Helix/DT amp integration on the way!

[gtrman100]

If anyone has been checking out the information coming out of NAAM, Line 6 has announced that (finally!) with the release of Helix Core, DT amps will be fully integrated through the Line 6 Link connection. It will connect fully just like the HD series does, so you can control topology, class a/ab, triode pentode and preamp model. An added bonus is that you will be able to control all these parameters via Snapshot on the Helix. So cool!

[MIKEY9966]

so happy i  didn't sell my 2 DT 25 amps , line 6 rocks i thought it would never happen, i wounder how far they will good with this, imagine all the amps in helix  this is going to be good

[Matt_Brown]

Nothing in the press about this....

[silverhead]

26 minutes ago, Matt_Brown said:

Nothing in the press about this....

 

???? Here it is......

 

 

[BucF16]

Looking for some clarification on how much DT control you will get from 2.80.  Will it be just front panel stuff or will we be able to control the preamp/reverb/cabinet/Other settings inside the amp that are currently only controllable via user created apps.

[klangmaler]

DI said (quoted from TGP):

"We have a definition, but it's not 100% set in stone yet. So far it's a total of 12 parameters, so not everything, but certainly the important stuff.

I should stress that implementation is *nothing like* how DT works with POD HD." (!!!)

[klangmaler]

DI on TGP:

"None of this is 100% set in stone, but here's how we hope DT integration will work:
From the Output block, page over until you see the DT parameters. Knob 1 determines whether DT control is Off, Per Preset, or Global. Knob 2 focuses any subsequent parameters to control DT#1, DT#2, or Both (for linked stereo operation). The remaining parameters act as remote switches/knobs for the focused DT(s): Channel (A assumes modeling from Helix, B activates the DT preamp models), Topology I/II/III/IV, Power Amp Class A/Class A/B, Tube Config Pentode/Triode, Cab Voicing On/Off, Reverb Type, Reverb Mix, 12AX7 Boost Bypass/Enable [DT50 only], Feedback Cap X/Y [DT50 only], and B+ Voltage Low/High [DT50 only].
There's no automapping of DT parameters to the current amp model in Helix. (How could it? You can add four amps.) There's no auto-linking of bypass states. It's just a glorified remote control, albeit one with preset recall and where any parameter can be assigned to a controller or snapshot in three seconds. Clearly different, but IMHO, way cleaner and easier to grok than what we did before."

[talonmm]

In response to DI's comments on TGP.

 

I am just a simple man....  In the old days, I hooked up  the HD 500x to my dt25 or dt50.  I'd create and/or select a tone from the HD 500x, and using the Line 6 link connection, I would hear that tone through the dt amp.  The amp and tone sounded amazing together!

 

No matter what tone I switched to, the HD 500x and amp worked great together.  Somehow the HD 500x would figure out what voice and channel was needed on the amp to match the tone.

 

When the Helix came along, some knowledgeable users were able to manipulate settings on the Helix to achieve similar results.  I was never able to get it to work.  However, hooking up my dt amps to the helix using the Line 6 Link connection seemed to work fine and the direct link produced great tones.  However, as good as it sounded, I knew the Helix was not optimizing the amp for the best possible sounds.

 

So in English, can't the upcoming Helix update just determine the best dt configuration to match the modeled amp?  I am not sure after reading the above passage from DI if an automatic command or commands sent to the hd amp will be offered, but it sounds like it won't be.

 

 

[jegarcia]

Helix here I come!!!!

 

This is great news. I think the DT25 is a killer amp with any effects processor.

 

L6 please get the english guy that does the YouTube videos to explain this. He is awesome.

[msilvacoelho]

Great news, I thought this would never happen. Was fooling around last night with the  Helix DT template, Midi control and the 4 cable method and was really impressed with what is possible.

[TLysecki]

I know this hasn't been active in a while, but is it safe to assume HX Effects won't get this capability because it doesn't have the L6 Link? I do what I can with MIDI commands but it sure would be nice to have this functionality baked in instead of arbitrary numbers controlling different parameters (who can remember what 13 or 19 mean when you just want less gain?)

[sadrian]

From the info that is floating around, I get that the new „DT Integration“ is basically nothing more than a nicer way to send instant CC messages to the DT amps. Which is what the Helix already can do, but it takes a list of commands and setting them for each preset. And with a limit of 6 instant commands, that can be quite tricky.

 

@talonmm

The DTs can be set to „model + defaults“ with one command per channel, means even now you can send one midi command from Helix to DT and it‘ll set preamp model with default setting and the complete power amp configuration. The big difference is, that the DT doesn‘t send it’s settings back to the Helix, so when you turn a knob, Helix doesn‘t know that it happened.

 

In my Helix patches, I set the DT to a model+defaults, than I reset the preamp and use one in the Helix. This way I have the power amp set all right with only two commands. Three actually, because I set the channel of the amp to A as default.

[karmicfreak]

After 7 years in HD land, I upgraded to a Helix LT yesterday. Can’t wait to hook it up to my DT25 and find out how those 2 great tastes taste great together!

[talonmm]

On 4/4/2019 at 4:31 PM, sadrian said:

@talonmm

The DTs can be set to „model + defaults“ with one command per channel, means even now you can send one midi command from Helix to DT and it‘ll set preamp model with default setting and the complete power amp configuration. The big difference is, that the DT doesn‘t send it’s settings back to the Helix, so when you turn a knob, Helix doesn‘t know that it happened.

 

In my Helix patches, I set the DT to a model+defaults, than I reset the preamp and use one in the Helix. This way I have the power amp set all right with only two commands. Three actually, because I set the channel of the amp to A as default.

 

Thank you for trying to show me the way - but this is way too complicated for me.  Where in a helix patch do you set the dt to a model + defaults.  and what commands to you use?

[PDKTDK]

On 4/7/2019 at 9:43 PM, karmicfreak said:

After 7 years in HD land, I upgraded to a Helix LT yesterday. Can’t wait to hook it up to my DT25 and find out how those 2 great tastes taste great together!

I've been offered a Helix in the box by a friend for $800.

 

I get great sound with my 500x and DT50.  Should I make the switch?

 

I'd love to hear everybodys' thoughts.  Especially given the new update.

[sadrian]

@PDKTDK I use two Helix with DT50 212 combo and stack, sometimes with a DT25 head + 112.

 

I still have a HD500. I really like the sound I get out of the DTs solo but I was never satisfied with the sound of the «dream rig».

 

When I bought the first  Helix, that changed. I tried all connection methods (2/4/27-cables, L6-Link). I settled on basically two configurations: L6-Link+Midi and 4-cable. I still like the sound of the DT integrated preamp a little better than the same models in the Helix. I can't really "hear" but "feel" it. We tried it in a blind test in the rehearsal room once and me and our other guitarist (who is a tube-purist) both found the integrated preamps to feel more "responsive" and "alive" than the Helix. But recorded, you don't hear the difference.

 

The Helix is super versatile, and foremost a creative tool because of its very intuitive user interface. I still use some pedals with it, especially the new Strymon Volante.

 

In a nutshell: I really dig that combination. and I'm really looking forward for a hopefully easier DT integration with firmware 2.8. I'd go for it.

[sadrian]

On 4/26/2019 at 1:23 PM, talonmm said:

 

Thank you for trying to show me the way - but this is way too complicated for me.  Where in a helix patch do you set the dt to a model + defaults.  and what commands to you use?

 

@talonmm It really isn't that difficult.

 

The Helix has a section called "Command Center" (owners manual rev. D p45). Here you can "attach" different kinds of midi commands to each switch and up to 6 "instant commands". These are midi commands that get sent out when the preset is loaded (or snapshot). With a midi CC command on a switch you can use the Helix like a traditional amp-switch-pedal, to change channel or topology, or reverb on/off, etc. With a midi CC "instant command", you can set the DT amp to the settings you like to go with the preset when loaded.

 

Try this:

• Connect your Helix midi out to your DT midi in.
• Set your DT Channel A to Topology 2 and switch to Channel B (just so you can see/hear the changes later)
• Create a new preset on the Helix.
• Go to the Command Center on the Helix (Menu > Command Center)
• Navigate to the first flash icon in the upper row.
• Set it to "Command = "Midi CC", Midi Ch = "Base (1)", CC# = "19", Value = "0" (will set DT to Channel A)
• Navigate to the second flash icon in the upper row.
• Set it to "Command = "Midi CC", Midi Ch = "Base (1)", CC# = "11", Value = "1" (will set DT amp model + all default values)
• Save the preset.
• Reload the preset (by pressing the preset-switch again or changing preset back and forth)

If you follow this, as soon as you call up this preset, your DT will switch to Channel A with "Blackface Double Normal" as model with all its defaults (Topology I, Class A/B, Pentode).

 

A list of all midi CC commands for the DT series in the "midi implementation guide", the pdf is linked here.

 

If you want to use the Helix's preamps, than you can turn off the preamp in the DT (CC#11, Value 0). When I do that, I first set an amp with defaults that I like (i.e. CC#11, Value 0 for the Brit J-75 model) and as second command I send CC#11, Value 0 to deactivate the preamp-model of the amp. That way, the power amp section will be set to work like the "Marshall-esque" models.  In Helix I then use a "Preamp" block that I like to go with that.

 

Basically, this is how the "Dream Rig" (POD HD + DT) works. The difference is that the POD gets information from the DT's knobs and buttons so you can make changes there instead of the floorboard.

 

If this is still to much for you, then wait a little for firmware 2.8. It seems that Line6 implemented the control of up to two DT amps over L6-Link in the menu of the Helix. IMO this will do exactly the same as my method above (very basic one way midi commands), but it'll be more accessible for sure.

 

Hope that helps a little.

[PDKTDK]

@sadrian thanks so much for your generosity.  With the L6 + midi, are you able to put effects behind the amp? Delay for instance?

 

I guess what I am asking is with the midi control and L6 are you getting the same virtual options the HD w' L6 gives you?

[sadrian]

7 hours ago, PDKTDK said:

@sadrian thanks so much for your generosity.  With the L6 + midi, are you able to put effects behind the amp? Delay for instance?

 

I guess what I am asking is with the midi control and L6 are you getting the same virtual options the HD w' L6 gives you?

 

Short: Yes, Helix + DT can put effects in front or after the preamp.

 

With the 4-cable-method you place a FX-Loop-Block in your Helix-preset. Everything behind that block will go after the pre- and directly to the power-amp.

With the L6-Link cable, you circumvent the DTs built-in preamp and you place a preamp-block in your Helix preset. Everything behind that block will go after the pre- and directly to the power-amp.

 

As far as I can tell, the POD-HD + DT combination does exactly the same with one difference: it turns the knobs on the DT into a midi-controller for the Pod. When you connect a POD-HD to a DT, the DTs preamp will be replaced by the POD-HD-preamp. Because all standard preamps int the POD match one in the DT, Line6 can send midi-commands to the DT to recall the corresponding power-amp config. With the Helix you do exactly the same but you have to set the midi-commands yourself per preset, they are not stored in the Helix by default.

 

I read at some points, that Line6 did some kind of special-sauce-voodoo with their dream-rig, but I don't believe that at all. It doesn't make sense. The only real difference is the midi-return from the DT's control knobs to the POD over the digital L6-Link. And midi over a digital connection is no big deal in my opinion.

[PDKTDK]

16 hours ago, sadrian said:

 

Short: Yes, Helix + DT can put effects in front or after the preamp.

 

With the 4-cable-method you place a FX-Loop-Block in your Helix-preset. Everything behind that block will go after the pre- and directly to the power-amp.

With the L6-Link cable, you circumvent the DTs built-in preamp and you place a preamp-block in your Helix preset. Everything behind that block will go after the pre- and directly to the power-amp.

 

As far as I can tell, the POD-HD + DT combination does exactly the same with one difference: it turns the knobs on the DT into a midi-controller for the Pod. When you connect a POD-HD to a DT, the DTs preamp will be replaced by the POD-HD-preamp. Because all standard preamps int the POD match one in the DT, Line6 can send midi-commands to the DT to recall the corresponding power-amp config. With the Helix you do exactly the same but you have to set the midi-commands yourself per preset, they are not stored in the Helix by default.

 

I read at some points, that Line6 did some kind of special-sauce-voodoo with their dream-rig, but I don't believe that at all. It doesn't make sense. The only real difference is the midi-return from the DT's control knobs to the POD over the digital L6-Link. And midi over a digital connection is no big deal in my opinion.

Dude!  Thank you.  I'm sold and thanks for clarifying.  It seems with a little know how you can surpass the HD with exception of the amp/HD control integration.  So if you prefer the DT's pre-amps over the Helix and HD....Why do you love the Helix?  Just for the limitless other options over the HD's somewhat limited options?

 

My main questions are answered.  I just want to know why you like it so much.  I'm already sold. Thank you so much!

 

OH wait!: Do you have to change any of the amp settings manually from the amp?: Class, Pentode/Triode, I-II-III-IV

[sadrian]

@PDKTDK

 

The Helix is way more than a preamp, it is even more than a multi-effects pedalboard. It is a all-in-one control center and for me a highly creative tool. I stick with the DTs, because I like the concept, they sound good and I like that I can use them as very versatile plain tube amps without any fancy other stuff. For me, Helix+DT are the perfect combination.

 

And, the preamps in the Helix sound very very good to me! And there are a lot more preamps than in the DT alone. It's just this little feeling. Maybe it comes from the signal processing, a teeny tiny lag that you'd never hear but somehow you feel it while playing. I don't know, maybe it's just me.

 

Quote

OH wait!: Do you have to change any of the amp settings manually from the amp?: Class, Pentode/Triode, I-II-III-IV

 

No, you don't. Every aspect of the DT can be controlled via midi, thus by the Helix. One exception: Master Volume.

 

I found out something very interesting about the DT-Helix combination yesterday. I'll try to make a write up, maybe a video if I find the time. I think on the weekend.

[PDKTDK]

14 hours ago, sadrian said:

@PDKTDK

 

The Helix is way more than a preamp, it is even more than a multi-effects pedalboard. It is a all-in-one control center and for me a highly creative tool. I stick with the DTs, because I like the concept, they sound good and I like that I can use them as very versatile plain tube amps without any fancy other stuff. For me, Helix+DT are the perfect combination.

 

And, the preamps in the Helix sound very very good to me! And there are a lot more preamps than in the DT alone. It's just this little feeling. Maybe it comes from the signal processing, a teeny tiny lag that you'd never hear but somehow you feel it while playing. I don't know, maybe it's just me.

 

 

No, you don't. Every aspect of the DT can be controlled via midi, thus by the Helix. One exception: Master Volume.

 

I found out something very interesting about the DT-Helix combination yesterday. I'll try to make a write up, maybe a video if I find the time. I think on the weekend.

Based on your description this is exactly why I love the DT and what I like about the HD and (now confirmed) Helix with DT combo.

 

I'm sold and very appreciative to your feedback.  Thank you!

[justjoelkennedy]

Thought this might be the best thread to ask about a problem I’m having with the L6 link of my new Helix with my DT25. Every time I power the Helix off and then turn it back on, I need to unplug the L6 link cable from the Helix and then plug it back in to hear the guitar. Is there away around this? 

[PDKTDK]

On 6/2/2019 at 2:00 AM, jpkennedy said:

Thought this might be the best thread to ask about a problem I’m having with the L6 link of my new Helix with my DT25. Every time I power the Helix off and then turn it back on, I need to unplug the L6 link cable from the Helix and then plug it back in to hear the guitar. Is there away around this? 

I had that problem a few times and toggled the channel switch and it was resolved.

[justjoelkennedy]

1 minute ago, PDKTDK said:

I had that problem a few times and toggled the channel switch and it was resolved.

Glad to hear it got better! Do you mean you just messed with the cable coming out of the back of the DT and/or Helix or did you do something within the Helix interface?

[PDKTDK]

2 minutes ago, jpkennedy said:

Glad to hear it got better! Do you mean you just messed with the cable coming out of the back of the DT and/or Helix or did you do something within the Helix interface?

On the front of the amp I toggled to channel B then back to channel A and I heard sound.

[justjoelkennedy]

Just now, PDKTDK said:

On the front of the amp I toggled to channel B then back to channel A and I heard sound.

Ah! That's easier than unplugging and plugging back in, at least!

[PDKTDK]

13 minutes ago, jpkennedy said:

Ah! That's easier than unplugging and plugging back in, at least!

I also don't hook the Helix up to computer FIRST at home until after I have it plugged into the amp and both are on.  the first 2 times I used it I had the Helix opened in the editing program and there was no sound when I then connected it to the DT.

I've only had the Helix for a few weeks..... AND I LOVE IT!

 

Now I'm stalking this place looking forward to 2.80 update and ditching my midi cables.

[PDKTDK]

It’s almost here!

 

I’ve been a DT and DT HD user since 2010. Upgraded to the Helix 2 months ago-ish. 

 

If you’ve been on the fence like me...come off and step into the light. It is so much easier to get good sounds with the Helix than the HD and with L6 finally in play...

 

I have seen the promised land!

[gtrman100]

It's here and it's awesome! From the Helix cab pages, you can select the amp and all the parameters that were available on the Pod HD. I've edited my presets, and it's easy to do. 

[ezut]

It doesn't work for me.Why?

[sadrian]

2 hours ago, ezut said:

It doesn't work for me.Why?

 

You find the DT poweramp settings in the output-section if the DT. Go to the output and go to page three (to the right).

 

these options only work if the DT is connected with an XLR cable via the L6-Link port.

 

Does that help?

[ezut]

I'm over these. Sound is just not become a reinforcement type.

[bobcoss]

Ezut, I don't understand your last statement. Are you saying you are giving up because it's irrelevant now because of all the other options we have available?

 

I'm still trying to figure out how I am going to use this myself.  I have control, and the sounds are good, but it seems a little complicated to me all the options.   I need a good how-to guide.

[ezut]

You misunderstood me.

The sound goes through.

The control does not pass.

[bobcoss]

Ah.  you are right.  I see it now rereading the thread in context.

 

I can think of two possibilities that it isn't working for you.  1; The DT Amp doesn't have firmware 2.0, or 2;  the XLR cable you are using to connect the Helix to the DT isn't compatible.  The Specs for the line6 link are for a XLR 110-Ohm AES/EBU cable.  Some folks have gotten regular 50 ohm cables to work, but others not. 

 

Hope you get it working.

 

Bob

[ezut]

I tried to update the DT firmware with a USB-MIDI cable but failed. I don't understand why. I did everything according to the description.

[PDKTDK]

 Many people had problems updating their DT 50/25s using a generic midi to USB adapter.  I used the M audio one and it worked perfectly for both my amps. 

[ezut]

I understand. But I don't have M audio. What to do?

[PDKTDK]

 I bought mine at a guitar center. Most music shops should have the M audio branded midi USB interface. 

 

Or order one off Amazon or eBay.

 

https://www.guitarcenter.com/M-Audio/USB-Uno-1X1-MIDI-Interface-1274115051974.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWMWXGP&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvdXpBRCoARIsAMJSKqJ3MGPaHBuJP4AWYdxMHGMYAVUZ3kjrguHtZjZqYYmF4L6I8gEc_uYaAhF-EALw_wcB