datacommando Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Just an odd sidenote. My wife often walks her dog with Howard Kaylan's (Eddie) wife. Not close personal friends or anything. Way cool - but, are they "Happy Together"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 All great suggestions! If you want to start with rock tunes that although unique have a more familiar FM friendly format I have to agree with PeterHamm that 'Joe's Garage' is definitely one to start with as a point of entry. I would add 'Apostrophe' and 'Overnight Sensation' to that list as well as I think they are great places to start to wet your ears with Frank Zappa. It depends to some extent on which part of his repertoire you prefer to start with, his music ranged from from funky Doo-whop to bawdy, deranged, filthy, and outrageously funny lyrics and high jinks during the Flo & Eddie years (formerly of the Turtles), rock tunes that were mildly radio friendly and many great rockers that never appeared on radio but should have, jazz fusion, classical, and everything in between. One of my favorite albums is also 'Zoot Allures' which is again I think one of his more accessible entry points. This is a deep mine with many dark corners to explore and diamonds to be found. If you really like more eclectic music start with bradlake's suggestions although they reflect a more refined and experienced Zappa fan's preferences but also provide a nice chronological journey; they may not be the ideal place to start for many primarily rock listeners but tastes vary. Your thoughts are spot on. As one of my goals in life is to turn the uninitiated on to this ridiculously underappreciated artist, I seem to come up with different answers constantyl to this same question, Where do I start? Nowadays, with the music streaming paradigm having taken over, the opportunities to check out artists entire catalog is easier than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 A few of Frank Zappa's Youtube videos. There is too much there to begin to provide a comprehensive list but here are a few from the albums I listed as well as a complete version of 'Joe's Garage', some Flo & Eddie (The Turtles), and a general sampler of FZ's material. (The Best Of Frank Zappa: compilation, nice! Not a bad place to start listening to Zappa)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksnwEsPKO5s (Zombie Woof)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsfq8eBwApw (Excentrifugal Forz)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUhRBq8UiL0 (Zoot Allures: live version)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-sREpqDiUo (I'm The Slime)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQW892F_Vbk&list=PLpgKPiQg8j7hn0Tv-cGsqCgrJ1lxJ4XvT&index=2 (Black Napkins)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nllWDc8_9lw (Camarillo Brillo)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2Ae0X5v_gA&list=PLpgKPiQg8j7hn0Tv-cGsqCgrJ1lxJ4XvT&index=8 (Zoot Allures)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpNn1nht0_8 (Yellow Snow & St. Alphonso's Breakfast: Studio)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0elpH46dOyQ (Yellow Snow & St. Alphonso's Breakfast: Frank Zappa live)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H62qun0_gFw (Yellow Snow & St. Alphonso's Breakfast: live version with Dweezil instead of Frank)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtx4ZJ1cwI0 (Cosmik Debris)ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp6LT2MdaPI (Cosmik Debris: live version)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZZf7F9V36A&list=PLpgKPiQg8j7hn0Tv-cGsqCgrJ1lxJ4XvT&index=1 (Wind Up Working In A Gas Station)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQW892F_Vbk&list=PLpgKPiQg8j7hn0Tv-cGsqCgrJ1lxJ4XvT&index=2 (Black Napkins)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b539Bx_ubM&list=PLpgKPiQg8j7hn0Tv-cGsqCgrJ1lxJ4XvT&index=9 (Disco Boy) (Joe's Garage: entire album) (Live at the Fillmore West with Flo & Eddie and interviews; adult supervision required) Excellent! What a great thread this has evolved into...talk about making lemonade out of lemons...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 WOW....never saw that Fillmore West Flo and Eddie video before..........pure gold! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Love me some Zappa! I never got the chance to see him live unfortunately. I've got my tix for Dweezil in April in SF. This will be the 4th time I've seen him.. and he never disappoints!Caught him earlier this month in Ft Lauderdale....the latest incarnation of his band may be the best yet (lead singer Ben is gone, replaced by multiinstrumentalist/vocalist Dave and amazingly talented and hot singer/guitarist Cian) . Dweezil has been beset recently by really nasty family trust issues, which became public some months ago, and various horrible lawsuits are pending, so he can use all the support he can, go see and enjoy him, and if you want to learn a bit more about his situation and how you can help, go herehttp://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/othersofintention HTTP://WWW.DWEEZILZAPPA.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Wow!!! I can't believe this thread started out so lame and then mutated into one of my favorite subjects....Frank Zappa!!! However, I can't believe with all the Frank Freaks on here that no one bothered to mention one of his most creative double albums that featured probably his most proficient touring band at the height of his creativity. That would be the "You Are What You Is" album. It's probably not as appreciated as some of his others because this was during the Reagan era when Frank got on a rant about the TV Evangelists and probably ticked a lot of people off. But that's just Frank's way. As it turns out he was pretty spot on with his evaluation of that movement which was trying to interject religion into politics. But it sure turned out one amazing album of incredible Zappa compositions his sharp as a razor wit and sarcasm. I saw this tour live (I'd seen him 3 times previously) and this one blew me away. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJqeunh95emACssEs1gYSqG-jaSPHGLGo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Wow!!! I can't believe this thread started out so lame and then mutated into one of my favorite subjects....Frank Zappa!!! However, I can't believe with all the Frank Freaks on here that no one bothered to mention one of his most creative double albums that featured probably his most proficient touring band at the height of his creativity. That would be the "You Are What You Is" album. It's probably not as appreciated as some of his others because this was during the Reagan era when Frank got on a rant about the TV Evangelists and probably ticked a lot of people off. But that's just Frank's way. As it turns out he was pretty spot on with his evaluation of that movement which was trying to interject religion into politics. But it sure turned out one amazing album of incredible Zappa compositions his sharp as a razor wit and sarcasm. I saw this tour live (I'd seen him 3 times previously) and this one blew me away. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJqeunh95emACssEs1gYSqG-jaSPHGLGo Great album. I also like the expression on franks face on the album cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erniedenov Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Also who is Frank Zappa and why do I care? Now I think I feel sorry for you. Great to see so many Zappa fans here! Being as old as I am, the first two albums I ever bought were "Meet The Beatles" and "Freak Out!" I saw The Mothers of Invention in the '70s when Ainsley Dunbar was the drummer and Flo and Eddy were the lead singers. It was great, though I wish I'd seen him much more than that. As for recommending Zappa to a newbie, I'd pick "One Size Fits All." Or if you want to dig in deep, get the 3 disc set, "Lather." It's a lot to absorb, but you'll get the full scope of what he was all about, from do-wop to progressive rock/jazz fusion to smutty comedy and/or political satire to modern classical music to rock 'n roll... and on and on. His musical scope was all over the map! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Great to see so many Zappa fans here! Being as old as I am, the first two albums I ever bought were "Meet The Beatles" and "Freak Out!" I saw The Mothers of Invention in the '70s when Ainsley Dunbar was the drummer and Flo and Eddy were the lead singers. It was great, though I wish I'd seen him much more than that. As for recommending Zappa to a newbie, I'd pick "One Size Fits All." Or if you want to dig in deep, get the 3 disc set, "Lather." It's a lot to absorb, but you'll get the full scope of what he was all about, from do-wop to progressive rock/jazz fusion to smutty comedy and/or political satire to modern classical music to rock 'n roll... and on and on. His musical scope was all over the map! However, if you REALLY want to get a feel for who Frank Zappa was (which really helps you get a feel for what's behind his music), I'd recommend watching the documentary "Eat That Question" which is a compilation of Frank Zappa interviews over his career and lifetime that came out last year. Absolutely fascinating and it's available for streaming on Amazon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 However, if you REALLY want to get a feel for who Frank Zappa was (which really helps you get a feel for what's behind his music), I'd recommend watching the documentary "Eat That Question" which is a compilation of Frank Zappa interviews over his career and lifetime that came out last year. Absolutely fascinating and it's available for streaming on Amazon.Yes! It is great, also coming sometime this century is the project started by Alex Winter (controversial documentary director, and either Bill or Ted (the one that isn't Keanu) in collarboration with the Zappa Family Trust using archived tapes from the Vault, currently being restored..we shall see how that develops...HTTP://WWW.ZAPPAMOVIE.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erniedenov Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 However, if you REALLY want to get a feel for who Frank Zappa was (which really helps you get a feel for what's behind his music), I'd recommend watching the documentary "Eat That Question" which is a compilation of Frank Zappa interviews over his career and lifetime that came out last year. Absolutely fascinating and it's available for streaming on Amazon. Saw it; enjoyed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Saw it; enjoyed it! At the Music Box? I went to the premiere there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talwilkins Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Wow!!! I can't believe this thread started out so lame and then mutated into one of my favorite subjects....Frank Zappa!!! However, I can't believe with all the Frank Freaks on here that no one bothered to mention one of his most creative double albums that featured probably his most proficient touring band at the height of his creativity. That would be the "You Are What You Is" album. It's probably not as appreciated as some of his others because this was during the Reagan era when Frank got on a rant about the TV Evangelists and probably ticked a lot of people off. But that's just Frank's way. As it turns out he was pretty spot on with his evaluation of that movement which was trying to interject religion into politics. But it sure turned out one amazing album of incredible Zappa compositions his sharp as a razor wit and sarcasm. I saw this tour live (I'd seen him 3 times previously) and this one blew me away. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJqeunh95emACssEs1gYSqG-jaSPHGLGo Absolutely one ofe my top favorites!!!It genius from start to finish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talwilkins Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I'm so happy to see there are many Zappa fans on this forum. Up untill now his name barely ever got mentioned. I was alsmost convinced I was alone. Zappa has been my hero for alomost 35 Years and something Zappa related goes through my head every single day. Be it music or some quote or lyric. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erniedenov Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 At the Music Box? I went to the premiere there. Starz, the only premium cable channel I have has been showing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclement Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yes! It is great, also coming sometime this century is the project started by Alex Winter (controversial documentary director, and either Bill or Ted (the one that isn't Keanu) in collarboration with the Zappa Family Trust using archived tapes from the Vault, currently being restored..we shall see how that develops... HTTP://WWW.ZAPPAMOVIE.COM Alas the Zappa house is divided on this. Ahmet and Diva (who have the controlling interest in the ZFT) are for it.. and Dweezil and Moon are not. Gail - from what I have read - was not great at the finance side of things and the ZFT is in debt. The house was sold... so the "vault" is no more.. but hopefully the tapes have been relocated somewhere safe and protected. It's really sad that Ahmet and Diva are trying to make themselves look like the "saviors of Zappa" when it's really been Dweezil out there doing the shows and keeping Frank's music alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Alas the Zappa house is divided on this. Ahmet and Diva (who have the controlling interest in the ZFT) are for it.. and Dweezil and Moon are not. Gail - from what I have read - was not great at the finance side of things and the ZFT is in debt. The house was sold... so the "vault" is no more.. but hopefully the tapes have been relocated somewhere safe and protected. It's really sad that Ahmet and Diva are trying to make themselves look like the "saviors of Zappa" when it's really been Dweezil out there doing the shows and keeping Frank's music alive. Yes, I try to avoid discussing this in public and forums because it is all so sad and seemingly unnecessary, and hope that we can see a reasonable resolution in the near future. The vaults contents are in the very good hands of Joe Travers, Zappa Vaultmeister for decades, and Dweezil's drummer for some time. Joe is supervising the restoration of the rapidly decaying media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twystedriffs Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Here is a link to a quick video I did this morning. Not going to apologize for using a cell phone in the floor, or the fact I am not playing my tele. I am using my custom epi with the coil split. Obviously the original video of Andy's track has a harmony overdub. But you can tell my tone is pretty dang close. I was going to tweak to further duplicate, but no real need too, this should prove the helix is more than capable of this sound. If I used my tele and tracked a few layers, you wouldnt be able to tell the difference in a blind test would be my guess.. but yall tell me? Eat a hat or no? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twystedriffs Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Also, Frank Zappa was so incredible. Dweezil's Zappa plays Zappa was quite impressive for those of us that never saw Frank live. I wish Frank, Stu Copeland, and Les Claypool had made an album somehow.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twystedriffs Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Just for fun.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verne-Bunsen Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Open mouth, insert hat. That sounds really, really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Open mouth, insert hat. That sounds really, really good. Yes , sounds very good ...cant wait to see what disparaging or ungrateful response The OP will give, if he hasn't yet given up after all the FZ adulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verne-Bunsen Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Yes , sounds very good ...cant wait to see what disparaging or ungrateful response The OP will give, if he hasn't yet given up after all the FZ adulation. I un-ignored the guy out of morbid curiosity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Also, Frank Zappa was so incredible. Dweezil's Zappa plays Zappa was quite impressive for those of us that never saw Frank live. I wish Frank, Stu Copeland, and Les Claypool had made an album somehow.. I bet Les would've liked that too. He wears his Zappa influence proudly .....Very nice job with the Summers thing, but don't expect to impress the OP, unless he has had a change in attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I un-ignored the guy out of morbid curiosity... ...don't often say this, but...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twystedriffs Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Well, if he is gone, than we can talk normally. And thanks, I honestly expected to come in and tweak a little, but I spent enough time on it originally, it sounded pretty close as it was. Doing a Police tribute I try to get a little closer than I would on just regular covers. So I have about 15 police presets, all mine, all pretty close. Wish yall could hear my drummer, he kills it, it amazes me nonstop.. ill try to find a clip of us live.. that being said, this was a very tuff sound, but I had it good on X3live, helix is even better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I un-ignored the guy out of morbid curiosity... Lol...If there's any justice in the universe, he's found a new audience to pester with his weird fixation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I had to post one more video of Steve Vai and Frank Zappa absolutely tearing it up with dueling and complementary solos. Other than Steve Vai's shall we say "unfortunate" choice of stage attire, a rather appalling fashion fail given that Disco was already dead, this is a great video. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsslash Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Here is a link to a quick video I did this morning. Not going to apologize for using a cell phone in the floor, or the fact I am not playing my tele. I am using my custom epi with the coil split. Obviously the original video of Andy's track has a harmony overdub. But you can tell my tone is pretty dang close. I was going to tweak to further duplicate, but no real need too, this should prove the helix is more than capable of this sound. If I used my tele and tracked a few layers, you wouldnt be able to tell the difference in a blind test would be my guess.. but yall tell me? Eat a hat or no? It is certainly on the right track and I do appreciate you putting that up, but I'm sure you can tell it is still missing more than just the harmony. There's a tad too much distortion and the voicing isn't quite right, most likely because you didn't use both chorus and flanger. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talwilkins Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Lol...If there's any justice in the universe, he's found a new audience to pester with his weird fixation. No that's being cruel to the new audience who probably doesn't deserve it. No, if there's any justice in th eUniverse, he became aware of his behaviour, curled up in a corner felling ashamed and came out after a few days and apologized to all of us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHamm Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Well, there's been a handful of guys on this forum (I've seen this on others as well) who came in guns-blazing full-on toll-mode who settled down and became just great.It can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 It is certainly on the right track and I do appreciate you putting that up, but I'm sure you can tell it is still missing more than just the harmony. There's a tad too much distortion and the voicing isn't quite right, most likely because you didn't use both chorus and flanger.So, since you are going to use this thread to help you decide whether or not to buy Helix, I think you now have your answer. You can buy it with confidence knowing that you now have a preset that is on the right track, and you know exactly what you need to do to make it perfect. Add harmony, less distortion, use both chorus and flanger. Enjoy your Helix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twystedriffs Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Like I said, I could have tweaked it to perfection, but this is the tone I use live, so it probably has a little more dirt to it. But you can tell its very close, I didn't feel a need to spend much time with it, but hopefully you can admit it can be done! Who you jivin with that cosmic debrit? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Like I said, I could have tweaked it to perfection, but this is the tone I use live, so it probably has a little more dirt to it. But you can tell its very close, I didn't feel a need to spend much time with it, but hopefully you can admit it can be done! Who you jivin with that cosmic debrit? Well I like it enough to ask if u would post the preset, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twystedriffs Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Debris..dang voice texting.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Alas the Zappa house is divided on this. Ahmet and Diva (who have the controlling interest in the ZFT) are for it.. and Dweezil and Moon are not. Gail - from what I have read - was not great at the finance side of things and the ZFT is in debt. The house was sold... so the "vault" is no more.. but hopefully the tapes have been relocated somewhere safe and protected. It's really sad that Ahmet and Diva are trying to make themselves look like the "saviors of Zappa" when it's really been Dweezil out there doing the shows and keeping Frank's music alive. Im looking forward to the Zappa tribute album that Gaga will inevitably release from her new basement studio.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlake Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I had to post one more video of Steve Vai and Frank Zappa absolutely tearing it up with dueling and complementary solos. Other than Steve Vai's shall we say "unfortunate" choice of stage attire, a rather appalling fashion fail given that Disco was already dead, this is a great video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEnzdp71U78 Yes it is , and it is very possible that Mr. Vai's outfit may have been specifically chosen by his employer, he often made his band members dress to his whim., I remember being astonished by Adrian Belew on stage in a muu-muu (look it up) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twystedriffs Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Hey Bradlake. I dont mind sharing, keep in mind I play through amps, so you will have to add your own cabs or IR's. I am at work currently, but check back later! Thanks, glad you enjoy it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erniedenov Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Here is a link to a quick video I did this morning. Not going to apologize for using a cell phone in the floor, or the fact I am not playing my tele. I am using my custom epi with the coil split. Obviously the original video of Andy's track has a harmony overdub. But you can tell my tone is pretty dang close. I was going to tweak to further duplicate, but no real need too, this should prove the helix is more than capable of this sound. If I used my tele and tracked a few layers, you wouldnt be able to tell the difference in a blind test would be my guess.. but yall tell me? Eat a hat or no? Quite good! I noticed that on the F# chord, you slid the G# up to the A. When I learned that tune for the cover band I tour with, I assumed (for no particular reason) that the F# chord was barred at the second fret and you catch the A note on the (barred) G string. It's not so easy to do with a Fender scale length! So out of curiosity, I checked out a few live Police videos on YT to see how Andy played it. I never did quite figure it out (since most people who film concerts seem to have ADD), but... I noticed that he was playing a different guitar in each concert; a Strat in one, a Tele in another one and an ES-335 in yet another. Obviously, they all sounded a bit different and the amount of gain was subtly different each time too. It made me think that if the original artist doesn't care to nail his exact tone from the studio recording, why should we sweat about it?! Just rambling! But at any rate, nice job! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twystedriffs Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Exactly! One thing people dont realize about the police, they were kinda a jam band! Very rarely do you see two similar versions of the same song live. I have seen message done fast and heavy, slower and cleaner, with keys, alot of improv. And his tone is always vastly different from the recorded version. The only reason I tried to nail these tones closely was as a tribute band, people expect it. The more you watch Andy live, the more you realize how much he changes things. I learned it this way with the slide, it's just easier to play consistantly live for me. Every breath you take is the finger killer! I am usually more of a harder rock player, but learning police songs have given me huge appreciation for Andy's style and ability. We have taken alot of ideas from their live concerts, the jam riff at the end of world is running down they do in Tokyo for example. Not on the album, but gives the whole song more dynamics live. So we stole that. Whether the tone or the song itself, as long as the main feel is there, you should have a little freedom around the edges.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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