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Poly Capo/Shift has too many artifacts an sounds bad

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6 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

Intonation, gents... intonation. You can tune up with the best strobe tuner in the known universe all day long, and if the guitar's intonation is not spot on, it will wreak havoc with pitch shifting effects.

 

And, as said, add tempered tuning (causing all kinds of weird "unnatural" interferences) to the scenario and it doesn't get any better.
Whatever, all this is why proper polyphonic pitch shifting likely needs to go for a kind of "brute force" method. "Just transpose everything, will you?"
As I'm no programmer, I have no clue about the secrets behind this. Seems to be a pretty wellkept secret in the audio world, too, as there's companies who just seem to do it well, whereas others don't. Serato and zplane are prime examples for excellent algorithms, whereas, say, Logic (which isn't even exactly offering anything realtime) is doing notoriously bad (I even used to switch to Cubase just to perform some time stretching or transposing back in the days).

As said, personally I really wish L6 would add another algorithm, allowing for way better tracking and accurate pitching while sacrificing tonal "integrity". As said, I know that most people are interested in an easy way to achieve drop tunings, but I'd rather like something to experiment with (again as said, think HOG/POG). For any such purposes. tonal quality is less relevant but things have to be accurate instead.

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5 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

And, as said, add tempered tuning (causing all kinds of weird "unnatural" interferences) to the scenario and it doesn't get any better.
Whatever, all this is why proper polyphonic pitch shifting likely needs to go for a kind of "brute force" method. "Just transpose everything, will you?"
As I'm no programmer, I have no clue about the secrets behind this. Seems to be a pretty wellkept secret in the audio world, too, as there's companies who just seem to do it well, whereas others don't. Serato and zplane are prime examples for excellent algorithms, whereas, say, Logic (which isn't even exactly offering anything realtime) is doing notoriously bad (I even used to switch to Cubase just to perform some time stretching or transposing back in the days).

As said, personally I really wish L6 would add another algorithm, allowing for way better tracking and accurate pitching while sacrificing tonal "integrity". As said, I know that most people are interested in an easy way to achieve drop tunings, but I'd rather like something to experiment with (again as said, think HOG/POG). For any such purposes. tonal quality is less relevant but things have to be accurate instead.


I think the poly stuff tracks pretty darn great, and as good or better than anything available on the market. I checked out your F major 7 mp3 example and it sounded fine. You could detect the slightest bit of warble in the background, but certainly not noticeable to untrained ears, and certainly not going to come through in a mix. If you're doing serious recording you'll voice the chord somewhere else or have a retuned guitar, to be frank. I think your claim that the poly pitch is "downright unusable" is spurious at best, I haven't seen one mention of settings or stable vs fast tracking. It does what it's meant to. And probably unpopular opinion, but if you have sloppy right or left hand technique, you're not going to have a good time with the poly stuff, plain and simple.

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23 minutes ago, Chaz176 said:

I think the poly stuff tracks pretty darn great, and as good or better than anything available on the market. I checked out your F major 7 mp3 example and it sounded fine.

 

As said, each to their own. If you don't need better sound quality, that's fine - but I do. As easy as that.

And you can downvote my postings all you want, not only is that absurd, but it won't stop me from mentioning shortcomings, either.

 

23 minutes ago, Chaz176 said:

And probably unpopular opinion, but if you have sloppy right or left hand technique, you're not going to have a good time with the poly stuff, plain and simple.

 

That's just laughable. You seem to have no idea about how polyphonic pitch shifting works. Try out Serato's products and you will see it's got *zero* to do with the way you pick or anything. It just transposes.

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70733-hideout/

 

Just curious, what  was so funny about my response?   Can we just all chill out.  Line 6 Helix is a piece of gear that runs software, it has bugs, it has great sounds that I personally have used on countless recording sessions...it has many workarounds for the flaws it inevitably has.  What's up with this "Helix is the single greatest untouchable piece of gear".  No gear is ever perfect, and without flaws.  We can make it approach perfection, the more we keep suggesting new features, and the more we keep testing it with your own unique setups.  I don't get this snarky stuck-up holier than thou attitude in here.  Chill out, everybody, ok?  Seriously!  I've made a handful of posts and am already getting bad vibes with some responses on here. 

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If you're expecting to anything besides get through a song or two in your covers set without changing guitars its probably not gonna be up to par. I've tried the Kemper, AFX, Drop, etc and the pitch stuff is just as bad, just in different ways. To me the Kemper sounds like a picture of a guitar moved up or down, the Helix stuff sounds like the Drop but better with the EQ adjustment. IMO. None of them would ever make it on a recording as anything other than a special effect.

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Having a poly whammy is fantastic but two of the most exciting things about poly for me are quick access to alternate(capo) tunings to cut down on having to switch guitars and the potential it has for delivering synth effects that can track decently without a hex pickup. To me part of the big picture when it comes to poly is the capability to finally merge a top-notch modeler and its attendant effects with a guitar synth. Perhaps we can stop thinking of guitar synthesis and amp and effect modeling as separate worlds and devices in the future.

 

For those of us that have been using guitar synths for decades you usually have to make a choice(or run through two devices) -  a quality guitar synth with subpar effects and guitar sound, or, a quality modeler with great guitar sound, effects, and amp modeling with perhaps some small measure of difficult to use, poorly performing/tracking synthesis with limited capability thrown in as an afterthought.  I am hoping we move to modelers that combine the best of both worlds. For that to happen we may need to wait for a next generation device with the processing power to pull it off. Maybe the programmers at Line6 will surprise us though and figure out how to deliver on the current platform. Again, I can't help but think, wouldn't a modular approach be great where we could simply drop in an integrated synthesis module internally to our modeler.

 

Btw, I would love to see poly able to downtune strings individually such that I can for example drop only the low E to a D for a Drop D tuning. I use my Variax for this currently but it would be great to have the capability with my "normal" guitars.

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26 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

If you're expecting to anything besides get through a song or two in your covers set without changing guitars its probably not gonna be up to par. I've tried the Kemper, AFX, Drop, etc and the pitch stuff is just as bad, just in different ways. To me the Kemper sounds like a picture of a guitar moved up or down, the Helix stuff sounds like the Drop but better with the EQ adjustment. IMO. None of them would ever make it on a recording as anything other than a special effect.

 

I guess it all comes down to expectations and usage.  I just put together a preset for a Christmas show I'm doing that has the song "Welcome To Our World".  It's finger picked on acoustic guitar and transitions from the key of E to the key of F on the last verse/chorus.  I used the Poly Capo so I could continue to use the open strings when it transitioned and set the Auto EQ to 0 and the Tracking to Stable rather than x-Stable.  That and keeping the guitar tuning accurate within reason seemed to get rid of most if not all the artifacts.

 

So I suspect if you're using the Poly pitch effects you might not want to opt for too much complexity in the preset as a key ingredient.

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Just some things:

 

- People seem to assume the main use for PolyPitch would be to completely tune guitarsb down or up. Might be true for most folks, but personally, I never do anything like that. I'm getting through my life as a working guitarist pretty much entirely with standard tuning since around 30 years. I once had to tune to Eb inmidst of a tour because the singers voice was completely shot. And I do occasionally tune to drop D, but that's rare already. Apart from that, I used a Baritone for quite a while (but never expected any pitch shifter to replace it at all). Otherwise it's standard tuning all throughout.

My use for anything poly pitch would hence be something completely different. Think along the lines of EHX' HOGs and POGs. But unlike the Helix' PolyPitch, these don't require to adjust my playing, they're allowing me to play any chords I like. And no, as said before, they don't exactly work as guitar transposing units - but they're not supposed to, either. They're more like experimental, synth-ish devices.

So, just because someone thinks the HX PolyPitch is fine for the occasional live gig (which I won't even argue about), this isn't the only thing pitch shifting units are made for. In fact, they even excel in other areas. I mean, nobody would ever say a HOG or POG is "only good for live" - which is what people seem to think of the HX PolyPitch.
 

- When it comes to amp modeling, people are constantly raving about minute details. Add to this the endless search for the perfect IR and what not. It's all about even the smallest sonic details. "Dude, you owe it to yourself to check out the XYZ IRs, they're a true game changer!!!" "Man, this amp sounds realer than real and feels like the real deal, I promise!"

But then, when it comes to an effect changing your entire guitar tone and response full stop, all of a sudden it's "Well, it really only needs to be so-so-ish, you would never use that in a serious situation anyway!"

And fwiw, why would I spend quite some money on an audio interface allowing me to work with roundtrip latencies around 5ms all throughout, just to have the entire snappiness of that experience completely destroyed by the 13ms of latency the HX PolyPitch is adding (and yes, I measured it)? Yeah, I know, there's the faster settings - but I rather not comment on their pitch shifting qualities...

 

As said, if all this suits anyone well, fine with me. But please stop telling me I have to like it as well. I'm simply expecting something more from a pitch shifting "suite" that was pretty much advertised months in advance.

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12 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

Btw, I would love to see poly able to downtune strings individually such that I can for example drop only the low E to a D for a Drop D tuning. I use my Variax for this currently but it would be great to have the capability with my "normal" guitars.

 

I wouldn't expect this to happen in any of our lifetimes. Even Melodyne DNA couldn't do it, because even if it splits polyphonic signals into single pitch events, there's no way it could reliably tell on which string things were played. Besides, it's far from being a realtime process.

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7 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

I wouldn't expect this to happen in any of our lifetimes. Even Melodyne DNA couldn't do it, because even if it splits polyphonic signals into single pitch events, there's no way it could reliably tell on which string things were played. Besides, it's far from being a realtime process.

 

Without being able to reliably predict how long I will be on this blue marble I can't argue that. I can see someone eventually coming up with an algorithm that was able to reliably able to use the timbre of for example a low E string to only pitch shift that string.  A low E still has a unique sonic signature that is not the same as a D string played up two frets.

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6 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

I can see someone eventually coming up with an algorithm that was able to reliably able to use the timbre of for example a low E string to only pitch shift that string.  A low E still has a unique sonic signature that is not the same as a D string played up two frets.

 

Sure, but as said, even the most advanced algorithm up to date (namely Melodyne DNA) isn't even able to analyse things properly, let alone individual pitch shifts on the extracted notes sometimes really don't sound all *that* great (as there's always some kinda "bleed").

And then, while I agree that there's a noticeable difference in timbre between notes played on different strings, it's not really as clear in terms of analysis, especially given that things will drastically change with pickup selections, playing style, using tone controls and what not. As a stupid example: A note picked with your finger on the A string might sound close to the same note picked with a pick on the E string. Yeah, stupid example, but you get the idea - there's just too many variables to reliably detect an "E6 timbre" all throughout. And in case you wanted to detune individual strings, it needed to be super reliable.

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On 12/3/2020 at 5:01 AM, karlic said:

Over time you get used to playing with a slight latency and listening back to live show clips, it is perfectly acceptable in a mix.

 

 

i agree!. 

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1 hour ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

Sure, but as said, even the most advanced algorithm up to date (namely Melodyne DNA) isn't even able to analyse things properly, let alone individual pitch shifts on the extracted notes sometimes really don't sound all *that* great (as there's always some kinda "bleed").

And then, while I agree that there's a noticeable difference in timbre between notes played on different strings, it's not really as clear in terms of analysis, especially given that things will drastically change with pickup selections, playing style, using tone controls and what not. As a stupid example: A note picked with your finger on the A string might sound close to the same note picked with a pick on the E string. Yeah, stupid example, but you get the idea - there's just too many variables to reliably detect an "E6 timbre" all throughout. And in case you wanted to detune individual strings, it needed to be super reliable.

 

I could envision something like this having an initial "recognition" initialization routine where it gets a baseline for a specific guitar, pickups, cable, and set of strings. Anyway, like most things that are technically challenging now I am sure they will get around to it sooner or later. Just how much later I don't know. Who knows what is currently being worked on behind the silicon curtain?  :-)

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18 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

Anyway, like most things that are technically challenging now I am sure they will get around to it sooner or later. Just how much later I don't know. Who knows what is currently being worked on behind the silicon curtain?  :-)

 

What I could imagine would be a little non-intrusive piece of hardware, some kinda string sensor, that you could mount on pretty much any guitar without spoiling the look. But then, quite obviously, the information gathered by such a unit would have to be transmitted somehow.

But otherwise, as said, I doubt I'll live long enough to experience any such things myself.

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If you really struggle with latency and tracking of transpose effects and still don't want to carry another guitar, there are still a couple of options.

 

I got this wonderfully simple bit of inexpensive kit before I started using Evertune. The Pitch-Key for dropping the lowest string that fits any non-termolo guitar: https://www.pitch-key.com/

 

For more complicated tuning there is the Gibson G Force Tuner. I have never tried it though: 

 

 

 

Drop

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1 minute ago, karlic said:

If you really struggle with latency and tracking of transpose effects and still don't want to carry another guitar, there are still a couple of options.

 

None of these would do what I'd like to see. And fwiw, carrying another guitar wouldn't, either.

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And fwiw, just in case someone hasn't seen it already, this is pretty much along the lines of what I'd like to see from a device doing polyphonic pitching:

 

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Unless there are a lot more people asking for the same as you, maybe it is best to go with the Electro-Harmonix then. With modeller feature requests, it will mostly be the majority vote for updates. It is almost impossible to cater for individuals with such specific requirements.

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That Hog isnt doing what the Helix Poly Pitch is doing. Still apples and oranges....

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53 minutes ago, PierM said:

That Hog isnt doing what the Helix Poly Pitch is doing. Still apples and oranges....

 

Ahem - I *know* that. So what?

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1 hour ago, karlic said:

Unless there are a lot more people asking for the same as you, maybe it is best to go with the Electro-Harmonix then. With modeller feature requests, it will mostly be the majority vote for updates. It is almost impossible to cater for individuals with such specific requirements.

 

There's quite some people who'd like to see some kind of guitar synthesis built into the Helix.

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1 hour ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

There's quite some people who'd like to see some kind of guitar synthesis built into the Helix.

Would that be more or less processor intensive than the poly effects? It's a shame 3.0 didn't really match your hopes, but I guess 3.1 is in the making.

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10 minutes ago, karlic said:

Would that be more or less processor intensive than the poly effects?

 

I have absolutely no idea. But given that the HOG 2 is from 2012/13 and doing quite some other things along with pitch shifting, I would say the Helix should work sufficiently well. And uhm, even the Kemper does an impressive job at pitch shifting, being from 2011 and running its profiling engine at the same time.

Personally, in case there were no tracking issues and the pitch shifting would cause less artefacts, I absolutely wouldn't mind sacrificing an entire path of the Helix for some HOG-alike goodness.

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40 minutes ago, karlic said:

Would that be more or less processor intensive than the poly effects? It's a shame 3.0 didn't really match your hopes, but I guess 3.1 is in the making.

 

At tracking parity (as is now), then should be probably more DSP intensive, since you need to add another set of cycles to add "synthesis". At some point, I believe would be better to use an hexaphonic pickup driving a sound module, if you need real synth patches. Helix isn't a sound module, so all it can do is very basic OSC synthesis, which is really fun, but hard to use in a real context. 

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4 minutes ago, PierM said:

At tracking parity (as is now), then should be probably more DSP intensive, since you need to add another set of cycles to add "synthesis".

 

Well, decent pitch shifting and decent filters can take you a *long* way already. Add some envelopes and LFOs and you'll get really far. Just listen to the HOG stuff, it's basically all it does.

But obviously all that kinda stuff is extremely low on L6's radar.

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17 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

But obviously all that kinda stuff is extremely low on L6's radar.

 

In fairness, we don't know that one way or the other. 

Envelopes, LFO's, added synth capabilities, etc.... those are fairly active suggestions on IdeaScale.

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1 hour ago, codamedia said:

Envelopes, LFO's, added synth capabilities, etc.... those are fairly active suggestions on IdeaScale.

 

Yeah well. Since around, hm, 3-5 years?

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9 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Yeah well. Since around, hm, 3-5 years?

 

Just like many others things that eventually got added.... 

I stand by what I said.... '"we don't know one way or the other"...

 

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On 12/4/2020 at 6:53 PM, SaschaFranck said:

 

I wouldn't expect this to happen in any of our lifetimes. Even Melodyne DNA couldn't do it, because even if it splits polyphonic signals into single pitch events, there's no way it could reliably tell on which string things were played. Besides, it's far from being a realtime process.

 

You can't just make blanket statements like that to suit your argument. Melodyne DNA is inconsistent, but more than once it has saved me when mixing.

 

Acoustics played with a major, where it should have been minor, were perfectly corrected. Also I have corrected electric piano with no issues. You just have to accept it won't work in all scenarios, as some instruments are more complex than others..

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5 minutes ago, karlic said:

You can't just make blanket statements like that to suit your argument. Melodyne DNA is inconsistent, but more than once it has saved me when mixing.

 

I did not make a blanket statement regarding Melodyne. Maybe you should just read it again.

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5 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

I did not make a blanket statement regarding Melodyne. Maybe you should just read it again.

 

You highlighted downtune strings individually and then stated "even Melodyne DNA couldn't do it". Looks clear to me. You just always seem to look for the negative.

 

My experience is that it can do this.

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18 minutes ago, karlic said:

You highlighted downtune strings individually and then stated "even Melodyne DNA couldn't do it".

 

On 12/4/2020 at 7:53 PM, SaschaFranck said:

Even Melodyne DNA couldn't do it, because even if it splits polyphonic signals into single pitch events, there's no way it could reliably tell on which string things were played

 

You might want to read that sentence again. Or maybe just don't and continue with selective reading.

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1 hour ago, karlic said:

You highlighted downtune strings individually and then stated "even Melodyne DNA couldn't do it".

 

 

And fwiw, that is precisely what Melody *can't* do. Individual pitches =/= Individual strings.

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5 hours ago, karlic said:

 

You highlighted downtune strings individually and then stated "even Melodyne DNA couldn't do it". Looks clear to me. You just always seem to look for the negative.

 

My experience is that it can do this.

 

No,  it can't... no algorithm can pick and choose, altering the pitch of some strings but not others. That requires processing a completely isolated signal from each string, as the Variax does with individual piezo pickups in each bridge saddle.

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16 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

No,  it can't... no algorithm can pick and choose, altering the pitch of some strings but not others. That requires processing a completely isolated signal from each string, as the Variax does with individual piezo pickups in each bridge saddle.

 

I think there's been some confusion between pitchshifting individual notes and pitchshifting individual strings - but I really thought I had mentioned that very difference in my comment(s) above.
Anyway, as said before, while some superintelligent AI might be able to do this based on a polyphonic input signal one day, I think we're pretty far away from it as there's simply way too many variables coming into play.

I mean, it's not only taking things apart based on pitch (which still isn't exactly possible in realtime) or whatever spectral content (some tools such as from iZotope or especially Steinbergs Spectrallayers are doing mindblowing things already - but again, not even remotely in realtime yet) but there's the myriads of possible input signal variations coming from all sorts of guitars, varying in string type and gauge, playing style, guitar type, pickup/mic type, tone controls and what not - quite a mess for any algorithm.

 

What I could imagine (at least on paper) would be some easier way to slap a hex pickup system into existing guitars. Right now, the options are rather limited and they all require to either buy a complete guitar (Variax, Godin, whatever), do some hardware modifications (bridge saddle replacment) or slap some ugly/bulky mess (GK-alike pickups) onto your precious axe. None of these are exactly exciting options for people loving their favourite instruments as they are. Add to this that none of these options work through a standard guitar cable and there's yet some more modifications of your setup to deal with.

I'm sure that quite some more people would try things out if it was as easy as replacing a standard pickup (which should still work as a passive pickup on its own) and running a plain guitar cable (ok, maybe a stereo TRS cable) into some box doing whatever conversion/processing while supplying phantom power for the pickup. Maybe even USB cable would be suitable for most people (with USB C the sockets became so small they could possibly be mounted next to the plain output without any woodwork on most guitars, think along the lines of the Fishman Fluence PUs which are charged by a mini USB socket mounted to a standard sized cable socket plate).

Next step could be that companies would agree on whatever kind of broader and widely accepted standard when it comes to the signals sent from those pickups. As is, GKs, TriplePlays and Variax PUs aren't compatible, so to use, say, a Variax in full glory (controlled from a Helix) along with a Boss SY-1000, you'd have to slap an additional hex pickup into a guitar already featuring a hex pickup. And you'd also have to run both a VDI cable and a 13-pin GK cable. That's just absurd. A standard such as MIDI would be pretty much welcomed here - and possibly easier to realize than ever before, given that technology has such marvellous things as USB4 on offer already, barely getting in the way of bandwidth and transmission speed any longer.

 

But then, maybe guitar players are just too conservative to ask for such things (let alone use them).

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32 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

No,  it can't... no algorithm can pick and choose, altering the pitch of some strings but not others. That requires processing a completely isolated signal from each string, as the Variax does with individual piezo pickups in each bridge saddle.

 

I am not so sure there isn't an algorithm that can pick and choose without using string signal separated e.g. hex, pickups.  Although it is not directly analogous a lot of work has been done on voice recognition of late with smart home technology and security. Differentiating one voice from another as well as picking a voice out in a crowded or noisy environment.  Separating the wheat from the chaff, filtering out the "noise".  In addition to what is happening in the guitar world there are probably a healthy number of developers trying to use timbre more effectively for processing. The barrier at this point may just be cost and latency. Getting enough low priced processing power to effectively filter out meaningful signal and getting the processing time down low enough so that it can be used in something approaching real time.  Sooner than we think it might come down to how inexpensively we can deliver this tech rather than ability to execute.

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7 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

Sooner than we think it might come down to how inexpensively we can deliver this tech rather than ability to execute.

 

I would love to agree with you, but as said before in this thread, I doubt there'll be realtime-capable solutions any day soon. I mean, look at the sonic differences between an E note played on the B-string's 5th fret and the G-string's 10th fret. They're really not *that* huge. Even the smallest variations in picking technique would result in larger differences already. Add to this that something such as Melodyne DNA isn't even able to separate a guitar and a piano playing unison voices. And that's got to be as advanced as it gets these days.

And really, I'd love (!) to be proven wrong.

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1 hour ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

I am not so sure there isn't an algorithm that can pick and choose without using string signal separated e.g. hex pickups.  Although it is not directly analogous a lot of work has been done on voice recognition of late with smart home technology and security. Differentiating one voice from another as well as picking a voice out in a crowded or noisy environment.  Separating the wheat from the chaff, filtering out the "noise".  In addition to what is happening in the guitar world there are probably a healthy number of developers trying to use timbre more effectively for processing. The barrier at this point may just be cost and latency. Getting enough low priced processing power to effectively filter out meaningful signal and getting the processing time down low enough so that it can be used in something approaching real time.  Sooner than we think it might come down to how inexpensively we can deliver this tech rather than ability to execute.

 

Well I'm the farthest thing from a computer programmer that there is...but the exact same pitches are found in multiple locations across the instrument as both open strings and fretted notes...I don't see how any algorithm is gonna be able to tease them apart reliably and in real time, and "know'' which ones it's supposed to alter and which ones it would ignore. I'll believe it when I see it in a consumer level device that Joe Average can afford... till then, a theoretical possibility is exactly that.

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53 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

No,  it can't... no algorithm can pick and choose, altering the pitch of some strings but not others. That requires processing a completely isolated signal from each string, as the Variax does with individual piezo pickups in each bridge saddle.

 

Just now, SaschaFranck said:

 

I would love to agree with you, but as said before in this thread, I doubt there'll be realtime-capable solutions any day soon. I mean, look at the sonic differences between an E note played on the B-string's 5th fret and the G-string's 10th fret. They're really not *that* huge. Even the smallest variations in picking technique would result in larger differences already. Add to this that something such as Melodyne DNA isn't even able to separate a guitar and a piano playing unison voices. And that's got to be as advanced as it gets these days.

And really, I'd love (!) to be proven wrong.

 

If it really is that far off then maybe before the solutions I describe become available we will see the standard for pickup technology and its wiring change to defaulting to providing some kind of a multi-channel hex pickup solution instead of the current "mono" pickups that are the norm. Kind of like the way we moved from mono to stereo and even multi-channel standards for recorded music. For the most part pickup technology with some specialized exceptions has not changed in decades and is a lot like owning one of those huge phones from the 60's that make the young'uns titter. We saw evolution in the networking world provide more channels for data and innovations like fiber optic for faster and more discrete transmission of data. Now these solutions are commonplace in providing internet service to millions of homes.  Maybe we are overdue for changes in pickup tech.

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6 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

before the solutions I describe become available we will see the standard for pickup technology and its wiring change to defaulting to providing some kind of a multi-channel hex pickup solution instead of the current "mono" pickups that are the norm.

 

Uhm, well. Again, I would absolutely wish it was like that, but in a guitar universe where the major sound evolutions stopped around 1975 (with some digital up-spicing in the 80s) and where people are still praising 70 year old guitar designs and technology more or less as the be-all-end-all, I think it's rather unlikely to happen.

And fwiw, when you look at the major feature requests for our beloved Helix, it's mainly amps and drives. Things to enhance whatever experimental sound sculpturing are really not requested much. Even regarding this very topic right here, you can clearly detect a similar mindset, PolyPitch apparently is much more seen as a kind of "helper" (aka "great, I only need to press this button instead of carrying another guitar around") rather than a creative tool along the lines of an EHX HOG or such.

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