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litesnsirens

I’ve figured out the random volume loss on presets

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It appears that there is an issue with the LA Comp.

 

You likely won’t notice it if you use it before the amp block as it doesn’t do much to the over all volume in that position.  However if you put it after the amp block it will affect the volume of the patch and as a result depending on how it’s feeling when you load the preset you may get full volume and you might get less than full volume (as I said it’s random).

 

I started using the compressor at the end of the chain after watching and following along building a patch from a Jason Sadites youtube video.  And it 2.71 it worked great.  In 2.8 LA comp seems to have an issue loading.  If I take it out of the signal path the preset will consistently load at the same volume if I put it back in and keep re-loading the patch after less than 10 re-loads (most often less than 5) the patch will load at a lower or higher volume.  I also tested with leaving it in the signal path and just disabling it which has the same effect (as expected).

 

When Line 6 answers my support ticket, I’ll just point them to this thread as I know there are others who have put in a support ticket for this issue.

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Well done on spotting this - I have been having the same issue since upgrading to 2.8

 

i have a support ticket open and have forwarded your info

 

hopefully they will sort a bug fix ASAP 

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after less than 10 re-loads (most often less than 5) the patch will load at a lower or higher volume. 

 

Interesting- Please let us know more when you hear back from them.

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For now I'm just going to disable or take the La studio comp out of the mix so I can stay on 2.8.  once the issue is resolved I can add them back in.

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I use LA compressor in a couple of patches in the 'final' block in my stomp, and noticed something a bit odd with volumes at last night's gig, but wasn't sure - due to the usual onstage chaos and poor monitoring - what the issue was. It would be nice to know this could have been the problem., so - yes - an update here would be appreciate to see if it's reproducible. Seems like an odd bug to have introduced, if indeed it is one, though.

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Great troubleshooting... I'll be watching this thread for updates as this is how I use the LA Comp, on all of my presets. 

Hopefully a hot fix will correct this, or I'll be waiting for 2.9 before I can update.

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4 hours ago, codamedia said:

Great troubleshooting... I'll be watching this thread for updates as this is how I use the LA Comp, on all of my presets. 

Hopefully a hot fix will correct this, or I'll be waiting for 2.9 before I can update.

 

+1 props to @litesnsirens for catching this. I use the LA comp at the end of many patches, so this fully and finally confirms my intention to give 2.8 a miss for the time being. Really, I don't need the grief.

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I also noticed an issue with Red Squeeze being too loud in all my patches.  I had to adjust the level in all patches that use that compressor. I wonder if something has happened with the core Helix compressor algorithm.

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9 hours ago, BBD_123 said:

 

+1 props to @litesnsirens for catching this. I use the LA comp at the end of many patches, so this fully and finally confirms my intention to give 2.8 a miss for the time being. Really, I don't need the grief.

This is not specific to 2.8. I had the same issue with 2.71. I follow Jason Sadites YouTube channel and have used his techniques from the beginning in creating my patches. I noticed the volume drops and jumps when switching between presets in Preset Mode so I posted about it on TGP and in the Facebook group about a month ago. One of the first questions I got was whether or not I used the LA Comp at the end of my chain, and of course I did in every patch. Once I removed it I no longer had the issue.

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6 hours ago, bkylerogers said:

This is not specific to 2.8. I had the same issue with 2.71. I follow Jason Sadites YouTube channel and have used his techniques from the beginning in creating my patches. I noticed the volume drops and jumps when switching between presets in Preset Mode so I posted about it on TGP and in the Facebook group about a month ago. One of the first questions I got was whether or not I used the LA Comp at the end of my chain, and of course I did in every patch. Once I removed it I no longer had the issue.

 

Interesting.... 

 

Every one of my patches includes the LA Comp near the end of the chain and I have NEVER experienced that using 2.71... or any firmware before it.

That would lead me to believe it might not be the LA Comp on it's own, but a more specific interaction between the LA Comp and something else in the chain.

 

note: I have not updated to 2.8 so I can't verify this problem even exists on my LT yet. 

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16 hours ago, BBD_123 said:

 

+1 props to @litesnsirens for catching this. I use the LA comp at the end of many patches, so this fully and finally confirms my intention to give 2.8 a miss for the time being. Really, I don't need the grief.

That’s where I’m at. All the shenanigans and goings-on have me waiting things out. Perhaps a 2.8.1 will be forthcoming?

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Perhaps a 2.8.1 will be forthcoming?

I read earlier and someone said here (sorry don't remember who that was atm) in a few weeks ballpark.

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2 hours ago, Verne-Bunsen said:

That’s where I’m at. All the shenanigans and goings-on have me waiting things out. Perhaps a 2.8.1 will be forthcoming?

 

You ever see "The Money Pit"?

 

"Two weeks..."  ;)

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4 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

Interesting.... 

 

Every one of my patches includes the LA Comp near the end of the chain and I have NEVER experienced that using 2.71... or any firmware before it.

That would lead me to believe it might not be the LA Comp on it's own, but a more specific interaction between the LA Comp and something else in the chain.

 

note: I have not updated to 2.8 so I can't verify this problem even exists on my LT yet. 

 

The 3 presets I was switching between were pretty basic, just amp/cab/LA Comp. One preset had the parametric EQ for hi/lo cuts, and one had a delay. That's it. No external effects.

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No it's definitely 2.8 related and it's definitely the LA studio comp.  If I roll back to 2.71 no issue... Back to 2.8 the issue is there again.. 

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7 minutes ago, litesnsirens said:

No it's definitely 2.8 related and it's definitely the LA studio comp.  If I roll back to 2.71 no issue... Back to 2.8 the issue is there again.. 

 

May be for you, but I assure you I had the same problem with 2.71. My post is still visible in the FB group when I posted it about it on June 21st, well before the update.

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16 hours ago, bkylerogers said:

This is not specific to 2.8. I had the same issue with 2.71.

 

 

On 2.70 and staying there for the time being :-)

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5 hours ago, bkylerogers said:

 

May be for you, but I assure you I had the same problem with 2.71. My post is still visible in the FB group when I posted it about it on June 21st, well before the update.

 

I have no doubt that you were having issues... I'm not challenging that at all.  I'm saying that I've tested this and that although you were having issues with the same comp, it might not necessarily be the same issue that some of us are experiencing with the comp and 2.8.  There is something going on in 2.8 that's definitely doesn't like this compressor.

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1 minute ago, litesnsirens said:

 

 

I have no doubt that you were having issues... I'm not challenging that at all.  I'm saying that I've tested this and that although you were having issues with the same comp, it might not necessarily be the same issue that some of us are experiencing with the comp and 2.8.  There is something going on in 2.8 that's definitely doesn't like this compressor.

 

Using the Stomp in Preset Mode, if I switched presets the volume started way low and "bloomed" (hate that word) but never came back to the set volume unless I flipped back and forth between presets multiple times. It was completely random. Sometimes I would cycle through the presets and they would all be at the same volume, other times I'd switch to the next preset and it would be at a lower volume, so I would flip back to the previous preset, then back to the other preset and the volume would be correct. Is that not the issue you're describing?

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9 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

You ever see "The Money Pit"?

 

"Two weeks..."  ;)

You ever see: "Total Recall"?

 

... the same line: "Two weeks..." ;)

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3 minutes ago, litesnsirens said:

It's the same symptoms.  

 

I honestly only used the comp because I started following Sadites when I first got my Stomp and just got used to building patches his way. Since this issue surfaced I just took it out and it hasn't been a problem. Not saying it doesn't need to be fixed though.

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This pains me, as the LA-2 near the end of chain has been the "special sauce" for nearly as long as I've had the Helix.   I probably can't experiment with it until after Sunday, but if that's a bona fide issue, great catch.  

 

Texasdave

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7 hours ago, bkylerogers said:

 

I honestly only used the comp because I started following Sadites when I first got my Stomp and just got used to building patches his way. Since this issue surfaced I just took it out and it hasn't been a problem. Not saying it doesn't need to be fixed though.

Hmmm, I didn't notice you were using the stomp.  It's a newer product and may have been closer to the the new core based code that they moved the helix floor to.  Which means the issue may have been in the 2.71 firmware of the stomp but not in the 2.71 version of the helix floor.  Once the floor got moved to come in line with the stomp, the issue was became evident in the floor as well.  Just conjecture, as I don't really understand what changes have gone on under the hood, but my understanding is that it's something along those lines.

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14 hours ago, bkylerogers said:

 

Using the Stomp in Preset Mode, if I switched presets the volume started way low and "bloomed" (hate that word) but never came back to the set volume unless I flipped back and forth between presets multiple times. It was completely random. Sometimes I would cycle through the presets and they would all be at the same volume, other times I'd switch to the next preset and it would be at a lower volume, so I would flip back to the previous preset, then back to the other preset and the volume would be correct. Is that not the issue you're describing?

 

Referring to your statement re volume movement;  is the ‘volume slider’ visibly moving back and forth inside the LA Comp settings?  Just curious.  

 

I’ve been using Jason’s method for a long time as well and this hasn’t occurred in my Helix yet but I've only been on 2.8 a few days, I’ll keep a listen out for it.  You’d think if this is systemic in 2.8, Jason would definitely be infected with this “bug” - so far no mention in any of his 2.8 videos that I’ve watched.

 

Thx, keep up the good work and keep us posted!

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14 hours ago, bkylerogers said:

Using the Stomp in Preset Mode,

 

Aha moment... It all begins to make sense now! I didn't realize you were using a STOMP.

 

The STOMP and EFFECTS were built on the new core and they just updated the Floor/Rack/LT to use that core with this update. We now have your bugs! 

Come to think of it... when I had the HX Effects, Path B would sometimes go silent - which is another BUG some users are reporting on the Floor/Rack/LT with this update. 

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For what its worth and to keep this thread active on the topic, I'm on 2.81 but the issue with the LA studio comp is still there. 

Really annoys me and I'm at the point of modifying my presets to avoid the issue (i.e. get rid of the compressor). I'm playing live with my LT so I want it to be consistent in volume/performance.

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21 minutes ago, Hillman1312 said:

For what its worth and to keep this thread active on the topic, I'm on 2.81 but the issue with the LA studio comp is still there. 

 

So Line-6 knows its a bug and just didn't get to it yet, or they did not know about it?

 

Yes, they are busy but a 5 second "we'll get er done" goes a long way here. I'd check TGP on this but obviously, my IP is banned there. 

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Posted (edited)

Couldn't help to do some experimenting and created a very simple patch:

 

Amp + Cab (Divided duo) followed by the LA studio comp with the peak reduction and gain both at 5. Standard settings on the amp+cab.

From my DAW I sent a simple loop into the Helix (input USB 7/8) and then re-loaded the preset every few seconds. Indeed random drop outs as already known.

 

Next I decided to add a gain block AFTER the compressor with the gain at 0 (i.e. it basically doesn't do anything).

Then did the same thing and it seems that the issue is now gone.

 

Now, before going "yeah, we may have a solution/ workaround"  can someone please do a similar experiment and report back. 

Perhaps I was just lucky ......

 

 

Update: Just confirmed the above for two of my original presets....... 

Edited by Hillman1312
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I seem to be having this problem too, and I have 2.82 fw installed.

 

I was working on an 8-snapshot patch that contained the LA Studio Comp and the Red Squeeze too. All of a sudden, while editing, almost all the settings of almost every block turned to some previous state (Default values mostly). I had a clean snapshot, crunch, distorsion, lead and more, and I ended up with 8 almost identical snapshots. The outputs were set up all different, and they all ended up at +0.9 dB, that sounds like a very random value, or maybe it was the value one of the snapshots had, not sure about it.

 

I started all over again and after some time it happened again, 4 times in total. I was editing with HX Edit on my Mac.

 

I can't say for sure what was that triggered the reset. I did everything back again directly on the Helix LT, and I think that the issue did not show up, but I am still not completely sure, sometimes I had the impression that I had to move some knobs more than once. I haven't booted the Helix again after all was set, so I can't say if the problem persists.

 

All of my presets have the LA comp at the end of the chain, like others commented, so all of my patches might have had the same problem and I still haven't realized it. I'll have to check. What's for sure is that the LA comp was on the patch I was working on today.

 

I am a new Helix user, and this is my first modeler (I have always been a tube amps+stompboxes kind of guy). I have to confess that the temptation to sell it and go back to analog is strong at the moment. So much work is involved in building patches, and of course you rely heavily on them. If such a problem happens right before a gig, what can you do? 

 

 

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I don't think it's the same issue.  The issue I was addressing had nothing to do with values re-setting in snapshots.  I don't use snapshots that often but i'm sure there's someone who can figure out what's going on.  Sounds like a global setting.  The issue I was addressing was in relation to switching between presets.  You would never know if the preset would be the expected volume or really quiet.  That has been fixed.

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