rd2rk

I was working with someone just yesterday on this problem. Since I never use the Helix looper, I was baffled that a guy in a YT video could do that (stop, change presets, play) but we couldn't. You seem to have narrowed it down to the addition of the 1 switch looper. You'd be providing a service to the community if you were to contact support and see what they say about it, then report back here. Thank you.

You mean two HELIX amps to two EXTERNAL amps. The devil is in the details. Yes, for that you'll either need to do it with two delays or with the single stereo delay before the split to the amps, which might be doable with more tuning - after all, it's the way it's done ITRW with an amp without FX loop.

To send a command at preset select, use an "Instant Command" (the lightning bolt). From the Mesa manual: "....the switching is accomplished by connecting ( 'shorting' ) the jack's 'Tip' to its 'Ring' (or ground.)" From the HX Manual: "Determines the Ext Amp connection [1 (Tip-to-sleeve), 2 (Ring-to-sleeve), or both] for switching an external amp's channel, reverb, or other functions. Only works when "Global Settings > Preferences" > EXP 2/EXT AMP is set to "EXT AMP."* *IMPORTANT! Connect EXT AMP 1/2 only to amplifiers that utilize "short-to-sleeve" footswitch inputs. Connecting to any other sort of input could cause permanent damage to both your amp and the HX Effects device! If you're not sure if your amp has short-to-sleeve inputs, contact the manufacturer" Be Careful!

My guess would be that updates are accomplished using sysex commands (strings, whatever), which are longer than normal commands, and that the HX does not properly pass the entire string. This is not at all unusual. Many midi interfaces behave like this. I once had a Behringer BCR2000 that wouldn't pass sysex to a Behringer FCB1010. Over on the FCB1010/UNO users group there's a whole list of interfaces that will or won't pass sysex.

In your preset, in Command Center, just set up three Footswitches to send the required MIDI commands. EZ PZ. Here's a sample preset. It was made for somebody with a Mesa, using a VDL Control Switcher, but should be good to demo the technique. Edit: OOPS! You have HX FX!. Try this one. MKV ChannelLT-2.hlx

Sorry, could not duplicate your problem, assigned three, named three. Is the Helix FW also 2.82?

Yes. No. Maybe. What do YOU want from life? You know, there ARE Guitar Centers near Philly. They WILL order in whatever you want to try. They have a GREAT return policy. Order a 108. Try it. Maybe you'll want two. Maybe you'll want to upgrade to a 112. Or a Yamaha or QSC. They WILL NOT give you a hard time if you return the 108, and they ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT give you a hard time if you trade it in for an upgrade. You can't lose anything but gas money.

You asked for suggestions for a FIRST FRFR. My first car (1967) was a 57 Ford, NOT a 1967 Cadillac. It got me from point A to point B. I still don't need a Cadillac.

Someone on TGP tried them (108s) for use with bass and reported vibration noises at higher volume. My FRFR112 actually sounds better with my bass than with guitar, not boomy at all. With guitar, if it sounds boomy, that's what EQ is for. If boominess is ever a problem with any speaker, a HPF is the sure cure. Simple EQ cures a variety of problems. If you do decide on the 112, put it up on a short speaker stand to avoid bass coupling with the floor. That's what I do, and it works great! More expensive speakers have DSP settings to accomodate using them in a floor monitor position vs on stands. Maybe it works. Is it worth an additional $500 to avoid having to EQ yourself? I don't think so. YMMV.

The 108 and the 112 have identical 2000watt amps. How loud do you need to be? Two 108s will sound louder than one because, well, twice the speaker. You can also have stereo if you want. I don't know if two 108s will sound louder than a single 112. I do know that my FRFR112 goes louder that I want to play without good earplugs. Two FRFR112s could be earth shaking! I use my FRFR112 at home, in conjunction with a 15 watt tube amp. I live in an apartment, and although they can be EQ'd to compensate for Fletcher-Munson, 60 db peak is about as low as they'll go and still sound good. After 10pm I use my Rokit6 Studio Monitors. Quietly. I suppose that the 108s would work at home the same way. And if you live in a house vs an apartment and aren't worried about waking the kids or being murdered by your wife.......TURN IT UP!

If you turn off a loop, the loop is Bypassed, but that signal chain's output still goes to the Output Block and on to the Amp's Return so, yeah, you'll hear the signal from that chain on that amp. It's not bleed from one loop to another. As far as true stereo in 7cm, like Ping Pong delay bouncing from one amp to the other, I'm not sure how you'd do that, since the stereo effect has to feed both paths concurrently. I use 4cm with a tube amp. Everything after the FX Loop is stereo, and I split the Output Block in two. The split sends A hard LEFT and B hard RIGHT. The two Output Blocks are also panned hard LEFT (to the Amp Return) and the other panned hard RIGHT to an FRFR112. Pings and pongs go back and forth as expected. BUt, as noted, that won't work with separate paths.

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/whats-the-difference-between-mic-instrument-line-and-speaker-level-signals/ Differences Between Signal Levels Mic Level Mic level is the voltage of signal generated by a microphone. This is the lowest, or weakest, level signal of the four and requires a preamplifier to bring it up to line level. Instrument Level Instrument level signals fall between mic level (lower) and line level (higher) signals. These signals refer to any level put out by an instrument, commonly from an electric guitar or bass. A preamplifier is required to bring the signal up to line level. Line Level Line level signals are the highest level signals before amplification. This is the type of signal that typically flows through your recording system after the preamplifier stage and before the amplifier that powers your speakers. The two types of line levels are consumer and professional. IMPORTANT: Be careful not to send a line level signal to a preamplifier expecting a mic or instrument level signal. Consumer line level is rated around -10dBV and is what you’ll find in products like a CD player. Professional line level is rated around +4 dBu and can be found in equipment like mixing desks, preamplifiers, and signal processing equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stomp boxes are designed to go between guitar and amp input, and are Instrument Level. Instrument Level is lower than Line Level. I don't know all this audio engineer speak with db's and ohms and all that stuff. Based on the specs that brue8ski posted, the GM40 FX loop should be able to handle either Instrument or Line Level. Therefore I reason, if you're trying to keep down the level of the signal from the Helix to the FX return of the amp, use Instrument level.

So, I watched the video. I thought "WOW! Learn something new every day! Then I tried it. First on my Stomp. Not happening. Then on my Floor. Not Happening. In 6 switch looper. In 1 switch looper. Not happening. So I watched the video again, from 6:00. Then tried it again. NOT HAPPENING! As far as I can tell, once you hit that STOP button, then switch to another preset with or without looper, that loop is GONE! "GONE like a freight train, gone like yesterday, gone like a '59 Cadillac!" If you figure out how he did it, do report back. This has been a learning experience for me. When I got my Helix Floor 3 years ago, I tried the looper, decided it was a PITA and more trouble than it was worth. If I want to play over a loop for anything more than a quick phrase, I do it in a DAW, where I have total control over the recording. If I wanted to use a looper LIVE I'd buy a proper looper. Come back if you figure it out.

Older amps, Line level was often the default. Back then, guitarists used racks for things like delays and reverbs, which did double duty in studios where line level was the rule. These days, with the improvements to stompbox style delays and reverbs, more people use them in the loop, too. Often, sitting on top of their amps to avoid cable clutter on stage. Besides, who wants to carry around a big heavy rack? :-) Thing is, modern FX loops are not likely to be overdriven by a mismatch, so unless there are volume issues (like in OP's case), it's NBD.

That's only true if the FX loop on the amp either has an input level switch or is set up to use rack FX. IME most modern amps without input level switches on the fx loop are intended to be used with instrument level stompboxes.

You can't SAVE a loop. Once you stop the looper and change to a different loop or a preset without a Looper, the Loop is gone. Active means not bypassed. Yep, that's how it works. Record a loop. With the loop running, switch presets to overdub with a different sound. For more sophisticated functions, get a dedicated external looper. Nope, works the same on all platforms.

HUH? Set the Send Level to INSTRUMENT. In Global Settings > Ins/Outs Doesn't the Master Volume on the GM40 control the amp's output volume? Set the BIG KNOB to UNITY (max the knob or in Global Settings set it to control something other than the 1/4" out) then use the Master Volumes on the GM40's to control final output. OR set the GM40's Masters really high and use the BIG KNOB to set the final output (preferred method). When you're ready let me know and I'll link you to the threads where I've explained it.

Some things to consider when choosing modeled preamps vs power amps. Just as there's an interaction between a tube poweramp and a speaker, there's an interaction between a preamp and the poweramp it was designed to be used with, and that is part of the amp's signature sound and feel. A Marshall with EL34's, a Vox with EL84's, a Fender with 6L6's, etc.. L6 has attempted to model that interaction, and feeding your modeled Marshall preamp separately through any real world poweramp completely loses that interaction, along with the signature sound and "feel" of playing through that amp. When you use a complete Amp+Cab Block, you're hearing L6's attempt to model the sound and feel of all 4 (preamp, poweramp, cab and mic) components' interactions. IN THEORY, the modeled Amp+Cab(+mic) sound through a full range speaker SHOULD be the most accurate representation of that combination, with no extraneous frequencies that wouldn't exist in the real world. Everything after the modeled pre/power amp, INCLUDING MODELED SPEAKERS, MICS AND IRs, is just EQ until you get to the physical playback system. The physical playback system is the final determinant of the nature of the sound that reaches your ears, but has little to do with the "feel" of playing the amp. Just like when you mic a guitar amp through a PA system. The best you can do is to find the most neutral amp and speaker combination possible and EQ it to taste. A note about FRFR, AITR and "moving air". If you hear a sound, it's because air is moving. That's why there's no sound in a vacuum. True FRFR in a system that's practical for a guitarist to use is a myth. Only the "full range (of human hearing)" part is possible (in practice). AITR just means that the mechanical device that's moving the air sounds like a guitar cab, not a PA speaker. DISCLAIMER: If it Sounds good, to YOU, it IS good! IMHO, YMMV, In a Perfect world, etc.

Most people don't even use the effects loop, preferring to have all their effects into the front of the amp with one cable, vs the three required for 4cm. This is based on the many rig rundowns I've seen on Premier Guitar. Most of those who do use the effects loop put a delay and/or reverb stompbox on top of the amp, again, reducing cable clutter on stage. This is based on personal observation. A very few higher end players still have racks. Expensive, heavy, more stuff to carry. That's why most amps don't bother with a selector. Also, don't know if it's true for all, but some rack units have a selector built in. Cool cats like us who have modelers know how to use cable ties to turn 3 cables into one! :-)

Since the manual doesn't specify the 5150III's FX Loop Level, I'm going to assume that, like most other amp's that DON'T have a selector switch for the FX Loop, it's intended to be used with normal stomp boxes (NOT rack equipment). Set your Sends to INSTRUMENT. Attached is a sample preset demonstrating how to level the difference between an FX Loop with physical amp and bypassing the FX Loop for use with a Helix Amp. The footswitch, when lit, turns ON the FX Loop, turns OFF the Helix Amp, and sets the Output Block Level to 0.0. This is the default, as saved. When the footswitch is turned OFF (not lit), the FX Loop is turned OFF, the Helix Amp is turned ON, and the Output Block Level is set to -5.0. This works perfectly for the amp I used in the example, the German Mahadeva (Bogner Shiva). If you use a different amp that's LOUDER, reduce the MIN setting (level when switch is OFF) for the Output Level assignment (ie: from -5.0 to -10.0). If it's not loud enough, increase that setting (ie: from -5.0 to +5.0). You can also view the way I set it up as a "ballpark" and use the Channel Volume on the Helix Amp. The disadvantage to this is that changes in the Amp Channel Volume can affect downstream effects, IOW, messes with the preset's gain staging. I always use the BIG KNOB to adjust the level sent to the physical amp (1/4" Outs), to save me running back and forth to the amp. I usually set it between Noon and 2 oclock., then set the Master on the physical amp for 1st set starting level. FX Loop&AmpLvl.hlx

If it sounds good TO YOU, then it IS good! No rules!

I've been having lots of fun with this! I added the LA Studio Compressor and it smooths it out nicely! Try it! Ping Pong2.hlx

Ya gotta ask yourself "Why do I need an amp on the FRFR side?". If the idea is just to get a bigger sound, or to try and match the tone of the side with full tube amp, try something like the attached example preset. The FRFR side (right) has a Tilt EQ (FS10) and a Cab (FS11). You can use EXP2 to vary the Tilt from Dark to Bright. You can try any combination of EQ's and/or Cabs/Mics till you find something you like. The Preset has a 4x12 GB25 cab with a 4038 mic, which is very dark, and seems to work well with my FRFR112. The problem with having an amp on the FRFR side was, to me, it sounded awful behind the delay. Using EQ and/or cabs it sounds much better. I also threw in a stereo phaser. I think it sounds cool! Ping Pong.hlx

Balanced connections are most beneficial with cable runs >20', when unbalanced cables become subject to noise. If your monitors have XLR connectors, go XLR on both ends regardless of distance.

In order for the Looper to persist between presets, both presets must contain an active Looper Block.