Don't dump POD HD users over Amplifi

[phil_m]

@RIblues

 

Mind explaining to us how the selling statistics of AMPLIFi, benefit POD HD users ? I must be missing something.

 

Well it might not directly benefit existing HD users, but if people are wanting to see more development at the higher end of the product line, they should want to see success at the lower end. The sales of the lower end products gives Line 6 resources to invest into other higher end products. It's kind of how the music retail business works. Higher priced items usually have lower profit margins than those at the bottom of the line, and companies usually sell less of the higher priced stuff. So in a sense, the low priced items kind of subsidize the top of the line.

[NucleusX]

I guess that's all well and good for a company and its loyal customers that continue to buy their gear during the highs and lows

of that company's over-all success, but I thought this particular thread subject had finite limits between AMPLIFi and POD HD.

In that context, I don't really see how AMPLIFi will ever benefit me, especially when I'm not an ongoing loyal customer.

I'm more concerned with what I have right now, which is a POD HD Pro, and not what "might be" presented in the future.

[TheRealZap]

how about if amplifi flops... and L6 lost tons of money and had to close up shop... would a bankrupt L6 serve you any?

seriously.... you're being incredibly short sighted... you're surely smart enough to understand...

besides... amplifi is not for you... easy enough to understand... so why would you argue about it like there is some sort of prize for having the best argument?

 

 

I guess that's all well and good for a company and its loyal customers that continue to buy their gear during the highs and lows

of that company's over-all success, but I thought this particular thread subject had finite limits between AMPLIFi and POD HD.

In that context, I don't really see how AMPLIFi will ever benefit me, especially when I'm not an ongoing loyal customer.

[Digital_Igloo]

But do not forget that you're writing in the forum dedicated to those who have chosen to use the top HD line, and not Amplifi, so it doesn't seem very appropriate to advertise (which is exactly what you have done here) an inferior product right in this precise context...

 

We're writing in a thread titled "Don't dump POD HD users over AMPLIFi". My comments are wholly appropriate, especially the ones where I state, for the benefit of POD HD users: "We aren't."

 

But this conversation is nothing new. For years, every time Apple released a new iMac or MacBook Air, a handful of high end video guys would freak out over the lack of a new Mac Pro. As if Apple could maintain its success by making nothing but Mac Pros.

[NucleusX]

@TheRealZap

 

I DEFINATELY know the AMPLIFi is not for me, and I say this without argument by the way.

Is it ok by you that I have a customer opinion ? you don't have to agree with me, but I do

have a right to participate in this discussion, no need to be condescending.

[NucleusX]

I understand what your saying about future development, and it makes total sense to me, don't get me wrong.

But in my position, as a one shot customer fully focused on my single purchase with my hard earned cash, how

much foresight should be expected from me ? How much should I care about the things i'll never own ? I'm all

for a growing company, but the kind of consumer your talking about, is a loyal long-term one, willing to bend.

[joel_brown]

Sheeesh, are you guys that dense ?.  Does Gibson or Fender or Ibanez only sell one high end guitar ?  No, they try to sell some that are less expensive or have different features too.  Do they release all their guitars on the same day every year ?  I shouldn't have to answer that but I may have to for some of you guys.

 

This is Business 101.  I'm grateful for the post by DI to clarify things.  Someone started this post by saying Don't Dump PODHD Custumers for Amplifi.  They're not, but they do make other products.

[NucleusX]

@Digital_Igloo

 

Are we to assume that the POD HD has finally hit its EOL ? or are we to expect some unexpected things for it in the near future ?

All this speculation based on the unknown makes it hard for some of us consumers to know how to make our own next steps.

I'll add that I am also grateful for your input, but I believe I should also treat you as I would any man, not as a god, as some do.  :P

[silverhead]

@NucleusX

 

How much foresight should be expected of you? None.

How much should you care about other Line 6 products? Not at all.

Should we assume that the POD HD has reached EOL? Yes, that should be our working assumption until and unless we know (not speculate) otherwise.

 

As soon as you find a better product for yourself, from any manufacturer, you should buy it. Don't waste further time speculating about what Line 6 might or might not do next, and stop (apparently) resenting the fact that they are working on other products.

[NucleusX]

I'm about as resentful about it as the OP is, but anyways, thanks.

I asked D.I. because he seems to know more about the ins and outs of what

Line6 are up to than anyone else here, not that I expected a solid answer

based on what he can and can't say, but it's worth a shot don't you think ?

Even Microsoft make EOL information publically known. No assumptions

usually needed around that question in most cases.

 

:ph34r: Here lurks the Line6 Anti-Christ. lol.

[Digital_Igloo]

@Digital_Igloo

 

Are we to assume that the POD HD has finally hit its EOL ? or are we to expect some unexpected things for it in the near future ?

All this speculation based on the unknown makes it hard for some of us consumers to know how to make our own next steps.

I'll add that I am also grateful for your input, but I believe I should also treat you as I would any man, not as a god, as some do.

 

I'm fairly certain POD HD300, HD400, HD500, and HD Pro have been EOLed. I can't (legally) talk about the future of POD HD500X, HD Pro X, and HD Bean, but all are currently shipping products.

 

And if anyone wants to treat me like a god, I love Thai food, movies, traveling, and back rubs.  :D

[NucleusX]

@Digital_Igloo

 

Hahaha, thanks for the response, least someone here has a sense of humour :)

[RipperShred]

Just read the whole thread from start to finish, and I'm glad @Digital_Igloo has a sense of humour about this. I KNOW the reason you can't say anything about what's in the pipeline is because you're a businessman, and telling people when the next big thing is coming out can hurt sales of the current big thing.

 

All of us not having a meltdown over waiting are just dying to know what the timeline is on the "next big thing", because we own the current tech, and knowing one way or the other isn't going to stop us from buying another one that we were never going to purchase in the first place.

 

I'm as happy with my HD Pro as ever, but some missing amp models and a less than ideal midi-input implementation has me wondering when your next unit will ship, what its features will be, and if it will address these things for me.

 

It's like waiting for Christmas, only 100x worse because unlike Christmas we have abosolutely no idea when it's going to happen, and after a while we start to wonder IF it's going to happen. :lol:

[radatats]

I'm fairly certain POD HD300, HD400, HD500, and HD Pro have been EOLed. I can't (legally) talk about the future of POD HD500X, HD Pro X, and HD Bean, but all are currently shipping products.

 

That's interesting because I don't see the bean for sale anywhere... ???  I figured my HD500 was EOL, as long as it continues to hold up I am definitely getting my money's worth out of it...

[Digital_Igloo]

but what do you expect? that we HD modelers owners should consider the AMPLIFi as a immensely better tonesculpting machine...

 

I don't think (and have never implied) AMPLIFi is an immensely better tonesculpting machine than, say POD HD500X. It's a completely different type of guitar product, designed to be used in a different manner, in a different environment. Its workflow is unique, and some have a hard time wrapping their head around it.

 

...while waiting to emigrate again to the next super HD release (if any)?...

 

If it were up to me, you'd be playing through whatever Line 6 product(s) meet your needs.  :)

[NucleusX]

Is it usually common for Line6 to first debut their new products at NAMM ?

Cause as far as I know, one just passed, so it won't be happening for another 6 months.

[TheRealZap]

not being condescending... i even give you credit for being smart enough to understand...

 

those smarts that i know you possess, simply do not fit with the argument you're trying to make...

 

fair enough that you have an opinion on the matter...

but it's being expressed in an argumentative way...

which is common when someone wants their opinion to be adopted as the correct one...

i certainly do that myself... as probably anyone does....

i'm sure that many internal L6 guys have the same arguments... and someone has to win...

usually someone who's paid more than the entire GDP of a small country....

and that person decides the path forward.... and that's the path the company goes....

 

you and I, we can debate it... but we can never win the argument one way or the other.

 

 

@TheRealZap

 

I DEFINATELY know the AMPLIFi is not for me, and I say this without argument by the way.

Is it ok by you that I have a customer opinion ? you don't have to agree with me, but I do

have a right to participate in this discussion, no need to be condescending.

[Digital_Igloo]

ah ah ah.. ok .. then what's left in the arsenal of Line6 objects with which you could have made your comparison in recent years? POD 2.0? ... X3? ..

 

AMPLIFi's engine is based on an enhanced, optimized version of POD Farm 2.5, because it gives us the widest variety of models that are the easiest and most predictable to tweak—not just for us, but for the tens of thousands of users publishing their tones.

 

By comparison, POD HD features what's considered a more advanced engine, but its depth, detail, and nuance (e.g. obsessing over bias excursion and cabinet resonance level) don't necessarily make it the best candidate for "grab a guitar from your couch and jam with Deftones between "Game of Thrones" and "Silicon Valley". Does that make sense?

 

Sometimes I want to obsess over bias excursion and cabinet resonance level. Sometimes I just want to play "Minerva" while my girlfriend's grabbing popcorn.

[NucleusX]

@TheRealZap

 

There seems to be fine line's between things taken as an opinion/debate/argument.

Whatever definition YOU choose to interpret is up to you, but on a forum, i'll only

go as far as a "debate". Also, Its hard to know what angle of perspective your working

with, seen as tho most of my comments are met with an element of negative feedback

suppression, which is how most admins come off most of the time, rather than neutral.

My intelligence can only read so far into your text, which has massive limitations as

far as accurately communicating/interpreting with other human beings is concerned.

This has always been a general problem communicating and chatting online since day dot.

[Rewolf48]

Did I get a chance to say that I am not angry about this, just disappointed?  :huh:

 

That's the problem with a board that is mainly US based, you go to sleep in Europe and the world conversation moves on without you.

[scottyo78]

Ahh... the quest (desire) for the perfect gear and guitar tone. :D

 

I loved my POD XT Live. The main reason I got the HD500 is for it's XLR outs (play at churches), additional in/outs and some new effects like the "Smart Harmony", "Whammy", etc..

 

Luckily, I'm either tech savvy enough to have been able to get a nice tone out of both... or I have low expectations. ;)

[PRSGuy]

I think some people take a way too serious sense of pride in how hard it may be to get a good tone. In other words, the presets could never be good enough in a HD500, AMPLIFi is for plug in play newbies, how good can it be? I haven't lamented over every setting so it must be for beginners? The AMPLIFi doesn't have a sag knob it must suck...kinda mentality. If it sounds good, it is good.

 

I think they are both nice products. I am a geek type and love twiddling knobs and working at the tone so I own a HD500, but that doesn't mean AMPLIFi is not an incredibly viable product. Will it replace the HD series as the flagship? Highly unlikely. Line 6 has made it pretty clear the audience for this product. With that said, cash is king so regardless what we think is the best move, line6/Yamaha is the one driving the boat and paying the bills.

 

Some of the greatest records (think CD but much bigger, analog, if you turn it by hand real fast it sounds like chipmunks) were made with tools much more simple than either product.

[NucleusX]

@PRSGuy

 

I would say that the kind of people (like me) looking for a "SAG" control, are the kind of people that want

to see more and more of the actual hardware environment, mimicked in the software DSP environment,

which brings us one step closer to making the experience as good as the real thing.

In that respect, AMPLIFi is a step back, geared towards simplicity.

 

Now if I think about it after digressing, I would say a lot of us POD HD owners feel a bit let down watching

Line6 abandon us for a simplistic toy targeted at a different kind of guitarist. We feel (or at least I do) that

its final developments where cut a bit short. Sure, The POD HD is ok as is, but it could've went further in

the firmware/ampsim department. Bit of kick in the face when even a request for a simple EQ % issue to

be rectified is ignored, how hard is that to fix ? I doubt it's as hard as modelling a new amp.

 

Where's sedgey in this discussion lol, finish what you started ! 

[NucleusX]

@RIblues

 

It doesn't seem like your paying much attention to this discussion lol. D.I. has said (or at least is "fairly certain"), that

all the non X POD HD versions have been put to EOL status, that means, if this is %100 correct,  that we will never

see anymore updates, period, only the current X versions will, I own a POD HD Pro btw, the non X version.

I must make one thing clear, I didn't create a Line6 forum account to trumpet how good Line6 gear is, I made it to have

another trouble-shooting tool (with discussion), in the toolbox, when needed, I'm not too interested in your Line6 politics lol.

And I'm not interested in AMPLIFi either, it might sound good, which is something I can't comment on, not having tried

one myself, but its interface is enough to turn me right off. I don't want my FX controlled by an Apple iPad, I want them to

function as a standalone unit as they are, if you don't understand that, something is wrong.

As for the EQ thing, I never saw D.I's comment on it, do you have a link for me to look at ? cheers. 

[NucleusX]

Ok great, ty. But even that post isn't said with %100 certainty, is anything that Line6 is asked, answered with %100 certainty ?

lol, too much cloak and dagger if you ask me, pretty frustrating when you can't get "certain" answers most of the time, even

on the simple questions that wouldn't hurt their business statistics, even after 4 years !

[NucleusX]

Sorry if I sound like noob lol, but what is S-Gear ?

 

:huh: *googles*

 

B) Scuffham S-Gear Amp Modelling.

 

Ok, so this is some flavour of VST amp modelling for PC/MAC, for re-amping and such ?

 

:mellow: Me thinks he's advertising.. lol.

[brue58ski]

WRONG WONG....I'm sorry to hear the HD series is probably EOL....WRONG WRONG I HAVE FOUND OUT THIS IS NOT TRUE. I'M LEAVING IT IN BUT PLEASE DISEGARD. but am glad it was said. I've been a Line 6 boy since the XT/Vetta days. Have I had my dissapointments and has Line 6 dropped the ball at times? Yes. Have I gotten my money's worth? Absolutely. But the HD series, aside from sounding good, seems to be a step back. Each POD, from 2.0 to the X3, seemed to always add more options aside fom the modeling. And with firmware upgrades, often added even more. Just kept getting more computer recording and output options.

 

Now with the EQ situation, no power switch, less ouput and computer recording options than before, etc. It's been a let down in some ways. I am not unhappy with my HD500 or the JTV69 I also own but I think I will sit back and wait awhile before I hop aboard Line 6's latest and greatest like I used to.

 

I still have my XT bean, XT Live, Vetta, Variax 500, UX2 auidio inteface and X3 live which all have what I consider to still be very good modelling. At the very least, I can pettry much get whatever I need and want out of them, and be happy about it. I haven't used anything but Line 6 for everything since I got my first XT and guitar wise when I got my first Variax so I think I'm good for now.

 

I have approx. (counting the pre HD models) 102 guitar amps, 39 guitar amp cabs, 29 bass amps, 23 bass amp cabs, six mic preamps, over 100 effects, over 50 guitars with the ability to create my own. Compared to what I had before I'm doing good. Will I get a sound exactly like "Insert name here" JCM800 or whatever else you want to conjure up. Sometimes, maybe. Can I get a sound that, from jazz to folk to folk rock to rock to rock & roll to metal to grunge, ad nauseum, is at worst tolerable and at best, inspiring. Yes I will and have. So again, for now, unless it's fairly mindblowing, I'm good and I'm done. (for now ;))

[joepetrucci85]

Hmm, I wish I've seen this before purchasing my HD500X weeks ago. Oh well, gotta make work of what I have now. If all else fails, then I'll just play the flute. How's that for inspiring guitar players? Kidding. :-D

[radatats]

I'm sorry to hear the HD series is probably EOL...

 

Just to be clear, that's not what DI said... he said the 300, 400, 500 and PRO are EOL, the 500X and PROX are still in production and shipping units.  Not sure what he meant about the HD bean since that isn't for sale anywhere.  OK the 300 and 400 should be dropped.  The 500 series platform we all know the chips are gone and the FS are no longer used so duh, of course that platform is EOL.  The X platform is the new standarrd and is in production and shipping units. 

 

So the HD series is not EOL, just the older models.  That does not mean that software and firmware updates for the X series will not be available for the 500 series, nor does it mean they will no longer support the other models, at least for a period of time.  I think we wil be good with our HD's and the 500's for the foreseeable future.

 

No company worth its busness model would develop only one line of products at a time and any good business model would ensure staggered release dates to allow the sales and marketing team to focus on the latest release and maximize success.  I have no doubt there are other exciting things in the pipeline that will continue to expand the possibilities for us...

[NucleusX]

I think brue58ski got it right the first time lol, emphasis on the word

"probably" (which is derived from D.I's quote "fairly certain"), and he

just said "HD" as opposed to "HD-X". meh, semantics.

[Digital_Igloo]

D.I. has said (or at least is "fairly certain"), that all the non X POD HD versions have been put to EOL status, that means, if this is %100 correct,  that we will never see anymore updates, period, only the current X versions will.

 

Whoa—hold on. A product's EOL status is completely independent of whether it receives future firmware updates. It's not fair to poke and goad for an answer, and then take said answer out of context and spread misinformation. Remember—I'm accountable for my comments on forums, and would like to keep communicating with you guys.

 

EOL means new units of a particular SKU are no longer being manufactured. Of course HD500 and HD Pro are EOLed, because they were replaced with HD500X and HD Pro X! Implying that "EOL" means we've stopped supporting a product altogether is disingenuous.

 

Now I have to go scrub a dozen other forums to make sure this hasn't spread.

[NucleusX]

Hmm, well, I can surely say my intention wasn't to spread misinformation, it was to

try and nail a definite answer on a looming question, so I apologize for the confusion,

that clarification would've been nice from the get-go, but oh well, my bad.

Argh, I give up on any kind of solid answers on this subject, I'm done.

[sedgey]

I started this, so I'd like to finish it, I've read all the comments... it's obvious that it's a touchy subject! 

I'd like to say this, I'm glad Digital Igloo has chipped in and imparted what information he can with out revealing too much, I didn't start this thread as a Line 6 bashing mechanism at all, in fact in my second post I clearly stated that I like (if not love) my gear, all of which I use on a daily basis, it's because of that that I felt the need to express my sentiments about Amplifi, Dream rig updates and QA. 

At some point, "the dream rig" became a catch phrase and Line 6 decided to market it that way, as is evident by numerous youtube videos etc while I agree the elements can work well together, I've never felt that much effort went into making it more dreamy! In fact I've had much more success and better sound using elements of the dream rig separately. 

I suppose what I'm talking about is much about trust and brand management. Now that I understand that no more HD500's will be manufactured but that doesn't rule out firmware updates, I can rest a little easier, but I can't help but think Line 6 missed a trick... the biggest problem with the dream rig is that you cant easily run JTV variax acoustic models via the DT amps, so you either need to get an L2/L3 or run into the PA, The amplifi's unique speaker layout would in theory let you do that... all in the same box.

I am and still will be a Line 6 fan as long as you keep coming up with the goods, I'm hoping that you'll do a better job at recognising that by improving the manufacturing quality and taking better care of your existing customers that you'll ultimately reap the benefit, both by word of mouth and through sales, I've personally sold a lot of Line 6 gear via affiliates and to friends by demo-ing it and reviewing via my various publications, but there comes a point.... Idea scale is a prime example of great vehicle being relatively ignored, free market research and idea storming.... there's some amazing ideas on there, but when I see the "implemented" list ....

 

[joel_brown]

I just hope a few people on here haven't hurt our communication with DI by assuming the wrong thing and reposting.  That's why Line6 has to be so careful when posting on forums.

 

DI, I understood what you were saying and I hope most people here did also.  I appreciate your communications and hope it continues.  I'm sure Line6 will let us know, if and when, any new updates are available for the PODHD as soon as they can.

[NucleusX]

If there was any kind of re-posting, it never came from me. Although, I gotta say, I'm a little pissed at this

cloak and dagger/smoke and mirrors crap, no transparency to be found here, my fault for that expectation.

[Digital_Igloo]

I'm a little pissed at this cloak and dagger/smoke and mirrors crap, no transparency to be found here...

 

I've mentioned this before, but...

 

Line 6 is wholly owned by Yamaha, which is a publicly traded company. As such, legally, we aren't allowed talk about certain things. Smaller, privately held companies can do whatever they want, and larger companies hire specialized PR drones to deal with forum interaction.

 

The point of my presence in this thread was to stress, emphatically, that we haven't "dumped POD HD users over AMPLIFi". And secondly, to point out that AMPLIFi isn't a toy.

[brue58ski]

Well I'm glad I was wrong in regard to the EOL. So, in the interest of full disclosure, the HD500X HDPro X are NOT EOL.  I guess I need to read a bit more carefully. I think I'll edit my last post just to avoid confusion.

 

By the way, in regard to the X upgrade happening because of user complaints or because it was all part of a grand Line 6 conspiracy. It was NONE of those. The chip they were using was discontinued; the chip they had to replace it with had more DSP. Instead of a bunch of new HD500 users saying "hey, I can add more stuff than you" and the firestorm that we know that would create they changed the model number to reflect the new chip. They also decided to change the footswitches, why not since it's going to have a new name. AND all for the same price. Line 6 may have dropped the ball on several things in their history but this is definitely one time I think they did exactly the right thing. Except for not being more upfront about what happened which led to all this conjecture. AGAIN, not customer complaints, not a conspiracy, just fate. I've posted this in several threads and wish the word would get out. It would eliminate a few posts.

[rogue203]

Some of you guys really need to understand the concept of running a business. Line6 isn't going to keep their business alive selling products only to the small percentage of people that need or can afford the POD HD X series or the whole Dream Rig.

 

If Line6 sells thousands, or hundreds of thousands of Amplifi products with a margin that allows them to invest in the development and sale of higher end equipment that only sells to a smaller percentage of people, that's a GOOD thing. Innovative companies do not survive trying to only bring the highest level gear to market, unless they charge a very high premium for that gear, and can stay far enough ahead of the market to avoid competition. Line6 is playing in a space, at a relatively decent price point, that requires that they have a diverse portfolio of products.

 

D.I. has to be careful of what he says for legal reasons, which he's stated multiple times, and some of you don't understand; and, I know from my own professional career, is most definitely true.

 

Before digital technology, the only way to upgrade or update gear was to buy new gear. Even if Line6 only provides one or two updates a year to existing products, they're still providing an advantage over collecting mounds of additional gear.

 

Would I like Line6 to provide updates more often, and with more features--absolutely. But, I wonder how many people really understand how to use the gear they already have completely. 

[smrybacki]

Obviously, if developing a hardware + software solution for Android was anywhere close to as simple, non-fragmented, secure, and predictable as developing for iOS, everyone would be doing it.

 

Google's taken a lot of steps in the right direction lately, so things aren't as bleak as they once were.

Google has more cats to herd.  Apple is the gated community after all and until 3 years ago, Appleheads always had Steve Jobs to do their thinking for them.  It's a brave new world.

[gunpointmetal]

Amplifi is a toy....an expensive one, but a practice "toy" much like a Pocket POD or a guitar with a speaker built into it.....