call it a day.

 

This to me seems like either a big over-sight, or more likely, an intentional dumbing down of the system.  In the past, I always felt like these multi-rigs were dumbed down so folks would still have to buy the accompanying looper.  Can't make it too sweet, otherwise no one will buy the specialized product.  It's a shame..  I just want 30-60 more seconds.

 

Just to clarify something, you can get up to 60 seconds in stereo and 120 seconds in mono with the Helix looper as is stands now. You just have to hit the 1/2 speed switch prior to recording your loop.

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Personally I didn't buy the Helix to be a jack-of-all-trades. 

fair point - neither did I -   but as they put in a looper - at the minimum I just wish it had more looping time. For me the built-in looper just doesn't have enough time for me to really use it in the manner i'd like. Merely raising it to 3 minutes would have been so cool - since thats the total time of a typical complete track-  so ups the looping form being just a phrase or few - to a complete song.  for the price of a little more memory - or a HDXC slot. 

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Jeez.. How hard could it have been to add an extra 30-60 seconds (60 preferred).  Seems to me they already have the system architecture, they just needed a little more memory.  For $1500 bucks in 2016, this should have been a no brainer.

 

My needs are different.  I like to lay sometimes 1-2 min loops down, and then come back and solo over them.  I do this both live and when I am practicing by myself.  In practice, it is huge.

 

The reason we go for these big multi-effect units, is because we don't want to lug around and maintain a bunch of individual pedals.  In an ideal world, I would show up with the helix, plug into my amp or the house PA, and call it a day.

 

This to me seems like either a big over-sight, or more likely, an intentional dumbing down of the system.  In the past, I always felt like these multi-rigs were dumbed down so folks would still have to buy the accompanying looper.  Can't make it too sweet, otherwise no one will buy the specialized product.  It's a shame..  I just want 30-60 more seconds.

 

Yup - well lets settle for 120 seconds more ;) 

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The fact that memory is so cheap is not a factor here at all. They didn't pick out memory and chipsets and so on based on how much time it would give them for the looper. They designed the looper and its constraints based on how much memory they had available with the hardware they already decided on, and how much DSP they wanted the looper to hog when you put one in there. Keep in mind, if they say the looper can go for 5 minutes, then whenever you put a looper in your patch, they need to set aside that much memory. If they put the limit too high, people would be whining that it takes up too much DSP power and they can't load enough effects in there to go with it. :)

 

If you want to criticize the looper for something, there are other things that limit it more than the time. The fact that it's one track only, for example. Or that you can't save or load loops. For almost everybody, 1-2 minutes is more than enough. For the people who need more, they probably need a load of other features as well, regardless of time available, so it isn't an issue for them either.

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fair point - neither did I -   but as they put in a looper - at the minimum I just wish it had more looping time. For me the built-in looper just doesn't have enough time for me to really use it in the manner i'd like. Merely raising it to 3 minutes would have been so cool - since thats the total time of a typical complete track-  so ups the looping form being just a phrase or few - to a complete song.  for the price of a little more memory - or a HDXC slot. 

 

I'm sure it would be nice FOR YOU...but for me and most people I know using modelers, 60 seconds is more than enough and most people I know with modelers.  I have many other options for practicing with a long track...like using the aux in froman MP3 player or using the Helix as a sound board from the computer.  If I need to practice a lead, 60 seconds is more than enough to cover the phrase I need to play over, but generally I'll just record it to my DAW and play it back through the USB.  So even the looper they've got isn't anything I use.

 

And it's not just the price of memory.  An HDXC slot would have to be designed into the case. And since this isn't just a general purpose operating system but a highly specialized real-time operating environment the HDXC unit has to be electronically designed into the circuitry and code has to be written for it,  tested and integrated with the rest of the features..insuring that it doesn't interfere other key capabilities.  This isn't some off-the-shelf PC with guys hacking away at the code in mom's basement.  All of that comes with a with price.

 

Or, you can easily add in a much better looper to fit your specific use right off the shelf from most music stores and have exactly what you want.  There's no need for me to pay for it.

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Come on guys.. this is 2016.  The average 500 dollar computer comes with 8-12 gb of RAM plus a quad core processor.  I don't care if you are recording at 96khz, 2-3 minutes of record time at most is going to maybe use a few hundred mb.  For 1500 bucks, we should not have to slice and dice like this.  That is the reason we spent 1500 bucks. 

 

Side note, I bought mine from guitar center and I am still within the 45 day return limit. I am on the fence about it.

 

Anyways, just seems like 100-200 mb should be drivel in todays world at this price point. Those that make the argument that they would rather have the extra memory for their effects are missing the point.  My zoom g5 cost me $260 after discount, and it records 60 seconds, plus it lets me layer over that. 

 

Just saying...  I get that the extra time does not help you, but that is not what this is about.  I am a mostly clean player.  Most of the hard core distortion rigs don't help me either, and I would love to exchange them for better looper, more effect options (killer envelope filter, etc..).  That's not how this works though.  Still, at the 1500 dollar price point, you shouldn't have to sacrifice 1 or the other imo...

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Note that getting 120 sec from the Helix looper has two compromises:

 

1. Its mono - this doesn't work well because the looper often should be at the end of the signal chain, recording all mono before the amp effects, the amp and cab models, and all stereo after the amp effects. Then when you play over the loop you can change anything for the layered parts or while playing.

 

You can't put the looper in mono in front of the amp model unless the model is very clean. Otherwise the distorted amp will distort the sum of the looper output and what you're playing. That won't sound good as the loudest signal will effectively duck the other signal.

 

2. At 1/2 speed, the resolution and tone is degraded - basically the looper is skipping every other sample or something similar to save memory. This degrades the tone.

 

To me the minimal duration design parameter for a looper should be able to support full fidelity, stereo loop of a typical song verse or chorus at a relatively slow tempo. 120 sec is probably a good choice. That means Helix looper needs 4X the memory it has now.

 

See Best practices for performing with a looper for additional information. Generally loops should be kept very short when played live and have minimal layers. Otherwise they can become distracting. That said, I still wish the Helix looper was 120 sec, full fidelity, stereo.

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Come on guys.. this is 2016.  The average 500 dollar computer comes with 8-12 gb of RAM plus a quad core processor.  I don't care if you are recording at 96khz, 2-3 minutes of record time at most is going to maybe use a few hundred mb.  For 1500 bucks, we should not have to slice and dice like this.  That is the reason we spent 1500 bucks. 

 

Side note, I bought mine from guitar center and I am still within the 45 day return limit. I am on the fence about it.

 

Anyways, just seems like 100-200 mb should be drivel in todays world at this price point. Those that make the argument that they would rather have the extra memory for their effects are missing the point.  My zoom g5 cost me $260 after discount, and it records 60 seconds, plus it lets me layer over that. 

 

Just saying...  I get that the extra time does not help you, but that is not what this is about.  I am a mostly clean player.  Most of the hard core distortion rigs don't help me either, and I would love to exchange them for better looper, more effect options (killer envelope filter, etc..).  That's not how this works though.  Still, at the 1500 dollar price point, you shouldn't have to sacrifice 1 or the other imo...

I think it would be viable to have separate looper blocks that you could add in - 1 minute, 5 minute, whatever. That should be possible. It seems reasonable. As far as I can tell, the limit is somewhat arbitrary.

 

It would be a good suggestion. I think Digital_Igloo suggested somebody put it on Ideascale at one point, or something similar. It's probably up there. I'd be shocked if it wasn't on one of DI's lists somewhere.

 

But here's the thing...they made the decision for a reason, and they have a lot more info about the inner workings of the box. Making a suggestion that they increase the time, that's cool. It's not a bad idea. But suggesting they intentionally limited the time with the intent of pushing sales of their 20 year old looper pedal is just ridiculous.

 

It's also worth noting that the hardware in things like the Helix isn't quite what the average person is used to in terms of a computer. The average computer may have a crapton of RAM that cost about $20, but it also introduces too much latency in real-time audio processing to be viable as a high-end guitar pedal. (Not all computers, but the average computer.) There's a difference between the processors in your PC and the dedicated DSP chips in things like AX and Helix. These are dedicated processors that make sacrifices in other areas in order to excel at the more important ones, like I/O throughput. Point being, it's not an apples to apples comparison. It's all fruit, but...

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 My Digitech JamMan Express XT looper has 10 MINUTES of record time and costs $99 brand new.  

 

​Once you use a looper with this kind of time freedom, you're addicted.  

 

Even something as simple as playing 'Hotel California' to jam over...would that fit in 60 seconds?  Certainly not the bridge too lol.

 

Having the Looper integrated as well as it is in the Helix, is wonderful!  But 60 seconds is a major handicap in my opinion.  

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I would suggest that if the looper time limitation is enough to make you want to return your Helix, the Helix was probably the wrong thing for you in the first place.  Believe me there will definately be someone ready to buy the one you bring back since they're in such short supply.

 

Go save yourself some money, buy a JamMan and an effects box and be happy.  The looper limit is the least of my worries.  I'd prefer Line 6 spend the time on more amps, cabs, and effects. Those are the things I'll get the most use out of.

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Here were the top three requests we received regarding HD500X's looper:

  1. Disable the looper so I won't accidentally engage it during a gig
  2. Let me use the Looper footswitch for something else
  3. Free up the Looper's DSP (and/or block location) for more effects

Helix's looper is RAM-based; it doesn't stream to and from dedicated flash.

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For me the length of 60 seconds is plenty... 10 would be fine... but not being able to save and load loops, or have multiple loops loaded (at least 4) so I could trigger them makes it just a useless part of the Helix for me. 

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No feedback on the looper already made it pretty pointless to me beyond a basic writing tool.  It would be fun to be able to do both delay/hold style looping (using the 8 second simple delay) and having a tap based loop that decays at a similar rate. 

Time wise?  I like running it in 120secs for the signal destruction.  I'd actually love it to have even more time at lower resolutions (just for the low-res sampling tone, not for the time)

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Why would you want to loop more than 60 (120) secs?
Typically you loop a 4 bar or 8 bar pattern, not a full song.
Anything more than 60/120 secs is what I'd call extraordinary features, and then you buy an extern device for such a thing.
Just like you would do if you want a really smart harmonizer or any other pedal that are made to do one thing only.

Anyway, my 2 cents on this:)

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Here were the top three requests we received regarding HD500X's looper:

  • Disable the looper so I won't accidentally engage it during a gig
  • Let me use the Looper footswitch for something else
  • Free up the Looper's DSP (and/or block location) for more effects
Helix's looper is RAM-based; it doesn't stream to and from dedicated flash.

 

 

For me the length of 60 seconds is plenty... 10 would be fine... but not being able to save and load loops, or have multiple loops loaded (at least 4) so I could trigger them makes it just a useless part of the Helix for me.

 

I would not want to see critical other functionality sacrificed for the sake of the looper although a bit longer duration would certainly be nice. The looper on the Fractal AX8 units does have more functionality and a much longer max duration (mono 4 minutes) although I don't believe you can save the loops (loop saves would be a great feature for an editor!). The Fractal FX8 can also disable the looper to "save CPU cycles". I am not sure how Fractal pulled it off but they did manage to incorporate a much better looper with similar hardware to the Helix. I have no idea what sacrifices this cost them however in other functionality. It does give hope that perhaps there are still some improvements L6 could make to the looper although I find it adequate for my purposes now.

 

I do understand that single and duo acts who use looping to carry rhythm parts, or even musicians who use them creatively in small or large bands may not find the looper on the Helix sufficient for their needs. I know it is cold consolation and not what anyone wants to hear but I think an external looper pedal is probably the way to go for these musicians. I have the Digitech JamMan Solo XT and it does a great job as well as having flash card storage for as many long loops as anyone could ever need. Not that I would not love to have that functionality built in to the Helix.

 

The Helix's looper seems like more of an afterthought and it looks like it may have shown up as low priority in L6's market research. I do think in future iterations of the Helix a more sophisticated looper with flash card capability would be an awesome addition but I just don't think it is in the "cards" right now (pun intended). But hey, who am I to rain on anyone else's parade. If L6 can figure out a way to beef it up without taking away from other features and functionality, I hope they do just that.

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If you have an iPhone 5 or higher just get yourself a Lightning to USB cable (Camera kit) and download Loopy for $4.

 

Just plug the USB into Helix and you should be good to go.  (after setting up a few MIDI messages of course)

 

You will have MANY more options that is possible on any hardware looper I know of.

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If you have an iPhone 5 or higher just get yourself a Lightning to USB cable (Camera kit) and download Loopy for $4.

 

Just plug the USB into Helix and you should be good to go.  (after setting up a few MIDI messages of course)

 

You will have MANY more options that is possible on any hardware looper I know of.

 

Interesting.

 

But how would you control it?  Wouldn't you have to give up crucial foot switches? 

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Interesting.

 

But how would you control it?  Wouldn't you have to give up crucial foot switches? 

 

Yes you'd have to assign some of your 8 (or 10) stomp footswitches to control it.  There's always a compromise somewhere when you try to get one box to do many things!   I've not actually tried this yet - I think I will try to set up Helix with Mobius looper on my mac soon.

 

I like this idea of the Looper page sending MIDI, but make everything editable in the Looper page - so scribble strips could be relabelled and maybe even the internal looper disabled to save system resources.

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Helix-Looper-mode-should-also-send-MIDI-CC-messages/800940-23508

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I do really really wish the Helix saved to Flash and could store a loop or two, would use that a lot, but not for everyone I guess.

 

From a third party perspective. I utilize looping a lot, have owned quite a number of different loopers over the years (Boss, TC, Boomerang, Digitech, Pigtronix), all with their advantages and disadvantages. I will say hands down the two best solutions I've found

 

1 - The new TC Electronic Ditto X4. It's pretty amazing, has a function where you can record two separate sets of loops and have them run in serial mode, so for example a verse and chorus. When you press each corresponding footswitch the ditto will wait till the playing loop finished before switching to the second, so your timing doesnt have to be perfect. The effects are also amazing, and I recently just found you can layer them on top of each other.

 

2 - Ableton Live Looper device. All you need is a footswitch that can send midi (or an interface with a footswitch input so you can use a simple 1\4 inch jack foot pedal). If all you have is one midi switch (I use a Disaster Area DM6 so can map a number of parameters) you map that to Record\Play\Overdub button. The really great thing about this solution is if you want to save a loop you literally drag up into a Session cell, you are then free to add layers or just save your work. Super workflow. 

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It doesn't quantize, save tracks, or auto-record either. If you need to record and loop and ENTIRE song, something like whatever is built-in to most pedals isn't going to cut it, but since you have the ability, you could bring a laptop, control it with the Helix, and have soooooo much more looping power than most floor-based pedals you're trying to compare it to. At least it has a looper.

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FWIW, I'm a hardcore looper guy, but knowing what I do about hardcore looper guys, it's safe to say we're an incredibly fickle bunch. We'd all want Helix to behave exactly like our personal favorite looper (mine's the Electrix Repeater), and if it didn't, we'd complain nonstop. And then the TC Ditto guys would scream "where's my easy-to-use one button looper?!" So instead, we just trusted IdeaScale to tell us where Helix's looper should go.

 

That said, Helix's switches have no silkscreen, so there's nothing precluding us from adding our take on a full-featured multitrack looper, although it'd be tricky to switch memory management over to flash.

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2 - Ableton Live Looper device. All you need is a footswitch that can send midi (or an interface with a footswitch input so you can use a simple 1\4 inch jack foot pedal). If all you have is one midi switch (I use a Disaster Area DM6 so can map a number of parameters) you map that to Record\Play\Overdub button. The really great thing about this solution is if you want to save a loop you literally drag up into a Session cell, you are then free to add layers or just save your work. Super workflow. 

 

Yes - for those willing to use a laptop on stage Ableton offers ***SO*** much more.   I've done a fair bit of investigating of some of the Max4Live Looping devices which extend the functionality of the built in Live Looper - specially when wanting to loop on several tracks and switch between track easily.   

 

I'll maybe do more and try mapping HELIX pedals to it.   Last time i tried it there were those HELIX USB audio issues - but we're past that now so need to reinvestigate this all. 

 

The other route of course other than pedals or Ableton - is Loopy HD  

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Here were the top three requests we received regarding HD500X's looper:

  1. Disable the looper so I won't accidentally engage it during a gig
  2. Let me use the Looper footswitch for something else
  3. Free up the Looper's DSP (and/or block location) for more effects

Helix's looper is RAM-based; it doesn't stream to and from dedicated flash.

DI, you could read these as demand-side view of the HD500X looper, or you could read them as a need for additional features that have little to do with the looper.

 

1. disabling the looper is about having a dedicated switch to looping even if that block is not part of the patch. This is a request for more flexible mode switching.

 

2. another request for more mode switching, any number of modes for any purpose within a patch, including possibly looping. There's no need to hard-code the loper functions.

 

3. looper as an optional block - sure, just like any block, why make this a special case?

 

Helix does some of these from the perspective of the looper, but doesn't address the need for configurable mode switching.

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DI, you could read these as demand-side view of the HD500X looper, or you could read them as a need for additional features that have little to do with the looper.

 

I've read those requests as people not wanting the looper to get in the way. The requests weren't just from IdeaScale either—we heard the same stuff in sit-down interviews, one-on-one discussions, forum posts, etc.

 

Again, I'm all for a hardcore feature-packed looper in Helix. But it'd likely be the rabbit hole to end all rabbit holes, at the expense of everything else people want. We have ideas on how to add looper stuff without falling off the cliff, tho', and specific, detailed feature requests (as opposed to "add the equivalent of a $500 dedicated looper made by a dedicated looper team over two years") are always welcome.

 

I'm hesitant to alter Helix's existing workflow, however. For example, letting people add any switch from any mode to any switch in any other mode would make things more difficult for everyone, including people who avoid loopers like the plague.

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If you need a pretty sophisticated looper, getting an outboard looper is always gonna be better than relying on what's in a box like Helix. When they asked pros, a fully functional looper was WAY DOWN on the list of things they wanted, and things like 3rd party IRs and multiple signal chains and lots of FX loops was probably really really high.

 

I think, overall, that they went the right way with this.

This would not be an issue if you could assign one of the FX returns as a Global return. One that would not be affected and continue to pass an incoming signal uninterrupted when switching presets - the way the internal looper does. Alas, that is simply not the case. Very frustrating and limiting.

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If you have an iPhone 5 or higher just get yourself a Lightning to USB cable (Camera kit) and download Loopy for $4.

 

Just plug the USB into Helix and you should be good to go.  (after setting up a few MIDI messages of course)

 

You will have MANY more options that is possible on any hardware looper I know of.

 

What a great idea!  

 

I set mine up last night and have been having a blast with it.

 

It's true though - the Helix footswitches become precious real estate when using them for Loopy and for effects.

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It's true though - the Helix footswitches become precious real estate when using them for Loopy and for effects.

 exactly - which ... is why i proposed this: 

 

"Have a special block - linked to a foot-switch which - when turned on - makes all 8 ( or more ) foot-switches temporarily become MIDI controllers. In this mode each switch would have dedicated scribble-strip names i could customise.:

 

http://line6.ideasca...al/802355-23508

 

This would be much in the similar fashion to how we currently enter or exit the LOOPER mode in the Helix

This might be used for example to control external loopers like Loopy HD on the iPad, or launch Loops or scenes in Ableton over MIDI via mapping - or some kind of sequencer control during live mode. 

A single pedal would have to be dedicated to EXIT - to exit back to normal mode."

 

Another thought I just had is that instead of limiting this special block to **just** assigning MIDI control functions to all 8 pedals in this mode. instead it could be left open. So if we want to use 7 pedals in this mode for pure MIDI control - but have the 8th pedal assigned to a BOOST or some other effect then we still can. This way we could in fact have several blocks programmed - inside a single preset - which we can switch into and out of - as we wish. So maybe one block has pedals mainly for LOOPY HD, but another gets used to control Ableton scenes, loops etc - whatever. Or a block could be set up so that all we have are 7 or 8 "scenes" - one per pedal. !!!

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A very simple solution is to expand the current mode switch. It currently has preset, stop and looper modes. First simply have the looper model also send MIDI CC messages like the HD500X did. This would free up another whole set of footswitches. But then expand by have user defined modes where the 10 footswitches can be programmed to send different MIDI messages without changing the patch.

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A very simple solution is to expand the current mode switch. It currently has preset, stop and looper modes. First simply have the looper model also send MIDI CC messages like the HD500X did. This would free up another whole set of footswitches. But then expand by have user defined modes where the 10 footswitches can be programmed to send different MIDI messages without changing the patch.

 

It's a great idea to have the Helix's Looper footswitches perform other functions.

 

But unless I need my reading glasses, the way you phrased this, it sounds like you can hit the "Mode" switch to get to the Looper.  Mine doesn't work like that - I have to manually assign a footswitch to the Looper.  Is this something only on the rack version or have I misconstrued?

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