Best external expression pedal for use with Helix

[Crito]

I'm planning on buying a Helix as soon as the software editor/librarian is available. In the meantime, I've got a question:

 

What's the best external expression pedal to use with the Helix (I guess line6 stopped making the EX-1)? I'm looking for a reliable pedal with a smooth, reliable pot, and one that will be accurately calibrated by the Helix automatically.

 

I'm interested in using two external pedals, mainly to tweak delay level and delay feedback. I'm assuming that this can be done on the Helix (although I can't find a way to do it on my Spider amp or my old X3 Live)... has anyone done it?

 

Crito

[ColonelForbin]

Check out Mission Engineering. You going with rack or floorboard Helix? Mission has a toe switch version, but only works for the Helix rack. The regular Mission L6 ep1 works as exp pedal with any Line6 gear, Helix rack & floor, HD500, etc.

 

http://missionengineering.com/?product=ep1-l6

 

http://missionengineering.com/?product=sp1-l6h-line-6-helix

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EP1L6Bk

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SP1L6H

[BigRalphN]

I have the L6 EP1 in black. It is an outstanding pedal and works fantastic. Very well built and smooth.

[duncann]

Another one here with the EP1-L6. Absolutely nothing wrong with it when used with Helix.

[PeterHamm]

I have used...

Old Korg EXP2 (using audio output, not exp jack)

Vox V850 (250K volume pedal)

EB VP Jr. (also 250K volume pedal)

and Mission EP1-l6. All work great. I like different color/style pedals so they are easier to keep straight for the different functions I use them for, rather than all the same.

[Crito]

Thanks to all for the tips!

 

As for my other question: has anyone tried to control delay mix and/or delay feedback with expression pedals on the Helix? Was it easy to program?

[PeterHamm]

Thanks to all for the tips!

 

As for my other question: has anyone tried to control delay mix and/or delay feedback with expression pedals on the Helix? Was it easy to program?

 

I have delay mix as one of the parameters of my EXP 1 that goes from clean amp to dirty on every single patch. Works great.

[Crito]

PeterHamm: I'm not sure I know what you mean... As I understand your post, you're controlling several parameters with one pedal at the same time, including drive/distortion and delay? Do you mean as you push the pedal down the signal gets both dirtier and the delayed signal gets louder (relative to the undelayed signal)?

[jasdadgad]

Thanks to all for the tips!

 

As for my other question: has anyone tried to control delay mix and/or delay feedback with expression pedals on the Helix? Was it easy to program?

 

Very, very easy (I'm an old guy and don't read manuals).

 

1.  You hold down the physical button beneath the parameter you want to control with the pedal - in your example, delay feedback.

2.  In the lower right-hand corner of the screen, a prompt comes up that says "Learn Controller".

3.  Press the physical button beneath the "Learn Controller" prompt.

4.  Now press the expression pedal.

 

Couldn't be easier.

 

For my uses, being able to (easily) assign any parameter to the expression pedal is about the best feature of the Helix.

[Digital_Igloo]

Mission's also working on a new Helix-branded expression pedal with a toe switch for use with Helix Rack. Great guys over there.

[Crito]

Thanks jasdadgad. That's about as easy as it comes.

 

Very, very easy (I'm an old guy and don't read manuals).

 

1.  You hold down the physical button beneath the parameter you want to control with the pedal - in your example, delay feedback.

2.  In the lower right-hand corner of the screen, a prompt comes up that says "Learn Controller".

3.  Press the physical button beneath the "Learn Controller" prompt.

4.  Now press the expression pedal.

 

Couldn't be easier.

 

For my uses, being able to (easily) assign any parameter to the expression pedal is about the best feature of the Helix.

 

Thanks, that sounds about as easy as it can be.

[PeterHamm]

PeterHamm: I'm not sure I know what you mean... As I understand your post, you're controlling several parameters with one pedal at the same time, including drive/distortion and delay? Do you mean as you push the pedal down the signal gets both dirtier and the delayed signal gets louder (relative to the undelayed signal)?

 

Actually I push the pedal down and the sound gets dirtier, all the tone parameters shift somewhat, and the delayed signal gets a teeny bit SOFTER. I find that "present" delays work better with cleaner sounds. I normally go from somewhere around 45% mix clean to about 30% distorted.

[Crito]

Actually I push the pedal down and the sound gets dirtier, all the tone parameters shift somewhat, and the delayed signal gets a teeny bit SOFTER. I find that "present" delays work better with cleaner sounds. I normally go from somewhere around 45% mix clean to about 30% distorted.

Interesting! So how do you program the Helix to decrease a parameter value when the pedal is (presumably) outputting increased values?

[PeterHamm]

Interesting! So how do you program the Helix to decrease a parameter value when the pedal is (presumably) outputting increased values?

 

you can set any parameter to either go up or down with a pedal. I will probably post a patch or two in the next few weeks when I finally get normal guy time to do stuff.

 

For instance, I have EXP 1 always changing states between my clean and dirty sounds on my amp. So heel down might have a very low number for preamp, moderate numbers for bass, mid, treble, and presence and output... then... when I go to toe down, the preamp gain increases, bass goes (way) down, mid goes up, treble depends on the amp, presence and output normally go down. I just program it one parameter at a time and then adjust after I'm finished (which is easier, believe it or not, on the HD 500 than it is on the helix, but it's not bad). At the same time, when I'm clean my delay is more present than when I'm dirty. 

 

BUT... I may be changing my workflow, because now I can use a footswitch to go between two different amp states. That is huge for me and might free up that EXP 1 for something else.

[Crito]

you can set any parameter to either go up or down with a pedal. I will probably post a patch or two in the next few weeks when I finally get normal guy time to do stuff.

 

For instance, I have EXP 1 always changing states between my clean and dirty sounds on my amp. So heel down might have a very low number for preamp, moderate numbers for bass, mid, treble, and presence and output... then... when I go to toe down, the preamp gain increases, bass goes (way) down, mid goes up, treble depends on the amp, presence and output normally go down. I just program it one parameter at a time and then adjust after I'm finished (which is easier, believe it or not, on the HD 500 than it is on the helix, but it's not bad). At the same time, when I'm clean my delay is more present than when I'm dirty. 

 

BUT... I may be changing my workflow, because now I can use a footswitch to go between two different amp states. That is huge for me and might free up that EXP 1 for something else

 

Thanks PeterHamm! I'm beginning to get it. To figure out the mechanics of how you did that, I downloaded the manual and read the section on Controllers. (It's not the worst manual I ever tried to make sense of. Seem to have actually been written by a guitarist). Looks like I'll be taking a big leap from the old X3 Live to the Helix! Can't wait to get one.

[alexfong]

I have a Mission Engineering EP-1 too after reading that others are using it fine, I wanted to share my odd issue with it. Connected to the Helix, I have found that the heel position is correctly set at zero but it reaches 100 at midway and then back to zero at full toe position.

 

Anyone seen this issue or is it me? I have tried the pedal with my HD500x and it works well as expected. I have also changed the cable a few times without resolution. I wishing the Helix as a manual expression pedal calibration setting.

 

Any ideas?

[Sam14]

I have a Mission Engineering EP-1 too after reading that others are using it fine, I wanted to share my odd issue with it. Connected to the Helix, I have found that the heel position is correctly set at zero but it reaches 100 at midway and then back to zero at full toe position.

 

Anyone seen this issue or is it me? I have tried the pedal with my HD500x and it works well as expected. I have also changed the cable a few times without resolution. I wishing the Helix as a manual expression pedal calibration setting.

 

Any ideas?

Sorry to bump this up but I'm currently having this exact issue when connecting my Earnie Ball volume pedal, it goes from 0 to 100 then just before the pedal is all the way up it goes to 0 on the helix again. I have tried reversing the TRS cable connections as well but same issue. 

[PeterHamm]

Sorry to bump this up but I'm currently having this exact issue when connecting my Earnie Ball volume pedal, it goes from 0 to 100 then just before the pedal is all the way up it goes to 0 on the helix again. I have tried reversing the TRS cable connections as well but same issue. 

First, get rid of the TRS cable. TRS-based EXPs aren't the way it works.

 

Second, update firmware, I believe this problem may go away. Which EB VP? what impedance?

[Sam14]

First, get rid of the TRS cable. TRS-based EXPs aren't the way it works.

 

Second, update firmware, I believe this problem may go away. Which EB VP? what impedance?

 

Its an Ernie Ball VPJR 250k, for passive electronics. It's got 3 jacks: in, out and tuner. I've been using one of those 2 mono to 1 stereo cables (insert cable?) which I assumed was TRS but im guessing im wrong haha. 

[PeterHamm]

Its an Ernie Ball VPJR 250k, for passive electronics. It's got 3 jacks: in, out and tuner. I've been using one of those 2 mono to 1 stereo cables (insert cable?) which I assumed was TRS but im guessing im wrong haha. 

Yes, that's the good news.

 

All you need to do is connect a normal TS cable (normal guitar cord) from the EXP jack on Helix to the OUTPUT of your EB VP Jr. 

 

Works like a charm.

 

You're welcome.

[Sam14]

Yes, that's the good news.

 

All you need to do is connect a normal TS cable (normal guitar cord) from the EXP jack on Helix to the OUTPUT of your EB VP Jr. 

 

Works like a charm.

 

You're welcome.

Bam! that easy, thanks heaps mate.

[BINGEWOOD]

What would be the optimum circuit that Helix is designed for seeing attached to the EXP jacks? 

[Joepeggio]

What would be the optimum circuit that Helix is designed for seeing attached to the EXP jacks?

 

Good question. I believe I read somewhere on here a while back Helix is looking for a 10k pot. Not sure if linear or log taper.

 

I hope we hear from an expert.

[a2dconverterguy]

Here's the typical circuit.... Larger pot values will work as well....

 

 

I hope this helps

 

Seeya

 

Joe

[BINGEWOOD]

Thanks!  Do you know if larger values will change the operation and/or if there is a value above which you lose a part of the sweep?

[plarkin]

In case anyone is wondering, the new Mission Engineering Helix Rack pedal will work with the Helix floor processor, but some of the pedal's capabilities will not be used. Specifically, the pedal has two outputs and a toe switch that work with the rack version.  With the floor version, just use the output jack closer to the front of the pedal with a standard 1/4" mono cable. Also, I verified that my Ernie Ball VP Jr. works fine with the Helix as an expression pedal.

[glideman]

I'm hoping the Mission EP1-L6 I just ordered works.

 

I have a Mission EP1-Kemper and a Boss FV-500H, and both of those have the 0 to 100 to 0 problem.

Doesn't matter if it's a TS or a TRS cable, they both do it.  If I set the min vol pot on the FV-500H to max,

then the pedal makes the helix volume go from 100 to 0 (inverse action) from heel to toe.  TOTALLY screwed up!!!

 

If this L6 Mission pedal doesn't work, then there's a problem with my Helix...  *crosses fingers*

I'll know next Tuesday when the new pedal gets here!

 

Anyone else have this problem with these particular pedals?

[ColonelForbin]

My 'b-stock' Mission L6EP1 showed up today! Not sure where the flaws are, looks perfect! Also picked up a pair of the pedalboard mounting risers! Have two of the EP1's now, pretty psyched to get these mounted on little board (next to Helix, too damn heavy to put it all on one giant sized board..)

 

For starting, when I get past using Helix by itself, and want to expand into the exp pedal / wireless + Helix thing, going to try a relatively simple rig to start with:

 

onboard exp1 = wah only. toe switch will toggle wah on/off, i would imagine this is as close to 'regular' wah type action I am going to get.

 

exterior exp2 = volume pedal

 

exterior exp3= tweak? more / less? morph? not sure yet. Might just assign it to mix parameters, maybe even just for a few effects, until  I get a better sense of how to use it to 'morph' between values.. sort of like semi-wet, semi-dry. Or some set in between alot wet and not as much wet.

 

Open to ideas and suggestions!! :)

 

Cheers!

[jaminjimlp]

From:

http://missionengineering.com/

 Wiring.
Most potentiometers have three connectors; Clockwise, Counter-clockwise, and Wiper. Amazingly, there are multiple different ways these can be wired, all achieving largely the same result, which means yet more variations for expression pedals. The most common expression pedal wiring is to connect the pot to a 1/4″ stereo (TRS) instrument jack as follows:

CW —— Sleeve
Wiper — Tip
CCW —– Ring

An alternative is with the tip and the ring reversed as follows:

CW —— Sleeve
Wiper — Ring
CCW —– Tip

Yet a third way is as follows:

CW —— Sleeve
Wiper — Tip
CCW —– Tip

 

In this last one, the wiper and CCW are bonded together and connected to the tip and the ring is unused. This requires the use of a mono (TS) cable such as a regular guitar cable, in place of the stereo (TRS) cable used in the other two. These three are the most common that we see in expression pedals, but we keep finding more. Sometimes a dual gang potentiometer is wired in parallel to create a single pot with half the resistance. For example you may see a dual 20K Ohm potentiometer bridged into a single 10K. In this case the pedal will function the same as if it were a native 10K Ohm single pot.

.....................................

 

OK so now we know we can do this:

 

This also alleviated the backwards operation problem and the 0 - 100 - 0 problem...

 

The third way is the Line 6 way. (after some google searches I found this out)

 

which means after the conversion you don't need to use TRS cables anymore you can use TS cables. Also now with either the 12k ohm pot in the one and the 10k ohm pot in the other I get full 0% to 100% on the Helix control.

here is what I did to make mine compatible so there would be no need for re configuring. the Potenteiometer on this 1 is 10k

Here is before

here is after... so just moving 1 wire (the green/ring) and put it together with the (red/Tip) and the (black/sleeve) stays the same.

also I jumped out the black on the side pot that is for changing the "throw" of it to disable it and not doing it made it have issues when you adjusted it it would not go back to full throw. (If that makes any scents to you)

My other one

here is after... so just moving 1 wire (the green/ring) and put it together with the (red/Tip) and the (black/sleeve) stays the same.

 

this model had a duel 24k pot and I soldered each connection 1,2 and 3 to 1,2 and 3 (you see it better in the picture above) making it a single 12k pot

 

This can be done with a soldering iron with no extra solder. just heat up the green wire pull it off and put it on with the red and heat it up to connect it. 

 

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

I am re-posting this from another thread on the same thing

[PeterHamm]

My 'b-stock' Mission L6EP1 showed up today! Not sure where the flaws are, looks perfect! Also picked up a pair of the pedalboard mounting risers! Have two of the EP1's now, pretty psyched to get these mounted on little board (next to Helix, too damn heavy to put it all on one giant sized board..)

 

For starting, when I get past using Helix by itself, and want to expand into the exp pedal / wireless + Helix thing, going to try a relatively simple rig to start with:

 

onboard exp1 = wah only. toe switch will toggle wah on/off, i would imagine this is as close to 'regular' wah type action I am going to get.

 

exterior exp2 = volume pedal

 

exterior exp3= tweak? more / less? morph? not sure yet. Might just assign it to mix parameters, maybe even just for a few effects, until  I get a better sense of how to use it to 'morph' between values.. sort of like semi-wet, semi-dry. Or some set in between alot wet and not as much wet.

 

Open to ideas and suggestions!! :)

 

Cheers!

 

Good solution.

 

If you want to "add" an EXP, there are two ways to do it. One. Make the EXP 1 a volume pedal, set it so that when you hit the toe switch it turns off the Volume pedal and turns on the Wah... there... two in one... somebody else here discovered that neat idea.

 

OR... you could very easily use a VP with an insert loop on the Helix, just go out into the VP and back in. IT's buffered at that point, so it's not gonna suck tone.

 

But your solution ain't bad.

[SimpleSi]

From:

http://missionengineering.com/

Wiring.

Most potentiometers have three connectors; Clockwise, Counter-clockwise, and Wiper. Amazingly, there are multiple different ways these can be wired, all achieving largely the same result, which means yet more variations for expression pedals. The most common expression pedal wiring is to connect the pot to a 1/4″ stereo (TRS) instrument jack as follows:

CW —— Sleeve

Wiper — Tip

CCW —– Ring

An alternative is with the tip and the ring reversed as follows:

CW —— Sleeve

Wiper — Ring

CCW —– Tip

Yet a third way is as follows:

CW —— Sleeve

Wiper — Tip

CCW —– Tip

In this last one, the wiper and CCW are bonded together and connected to the tip and the ring is unused. This requires the use of a mono (TS) cable such as a regular guitar cable, in place of the stereo (TRS) cable used in the other two. These three are the most common that we see in expression pedals, but we keep finding more. Sometimes a dual gang potentiometer is wired in parallel to create a single pot with half the resistance. For example you may see a dual 20K Ohm potentiometer bridged into a single 10K. In this case the pedal will function the same as if it were a native 10K Ohm single pot.

.....................................

OK so now we know we can do this:

This also alleviated the backwards operation problem and the 0 - 100 - 0 problem...

The third way is the Line 6 way. (after some google searches I found this out)

which means after the conversion you don't need to use TRS cables anymore you can use TS cables. Also now with either the 12k ohm pot in the one and the 10k ohm pot in the other I get full 0% to 100% on the Helix control.

here is what I did to make mine compatible so there would be no need for re configuring. the Potenteiometer on this 1 is 10k

Here is before

here is after... so just moving 1 wire (the green/ring) and put it together with the (red/Tip) and the (black/sleeve) stays the same.

also I jumped out the black on the side pot that is for changing the "throw" of it to disable it and not doing it made it have issues when you adjusted it it would not go back to full throw. (If that makes any scents to you)

My other one

here is after... so just moving 1 wire (the green/ring) and put it together with the (red/Tip) and the (black/sleeve) stays the same.

this model had a duel 24k pot and I soldered each connection 1,2 and 3 to 1,2 and 3 (you see it better in the picture above) making it a single 12k pot

This can be done with a soldering iron with no extra solder. just heat up the green wire pull it off and put it on with the red and heat it up to connect it.

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I am re-posting this from another thread on the same thing

I've tried this with my EP1-KP.. Bridging the green and red does nothing. The helix won't recognize it at all. Still not wanting to fork out $150 just for a mono linear potentiometer in a new enclosure.... Mission won't tell me how to modify it as it's some contract bulls..t

[jaminjimlp]

I've tried this with my EP1-KP.. Bridging the green and red does nothing. The helix won't recognize it at all. Still not wanting to fork out $150 just for a mono linear potentiometer in a new enclosure.... Mission won't tell me how to modify it as it's some contract bulls..t

 

OK you have to move the green to the red you cannot just put a wire across and bridge them it doesn't work that way you have to take your green off of its connection and put it on the red. try that and see if it will work and this must be done on the Jack side not on the pot. leave the pot connected the way it is. make sure it is a 10 or 12k pot. The green and the red must be on the tip connection of the Jack. You only need a regular instrument cable you don't need a TRS cable....

 

If you still can't figure it out take it a few pictures of your pedal like I did so that I can see what is going on with your situation try to give me a good shot of the back of the potentiometer so I can see the ohm rating on it and also the designation Of 1,2,3 connections.

[Rewolf48]

Just looked up prices in the UK for Mission Engineering EP1-L6.   :blink:

 

Are we really talking £120 ($170 US) for a pedal with a simple Pot in it?

[duncann]

In the US here, it goes for $130. It is built tank-like though.

[jaminjimlp]

Really you could take an old crybaby or Vox waH and just rewire it and it would work the same.

 

Here is one new:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Vox/V845-Classic-Wah-Wah-Guitar-Effects-Pedal.gc

 

Most wah wahs have a 100k or a 250K potentiometer, most expression pedal seem to have something around 10k to 25K, after doing a little research there is some folks that said they have used 250 K pot and rewired a Wawa pedal to work as an expression pedal and it worked fine or you can just buy a new potentiometer (thank sure it is linear and not audio taper or logarithmic) for an expression pedal and put it in if you have to but I would try to go ahead and wire it up first according to the way that I have explained above.

 

Remember you don't have to worry about getting tip ring sleeve input jacks just tip sleeve is all you need and is what is already on a Wawa pedal

 

 

Just looked up prices in the UK for Mission Engineering EP1-L6. :blink:

 

Are we really talking £120 ($170 US) for a pedal with a simple Pot in it?

[sammycraig]

 

For starting, when I get past using Helix by itself, and want to expand into the exp pedal / wireless + Helix thing, going to try a relatively simple rig to start with:

 

onboard exp1 = wah only. toe switch will toggle wah on/off, i would imagine this is as close to 'regular' wah type action I am going to get.

 

exterior exp2 = volume pedal

 

exterior exp3= tweak? more / less? morph? not sure yet. Might just assign it to mix parameters, maybe even just for a few effects, until  I get a better sense of how to use it to 'morph' between values.. sort of like semi-wet, semi-dry. Or some set in between alot wet and not as much wet.

 

Open to ideas and suggestions!! :)

 

Cheers!

 

What I do is set up both a volume and a wah in my signal chain, assign them both to the expression pedal built in and use the toe switch to switch between wah and volume. So when I click it my wah activates (with the volume set all the way up) and when I click it again I go back to normal volume control. This works great for me because i never use both the volume pedal and the wah pedal at the same time. Then Im free to only add one expression pedal to the helix since I'm maximizing the built in expression. Although I might add another expression pedal later so that I can control both gain settings and and delay settings live (while still keeping full volume and wah control). 

[fabbr]

Can I use the Mission Engeneering SP1 with the Helix Floorfloor Board (not the Rack)? 

[JasonTav]

to keep this thread alive :)

 

I can confirm that the Dunlop Volume X (DVP3) pedal works with a Helix.

 

You need:

A standard instrument lead (NOT TRS)

To switch the blue switch inside the pedal (this reverses the toe up/down on the pedal)

Invert the EXP 2 pedal in global settings on the helix

 

If you don't switch the switch inside, the pedal exhibits the 0-100-0 behaviour reported by others when using a standard instrument cable.

 

hope this helps someone......

[jmp22684]

Been using this daily for a long time. She's stood up to a lot and never had a problem. Gigs every weekend, load in out, all I do all day. She's been worked hard and put away wet and always ready for another rough ride.

 

Adjustable torque too.

 

Used with hd500 and helix.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FV500L

[lungho]

I picked up broken CryBaby on FleaBay and replaced the 100k pot with a 10k pot.  I then rewired it and boom, instant expression pedal that's built like a tank and uses a standard patch cable.  If anyone is interested, I used this thread as a guide.