I swear I'm trying..(Updated w/pix after 2.12 update)

[jordans0nly]

But this Helix and I arent getting along. Have had it almost 30 days, but man, I'm not sure if it's the Behringer F1220 monitor I'm using, or me, just not setting up patches well. 

 

I have no clue how to set sag, bias, ripple, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Plus, when playing on my Strat, all sc pickups, cant get a good dirt tone to save my life. Plus, just sounds like flub through that monitor. Like a wet blanket. 

 

Now yeah, yeah, I know it's not the best, but it will have to do for now. I've fooled around with IR's and diff cabs, still not a great tone. Maybe it's not cut out for me, lol, but man, I sure want it to work. 

 

Any ideas for someone struggling with it?

[shanecgriffo]

try cutting low frequencies more than you think you should.

[jordans0nly]

try cutting low frequencies more than you think you should.

 

I read around 70 - 90mhz?

[shanecgriffo]

try a bit more, maybe, up to 150 maybe -on the amp drop the bass a bit also and push up the mid control. see if it helps.. also changing mics can help a lot.

[Digital_Igloo]

Try decent high-impedance headphones. Try studio monitors. Jumping straight from a real tube amp to a modeler/PA rig can be very jarring. And remember, 50+% of your tone is determined by a B¢£™¶§@er PA speaker!

 

Sometimes it seems like there are people everywhere who buy a modeler and instantly say "Holy crap! This is amazing!" Chances are they've had some experience with tracking guitars with mics and know what they sound like from the control room. Or they're used to hearing them via in-ear monitors. The experience of a modeler into even the best FRFR speaker or $100k studio monitors is still very different from that of a roaring tube amp.

 

Best of luck on your journey!  :)

[jordans0nly]

Try decent high-impedance headphones. Try studio monitors. Jumping straight from a real tube amp to a modeler/PA rig can be very jarring. And remember, 50+% of your tone is determined by a B¢£™¶§@er PA speaker!

 

Sometimes it seems like there are people everywhere who buy a modeler and instantly say "Holy crap! This is amazing!" Chances are they've had some experience with tracking guitars with mics and know what they sound like from the control room. Or they're used to hearing them via in-ear monitors. The experience of a modeler into even the best FRFR speaker or $100k studio monitors is still very different from that of a roaring tube amp.

 

Best of luck on your journey!  :)

 

 

Thanks for the kind words. I'll try to see if it sounds better with some headphones. 

[roscoe5]

These Celestion IRs just came out this week. I have a JBL Eon and it is very difficult to get anything to sound good through it, including Helix cabs, Ownhamer, 3Sigma, Redwirez, etc.

 

I popped these in today and they worked great with that JBL Eon speaker right off the bat. I don't feel compelled to go drop $1000+ in a specialized FRFR guitar cab now. Haven't gigged with them yet though, but I think they will be great.

 

You can get single cab packs for 50% off...$6 each. They have a free demo V30 1x12 cab too.

 

https://www.celestionplus.com/

 

It's funny that I can get a patch sounding great with Ownhammer IRs through headphones and studio monitors, but then sounds weird through the JBLs, which is what we use for live mains and monitors. I actually thought the Celestion IRs sounded thinner than the Ownhammer IRs through headphones, but they work better with my JBLs...go figure.

[jordans0nly]

These Celestion IRs just came out this week. I have a JBL Eon and it is very difficult to get anything to sound good through it, including Helix cabs, Ownhamer, 3Sigma, Redwirez, etc.

 

I popped these in today and they worked great with that JBL Eon speaker right off the bat. I don't feel compelled to go drop $1000+ in a specialized FRFR guitar cab now. Haven't gigged with them yet though, but I think they will be great.

 

You can get single cab packs for 50% off...$6 each. They have a free demo V30 1x12 cab too.

 

https://www.celestionplus.com/

 

It's funny that I can get a patch sounding great with Ownhammer IRs through headphones and studio monitors, but then sounds weird through the JBLs, which is what we use for live mains and monitors. I actually thought the Celestion IRs sounded thinner than the Ownhammer IRs through headphones, but they work better with my JBLs...go figure.

 

Checking them out now. Thanks!

[DunedinDragon]

A lot of older speaker designs don't really incorporate features that make life easier when using the Helix with a monitor such as the ability to apply a low cut filter or a setting to adjust for bass buildup when used in the floor monitor position.  Also FRFR speakers and traditional amp cabs are designed very differently in that sound radiates in all directions from a traditional cab while FRFR speakers are very directional and are build for focused projection.  Here's a few things to try to see if you can overcome some of these differences when building a patch.

 

Make sure the speaker EQ is set flat with the volume setting, treble, mid, and bass are all set at 12 o'clock.

 

You may want to consider setting the speaker in the vertical position off of the floor at around head or shoulder height to overcome bass buildup.

 

Stand back from the speaker at least 6 foot to allow the speaker and compression driver room to merge the highs and lows adequately.

 

In your patch set a low cut filter at around 125 hz, possibly even higher up to even 150hz depending on how bass oriented the speaker is.  Also set a high cut filter, which can vary with the patch, and set it anywhere from 3800hz up to 8000hz.  These highs can be mitigated in other ways as well rather than using such a dramatic high cut.  For example, if you're using an IR that provides several variations of mic position, try using the variation that places the mic further out toward the rim rather than near the center of the cone.  With stock cabs you can often reduce some of the harshness by setting the mic distance further out to 6 inches or more.  Also make sure you have the master volume (big knob) on the Helix turned up to at least 40% to compensate for the Fletcher Munson curve effects at lower volumes.

 

As Digital Igloo mentioned, some folks struggle with the sonic differences between a traditional cabinet and a FRFR speaker setup, and a lot of that could very well be due to not having a lot of experience listening to guitar tracks in a recording studio setup which is going to be very different from a traditional amp.  Traditional amps tend to have more of a "roaring" quality whereas what you tend to listen to more in a studio is the articulation and clarity of the tone..even tones that are overdriven.

 

Good luck.

[Hoopington]

Sorry man, but you're trying to get a 1k modeller to sound good with cheap speakers......I'd suggest investing in some decent speakers, or, like you said, through some decent headphones.

[jbuhajla]

Try with headphones first to get things like you like them. Then go through the spreakers and adjust eq as necessary. 

 

It has nothing to do with your strat and single coils. I play strat/tele with single coils 95% of the time, and I am super happy with my presets using everything from Twin reverb to Mesa models. 

[zooey]

Just to say it, headphones will be different from everything else, different phones from each other, different FRFR speakers from each other, guitar cabs too if you go that way. I spent a fair while only in headphones when I first got my Helix, took some time to get happy, but I really did. Then I moved to medium low-end FRFRs (Alesis 12"), and everything I'd built chewed it, hard, pretty much had to start over.

 

So hopefully DI's advice will get you to a place where you can have fun, and start getting familiar with how to get around on Helix, and get the kinds of sounds you like, but you'll want to get decent real world monitoring as soon as you can.

[jaminjimlp]

Do exactly what this guy does making these patches and your you should have it just about it exactly the same sound except for of course the Les Paul's going to be a little bit different than your Strat but if it doesn't sound really close to this and in the strap model sound as good as that then it most likely is your speaker is affecting a little more than you think.

 

In my honest opinion I think these are some great tones.

 

 

 

 

 

[jordans0nly]

This may be long winded, but hey, want to try to be as honest as possible with my results. I took advice of one member to update to 2.12, which I was on 2.11 and wipe it, which I did. 

 

With that info, started a base patch, just started with 1a, was already preset. Then I just started to tweak to taste, with putting the Behringer at 12'o clock with the bass, treble and mids. 

 

1) Here's the start of the chain. Put the input gate on even without knowing what it did, but to my ears, seemed to help the tone. 

 

 

2) Just tweaked the comp to taste really.

 

 

3) Sorry for the blur. Also with this one, just messed around with the drive and tone. 

 

 

4) Just kept this Hiwatt model, and turned down the presence. 

 

 

5) On this, I watched a video, of someone that put in my initial thread of a guy doing this that way he can mix/match the cabs or IR's to taste. I tried it, and really liked the results. 

 

 

6) Now to the meat and potatoes. I already had downloaded some free Ownhammer IR's and added some in. I think the lowcut sounded really good. Not sure if that highcut is enough, or not enough. Thoughts? I did fool around with the Helix editor and to my ears, sounded really good. 

 

 

7) Here's the output. Not sure how much that plays into anything, but wanted to show you guys. 

 

 

8) Simple delay. Just trying to add a little sizzle to the sound. 

 

 

9) As you can see, the 2nd Ownhammer IR and just tweaked that one a little different from the 1st. Was trying to make the one sound a little more closer and the other a little ways back from the sound, but sounded really good mixed. 

 

 

10) And the verb. Not sure what verb's are supposed to be set at, but just tweaked till I liked it. 

 

So that's just one patch I was messing with. Now like I said earlier, had the controls on the Behringer at 12'o clock. After setting the patch, then just moved the dials where I liked them. 

Now, I have a very usable patch, very surprised. 

 

I think what I did wrong was have an amp, then cab, AND an IR. Just didnt cross my mind that it was like running a cab in a cab. Go figure. But, live and learn. Thanks a lot for the thoughts, suggestions and just helping a dummy out. 

 

But yes, I'm looking at either a Tech 21 PE 60, or Alto TS210 (newer model). I'm probably just going to trade in the Behringer at GC, then take that money and use the 15% discount I got in my email and pick up something better probably next week. 

 

[DirtFarmer]

I'm probably just going to trade in the Behringer at GC, then take that money and use the 15% discount I got in my email and pick up something better probably next week. 

 

 

Try selling it on Craigslist.  GC is terrible with trade in value.  They take the lowest sold items on ebay and give you 60% of that price.  Most ebay listings are about 60% of retail, so your going to get roughly 30% of retail for trade in.  You could probably get 50% from selling it yourself.  Of course it will take some time and effort.

[jordans0nly]

Try selling it on Craigslist.  GC is terrible with trade in value.  They take the lowest sold items on ebay and give you 60% of that price.  Most ebay listings are about 60% of retail, so your going to get roughly 30% of retail for trade in.  You could probably get 50% from selling it yourself.  Of course it will take some time and effort.

 

Touche. 

[jbuhajla]

On your IRs, if you have the mix at 75%, 25% of your signal is going through the IR not being processed. It is like running 25% of your signal straight out of the amp model. 

 

Crank the mix on your IRs to 100% to hear the difference. 

[jordans0nly]

On your IRs, if you have the mix at 75%, 25% of your signal is going through the IR not being processed. It is like running 25% of your signal straight out of the amp model. 

 

Crank the mix on your IRs to 100% to hear the difference. 

 

100% on both? 

[jbuhajla]

Yep. If not, you are passing a portion of the signal signal by them which will be quite harsh. Think of it as passing 25% of your signal from your power amp past your speaker (cabinet) directly to the PA (figuratively speaking of course). You are running two IRs in parallel and you want all of the signal going to the IR to be processed to sound like it is all coming out of the cabinet. 

 

Things get a little strange in the Helix world because you can do things that are normally impossible in a "real" rig (like sending 75% of your signal to a speaker). 

[jordans0nly]

Yep. If not, you are passing a portion of the signal signal by them which will be quite harsh. Think of it as passing 25% of your signal from your power amp past your speaker (cabinet) directly to the PA (figuratively speaking of course). You are running two IRs in parallel and you want all of the signal going to the IR to be processed to sound like it is all coming out of the cabinet. 

 

Things get a little strange in the Helix world because you can do things that are normally impossible in a "real" rig (like sending 75% of your signal to a speaker). 

 

Makes sense. I'll change those in a bit, thanks again. 

[telewest]

I like these discussions, always interesting, one little thing that might make a little difference to the set up in the photos is if you place the delay after the irs it might brighten your sound a little and then use your amp eq to taste just a thought

[Joepeggio]

Just to make sure, you started with a factory preset 1a?

 

Start with user 1, 1a (New Preset) and build from scratch. I have yet to like the factory stuff.

 

grab the Arch Clean amp only. Then grab the interstate 2×12 cab. see how that sounds.

[Verne-Bunsen]

100% on both (IRs)?

Definitey, for the reasons jbuhajla points out. If you want to change how much of your signal is going through each of the IRs, do that at the split using an A/B. 100% "A" will send everything to the top IR, 100% "B" will send everything through the bottom IR, and in-between you can balance between the two however you like.

[jaminjimlp]

Do exactly what this guy does making these patches and your you should have it just about it exactly the same sound except for of course the Les Paul's going to be a little bit different than your Strat but if it doesn't sound really close to this and in the strap model sound as good as that then it most likely is your speaker is affecting a little more than you think.

 

In my honest opinion I think these are some great tones.

 

 

 

 

 

Did anyone try this??? They sound great, before the PRS amp models I used these exclusively and even made a preset with all 3 in 1... there was only 1 reverb block that I couldn't squeeze in there but now with the 2.0 FW coming and the optimizing of some FX to save DSP it may! I will share the preset if anyone is interested...

[EdwinV]

Curious if you are digging the Helix better now. Setting the IRs to 100% mix should help a lot (try what happens if you bypass them! - and do that on low volume).

 

I must say that I don't understand that people immediately start with IRs. I think this only makes things more difficult in the beginning. The Helix has one of the best UIs I've ever seen (reminded me of the first iPad), but I certainly needed some time to get used to a modeler (though I had a POD 2.0 before). Having all these controls can be a bit overwhelming, specially for someone that came from a Marshall 2061X.

I must say that getting an Alto TS210 helped a lot. That really improved the experience; though the Altos may not be the best that money can, I think they're more than decent powered speakers that really help the Helix experience.

 

Cheers!

[mileskb]

These Celestion IRs just came out this week. I have a JBL Eon and it is very difficult to get anything to sound good through it, including Helix cabs, Ownhamer, 3Sigma, Redwirez, etc.

 

I popped these in today and they worked great with that JBL Eon speaker right off the bat. I don't feel compelled to go drop $1000+ in a specialized FRFR guitar cab now. Haven't gigged with them yet though, but I think they will be great.

 

You can get single cab packs for 50% off...$6 each. They have a free demo V30 1x12 cab too.

 

https://www.celestionplus.com/

 

It's funny that I can get a patch sounding great with Ownhammer IRs through headphones and studio monitors, but then sounds weird through the JBLs, which is what we use for live mains and monitors. I actually thought the Celestion IRs sounded thinner than the Ownhammer IRs through headphones, but they work better with my JBLs...go figure.

 

You might contact Scott at theHelixChannel.  I think he uses the JBL EON (not positive about this) monitors for everything, but maybe he has a trick up his sleeve.

[specracer986]

The OP initially complained he couldn't get a good crunch tone. I don't see where he has his MV set. On all of the Helix amps, if you want more power section distortion, turn up the MV.

[jordans0nly]

Sorry for the late responses, been dealing with personal issues. Havent even fooled with the IR volumes yet, but will. 

[Thurston9]

Did anyone try this??? They sound great, before the PRS amp models I used these exclusively and even made a preset with all 3 in 1... there was only 1 reverb block that I couldn't squeeze in there but now with the 2.0 FW coming and the optimizing of some FX to save DSP it may! I will share the preset if anyone is interested...

Cool video, and I plan to try some of his advice when I have a chance.  I'm interested in the preset it you want to send/post it.

[erniedenov]

Just to say it, headphones will be different from everything else, different phones from each other, different FRFR speakers from each other, guitar cabs too if you go that way. I spent a fair while only in headphones when I first got my Helix, took some time to get happy, but I really did. Then I moved to medium low-end FRFRs (Alesis 12"), and everything I'd built chewed it, hard, pretty much had to start over.

 

I started out with just the headphone jack for the first few weeks too. When I got an FRFR powered speaker about a month later, those patches I made sounded bad, too much bass and treble frequencies. I turned the global EQ on (which was bypassed when I was making my headphone jack patches) and used the high and low cuts; basically tweaking the lows on my most bass heavy patch and the highs on my brightest clean patch. Then some subtle adjustments to the global after listening to all of my patches. I still had to tweak everything a little from patch to patch, but that global EQ got me in the ballpark and I didn't have to start over from scratch.

 

At first, I had my powered speaker sitting on the floor and was amazed at how much low cut I had to use. Then someone here that has the same speaker told me that it's boomy when it sits on the floor like that (which makes sense; it's resonating with the surface) and I needed a pole or an amp stand. I got myself a pole and had to start over with the global EQ. It's sounding pretty great now and I'm confident that what's coming out of that speaker is pretty close to what's being heard through the FOH.

 

It's been a learning experience for all of us, but very much worth the time invested!