Sigma 3 IRs for ACOUSTIC guitar are going to change your life.

[shanecgriffo]

thanks for the video peter 👌

[HonestOpinion]

Forgot to mention, HUGE AG Stomp fan here. I bought it when it was brand new and I use it often when I just want a simple guitar into PA. Only one of the mic images works well for me, but that built-in EQ is so outstanding I can make any guitar sound great through any PA in less than 90 seconds.

 

I WISH they would update that tech and make an AG Stomp II or something. MagicStomp had it in there but it was noisier and didn't quite sound the same.

 

The AG truly was a great pedal! They seemed to have found some magic mojo with it that made it incredibly fast and easy to make any acoustic guitar sound great through the PA within moments. An updated version of it would be awesome but I think the tech in that pedal is really expensive to make these days. It was probably expensive to produce even then as they never really followed it up . No acoustic pedal I have tried since sounds as warm to my ears although many certainly have some features missing on the AG Stomp. They really got the EQ and processing right for acoustic guitar with that pedal.  I am not saying that the Helix can't ultimately produce a better tone than the AG, it is just the AG was so quick and easy to dial in. Would love to see it, or parts of it, modeled for the Helix, perhaps with an accompanying preset that would recreate the EQ, chorus, reverb, and compressor/limiter sections of the pedal as blocks. Hey it was a Yamaha product, why not throw it some well deserved props on the Helix. 

 

Note: Oh, and as I have mentioned on this forum before, it had phantom power for your acoustic to eliminate the battery, something I wish every MFX intended for acoustic guitar use included.

[PeterHamm]

... it had phantom power for your acoustic to eliminate the battery, something I wish every MFX intended for acoustic guitar use included.

 

The only feature/function on my AG Stomp that no longer works. But that's okay.

[roscoe5]

It is really cool that 3 Sigma addressed the need for pro AG IRs. My hack ones were okay and I was about to make an upright bass one. But the 3 Sigma videos elude to upcoming URB, mandolin, etc. So I'm shelving that project as that would be more than $10 worth of time and frustration :)

 

I have a couple of piezo and mag pickup options for my URB to use with a 3 Sigma micd URB IR. Can't use a mic live without feedback, and mic'd URB is the sweetest thing.

 

Maybe I will still make some micd URB IR'S for piezo and mag pickups for comparisons.

[zooey]

If my electric bass could actually sound like an upright, that'd be pretty awesome. Seems like pretty different envelope though, might be weird, but I'd certainly check it out and hope for the best.

[roscoe5]

Off topic a bit, but I can't help but wonder if Line 6 couldn't/isn't making a Variax HX pack and maybe custom piezo retrofit kits with VDI interface for user guitars and basses. Or just release HX intrument packs for use with any mag or piezo pickups like 3 Sigma has done.

 

Of course spending a little now for $10 3 Sigma packs is no biggie and supports a good group of guys. I'm a cheap a$$ though and will probably wait until they have 6 packs I want so I can get the 20% discount ;)

[mapleleaf14]

I got the Martin D-45 IR and have to say, it is very good!

 

Used in tandem with the piezo in my Music Man Majesty guitar sounds great.

 

Not sure if I'll get the Taylor or Gibson versions because this one is so good, it'll probably work for me.

[soundog]

Best darned IRs for acoustic guitars I've ever heard. Thanks for bringing these to our attention, OP. I ended up getting the Taylor and the Martin, as they were the best match for the wood/size of my guitar.

 

These are the days of miracle and wonder.

[strabes]

http://www.3sigmaaudio.com/acoustic-impulses/

 

Been using my own homebrewed out of Mama Bear, as well as the Taylor (Aura) and Wes Hunter ones that are out there.

 

These are so good I'll never use those ones again, guys. No... Lie...

 

If you use your acoustic with Helix, pony up the 30 bucks right now!

 

I paid my own money for these, they didn't give them to me.

 

Just.

 

Wow.

Do you just make a blank preset with an IR? That's it?? Doing an acoustic set this weekend and dying to use these. 

[HonestOpinion]

Best darned IRs for acoustic guitars I've ever heard. Thanks for bringing these to our attention, OP. I ended up getting the Taylor and the Martin, as they were the best match for the wood/size of my guitar.

 

They are working good enough that I can record direct from my Alvarez Yairi (with B-Band UST/AST pickup) direct to DAW, and then reamp through Helix, selecting the best 3Sigma IR while mixing.  I've whittled down my favorite 10 IRs from all included. Now I can just toggle through them using the Helix while mixing to find which one sits the best. The final step is adding any EQ, compression, and reverb/delay within the DAW.

 

When all is said and done in the mix, my acoustic sounds as good using this direct pickup method as futzing around with mics, positions, and rooms.

 

These are the days of miracle and wonder.

 

Thanks for posting, glad to hear these are working so well for you, I may have to purchase some, interested in the same ones you chose (and most entertaining to end your post with a decades old quote from a Paul Simon tune).

[PeterHamm]

Do you just make a blank preset with an IR? That's it?? Doing an acoustic set this weekend and dying to use these. 

 

Yes. But then I add the vintage tube preamp, very subtle comp and eq, and any FX I want (mostly delay and occasionally verb).

[strabes]

Yes. But then I add the vintage tube preamp, very subtle comp and eq, and any FX I want (mostly delay and occasionally verb).

Care to share the preset? Very curious about this. I've already purchased the IRs I want. Been playing electric for 20 years but never much of an acoustic player. 

[PeterHamm]

Care to share the preset? Very curious about this. I've already purchased the IRs I want. Been playing electric for 20 years but never much of an acoustic player. 

 

Only problem is, it will be so different with your guitar, your room and your speakers that it'll cause more harm than good.

 

Easier (I promise) to dial it up yourself. With the 3 Sigma IRs I go from IR -> Vintage Pre with the input kinda low, the output high, and the level set (I think) to line or whatever the opposite of the default is -> vintage tube comp very close to defaults -> para EQ. I do VERY little eq, just removing a tiny bit of boom on some lower freqs and boosting just a little bit of highs... I use the sound of the room to guide me in my frequency selection.

[strabes]

Only problem is, it will be so different with your guitar, your room and your speakers that it'll cause more harm than good.

 

Easier (I promise) to dial it up yourself. With the 3 Sigma IRs I go from IR -> Vintage Pre with the input kinda low, the output high, and the level set (I think) to line or whatever the opposite of the default is -> vintage tube comp very close to defaults -> para EQ. I do VERY little eq, just removing a tiny bit of boom on some lower freqs and boosting just a little bit of highs... I use the sound of the room to guide me in my frequency selection.

I feel like a complete noob as I kind of am with the helix. I've got a martin IR loaded up, and I found a "studio tube pre" under preamps. I also found "LA studio comp" for compression. Is that what you recommend? I couldn't find vintage pre or vintage comp anywhere. 

[soundog]

You have determined the correct pre and compressor. For more info, read this fellow's article: https://jimamsden.wordpress.com/2016/01/01/creating-a-helix-acoustic-guitar-patch/

 

It got me started up quickly when I first used my acoustic guitar with the Helix. To keep it simple, you could use his preset, strip out all of the extra stuff like effects blocks, and insert your acoustic IR. So, basically use the IR, some EQ if needed, the "studio tube pre" and "LA studio comp" . Put them in his suggested order, or like PeterHamm discusses above. 

[PeterHamm]

I feel like a complete noob as I kind of am with the helix. I've got a martin IR loaded up, and I found a "studio tube pre" under preamps. I also found "LA studio comp" for compression. Is that what you recommend? I couldn't find vintage pre or vintage comp anywhere. 

 

Yup, I always forget the names of stuff when my Helix isn't around.

 

Also, the only EQ I use is the parametric. Learn to use a parametric EQ and compressor right and you can learn to do any kind of sound work.

[d0stenning]

Here ya go.

 

 

 

finally gave this video an audition - and WOW.  thanks for the demo.

 

I have a JTV which of course doesn’t need this ............ except i’ve often gotten into habit of just using my G10 on the JTV but without JTV battery so only use the real magnetics.   ( it limits my choices which is good for **me** ) often these days when mucking about. 

 

But what this means is that i can play acoustic occasionally - just with the magnetics on my JTV59 and this.  Since you’ve proved one can get quite a nice sound even from magnetics in this video. 

 

I happen to have the Glenn DeLaune IRs and patch currently  but can see myself getting these IRs eventually.  TBH though - i do prefer t use the built in JTV models when i can- and the battery is charged !   good to have choices and flexibility like this though

[strabes]

So I've got everything loaded up like in that article and it sounds amazing. Can't believe it. Don't know how I ever played acoustic without this (luckily not very often - hah!)

[roscoe5]

I'm assuming an soundhole rubber feedback buster in a standard piezo-acoustic would have little to no effect on the IR sound, has anyone tried this?

 

I had issues in the past sometimes with feedback and a real acoustic and would have to use the buster.  My band's stage volume tends to be high, and the 15" JBL Eon monitors don't help.

[PeterHamm]

I'm assuming an soundhole rubber feedback buster in a standard piezo-acoustic would have little to no effect on the IR sound, has anyone tried this?

 

I had issues in the past sometimes with feedback and a real acoustic and would have to use the buster.  My band's stage volume tends to be high, and the 15" JBL Eon monitors don't help.

 

Yes, the feedback buster should have no effect on the IR sound whatsoever.

[soundog]

I play with a soundhole cover when playing live, and there is no adverse effect on the tone.

 

BTW, I use one of these  and prefer it over the rubbers, because it looks cool and it lets the sound waves "breath."

[roscoe5]

Thanks guys. I may pull the trigger on a 3S acoustic pack or two then and break out the acoustic live again.

[bc05]

Hey all

 

I have these and they sound amazing. I actually load them in the Cubase inserts inside Two Notes Wall of Sound and blend.

 

I am thinking of getting a Martin Omcpa4- https://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/performing-artist-series/omcpa4-rosewood/

 

it has 'Fishman F1 Analog'electronics and was wondering if this will colour the sound too much out of the guitar to get the joy out of the IRs Im looking for?

 

Excuse if its a silly question - any thoughts appreciated!

 

[PeterHamm]

Hey all I have these and they sound amazing. I actually load them in the Cubase inserts inside Two Notes Wall of Sound and blend. I am thinking of getting a Martin Omcpa4- https://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/performing-artist-series/omcpa4-rosewood/ it has 'Fishman F1 Analog'electronics and was wondering if this will colour the sound too much out of the guitar to get the joy out of the IRs Im looking for? Excuse if its a silly question - any thoughts appreciated!

 

 

I think that guitar has NONE of the Aura image processing, so it should sound the same as the Aura version with the Aura stuff turned off.

 

If that is the case, and I'm pretty sure it is, it if has the F1 Analog system, then it will probably work FANTASTIC with IRs.

[bc05]

Great thanks, yep I think thats correct. I will build some helix patches with it! It def doesnt have the Aura.

[jkuche]

Kudos, Peter , for the video.

 

Seems much of the convo is about acoustic IR's with electric guitars.

 

I play an Ibanez Artwood, Takamine ( native pick-ups)  , and a Martin JC-40 ( Fishman Rare Earth. Yeah- magnetic ). I'm playing through a Firehawk, and somewhat frustrated by the result. Something tinny and unpleasant is hiding in there.  Let's just say I'm often tempted to chuck the Firehawk and go straight in thru some delay pedals.

 

Is the Helix , with the aforementioned IR's ,ideal for these various acoustics compared to Firehawk? 

[BlueViolince]

I may have missed this if it was mentioned, but as I'm taking delivery of my Helix tomorrow, I'm curious.  Is there a volume drop when not using amp modeling, like in the HD series?  I'll be using a custom violin IR, and I had always used the Hiway 412 model in my HD500, mainly for the volume boost.  

[PeterHamm]

Is the Helix , with the aforementioned IR's ,ideal for these various acoustics compared to Firehawk? 

 

 

Simple answer? YES! Tell us how it works for you. And PM me again if you want to Skype or something and work it out! I could do that.

[xxjohnboy]

I bought the taylor and the martin IRs after such glowing recommendations.  Didn't like them at all...  Just thought I would temper the hype.

[shanecgriffo]

did you use them on electric or acoustic guitar?

[PeterHamm]

13 minutes ago, shanecgriffo said:

did you use them on electric or acoustic guitar?

I use them on an acoustic, a hybrid (basically an acoustic), and an electric with PowerBridge. You can create a patch and use them with a regular electric, but since I don't have to do that, I don't.

 

I also use the bass impulses with a fretless bass with a piezo bridge.

[sonidojamon]

Been digging into Acoustic IRs for the past couple of days. As an experienced audio and software engineer, I have a thing to point out.
Most of the homebrew or captured IRs (like the fishman aura I've heard above) sound slightly out of phase to me. And too roomy. I'm sure that if you compare a recording of the Fishman Aura output vs the piezo + "captured" Aura IR, there's gonna be a big difference.

That's why the 3 Sigma ones work so well. Measurements and processing have been done AFTER phase-aligning the mic signal with whichever other signal was being used to create it. And also, they have been recorded in very dry spaces. A touch of ambience gives realism, but nothing beats a nice dry acoustic recording. Room and ambience can be easily added later in the mixing process. Leave that to the mixing engineer. In live situations, every venue adds a lot of space and ambience to the sound before it reaches the audience. Trying to heavily emulate a room or spatial sound just muddies the signal, and looses it in the mix. Long reverbs and the like are another thing, that's creative stuff, EFFECTS. 

A completely dry guitar sound is not pleasing to listen to when using headphones or monitors next to our computer. But that's not the real deal. People will enjoy our music LIVE, IN A REVERBERATING SPACE or in cans/speakers AFTER THE MASTERING AND MIXING PROCESS IS DONE

Bear this in mind: An IR is JUST A FILTER  + SOME SHORT FQ BODY RESONANCE/DECAY. The rest's is just (reflections) mud, better to be added later. 
So c vcvfapture your miked up acoustics as dry as possible to get the closest to the amazing sounding 3 Sigma IRs, and stop downloading and sharing homemade IRs by unexperienced engineers, as most of them sound awful and have lots of phase issues, and thus, unpleasing resonances. I've listened to many nice piezo acoustic sounds turned into boxy, sad, lifeless "real" acoustics the last 2 days. Not one sound that I though was decent until I heard the above 3 sigma IRs. 
 

Experimenting is fun, and you learn a lot in the process, but this IR stuff is far more complicated than you think, and probably far beyond the skills of most of us. So let it go if it becomes frustrating. 

 

I'm gonna do a few tests to support my theories and I'll gladly share the results here so you can tell me what you think.

Thanks for all your posts. I'm a newbie in this forum, and I've learned a lot in a very short time thanks to them.

So far, I'll stick to my iRig Acoustic Stage mic + DSP system. It works great!! You should check it out!

Peace!

[fremen]

The best IR you can use to simulate an electro-acoustic with an electric guitar is the one one you make yourself, in a specific pickup position. An IR made for a Telecaster neck pickup won't sound the same with the Strat, although it would probably work too. But making IRs requires some skills

 

 

[Schmalle]

13 hours ago, fremen said:

The best IR you can use to simulate an electro-acoustic with an electric guitar is the one one you make yourself, in a specific pickup position. An IR made for a Telecaster neck pickup won't sound the same with the Strat, although it would probably work too. But making IRs requires some skills

... or a detailed instruction.

[PeterHamm]

14 hours ago, fremen said:

The best IR you can use to simulate an electro-acoustic with an electric guitar is the one one you make yourself, in a specific pickup position. An IR made for a Telecaster neck pickup won't sound the same with the Strat, although it would probably work too. But making IRs requires some skills

 

 

Talking about ACOUSTIC guitar IR, though...

And... nope... the best IR you can make is one you make yourself if you know EXACTLY what you are doing. (as you, admittedly, do say)

I know how to make my own, and I made my own IR of my acoustic guitar, and I STILL USE the 3 Sigma offerings instead, because they sound miles better, and probably nobody reading this is going to be able to make them as well as 3 Sigma do.

[soundog]

On 3/12/2021 at 10:09 PM, sonidojamon said:

.....I'll stick to my iRig Acoustic Stage mic + DSP system. It works great!! You should check it out!

 

Interesting. I tried the iRig mic and sent it back. For my guitar it was boomy and prone to feedback. Glad it works for you, though.The odd thing about acoustic guitars and amplifying them for stage is this.....

 

Some pickup and/or mic systems work perfectly and sound great for certain guitars and certain stage acoustics or band mixes. Others do not. It takes lots of experimentation to find something that works good for you. When you do find the right combination, its worth all the effort....

[fremen]

On 3/14/2021 at 9:57 PM, PeterHamm said:

Talking about ACOUSTIC guitar IR, though...

And... nope... the best IR you can make is one you make yourself if you know EXACTLY what you are doing. (as you, admittedly, do say)

I know how to make my own, and I made my own IR of my acoustic guitar, and I STILL USE the 3 Sigma offerings instead, because they sound miles better, and probably nobody reading this is going to be able to make them as well as 3 Sigma do.

Indeed, you need to know what you're doing. I've started using IRs around 2005, way before they became popular, and I've been making my own for 10+ years now. And yes, I wrote electro-acoustic instead of acoustic because, in my experience, simulating a real acoustic guitar falls short - it somehow sounds like a recorded acoustic, yes, but but not a great recording of one - not something I would use for recording. In my experience, simulating the piezo sound of an electro-acoustic works better with an electric pickup. I know that not anyone love piezo sounds though.
 

Of course, it's just MY experience, it may work much better for others.