chuskey Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I was wondering what others' opinion on L6's new pricing for model packs are. I feel like for what you're getting they're a bit overpriced. Before I get to my thoughts on that let me get some of the usual BS out of the way in an attempt to keep the thread on track and not get it derailed. Although I'm sure it will.... Line 6 doesn't "owe" us anything I don't think that I/we "deserve" any new amps/features Line 6 doesn't "have" to come out with any new amps/features I'm happy with the unit exactly how I bought it and if they never come out with any new updates I'm still perfectly happy and it works as advertised. I think that covers all of the usual objections when someone brings up a "criticism". So MAYBE we can avoid the "if you don't like it just don't buy it" comments.. Moving on. Over the course of the HD500 life span that have added several new features and some new amp models, always free of charge to the end user. I think that the features they've added have been great and I think it's one of the best units on the market when you factor in cost, versatility, and tone. Having said that we're looking at a unit that is over 4 years old, which is old for technology. Doesn't mean it doesn't sound good, but you've god Axe Fx coming out with new firmware all the time, Kemper just launched new firmware, and you have the Amplifire that just launched (at basically the same price point). Out of all those units I still think the HD500X is the best fit for my needs and is an incredible value for the money. But where I differ with the current development path is the pricing on the new model packs. Take the vintage pack. You get basically 4 amps (AC30 has 2 variations), 2 cabs, and acoustic model, and whatever Pete Anderson custom is. This is for $50. To me this seems pretty steep. On the high gain you're really only getting 2 new HD models and the rest are old Pod Farm algorithms. The "remastered" JCM800 to me just seems like an admition that the first one wasn't spot on. So why have to pay for a correction? Like it or not the HD500 is not the new kid on the block and I would think it would be worth adding a few new features to the firmware as incentive to get new users interested and keep the current user base on board. If you go fully loaded on the new model packs you're looking at $99 which puts you at Amplifire price range. Again I know they're not the same product, but Amplifire is brand new, has lots of hype around it, and by all accounts uses very high quality components. As well as promises of upcoming updates and amp models at no charge to the end user. I guess my point is that the HD series is aging and while it's VERY capable it is still old by tech standards. Instead of making new and existing users pay a premium for new models that are made with older and arguably less cutting edge modeling methods/technology, that same effort could be applied to attract new customers and strengthen the current user base if it was a free update. I bet even Axe Fx would catch flack for selling a handful amp models in a pack for $50. I realize that something is worth what people will pay for it and maybe these model packs will sell like hot cakes and people will love them. I almost feel like maybe this is the influence of Yamaha looking to get some new revenue out of the HD line. Line 6 hasn't charged for model packs since the XT days, and after the acquisition it's starts doing that again. After offering several free updates over the last few years? Just seems like there could be an influence making that happen. Or maybe it was something on ideascale that got voted up. Who knows. Just my .02. This may make perfect business sense for L6. I likely won't buy the model packs, and really don't see much there of interest for my personal taste, just thought it was an interesting development. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_Watt Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I don't have a problem with the model pack pricing. I will buy the Classic one. I have no use for Metal so I won't go for the whole package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazzy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I was wondering what others' opinion on L6's new pricing for model packs are. I feel like for what you're getting they're a bit overpriced. Sounds like reasonable thoughts to me. Good Post. I'm on the fence with this, only 'cause I have so much fun with what I've got already, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewolf48 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 It is on Idealscale: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/POD-HD-Model-Packs-Add-ons/650100-23508 The main reason why it was suggested was because it looked as though Line 6 were done with the HD series because nothing of any consequence had happened for a long time, and I presume that the idea of getting additional revenue was going to get something happening. Which it did... I didn't vote one way or the other on this, and will probably wait until after a few reviews before considering it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuskey Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 It is on Idealscale: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/POD-HD-Model-Packs-Add-ons/650100-23508 The main reason why it was suggested was because it looked as though Line 6 were done with the HD series because nothing of any consequence had happened for a long time, and I presume that the idea of getting additional revenue was going to get something happening. Which it did... I didn't vote one way or the other on this, and will probably wait until after a few reviews before considering it. This makes sense. If users want this and are willing to pay for it by all means L6 should do it. I'll be curious to hear some clips once people start using the new models. Thankfully I'm perfectly content with the tones I'm getting right now, so that should be enough to keep me from GAS'ing for model packs I don't need :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palico Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Out of all those units I still think the HD500X is the best fit for my needs and is an incredible value for the money. ............. I bet even Axe Fx would catch flack for selling a handful amp models in a pack for $50. No problem with the pricing and I plan on getting the full bundle. Axe Fx/Kemper/[insert new expensive wizbang here] inital cost is also much much higher than Line 6 charges for their products, as you pointed out. This is speculation but perhaps this is why those companies can afford to give away some of there work on upgrades because of that inital price point. Those upgrades cost money to develop, regarless of what company produces them. Programmers, Managers, Project managers, marketing staff, etc.... don't work for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozarkanatural Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 There's the assumption made that "old" (4-years) = worse than anything new out there. That's a false assumption. If a company gets it right from the get-go, it doesn't matter how old the technology is, it's still better than a lot of the newer offerings out there. This is especially true in the plug-in world. People still use "old" McDSP plugins (admittedly, they have had their updates) over newer offerings. There are many reasons for this, but one of them is surely: "the plugin is just that good". Now are the POD HD models "that good"? I'd say "good enough for me." With regards to amp sims, you have to think about the process of modelling. Do you want to model everything, point-to-point? But then the programming will be bulky and slow. Do you model "chunks" of the circuit that have no audible effect to slim down the code? Do you do the same with parts of the signal that affect the audible parts? How "precise" do you want your algorithm for a tube or transformer and all its irregularities to be? At what cost? I think Line 6 has done a good job making the right programming compromises to give us an excellent amp-sims. Every company has to make their own programming compromises, even with newer offerings. I can think of one example of a newer amp-sim plug-in from another company that people love, but to me their plugin obviously makes compromises that don't make their amp sims amp-like (in terms of how each tone control interacts with other parameters for each unique amp, and in terms of how each amp has very, very different clipping characteristics). For some more reading see this article on plugin modelling. With regards to price, $50 is very, very reasonable. 4 amps and 2 cabs = 6 very unique tone shaping tools. UAD is charging $150 for three pedal sims. Now THAT is ridiculous. My only bummer is that apparently most of these new "package" sims are older-generation sims. I enjoy the HD models much, much more than the older-generation stuff. It sometimes feels like the clipping in the older generation stuff is too similar amp-to-amp. I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong with that assessment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuskey Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 No problem with the pricing and I plan on getting the full bundle. Axe Fx/Kemper/[insert new expensive wizbang here] inital cost is also much much higher than Line 6 charges for their products, as you pointed out. This is speculation but perhaps this is why those companies can afford to give away some of there work on upgrades because of that inital price point. Those upgrades cost money to develop, regarless of what company produces them. Programmers, Managers, Project managers, marketing staff, etc.... don't work for free. I understand that development costs money and that programmers have to get paid. It also makes sense that part of the high price of the Axe is the inclusion of updates. On the new AX8 there's some talk that the amp selection will be limited and users can purchase add ons. This would be a way to keep the initial purchase price down and let users pay for just what they want. My thought was that "giving away" new updates could attract new users and generate more revenue from new sales. Having new features could attract customers who may be looking at some of the other offerings on the market. It's not that I expect L6 to work for free. I'm good if they don't put out another update at all. Like I said, if users are happy paying for the model packs L6 puts out then it's a win for everyone involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palico Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 On the new AX8 there's some talk that the amp selection will be limited and users can purchase add ons. This would be a way to keep the initial purchase price down and let users pay for just what they want. That is one I would love to see, to be able to purchase specific amps or pedals. However; I would also like the same thing from my cable company. But I know I'm not likely to see much of either. We are getting the Global EQ for free though. Which for the home hobbist is likely not a big thing. For the gigging guitarist that is huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellM5 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I agree the pricing is kind of steep, especially when you can buy Amplitube or Guitar Rig for $99 (on sale) or S-Gear for $129. I don't think it would attract more 1st time buyers if the model packs were free; the current list of models included with the HD500X is already overwhelming to a newbie. I'll be purchasing the full bundle as I play guitar and bass. If I didn't play bass I'd have to wait for reviews of the new models to make a decision. On the guitar side, I'm really looking forward to the 5150 but, unless it's unbelievably good, don't know if it would be worth the $50 price of the pack. I don't mind paying a reasonable price for new stuff but I would prefer an option to demo the models and purchase à la carte. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radatats Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I like the ala carte idea too. I just got a Zoom MS100BT to add to my rig as another amp/distortion path option with my 500 to save DSP and that is exactly what you can do with it. iPhone app to download and get a fully functional 15 minute demo of the amp or pedal installed by bluetooth and if you like it you buy it. I think this could provide a lot of new options for us and generate additional revenue for Line 6. In my opinion we REALLY need some new pedal sims, better OD's and distortions, models of some of the hot new pedals on the market. No surprise that a lot of folks think the current distortions are a weak link in the system... https://www.zoom-na.com/products/guitar-bass-effects/multistomp/zoom-ms-100bt-multistomp-guitar-pedal-bluetooth#features Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I was wondering what others' opinion on L6's new pricing for model packs are. I feel like for what you're getting they're a bit overpriced. At this point, it's impossible to tell one way or the other if it's worth the price. I'll know when I try them out. Until they're released, we're all just guessing blindly...But considering that I gambled $500 on the POD to begin with (and another $1000 on a JTV...nobody stocks them around here), another $50-$100 is hardly worth getting in a twist over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_Watt Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 If I only use one of the new Amp models, the cost of a model pack is worth it to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuskey Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 There's the assumption made that "old" (4-years) = worse than anything new out there. That's a false assumption. If a company gets it right from the get-go, it doesn't matter how old the technology is, it's still better than a lot of the newer offerings out there. This is especially true in the plug-in world. People still use "old" McDSP plugins (admittedly, they have had their updates) over newer offerings. There are many reasons for this, but one of them is surely: "the plugin is just that good". Now are the POD HD models "that good"? I'd say "good enough for me." With regards to amp sims, you have to think about the process of modelling. Do you want to model everything, point-to-point? But then the programming will be bulky and slow. Do you model "chunks" of the circuit that have no audible effect to slim down the code? Do you do the same with parts of the signal that affect the audible parts? How "precise" do you want your algorithm for a tube or transformer and all its irregularities to be? At what cost? I think Line 6 has done a good job making the right programming compromises to give us an excellent amp-sims. Every company has to make their own programming compromises, even with newer offerings. I can think of one example of a newer amp-sim plug-in from another company that people love, but to me their plugin obviously makes compromises that don't make their amp sims amp-like (in terms of how each tone control interacts with other parameters for each unique amp, and in terms of how each amp has very, very different clipping characteristics). For some more reading see this article on plugin modelling. With regards to price, $50 is very, very reasonable. 4 amps and 2 cabs = 6 very unique tone shaping tools. UAD is charging $150 for three pedal sims. Now THAT is ridiculous. My only bummer is that apparently most of these new "package" sims are older-generation sims. I enjoy the HD models much, much more than the older-generation stuff. It sometimes feels like the clipping in the older generation stuff is too similar amp-to-amp. I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong with that assessment. I don't personally feel/assume that the older tech is worse than the newer stuff that's out there, but that will be the market perception. When it comes to digital gear, be it guitar processors or smartphones, it can be all about the latest greatest. It's a tough battle to counter that mentality. I will say that I've been impressed with some of the newer stuff to come along recently. I purchased S Gear and it is really great!! What I like about it is that it is so quick to get to some really great tones going. I'm at the point now where I can get the HD500X doing what I want to in a matter of minutes, but it took me a lot of tweaking to figure out how to get it there. I've recently been playing around more with the DEP and can honestly say I'm about as happy with the tones I'm getting as I am with S Gear. Which is saying a lot. To me the HD500X presents a value in the market that nothing else comes close to. It has good tones, the routing is insanely flexible, it can be tweaked to sound great with electric, acoustic, bass, vocals, it's a great midi controller, it's an audio interface, it's pricing extremely competitively for what it does, etc. If you've spent $500 on the pedal, and maybe additional on a JTV (I have 2), then one way to look at it is that another $50-100 isn't that much more. However the way I'm kind of looking at it is to spend an additional 10-20% of the cost of the unit for the amount of new amp models being offered seems expensive. Especially when a lot of them on the metal pack are not even HD models. Having said all that, I can certainly appreciate the fact that this was on ideascale and got implemented. That is a great thing and proves that L6 is listening. Which is the point of something like ideascale. It's somewhat a democracy of ideas and in this case the majority spoke and they listened. Bravo L6. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tboneous Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I like the ala carte idea too. I just got a Zoom MS100BT to add to my rig as another amp/distortion path option with my 500 to save DSP and that is exactly what you can do with it. iPhone app to download and get a fully functional 15 minute demo of the amp or pedal installed by bluetooth and if you like it you buy it. I think this could provide a lot of new options for us and generate additional revenue for Line 6. In my opinion we REALLY need some new pedal sims, better OD's and distortions, models of some of the hot new pedals on the market. No surprise that a lot of folks think the current distortions are a weak link in the system... https://www.zoom-na.com/products/guitar-bass-effects/multistomp/zoom-ms-100bt-multistomp-guitar-pedal-bluetooth#features did you recently update your Zoom? I thought you went with the 70 CDR? Is the Bluetooth worth the extra dough? I like the pod distortion choices. I only use 4 of them and the rock to me. I liked the CDR idea because of the lack of distortion. Are you finding that you like the Zoom distortion? Thanx for the link but the tubby rock dog dude from 1983 who finger banged a guitar for 6 min towards the bottom of the page was just friggen HORRIBLE! All I am able to discern from that clip is that the Zoom 100BT is capable of making a bunch of noise. And the constant hair flipping......PRICELESS! Someone needs to tell homeboy that it's 2015 now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott93105 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I think it's absurd to charge $99 for the new model packs - especially if they're not even HD... but then again, maybe HD doesn't really mean what we think it does. Perhaps it's just marketing. I have both the HD500X and the FX-100 - and for jamming at home and basic recording - the FX100 sounds just as good if not better than the HD500X. I'll take everybody's word for it that the HD500 is superior under detailed situations and a trained ear. One could argue, my POD 2.0 produces tones that rival both units... So, yes, if you are home grown rock star jamming to the tv and your favorite tunes and you want a bunch of amp models and effects, take the $99 bucks and invest it towards the $200 Amplifi TT - much better bang for the buck. Only those extermely high on life can argue the HD500 screen is easier to navigate than the retina display of the Amplifi app on a phone or ipad. The Firehawk is just about out - and it has every amp model the HD500X and FX100 has, with as much I/O and routing options as they care to enable via software. The HD series is old and it's replacement will certainly be the Firehhawk 2 - or whatever they call the HD replacement. Costs incurred developing these new amp models is more than worth it to keep an aging product afloat -- and knowing line 6, they'll use these amp models for years in future amps, floorboard, and software units. It's not like they hired a team to make these new amp models specifically for the HD500. Developing amp models for a wide range of products is what they do! We already paid -- and we'll pay again as we move forward buying new products. Having said that, I LOVE the idea of keeping a product going for as long as possible - if it aint broke, don't fix it (Did I mention I still use my POD 2.0). The problem with the HD series is the now aging processor... So while software updates can extend the usable life of your PC, you get to a point where your hardware limits updates. The HD processor is old like that and definintely at the end of its life cycle. There are numerous ipad virtual guitar apps under $20 that already sound better than the HD (try BIAS) and include all sorts of amps (consider how much more powerful the processor is on your ipad vs the processor in the HD500). How can Line6 justify charging $100 for 10 new amps on old hardware? Save that boutique pricing for recording plug ins! Now, if they were selling a new processor, or a color screen you could update your HD with, then that might be worth $100, but to charge us for software they are already developing feels kind of like a scam. I'm hoping that Line6 is going to surprise us all and give away these new amp models for the HD series. Get us talking about buying them in these forums and THEN 'give' them away... that would be some cool marketing. That would make me feel better about the $1000's of dollars I've dropped on L6 over the years. Isn't customer loyalty worth giving away a few amp models to EXISTING customers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 not going to happen. sorry... but amp models are not free to create... and you don't keep customer loyalty or anything else if you go bankrupt giving away everything for free. they will be giving us a global EQ and who knows what else... and the new models will be available to those that do think they are worth a few bucks... those that don't think it's worth it, still have a pretty good set of models. I'm hoping that Line6 is going to surprise us all and give away these new amp models for the HD series. Get us talking about buying them in these forums and THEN 'give' them away... that would be some cool marketing. That would make me feel better about the $1000's of dollars I've dropped on L6 over the years. Isn't customer loyalty worth giving away a few amp models to EXISTING customers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipperShred Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 As long as the old X3 models have a preamp-only option I think I'll be happy. If they're full models only, then the value proposition goes right out the window for me. I use the HD Pro as a Preamp/FX unit pretty much exclusively, so I hope they're good to go for live use (into a poweramp, then into a 4x12), because 50 bucks USD for 3/10 functionality is ridiculous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tboneous Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 It does seem a bit pricey when you can plug something like a MS100BT in the FX Loop like Radatats did and get 8 new amp models and a whole bunch of new FX for about the same money without any drain on DSP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuberto Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 As long as the old X3 models have a preamp-only option I think I'll be happy. If they're full models only, then the value proposition goes right out the window for me. I use the HD Pro as a Preamp/FX unit pretty much exclusively, so I hope they're good to go for live use (into a poweramp, then into a 4x12), because 50 bucks USD for 3/10 functionality is ridiculous. Everything I've seen says that the X3 models are straight copies, therefore if they were full models on the X3, that's what we'll get. I don't expect them to be preamp only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I am fine with the price; it is what it is, and I would buy the full bundle so I get the bass amps too. In particular, I am most interested to know if all the new additions will feature 'pre' only versions for use with the DT amps - or will that just be the full-HD models only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_Igloo Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I am most interested to know if all the new additions will feature 'pre' only versions for use with the DT amps - or will that just be the full-HD models only. Pre-only versions of XT models have never existed, and we weren't able to create any when porting them to the model packs. HD models will have both full and pre-only versions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Pre-only versions of XT models have never existed, and we weren't able to create any when porting them to the model packs. HD models will have both full and pre-only versions. Thanks for the response! That makes sense, seems fair enough. There are still a bunch of new HD models to look forward to and the new bass amps are going to be sweet!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCproducer Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I'm stoked they are modelling the shiva, if the model sounds good it will all be worth it for me. Also glad the JCM 800 is being revisiting, felt like that was lacking compared to some of the other models. Sooooo, it's mid March, it can't be too far away right? Any idea of an actual release date yet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFix Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Sorry if I repeat myself, but everybody is talking about pricing for HD500.What about PRO? It is more expansive than 500 and I expected for packs to be free at least for it... Pro should have some extra features, but it doesn't have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 the model packs will not be free for any device. the model packs will be the same price for the pro. the pro will never have anything extra or free that isn't included in the package when you buy it. Sorry if I repeat myself, but everybody is talking about pricing for HD500.What about PRO? It is more expansive than 500 and I expected for packs to be free at least for it... Pro should have some extra features, but it doesn't have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 the model packs will not be free for any device. the model packs will be the same price for the pro. the pro will never have anything extra or free that isn't included in the package when you buy it. But I want my free stuff...WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I'd like to see them come out with some promo's or contests to help people out and celebrate the launch.... i'm excited to see these come out... i think the price and packaging is very reasonable.... in fact even a bargain! i'm not going to use every model but between the JC120, AC30, Orange, and JCM800 i'm going to have some fun! (and then there's the bass models!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidysm Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I'm not gonna argue for or against prices of the packs but wanted to raise that for those like myself who've bought in to the "Dream Rig" idea they sold it would be nice to see a pack of only the hd guitar amps. The non pre models are really not a lot of use to live users of this setup as you'd be doubling up the power section. I've already invested enough money buying the tyler jtv and dt25 when they first came out to go with my hd500 without having to pay for a bunch of models I won't use because someone has bundled the models into all or nothing packs that don't suit. Even better would be to give the option to buy the models individually for say 5 or 10 bucks each so I'm not paying out for a bunch of bass amps and non HD amps that won't work in the dream rig. For live users all we seem to be getting is a fixed jcm800, an ac30 that hopefully isn't quieter than the ac15 and 2 new amps in the orange and fenders. Oh, and hopefully a shiva which has been modeled as good as the job they did with the soldanos. A pricing strategy of 5 for a non hd amp, 10 for an hd amp or 15 for a twin channel hd amp could be a way forward and also reveal what types of amps are actually popular and worth spending time on. Anyway, that's my thoughts. I'm not bitter I'm not going to vow never to buy line 6 again if I don't get my way but I'm also never going to pay $100, probably more in the uk I'm guessing, for the packs as they stand regardless of how good they are. The development cost argument is fine and paying for new features is justified but once the development's finished, as it is for this update, it's important to remember that revenue is volume of sales times cost. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arislaf Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I think the pricing is ok. I will definitely buy these amps. All of them. And if they give more,more of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I don't care about the high gain amps, but the other two look good to me. I will buy them when they are available. -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipperShred Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I could've swore the XT had a preamp-only option - what the heck was the output setting STACK PWRAMP for if that wasn't the "preamp" setting on the xt? I rocked an XT Pro for a while and remember getting a good sound in a poweramp/cab setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott93105 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Pre-only versions of XT models have never existed, and we weren't able to create any when porting them to the model packs. HD models will have both full and pre-only versions. Really? So an updated HD will now have non HD models? Am I the only one who thinks this odd? Why not start from scratch with any new amp models and keep the HD truly HD? So the three model packs will each have a mix of HD and X3 models? I don't understand where all the value is - you bastardize your HD with old amp models - and you pay $ for it? Will the X3 amp models sound better than they do on the Amplifi FX-100? Ooo - I sound kinda harsh. I don't mean to be. Again, I am a longtime fan of Line6 and literally have $1000's of dollars in Line 6 gear. All of us in this thread spent at least $500 on our HD; we are all prepared to pay to play, but cost needs to be fair. What is fair? That's the Line6million dollar question, but as others have pointed out, modeled amps are becoming cheaper and cheaper. I bought all sorts of modeled amp software in the form of ipad apps, desktop apps, and desktop plugins in 2014 and continue to do so to date. From my perspective, considering the current amp model software market, and the proportional cost of the actual device (HD500X) to the proposed model pack price, and the arguably lesser non-HD models being included, I do not think the price is justified. As many of you have pointed out, I can elect to not purchase... but where's the fun in that! I agree with a comment above, if they really are going to turn our HD's into an app store of sorts... Let us buy the amp models we want. Offer em all individually, and they can then bundle em all sorts of different ways to offer discounts when purchasing multiple amp models at once. Maybe come out with an all-HD model pack for those wanting to retain the HD only nature of their device? BONUS QUESTION: How are the actual models stored on an HD500X; are there any storage concerns? How many different amp models might an HD500X hold? Are there any storage differences between 500, 500X, and Pro versions? And Uber, you are the man, but please don't be so negative... you never know what Line6 will do! Let's give em a chance! :-) I think you may be wrong... I bet new HD500x's will include the new model packs or offer an update for free. Who would pay $500 for a new HD500x knowing a $100 update is required to get all the amp models? Once they clear some revenue on the L6 diehards that can't wait to pay whatever for whatever Line 6 puts out, I think they just may open up the new model packs to all. I'm gonna keep the faith. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_Igloo Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Really? So an updated HD will now have non HD models? Am I the only one who thinks this odd? Why not start from scratch with any new amp models and keep the HD truly HD? So the three model packs will each have a mix of HD and X3 models? HD has had L6 Elektrik, Doom, and Epic models (all XT) for years, so there's a precedent. EDIT: I'M WRONG. A bunch of artist endorsees and a ton of other people begged for their favorite XT models (mainly the metal ones) and since we'd done a lot of work getting both XT and HD models working together in Firehawk FX, model packs were a no-brainer. I won't lie, tho'. The whole "undermining HD with XT models" debate isn't unheard of in these hallowed halls. But when it comes down to it, XT models sound great, are on countless major label records, and take up less DSP, so you'll have more room for HD effects. Win-win. There are currently no plans to "unlock" model packs in future shipments of HD500X/Pro X, but I suppose anything's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I assume you mean me.... not being negative.... i'm going from historical precedence... the pro's have never gotten anything other than the form factor, built in power supply, and extra I/O that comes in the box. i think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you hope for anything different..... i'll quite happily be wrong... And Uber, you are the man, but please don't be so negative... you never know what Line6 will do! Let's give em a chance! :-) I think you may be wrong... I bet new HD500x's will include the new model packs or offer an update for free. Who would pay $500 for a new HD500x knowing a $100 update is required to get all the amp models? Once they clear some revenue on the L6 diehards that can't wait to pay whatever for whatever Line 6 puts out, I think they just may open up the new model packs to all. I'm gonna keep the faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipperShred Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 " L6 Elektrik, Doom, and Epic models (all XT) for years" That's some serious back pedaling there. And Eletrik takes up more DSP than the updated uberschall - switched out the uber for the elektrik on more than a few presets and hit the wall suddenly. And if they really are xt/x3 models, why can you(L6) produce preamp-only versions and full-amp-with-DEP-parameters OF THOSE FOR FREE, and yet on a monetized model pack where you're asking 50 bucks a pop phone-in full models only? The value proposition's fading fast here....:huh: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_brown Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I do agree with RipperShred. If Line6 wants to charge for a model pack, it should contain all HD models with Pre versions. But on the flip side, they don't owe us anything for free. We bought the PODHD with what it had. Any expectation of getting more for free later is wishful thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_Igloo Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 does not add up! explain better please Actually, sorry, guys. I misspoke. Electric, Doom, and Epic have always indeed been HD. Last night I was working on a new song and noticed Pre versions of all three. Thought "Hmm... Wait, XT models don't have... Oh crap..." And then I totally forgot to type a retraction before going to bed. Apologies. Not sure why I spaced on it—maybe because the names sound like XT models and I've been in HD/XT model pack land for so long. Thanks for keeping me straight, hughanico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 they are creating a product (model packs) its really very simple... if you like the product and think its worth it..... buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innovine Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 If the orange gets good reviews I'd give $20 for it. Couldn't care less about the rest of em, I already have more amps than I know what to do with [i use only 3-4 of em) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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