Is it true that Helix doesn't replace the POD ?

[scias23]

Just want to confirm if this is the case.

[pianoguyy]

You are correct. 

 

At least, in certain perspectives. 

 

 

 

 

 

Think about cars. Everyone knows cars. 

 

A 2015 Ford Fusion will be replaced by the 2016 Ford Fusion. 

A 2015 Ford Fusion is not replaced by a 2016 Ford Mustang. 

 

The Helix and the HD units are the Mustang and Fusion. Two totally different items. So, no, one does not replace the other. 

However... 

 

On the opposite end of the thought process... 

The HD500 has been out for 5 years? The Helix does everything it does and more. So, of course it is the replacement model. 

 

 

 

They are still selling the current products, so from a sales perspective, it makes no sense to call one a replacement. And the price difference certainly makes them attractive to different people. 

But something tells me (its called common sense), that they will eventually make a Helix Lite, which would be half the price with half the features and then would be a direct competitor for the current HD units. Or, they could, instead of calling it a mini-Helix, they could call it a HD505. 

 

 

 

 

Helix and HD500 are not the same as iPhone 5 and iPhone 6. It's more like iPhone and iPod. 

One is a phone and one is a music player. BUT, who needs an iPod when you have an iPhone that does everything the iPod does and so much more. 

[cruisinon2]

Who cares? There's a reason that the tag-line for Helix is not "The last amp you'll ever buy".

 

This is a disposable society. Nothing lasts forever. And as long as the the pace of technology continues to ramp up, products will become obsolete faster and faster.

 

They'll keep selling them until incoming orders dwindle to the point where another production run is not cost effective...which is absolutely guaranteed to happen somewhere between 5 minutes from now, and Doomsday.

[joel_brown]

PODHD = $500 price point

Helix = $1500 price point

 

Until something newer in the $500 price point is available, the PODHD will not go away.  This is just common sense.

[radatats]

I doubt there will be a lite version.  They tried the lite version of the HD500 with the 300,400 and that didn't last. The Firehawk is a HD500 lite but certainly not any big break in price point.  I think they will continue to support the different price points with appropriate gear, from the Spider line, through Amplifi and HD500 up to Helix.

 

But something tells me (its called common sense), that they will eventually make a Helix Lite, which would be half the price with half the features and then would be a direct competitor for the current HD units. Or, they could, instead of calling it a mini-Helix, they could call it a HD505.

[cruisinon2]

PODHD = $500 price point

Helix = $1500 price point

 

Until something newer in the $500 price point is available, the PODHD will not go away. This is just common sense.

Nothing is guaranteed. Fractal is prefectly content to not sell anything for five hundred bucks. Companies change strategy all the time, so who knows?

 

"You are witnesses at the rebirth of Spinal Tap...we hope you enjoy our new direction!" ;)

[phil_m]

If you're a POD user and decide to buy a Helix, it probably will replace your POD in the sense that you'll probably use the Helix in the situations where you were previously using the POD. Since having the Helix, there hasn't really been an instance where I've found something that the HD500 can do that the Helix can't (although, right now, the Helix doesn't work as Workbench interface for the Variax - I'm sure that's only a matter of time). But Line 6 isn't discontinuing the POD HD500X or HD Pro X. They know as well as anyone that a good number of people aren't going to be wanting to drop $1500 on a piece of gear, and there's still a need for great gear at a lower price point.

[duncann]

If you're a POD user and decide to buy a Helix, it probably will replace your POD in the sense that you'll probably use the Helix in the situations where you were previously using the POD. Since having the Helix, there hasn't really been an instance where I've found something that the HD500 can do that the Helix can't (although, right now, the Helix doesn't work as Workbench interface for the Variax - I'm sure that's only a matter of time). But Line 6 isn't discontinuing the POD HD500X or HD Pro X. They know as well as anyone that a good number of people aren't going to be wanting to drop $1500 on a piece of gear, and there's still a need for great gear at a lower price point.

 

What about an auto-swell delay, reverse delay, auto-wah, growler, and panner effects? Unless the flexible routing in combination with the synth effects in Helix can cover a growler type effect? I continue to be optimistic that these holes are only temporary.

[BillBee]

If you're a POD user and decide to buy a Helix, it probably will replace your POD in the sense that you'll probably use the Helix in the situations where you were previously using the POD. Since having the Helix, there hasn't really been an instance where I've found something that the HD500 can do that the Helix can't (although, right now, the Helix doesn't work as Workbench interface for the Variax - I'm sure that's only a matter of time). But Line 6 isn't discontinuing the POD HD500X or HD Pro X. They know as well as anyone that a good number of people aren't going to be wanting to drop $1500 on a piece of gear, and there's still a need for great gear at a lower price point.

 

Well put Phil. I agree that a $1500 price point will be a sticking point for the casual user. My wife almost went nuts at the price for the HD. In the end it will be market, margins and price point.

 

Long Live the Bean!!

 

\m/ B!ll \m/

[cruisinon2]

Well put Phil. I agree that a $1500 price point will be a sticking point for the casual user. My wife almost went nuts at the price for the HD. In the end it will be market, margins and price point.

 

Long Live the Bean!!

 

\m/ B!ll \m/

If she keeps complaining, just tell her you'll sell one of her shoes to pay for it...;)

[BillBee]

If she keeps complaining, just tell her you'll sell one of her shoes to pay for it... ;)

 

That is Plan B my man! Going to call an audible depending on the tax return. ;)

[cruisinon2]

That is Plan B my man! Going to call an audible depending on the tax return. ;)

Whenever the wife b1tches about the cost of gear, I just point to the nearest Coach purse, and remind her that she buys empty bags @ $300 a pop...

[pianoguyy]

I doubt there will be a lite version.  They tried the lite version of the HD500 with the 300,400 and that didn't last. The Firehawk is a HD500 lite but certainly not any big break in price point.  I think they will continue to support the different price points with appropriate gear, from the Spider line, through Amplifi and HD500 up to Helix.

And when they determine that it is ineffective to continue with the HD500 but still want the $500 customer --- 

making a Helix that has 1 input, 2 outputs, and not touch-sensitive makes more sense than trying to add on to the old stuff.

Build the top dog, and then remove features. It is a far easier than the reverse. And is a marketing strategy of numerous companies, especially the L6 parent company - good, better, best. 

 

 

Not that it really matters. Any HD505 or Helix JR is months away. They need to soak up Helix money before they announce something different. I mean, holy lollipop, how long has the public known about the Helix, but it still isn't even in people's homes yet. 

[pianoguyy]

You guys and those wife people. And then some even have the little replicas running around. 

 

I am so glad that I only have to worry about strippers taking my money and accountants telling me to get receipts. 

It makes life as a musician far easier. I never have to answer to anyone about going 500 miles for a job or 'please come home, we miss you'. 

 

 

 

 

***after tonight's episode, I am coming home for the first time in like 2 months. 

I will only be there for a few days before leaving again. 

[toonsms]

You guys and those wife people. And then some even have the little replicas running around.

 

I am so glad that I only have to worry about strippers taking my money and accountants telling me to get receipts.

It makes life as a musician far easier. I never have to answer to anyone about going 500 miles for a job or 'please come home, we miss you'.

'Replica's'. That is great! I can't wait to call them that when they get home.

[joel_brown]

Replica's - that's great.  I've been told to go "Multiply Myself" more than once.

[napynap]

Just want to confirm if this is the case.

It really depends on how you are using it. In my case, playing live local city and private gigs, my FBV MkII connected to a POD HD is physically much more flexible and safer from fan encounters, extreme weather, and stage antics than the Helix can handle. I also carry a backup POD HD and smaller FBV MkII Express all for a total cost less than a Helix. When they make a water proof (read, beer-proof) unit that can sit in 100+degree direct sunlight for 4+ hours, I'll get in line.

[JTSC777]

My HD500 into the effect return of my modded Roland Cube 80 XL sounds really really good and is a very small in and out quick rig.

 

I bought both used and modded the Cube to have an insert jack.

 

Every time I use them I make money.

 

Yesterday I gave three lessons,rehearsed and played a live gig all with those two tools and a couple of well setup guitars.

 

The Helix will have ro get a lot cheaper and work with my older Variax before I consider buying one.

 

For the "touch" and "feel" thing I have 6 nice tube amps old and new.

 

They sit in storage a lot though these days lol!

[clintmartin]

If you're a POD user and decide to buy a Helix, it probably will replace your POD in the sense that you'll probably use the Helix in the situations where you were previously using the POD. Since having the Helix, there hasn't really been an instance where I've found something that the HD500 can do that the Helix can't (although, right now, the Helix doesn't work as Workbench interface for the Variax - I'm sure that's only a matter of time). But Line 6 isn't discontinuing the POD HD500X or HD Pro X. They know as well as anyone that a good number of people aren't going to be wanting to drop $1500 on a piece of gear, and there's still a need for great gear at a lower price point.

The helix can't control a DT amp properly. That's something the HD500X can do.

[bartnettle1]

My greatest fear is my wife will sell  all my guitars for what I told her they cost! LOL

[SiCantwell]

The Helix has more amp models and probably a lot more DSP, but I'm not sure what makes it 3 times as good as the 500X. There are more outputs, so I guess it's more flexible.

I'm happy with the 500X and couldnt afford $1,500 anyway. I have a wife too!

[bartnettle1]

Yeah  it is well over $2k ihere I think $2400 which is 4 times $500 for my new HD500. which I love and use most days.

I would certainly like a Helix. It is too hard to justify. Perhaps one day. The aussie dollar is very slowly improving.

 

Logically a better investment purchase if I had the money would be a classic guitar. Like paintings they are!

[cruisinon2]

Logically a better investment purchase if I had the money would be a classic guitar. Like paintings they are!

Unfortunately, a lot of times all you're paying for is the look and the decal on the headstock. While I do own and play several big "name brand" guitars, and while they may hold their value, the build quality and playability out of the box are often suspect, even for an axe that costs you several thousand dollars.

 

If you should decide that you're going to spend any significant amount of money on a guitar, I'd encourage you to seek out a luthier who will build you something from the ground up, exactly the way you want it. Dollar for dollar, you will get a WHOLE LOT more instrument than the products that are routinely churned out from anybody's assembly line "Custom Shop". Often this means little more than having a couple of extra finishes to choose from...but at twice the price.

 

Let the flaming begin, lol...just my 2 cents.

[pianoguyy]

My greatest fear is my wife will sell  all my guitars for what I told her they cost! LOL

I think I've heard that somewhere before, lol. 

But you forgot the important part -- when I die. 

 

 

 

The Helix has more amp models and probably a lot more DSP, but I'm not sure what makes it 3 times as good as the 500X. There are more outputs, so I guess it's more flexible.

I'm happy with the 500X and couldnt afford $1,500 anyway. I have a wife too!

 

I don't know how much of the price is sound quality. But there is an awful lot more going on that would make the price more. Inputs, outputs, screen, pedals, 5 years of price increases. I would assume that it is worth it when you look at everything put together. 

But, not only do I have perfectly working gear that doesn't need replaced, most of the 'extras' that the Helix has is not needed by me. If I were to be tempted to upgrade my unit, I would rather wait for the Helix JR - something with 1 input and 2 stereo outputs. 

 

 

**and as far as the price is concerned --- any smart business would raise the profit margin after they read the comments of people saying "that price is totally worth it when compared to going out and paying the same price for one amp, let alone the dozens that a modeler gives." 

And no one even brings up how much a Neumann U87 Condenser Mic costs - but the HD500 can run two of them. That's $6k right there. I mean, $500 certainly seems like a bargain. 

[pianoguyy]

Let the flaming begin, lol...just my 2 cents.

 

 

I am not going to flame you. I just want to point out that my experience with luthiers is horrible. 

Guitar players who became luthiers to better their guitar building/modding, they do better than a just a standard luthier. I know it is a fine line between the two, but it really does make a difference. 

'Guitarist first' means they understand guitarist issues better than 'luthier first' who understands that if you put this piece of wood next to this piece of wood then you will get a harmonically precise vibrational effect. And they are always measuring proper angles and distances instead of using fingers and ears to make adjustments -- reminiscent of the guys here that adjust their EQ by their eyes instead of their ears. 

 

 

But, the other thing to take into consideration is price. 

A local basement workshop that is building one guitar is going to cost way more than a CS from a decent company. 

A decent "guitar builder" will often become a popular to place to go, which turns them into Guitar Brands --- someone like Carvin. They never became that huge factory production brand like Jackson did. But are far from a local shop. So you are really getting decent guitars at competitive prices. Which is far better than paying more from local Joe down the block. 

[cruisinon2]

'Guitarist first' means they understand guitarist issues better than 'luthier first' who understands that if you put this piece of wood next to this piece of wood then you will get a harmonically precise vibrational effect. And they are always measuring proper angles and distances instead of using fingers and ears to make adjustments -- reminiscent of the guys here that adjust their EQ by their eyes instead of their ears.

 

Well, one's individual experience is everything...and mine is just the opposite. I found a guy who makes his living building guitars, but is also a fine musician in his own right. And all any luthier need do in order to understand player's issues, is to shut up and listen...now whether or not they DO that, is another question entirely. Since most of the human race doesn't seem listen to anyone but themselves anymore, I'm sure most of these guys are no different. But once in a while you get lucky...though chances are, you will have to look around to find one.

 

It's like finding a really amazing tattoo artist...chances are it's not the guy "down the block", but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

[bartnettle1]

Oh yeah the joke I got off FB was 

When I die, I hope my wife doesn't sell my guitars for what I told her they cost. LOL

[bartnettle1]

I like bang for buck deals like the HD500 and most of my Studio gear.

Guitars included.

 

Of course Pro Studios invest in better quality name brands.

It will be interesting if the Helix catches on with Pro Studios. Most like when the rack comes out.

It does do an engineer out of a job having a modeler that does it all. Many feel the creative aspect is missing

but when time is money many have their quick solution for some clients and the Axe and Kemper have a foothold there.

 

The Helix puts the create back in as I cant stand all the menus and unreadable digital readouts.

 

I can see the Helix as fast as thought design approach could give back some sense of creativity.

 

And that is where I think Helix owners are as on the Helix forum there is little albeit a few minor bugs. 

[jar1zx]

When I'm dead I'm sure I will not worry about my guitars.

I would hope my wife doesn't sale them while I'm alive.

 

Then again I didn't give her a key to my shop or the code to my gun safe.

[jar1zx]

Btw think I seen sweet water giving a $50 discount on the hd500x today. 10% off.

Not a dumping price so maybe line 6 will keep it going as long as people keep buying.

 

Still a lot of business in the $500 price range, don't see why line 6 would give up on something they did so well at.

[AlexKenivel]

Who doesn't give their wife the code to the gun safe these days? What with all them zombie apocalypse talk these days, sheeat she better come out guns a blazing

[DarrellM5]

Helix wasn't intended as a HD500X replacement but as an entirely different product line.

 

That being said, it's definitely replacing mine.  I didn't intend to get rid of my HD500X when Helix arrived, but now that I've been playing it for a few days, I can't go back to the HD.

[pianoguyy]

Btw think I seen sweet water giving a $50 discount on the hd500x today. 10% off.

Not a dumping price so maybe line 6 will keep it going as long as people keep buying.

 

Still a lot of business in the $500 price range, don't see why line 6 would give up on something they did so well at.

 

 No, that is not a dumping price. It is a --- so many people are here checking out the Helix but not buying, if they are interested in L6 products, maybe we can entice them to buy the other stuff with a sale.