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Midi Clock Sync!

autay622

By autay622,
in Helix

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autay622 Rookie

autay622

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How is it possible that this feature is not part of the Helix? With all of the capabilities. I need to sync my timing effects up with Ableton.  Please fix this in a firmware update soon, or I will have to return/sell!

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HonestOpinion Grand Master

HonestOpinion

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How is it possible that this feature is not part of the Helix? With all of the capabilities. I need to sync my timing effects up with Ableton.  Please fix this in a firmware update soon, or I will have to return/sell!

 

I think it would be great to have sync included in the Helix but in case you do find it critical now I believe the Helix Rack does already have this capability in case you wanted to swap out the floor unit.  Assuming it is working (I own the standard floor pedal version), this feature is described in the Helix Rack manual as well as having a WordClock input on the Rack model.

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phil_m Grand Master

phil_m

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Wordclock isn't the same thing as MIDI clock sync. The rack does have wordclock- that's for syncing the sample rates of different digital devices. It doesn't have anything to do with tempo or MIDI clock. Neither the floor or rack unit have MIDI clock sync yet.

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HonestOpinion Grand Master

HonestOpinion

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I don't know much about WordClock, but according to this thread, it is not the same as midi clock.

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/16351-midi-clock-sync-firmware-update/

 

 

Wordclock isn't the same thing as MIDI clock sync. The rack does have wordclock- that's for syncing the sample rates of different digital devices. It doesn't have anything to do with tempo or MIDI clock. Neither the floor or rack unit have MIDI clock sync yet.

 

Important clarification, thanks, they are not the same thing! There can be some dependencies between the two as this article discusses.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/word-clock-midi-interfaces/

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sb77 Contributor

sb77

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Wordclock isn't the same thing as MIDI clock sync. The rack does have wordclock- that's for syncing the sample rates of different digital devices. It doesn't have anything to do with tempo or MIDI clock. Neither the floor or rack unit have MIDI clock sync yet.

"or or rack unit have MIDI clock sync yet."

 

So that rather implies it is going to get it???! Any degree of certainty on this? This, to date, has stopped me buying Helix.

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Jakeallen Explorer

Jakeallen

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Ditto! MIDI clock sync is really the only thing keeping this from being a true "command center."  Especially in Live Looping or any performance situation depending on integration with BeatBuddy or other external rhythmic or tempo-sync'd devices.   PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE address through Firmware if at all possible.  Is it even possible?  

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HonestOpinion Grand Master

HonestOpinion

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Never buy gear for what you hope it'll do in the future.

That is so 1980's. I say only buy gear for what it will do in the future. This is the new millennium. I love a good surprise. If it is a relatively newly released and expensive modeling/effect device with no plans for improvement I am not even interested. Can't wait until the learning software starts coming out on these things and actually customizes itself to your playing style. :P

 

Btw, I wouldn't be surprised if MIDI clock sync makes it into the Helix at some point although perhaps not soon enough for some users. You are definitely right in one respect though, and for some people perhaps the most important one. We know new features are coming to the Helix but not what they will be. What is coming next is a spin of the roulette wheel. If someone has a must-have feature then they are taking a huge gamble that it will be on the short list or for that matter any list to make it into the device. If they have to have MIDI clock sync now or as a sure thing, they are better off buying another device that already has it.

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duncann Grand Master

duncann

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Is this for real? I just spent 1500 on a machine that can't sync tempo to ableton live? Seems like it would be very easy to do, and there are lots of people complaining. I'm on the verge of returning it. Hurry up line 6!

 

If all you want to do is sync with a DAW, sending two snapshot changes from the DAW seems to work. The first snapshot should be something other than what you want, the second is the one you want. Also, not sure if it's necessary, but I have the global setting, "Tempo Select" set to Per Snapshot. As an alternative, sending a preset change from the DAW might also work.

 

We know new features are coming to the Helix but not what they will be.

This isn't entirely true. Digital Igloo became very uncharacteristically very specific recently:

 

Aside from reamping duties, I'll route DAW tracks—namely synths or entire BG vocal busses—through Helix distortions and delays all the time. I used to use step up/step down, DI, and impedance matching boxes before to hook up my real stomps, and now I don't have to. :)

 

As for reverbs, I'll use Particle Verb and Octo Verb on auxes, but for more realistic rooms and ambience, I have Lexicon, UA, and Eventide plugins (plus Logic's Space Designer). More Helix reverbs are coming... eventually.

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HonestOpinion Grand Master

HonestOpinion

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...

 

This isn't entirely true. Digital Igloo became very uncharacteristically very specific recently:

DI has been uncharacteristically specific of late (thanks DI) but even those tidbits are few and far between. I think most people have anticipated for quite a while that updated reverbs would come to the Helix at some point as the current versions were not designed for the HX technology and were ported from the HD effects. It is admittedly very reassuring to hear DI announce that they are either being worked on are in the plans. There are some bread crumbs dropped now and then but for the most part new firmware releases are comprised almost entirely of features that have not been announced. Even on the rare occasion when specifics are announced ahead of time the release date is usually either not announced or rather vague. So as I said, if you need a feature now, chances are they are not going to mention the exact one you are looking for unless you get lucky. Even if they do you usually cannot be certain as to when it will arrive. Even when it does arrive it may have bugs that need to be resolved. So if your timetable is right now for a feature you simply must have, buy a device that already has it. That is what I have observed so far and that is how I adjust any expectations. For example, it has been announced that there is more to come in 2017 but for the most part neither the specifics nor even what 'season' the delivery will occur in have been announced (at least I have not seen it).

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tonymuka3 Rookie

tonymuka3

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If all you want to do is sync with a DAW, sending two snapshot changes from the DAW seems to work. The first snapshot should be something other than what you want, the second is the one you want. Also, not sure if it's necessary, but I have the global setting, "Tempo Select" set to Per Snapshot. As an alternative, sending a preset change from the DAW might also work.

 

You can also setup the DAW to send quarter note high values directly to the tap pedal with CC 64.  It's more work, but it's a workaround... Either way saving tempo with snapshots, presets, or in your DAW, it's more work than the Helix being able to simply listen for midi clock sync.  The advantage of setting the tempos on the DAW side is that when the song tempos get changed, there is only one place to setup changes.

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duncann Grand Master

duncann

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You can also setup the DAW to send quarter note high values directly to the tap pedal with CC 64.  It's more work, but it's a workaround... Either way saving tempo with snapshots, presets, or in your DAW, it's more work than the Helix being able to simply listen for midi clock sync.  The advantage of setting the tempos on the DAW side is that when the song tempos get changed, there is only one place to setup changes.

 

I haven't looked recently, but did they fix the non-functioning CC64? I remember it being broken with either 2.10.0 or the version before that.

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tonymuka3 Rookie

tonymuka3

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I haven't looked recently, but did they fix the non-functioning CC64? I remember it being broken with either 2.10.0 or the version before that.

 

i tested it yesterday on 2.11.0 and it worked from midiox. 

 

edit: and maybe it's the developer in me, but i hope the reason it was broken is that they were working on something midi tempo related that they aren't talking about :)

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tonymuka3 Rookie

tonymuka3

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No, MIDI tap tempo (CC64) isn't working reliably here using the latest firmware. See also here: 

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/19801-midi-over-usb-tap-tempo/

 

 

I get the same unreliability as soundog with 2.11.0.

 

Then i stand corrected.  It appeared to work in an isolated test of changing the tempo a few times repeatedly.  Thanks for the link to the other thread.

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HonestOpinion Grand Master

HonestOpinion

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Never buy gear for what you hope it'll do in the future.

+1, from the 1950's 60's, 70's and 80's :D

LOL, so you're saying I should have said "That is so 1950's, 60's, 70's, and 80's". You are correct sir, If you buy gear from any of these eras you should not sit around waiting for a software update. We are basically all on the same page here, most everybody enjoys a new update chock full o' new features they have been hoping/advocating for(barring those who run into upgrade issues). Anyone who doesn't is welcome to cling to their principles and stay with the very first firmware version 'cos by golly they didn't buy the Helix expecting any updates. MIDI clock sync on a high end modeler is a perfectly reasonable expectation/request but if it is something you absolutely must have you are definitely taking your chances with a device that will probably but may never get it.

 

Didn't mean to start a skirmish and cause people to take sides here. I bought the Helix with high hopes as to what it would evolve into and that gamble, at least as it regards the feature set has been richly rewarded. I would just caution people, which is what I think zooey was trying to do, against buying a Helix for a specific wish-list item that may never materialize. I am just saying the situation surrounding firmware updates and what some people view as critical features often seems to me to be a bit more nuanced than a one-liner ("Never buy gear for what you hope it'll do in the future.") even if it has become somewhat accepted as conventional wisdom. Who says we need to be conventional? We're musicians dammit! ;)

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zooey Veteran

zooey

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Of course it's awesome that new firmware comes out with new toys!

 

All I meant was that if some feature is a drop-dead must-have, do the research and shop for it. Don't get a box without it, hoping that'll change, especially if what really matters to you is the near term or right now.

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tonymuka3 Rookie

tonymuka3

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I realize i'm a noob here and don't mean any disrespect.   I agree, you shouldn't buy something you need today lacking a feature hoped for in the future (no matter how simiple/basic). The idealist in me would like to think of the Helix as a hardware platform for an evolving software feature set, but there are no guarantees of future updates/upgrades, so i hope people keep buying them to motivate line6 to continue to invest in the platform!

 

I might have known the midi sync feature didn't exist had I done more forum research ahead of trying to use it.  I DID read the manual which didn't mention it, but did mention all sorts of other midi features (I thought "global tempo" meant sync) which is why i assumed midi tempo sync would be a baseline feature, but of course, i don't have a ton of midi experience. (I did build an arduino based midi tempo sync box that converts to analog tap for my nova delay and tap-a-whirl!)

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soundog Veteran

soundog

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Those of us who sold off our POD 500s to get the much, much, much, new and improved Helix sometimes scratch our heads, wondering "my old POD had MIDI sync, and Helix doesn't. That's f'cked!" But I don't think the 500 had MIDI sync until after a few firmware upgrades. So, I'm still hopeful the Helix will get MIDI sync, one fine day.

 

It just seems like one of those meant-to-be things.

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