Hammero Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I have been using Axe Fx for 7 years and just converted to Helix. My question is if anybody of you know if Line6 will continue their work on the amp simulation or do they consider it "done"? I hope they think a little like Fractal Audio are and constantly improving the amp simulation. I should mention that I don't use the stock cabs and IR's. The Helix sounds really good but I'm just curious about how they think. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirtualGuitars Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I don't think Line 6 will ever be done! They just announced v2.50 yesterday and have added a bunch of new effects and some amps. Here is a link to the post with all of the details. Enjoy!http://line6.com/support/topic/18284-latest-helix-firmware-250—coming-soon/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammero Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 Yes, I saw that one and looking forward to the. But I would like to hear how they think about the amp sims. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Historically Line 6 provides periodic firmware updates to their products but not as frequently as Fractal. There are more frequent updates early in the lifecycle and less frequent updates later on as the next generation of products receives more development attention. As far as Helix goes I expect updates and improvements to continue for several years now. This should include additional amp sims; some have already been promised for the next (post-v2.50) update. Line 6 has just made a huge investment in developing a common software architecture for the full line of Helix products. There are now several hardware versions of Helix (Floor, Rack/Control, LT) well as the new HXFX product. All share a common HX Edit program and alll except HXFX at the moment are compatible with the Helix Native plugin. To illustrate the power of the common architecture, HXFX, being a subset of Helix, could relatively easily now be integrated into Helix Native. Not saying it will be but it seems like a no-brainer to me in terms of generating additional revenues for relatively little development effort. This is a platform and suite of products built for the long term (in the context of electronic devices). Personally I expect it will be many years before Line 6 produces a successor to this suite. Meantime I expect that all Helix products will continue to be improved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammero Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 Very informative answer. Highly appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigGT Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 It's a good point though, has the modelling process evolved so that the newer amps are modelled better? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I don't believe the modeling process itself has changed since the introduction of Helix. The newer amps use the same modeling afaik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I always buy the next best thing, only to find it wasn't in about 2 or 3 years... ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfet Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I would not expect them to change the amp sim, at least not more than once. They would have the same problem as Fractal: When you change an existing model or the underlaying simulation for all models, what will happen to those users that used it in their patches? They are either forced to live with the new sound (that they may like less) or you would need to store every amp model for every firmware version, which seems very unpractical. Line6 will definitely add more amps, cabs etc. and they may add some tweaks to the sim like additional parameters and options, but I doubt they would change anything major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glombi_72 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I hope that, oposite to Fractal, L6 will issue more updates regarding new or improved functinal features and bugs instead of changing the sound over and over, ignoring user wishes consequently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I hope that, oposite to Fractal, L6 will issue more updates regarding new or improved functinal features and bugs instead of changing the sound over and over, ignoring user wishes consequently... I know exactly what you mean and although I am never happy to have to modify my existing presets for "subjective" improvements in sound I would just as soon take the hit if it is an improvement that is substantial or required to fix a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammero Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 I have never had any problems with the updates on the amp sims from Fractal, but I can see why it have been little difficult for some. But at the end of the day,the final results have always been for the better. But it have been interesting to hear from L6 how they see it. My opinion is that the amp sims isn't "done". Not in the Helix not at Fractal. I guess some probably disagree with me there. 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0stenning Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 If there's a possibility to actually significantly improve the core component modelling algorithms but that comes with added DSP cost they could maybe do what some amp sim plugin vendors do - and add a "Ultra mode" switch so one can opt in of the "Ultra" mode - knowing that maybe some patches won't work any more due to too complex a preset. Maybe such an ultra mode could add advanced speaker modelling for cone breakup etc etc.. dunno. And then - if the ultra mode proves very popular - it could lead to a second-generation HELIX line with more powerful DSP so where *all* existing presets get enough DSP overhead to work again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Line 6 hit this one outta the park with Helix, and it will ride the high waves for a while until (pick yer poison here) Fractal releases version 3 of the Axe FX with 4 Sharq Processors and yada yada yada. Line 6 knows this as does every maker of dream guitar processors, and so the competition and new boxes coming is always a good thing for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinDorr Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Regarding amp model improvements, I have only seen a few minor corrections when a model bug was found in the HD series of FW updates. If Line 6 really believed an amp model should be improved (e.g., they conclude the amp they modeled was not a typical or good one) they seem to release a new model with a new name and leave the older one in place to protect their user’s time investment and possible preferences. Seems like an excellent and user friendly approach to me. I think I remember at least one case were an HD model was fixed and the FW update either auto-corrected user tones using the model or described how to change parameters so that the tone was not significantly changed by the fix. Obviously there are limits and it’s always a trade-off between advantages to provide a fix and disadvantages of making some users change a tone they probably invested significant time on (and may want to keep). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brain-donor Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Helix takes a different approach than fractal as far as amps and so this question kinda doesn't make sense. Helix does point to point modeling of the amp, component to component so that the input going from one part of the amp to the next responds the same way that it does in the real amp. There is no reason to change an existing amp unless there is a bug in one of the components. Getting a particular sound out of a Helix amp should require the same talent that it takes to get that particular sound out of the real amp on which it was modeled. Fractal takes a different approach so if they don't get the end result correct I suppose the solution is to change that end result in an update so that it's closer to the particular sound they were going for in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexKenivel Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 If had been said many times in the big TGP Helix thread that The engineers perform undisclosed "under the hood improvements" in updates. Plenty of users have reported differences, especially in the Ac30 model 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willjrock Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Plenty of users have also incorrectly reported improvement, and plenty of others have reported none at all. Im not saying the one reporting improvement are wrong, but It will be a reality when its something that can be proven. Until that time there is no audible difference. "under the hood improvements" could literally mean anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Until that time there is no audible difference. "under the hood improvements" could literally mean anything. Example; That might include code removals or additions for future add-ons that have not been added yet. We would not see it as it wouldn't affect Helix now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRMark Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Bit sidetracked, Just before Helix was announced, small, but one of the things that put me off a Fractal purchase, trying to judge from YouTube etc and their site, the list of software revisions, something like ...version1 'All the sound and feel of a real tube amp'...version2 'Now it really does sound and feel like an amp'...version3 'improved touch response and tone, even more like a real amp' ...version4 ' No, honestly, now it really is just like an amp'......versionX' now even better than a real amp' X-brand washing powder cleans your whites whiter than white. Now, new improved X-brand... In the UK we had a Gillette razor 'turbo mach3' it didn't have a turbo and didn't propel itself to mach 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdanan0121 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Bit sidetracked, Just before Helix was announced, small, but one of the things that put me off a Fractal purchase, trying to judge from YouTube etc and their site, the list of software revisions, something like ...version1 'All the sound and feel of a real tube amp'...version2 'Now it really does sound and feel like an amp'...version3 'improved touch response and tone, even more like a real amp' ...version4 ' No, honestly, now it really is just like an amp'......versionX' now even better than a real amp' X-brand washing powder cleans your whites whiter than white. Now, new improved X-brand... In the UK we had a Gillette razor 'turbo mach3' it didn't have a turbo and didn't propel itself to mach 3 Not saying Fractal doesn't make a great product, we all know objectively that they do. However, those are symptoms of marketing all but replacing advertising. How about all these car commercials that have the car doing crazy things like driving on a beach, or hitting a jump, and landing on a moving train? lollipop so outlandish that has absolutely nothing to do with the car they are selling you. Plus they are also forced to have, in little letters, "stunt driver on a closed course, do not attempt yourself." -- On topic, I think L6 actually did update a few models in the Helix. I want to say either the Archon, or Mesa MkIV. Had a problem with sound cutting out with bass at 0, or mid at 0. They did adjust the amp to fix that. I think they adjusted a parameter in an effect that actually improved the sound, however I don't remember which effect that was. I may have missed one, or two things, but his is all I think they have openly admitted to changing. I think L6 just applies the experience, and better/more resources to the new models, which is why they typically do sound better than the ones it shipped with. Yet, I think for the most part they keep the older models the same. That way it pleases those that want improvements with new models, and pleases those that want more continuity of sound among their original presets. PLUS if they constantly tried to improve the models in it currently it would upset the latter, and it would upset the former because less resources/time being spent on new models. IMO the Reverbs were the only thing that needed updates. Perhaps some HX wahs down the road, as they were ported too, however that is less dire than the reverbs imo. Also how they did it by moving the ported reverbs to the legacy section, while having the HX reverb sit in the reverb section we know now is actually pretty genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexKenivel Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 The point is, is that they're not going to tell us if and when they might make "adjustments" to amp models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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