Import or transfer HD500 patches to Helix

[Leftzilla]

Out of curiosity will there be a way to import or load HD500 or HD500x patches?  Just curious if I am going to have to rebuild my HD500 patches if/when I purchase the unit.  Just wishful thinking on my part.

[radatats]

totally different architecture, routing, FX, amps, separate cabs, IR's...  no way anything translates directly.  Expect to build all new patches. ;)

[cruisinon2]

Out of curiosity will there be a way to import or load HD500 or HD500x patches? Just curious if I am going to have to rebuild my HD500 patches if/when I purchase the unit. Just wishful thinking on my part.

Even if it were possible, why would you want to? Helix is supposed to be a superior modeler. You'd effectively be paying $1500 for a device that would then proceed do an impression of the POD you already have.

[davidb7170]

I'm likely to get a Helix, and am expecting to have to re-construct my favorite patches, but in reality, I'd think it would be theoretically possible to import patches. The patches are nothing more than spec's or instructions for the HD500(X) to put together this amp and that speaker with this DEP setting and that mike, and that FX block with these settings in these block positions... The Helix has so many more possibilities that if you make use of them, there'd be no way to export back to a 500(X).

 

This is somewhat analogous to when the 500X came out -- the saved 500 patches themselves were not loadable from the PC directly to the 500X, but it was only the file extension. If you copy the patch file and rename it with the new file extension, or drag and drop, the file works in the 500X. With the expanded DSP of the 500X though, if you loaded a patch up close to it's DSP limit, if you went back to the 500 with the patch from the 500X, it would error out, as it would not have the DSP to do the deal.... I have a 500X and a backup 500 -- I keep them in sync fairly regularly -- back & forth with set lists and patches, etc. I don't make use of dual amp patches, so rarely have I had issues with files from the 500X not working in the 500 -- once, I think, I had too many FX, or DSP heavy FX and the 500 choked on it. I think I went to a less DSP intensive reverb -- it was no biggie, as I recall.

 

I would expect the Helix to be capable of doing what a 500(X) would set up to do, and much more. If they changed the internal file structure of the patch backup to be incompatible (more than just a file extension), then not likely unless someone would create some translator app.

 

Now -- I'm betting all of this is moot, as the Helix "HX" amps & FX were all modeled from the ground up. Even if they could receive the patch setup instructions, they would likely not sound the same at all, so you'd end up tweaking anyway...  

 

Dave

[rino2]

Well... if you have hundred of patches and you sell you old device for the new one, it start to make sense!!!!...

 

The final goal isn't to play the 500 or 500x patches on Helix but to import the value and the type of the effects from one device to another.

After that I agree, you must work on it

[Leftzilla]

rino2 pretty much hit it on the head.  Obviously Helix is a better modeler which is the whole point of upgrading to it.  But having the capability of pulling in a patch that I am already familiar with and the effect chains would give me a good reference point to start from.  I have two albums out with my prog band which in some songs includes up to 4 patch changes with the same amount of Variax model changes that i have to be able to recreate live along with maintaining a sonic balance with the rest of the band but mainly the keyboard player.  I know that a lot of effort went into Helix to make it very easy to work with, so it may end up being a moot point in the end.

[stevekc]

FWIW - I cultivated a routine for "patch cloning" - true its not perfect but if you follow the steps here, its should get you in the ball park 

 

Patch Cloning

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4087.0

 

 

-----

 

 

This is more difficult because each manufacturers DSP modeler has its own peculiar strengths and weaknesses, but you can  build a library of patches for your new DSP Amp Modeling multi-FX unit by reviewing the settings of patches you desire on third party pedals - as long as they have an Editor that can load patches for review "off line" without the need to own the genuine   multi-FX unit for the tones you seek  - recreate your favorite patches as follows:

 

1)  Download the "Guitar MultiFX Y"  patches you have interest in, and have a ballpark idea what they should sound like. 

2) Install and launch the "Guitar MultiFX Y" Editor  - just must confirm the Editor allows you to view and edit all patch parameters without the actual ""Guitar MultiFX Y" actually present and connected via USB. )

3) Load the desired "Guitar MultiFX Y" patch of interest

4) Inspect and document all the control settings and FX parameters for "Guitar MultiFX Y"! (hint, use a spreadsheet app, or take many screenshots of the FX parameter Edit screens) 

5) Close the "Guitar MultiFX Y" Editor

6) Launch the Editor for your current Guitar MultiFX unit, or navigate the Helix LCD.

7) Select a User patch area for "research and development"  and Intialize it to clear and create a black patch area:    

8 ) Then the fun begins! Use the Helix LCD and attempt to adjust all available Helix controls so they get in the ballpark of the "Guitar MultiFX Y" control settings acquired in step #4, and save it with a similar name as the "Guitar MultiFX Y" patch, but on the Helix.

9 ) Monitor your progress on Helix and listen.

10 ) Repeat Step #8  as necessary. 

[Leftzilla]

Great thank you very much!

[MathiasUlrick]

Out of curiosity will there be a way to import or load HD500 or HD500x patches?  Just curious if I am going to have to rebuild my HD500 patches if/when I purchase the unit.  Just wishful thinking on my part.

 

I wouldn't even want to do this.  Part of new tech for me is seeing what I get make it do!

[pacifier140684]

so just a quick question... i have a HD500x..... on the custometones say the HD500x doesnt have a patch i want but the helix or HD500 or something else has a patch...

Can i still download it onto the HD500x? 

I know if it was possible that i would still have to tweak or whatnot etc etc or might have certain things missing but would it still work as a starter to work off in a way?

 

Cheers for any responses! :)

[jbuhajla]

so just a quick question... i have a HD500x..... on the custometones say the HD500x doesnt have a patch i want but the helix or HD500 or something else has a patch...

Can i still download it onto the HD500x? 

I know if it was possible that i would still have to tweak or whatnot etc etc or might have certain things missing but would it still work as a starter to work off in a way?

 

Cheers for any responses! :)

Helix presets won't work in HD500 and vice versa. The other question you have is probably more appropriate for the HD forum. 

[vanderbilly]

I know this is an old thread but I also want to reproduce a couple of patches form the HD500 to my Helix. Simply because I liked them and want to use them in the future. Specifically I was looking on how to build the HD500 patch called  "FX Heavy,  "Filter Trem". I've seriously tried but found it nearly impossible to replicate this patch on the Helix. This guy is demoing it. If anyone can productively point me in the right direction without reaming me for not utilizing the superior Helix capabilities (which I do every day) I would appreciate it. 

 

(queued for your viewing pleasure) 

 

[silverhead]

I guess the starting point, which you may have already tried, is to manually recreate the HD500 patch by using the same amp and FX models and settings (or as close as possible) and a Telecaster guitar with the same pickup switch setting (which I can’t see in the above image but may be visible elsewhere in the video). You can run the HD500Edit program offline to inspect the details of the patch settings. It won’t sound exactly the same of course due to the different underlying modelling technologies but it might get you close enough to tweak the Helix patch to your satisfaction.

[vanderbilly]

I was unaware I could run the HD500Edit program offline to inspect the patch settings. I'll give that a try. I've got the tone and filter down but that delay is elusive . Thnaks!

[vanderbilly]

Back from the dead and thought I would give this another try.

Summary: I have a Helix and am trying to recreate a HD500 preset (filter trem) on the Helix.

Found the HD500 "filter trem" patch and loaded it into the "POD HD500 Edit" app (offline) so I can now see the presets, amps. etc.. Nothing special in the amps, mixer or controllers and while I can see there are multiple effects assigned, only a few effects are actually on.

I've attached a screenshots of POD HD500 Edit with the patch loaded (FX screen only)

 

Added 2 more screenshots that show the rebuilding attempt in HX edit and the main 3 effects are 1st in the top chain. Dyn, Filt, Mod and i have attached screenshots for each one. The settings look spot on. 
 
(DYN)

 

(FILT)

 

 

(MOD)

 

In POD HD500 Edit I can see which effects are "ON" in the "FX" screen and can see the settings for that preset as well. I did find most of those same effects are available on my Helix in the "legacy" dropdown for similar effects. What I mean by legacy is, when you use the HX Edit for the Helix, and add a "filter" you can select either mono, stereo or legacy in the dropdown and that gives you different options of the filter effect. Line6 maybe added the legacy option for this reason?

Anyway I have recreated the preset the best I can and all settings look exact to me, but it does not sounds the same. Some things are close but there is a bunch going on in that patch. I believe my issue is recreating the "pattern tremolo" effect. Does anyone out there have a HD500 and a Helix and the ability to assist? I know it's a big ask for zero reward but it would be nice to recreate that. I've also attached an audio clip of me going through patches on the HD500 in my drummers house so you can hear the patch in more detail if interested. I've also attached an audio clip of the recreated sound playing the same thing. 

 

HD500 Filter trem audio

 

Helix Filter trem recreation fail audio

 

 

    
Please don't bash me and thanks in advance. 
   

[vanderbilly]

BTW on the "HD500 Filter trem" audio clip, I'm playing simple quarter notes 

[silverhead]

Don't know that it will help, but it's not unusual for things to sound different between POD HD and Helix with the exact same settings on the same models. The modeling technology and the DSP engine are different so that will mean tonal differences. What you've done gives a good baseline. Tweaking should be expected.

 

Also, Helix provides improved tonal quality (at least most would say so). Imho you are doing yourself a disservice if your goal with Helix is to reproduce HD500 tones. You should be able to get better results, but there's a learning curve.

[Kilrahi]

On 10/6/2022 at 6:25 PM, vanderbilly said:

BTW on the "HD500 Filter trem" audio clip, I'm playing simple quarter notes 

 

I noticed the Helix ends with two distortions. Is that the same as the HD 500?

[vanderbilly]

On 10/6/2022 at 9:14 PM, Kilrahi said:

 

I noticed the Helix ends with two distortions. Is that the same as the HD 500?

No, I added those to the Helix patch just for tone testing and they were both turned off. Tone is not the issue for me, it's the weird tremolos.  

[Kilrahi]

On 10/7/2022 at 7:00 AM, vanderbilly said:

No, I added those to the Helix patch just for tone testing and they were both turned off. Tone is not the issue for me, it's the weird tremolos.  

 

The thing is, time-based effects before heavy distortion can impact how they behave. I'm just trying to be thorough. 

 

I actually think you've been using a harder approach, though. It looks like you've been recreating the whole chain and then trying to match the whole chain to the previous chain. If it's that important, in my opinion the smarter approach is to elimination everything but one block. No amp. No EQ. No Distortion. Just one block in either the HD 500 or the Helix. 

 

Then do your best to match that one Helix block. Once you've felt you've gotten as close as possible, save it to your favorites, and move on to the next block, repeat until it's matched and save to favorites, etc. 

 

Then once you have all of the blocks where you need them try putting it in a chain and see how it sounds. 

 

From there it's a matter of WHAT is it you want more of? You'll then know how each block works, how it impacts various sounds, and if you want more or less of something it will be easier for you to season it how you want. 

[vanderbilly]

I hear you and that makes good sense. I did try that for the most part by turning off effects within the chain after I built it. (same thing basically as building one by one. However the issue is that weird tremolo timing. I can hear and mostly understand the pattern, but cannot reproduce it.   

[vanderbilly]

On 10/6/2022 at 8:01 PM, silverhead said:

Don't know that it will help, but it's not unusual for things to sound different between POD HD and Helix with the exact same settings on the same models. The modeling technology and the DSP engine are different so that will mean tonal differences. What you've done gives a good baseline. Tweaking should be expected.

 

Also, Helix provides improved tonal quality (at least most would say so). Imho you are doing yourself a disservice if your goal with Helix is to reproduce HD500 tones. You should be able to get better results, but there's a learning curve.

yes I am aware but it's not really the tone I'm after as the Helix is way better, it's the tremolo effect. 

[codamedia]

On 10/6/2022 at 3:59 PM, vanderbilly said:

I believe my issue is recreating the "pattern tremolo" effect.

 

Sorry for the "is it plugged in" tech question :) 

 

It's probably nothing... but I notice in all your screen shots that the Pattern Trem in the Helix is turned off. 

Can we assume that's just the moment that you took the screen shot?  

 

[vanderbilly]

On 10/9/2022 at 8:56 AM, codamedia said:

 

Sorry for the "is it plugged in" tech question :) 

 

It's probably nothing... but I notice in all your screen shots that the Pattern Trem in the Helix is turned off. 

Can we assume that's just the moment that you took the screen shot?  

 

Ha! Good observation and yes that that was only during the screenshot as I was testing.  

[lunaticval]

Hi, the Helix has a "Legacy" section for each fx block, there you can find the sounds of the previous pedals, go to filter, legacy and there you have the filters from the HD500, including the great Seeker filter, which I personally love :)

[datacommando]

On 12/16/2022 at 1:17 PM, lunaticval said:

Hi, the Helix has a "Legacy" section for each fx block, there you can find the sounds of the previous pedals, go to filter, legacy and there you have the filters from the HD500, including the great Seeker filter, which I personally love :)

Hi,

 

Check the posted screenshots above - the “recreated” patch from the HD 500 in HX Edit is using the Legacy FX - Boost Comp, Seeker and Pattern Tremelo. The issue appears to be with the Pattern Tremelo effect.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.