roscoe5

And again...all valid points for FRFR. I love it! Firehawk 1500 is definitely on my "try" list. It seems well-engineered to spread and fill on stage, it a room, etc. I'm sure it's a more guitar-cab-comparable experience than playing through studio monitors, even 8" ones, and PA speakers. But because Helix sounds SO good through my guitar cabs and solid state or neutral tube amp, it's hard for me to be really motivated to change over.

I use a 150W Crate Power Block with a Mesa 212. I run Helix at 50-60% live. It can be ear splitting at about 70%. I too play heavy music with my band and Helix sounds great with it. I like it because it fits in my Helix backpack and has no fan (passive cooling heat sink), super quiet. I worry about the inexpensive-ness of it, but it has never failed me. I wouldn't worry too much about the 300W Rocktron not being loud enough if you are running a cab at 8ohms. The Matrix amps are likely higher quality, reflected in the price. I'd imagine you could blow your speakers if you really tried. But like you said, you can run at 16 ohms, turn down the gain knobs, etc. I think they are really meant to run MUCH lower than their rated output as SS amp distortion is not pleasant, digital SS amp distortion even less so. This is an interesting video from Matrix describing the differences between the Matrix GTX800 & 1000. Stephanie Pickard describes the 1000 as more "soft and tubey" and the 800 as "tighter, more accurate". The sound quality is not that good in her videos is horrible and does the Matrix amps no justice. I don't know why they would produce a product video with sound like that. You can actually hear what she describes better in the Pete Thorn video you posted earlier in this thread.

Because of this thread, I just spent a couple of hours jamming Helix (no cab/IR models) into may SS Crate Power Block and Mark V Combo speaker (same type Celestion as the Vetta) and daaang it sounds good...every single amp model...even just leaving default settings...all day every day (quoting Sean Halley from a Line 6 video I think). I love playing Helix through my studio monitors and headphones. And heck, we may all go FRFR one day. But I really don't think you will be disappointed at all with Helix into that Vetta combo if you can get it hooked up and going. If you were happy with Vetta before, you should be floored with Helix + Vetta.

Man, I am SO fickle about FRFR vs guitar cab/amp, live or house. I love both. I keep going back and forth all the time. I've read countless posts on both camps, and agree with almost every point on both sides. Just tonight I had the house to myself and was jammin out with Helix through my Tannoy 8" monitors and really got to crank them. Loved it! Then just tonight, since I've been trying to help another guy here hook up into the power amp in his L6 Vetta II solid state combo with custom L6 Celestion Classic Lead 80's, I broke out my old solid state Crate Power Block and plugged it into my Mesa Mark V combo speaker (same type Celestion as the Vetta), turned off the Helix cabs/IR's and played for over 2 hours, scrolling through all of the amps and even acoustic models of my JTV-69. Everything sounded awesome with just default amp settings. Guitar cabs and speakers are just easy and predictable. It doesn't take much effort to get great, familiar and intuitive tones out of them. You are dependent on the sound guy, which most can mic up a cab and dial it in well. But you are limited on controlling your post-cab effects and running acoustic guitar, etc. through it. But FRFR has it's rewards for those who invest the time in understanding and configuration of it, one being that you configured the final product that the audience hears, just the way you intend it...for better or worse. It is the ultimate in flexibility. Personally, I prefer the way a guitar cab fills the room or stage over FRFR. It just speaks to me and inspires me. But there is no denying the quality, control and consistency of FRFR when configured properly, and I have a different set of appreciations for it. I wouldn't hesitate to use either. Sometimes I wish I were forced to chose and commit to only one :)

The effects return is a stereo jack, so you might need a Y-cable. But... You might give the AES/EBU connection out of Helix and into Vetta II with an XLR cable a shot. It would be slick if it works. From the Vetta II manual... 34. AES/EBU digital I/O: This allows for digital connection to other digital devices with AES/EBU interfaces such as effect processors, digital mixing consoles, digital recorders or computer interface cards. Input Select Page 2 of the System setup allows you to control your Vetta inputs. Each of the inputs can be independantly turned on or off, allowing for the mixing of multiple inputs. The VARIAX control turns the rear panel Variax In on or off. The DIGITAL parameter allows you to pick the left, right or stereo input of the S/PDIF or AES/EBU signal as an input. The ANALOG parameter refers to the standard guitar input. You can leave both the VARIAX and the ANALOG inputs turned on. If you’re performing on stage you can have a regular electric guitar plugged in to the analog input and your Variax plugged in digitally. Simply leave the volume knob turned down on the instrument you’re not using at the time. Spin the Page knob, and feast your eyes on System Setup page three:

All I use live now is that Schaller mag since the piezo in my BB transducer bridge quit working. I love it. Nice P-Bass type sound and thump while still retaining some woody snap. More mids than you get with piezo IMO. You really need to fine tune the mounting position and pole piece heights though for good string balance. That G string likes to slap you in the face. I was running into a Markbass Tube Compressore>Markbass Super Booster DI>PA for years, but I've replaced it with Helix LA Comp>Tube Studio Pre>Parametric EQ. I also kick in a Minotaur Distortion, Vetta Wah (custom tweaked), and some occasional filters on the pop gigs. At one time I had the Schaller mag, BB piezo bridge, and K&K Golden Bullet Mic all wired up and running. I got tired of dealing with the feedback of the mic. When the piezo element died, I took off the K&K preamp from the tailpiece. Now I just have a guitar cable hanging off of the side of the Schaller.

Awesome. I thought I saw 3 Sigma eluding to upcoming URB and other IRs a while back. But I couldn't find anything when I searched.

Great! Thanks for the quick response.

I currently have a JTV-69 and am thinking about swapping it for a JTV-59, since it is closer to my favorite main guitar a PRS Singlecut Trem 10 top. I really enjoy the tele models on the JTV-69, and it of course has physical single coils for my strat sounds. The Lester models are pretty good too. Do the tele and strat models sound exactly the same on the JTV-59, even though it has different body wood (mahogany/maple vs alder) and carving? One more seemingly strange question I'm sure... Are the black JTV-59 carved maple tops "flame" maple as well, like the tobacco and cherry bursts, even though it is a solid color? My PRS is black with flame maple top which looks awesome. It would be cool to sand the black JTV-59 top and stain/refinish to match.

Great feedback! I really wish my Guitar Center or other local shop would get one on display to try. I hate to order large, bulky items online that I may want to return. How are you running it? 2 cable stereo with no center HF horn? 3 cable to enable horn? 3 cable Wet-dry-wet? On another note, I wonder how bass would do through it and hold up live?

The speed knobs are a good idea and still look great! Locking tuners are a nice add too.

Hi, sorry. I meant to reply earlier. I did post earlier this year about IR'ing my 1956 Kay Upright Bass. I discovered my Barcus Berry bass transducer bridge crapped out, then I found out something is wrong with my AKG P420 condenser I was going to use. Pretty much gave up after that. I'll try and dig out my K&K Golden Bullet condenser and my K&K Bass Max piezo hopefully this weekend. I've been just using my Schaller passive magnetic pickup for gigs. I can deconvolve the condenser with the piezo and the mag and should be able to get something usable. I need to experiment with how to generate a source signal for that big girl.

Whoa...bold statement sir :). My Mark V is sitting unused as well, although I've yet to go FRFR. At least you've got a great amp in the stable if/when line 6 releases amp matching.

I messed with it a bit more today. Having the cab/IR in the side path rather than the thru path worked better functionally for me. The Mesa C90 alone is great for clean and bluesy stuff. For mid to high gain sounds, I found about 75% path A thru signal and 25% cab signal takes some of the harshness out of the Mesa C90, with a touch of greenback cab model on the plexi stuff and a touch of V30 cab model on the recto/uber stuff was nice. It wasnt nearly as dark as running full cab model signal through the guitar speaker. I feel like this setup is a bit more versatile than going through real V30's, which you cant brighten for cleans. It was good times though.

Great new webpage!

Dang, that Vetta II combo is still a sexy looking amp. I looked at the back and it has stereo inputs that should work well for Helix. It looks like the Vetta is using a version of Celestion Classic Lead 80's, which will have some guitar speaker/cab character of their own. If/when you go to test them together, try the Helix full amps with no cabs/IR's. Try them with the cabs too. With Helix, a solid state amp and traditional guitar cab with Mesa Black Shadow C90's (custom Celestion Classic Lead 80's), I was finding Helix amp models with cab/IR blocks too dark and without cab/IR blocks too bright. But... ...I tried a cool trick by putting in a cab/IR block, but splitting the path to have a side-chain parallel path with a cab around in/out of the thru path. This passes a bit of the amp-only signal too. You can adjust the cab/no-cab path mix on the split. This will give a bit of both worlds and really sweeten things up. But as stated above and many times in other threads, the Alto's and L6 Stagesource speakers are great, straightforward FRFR solutions. I'm just throwing this out if you are feeling experimental and cheap ;) P.S. I own a DT50 too and actually prefer Helix full amp models>solid state amp>guitar cab over Helix preamps>DT50>guitar cab.

1. I think there is a thread where one of the Line 6 staff (silverhead or DI?) confirmed that the Amp+Cab block is the same as a separate amp block and single cab block. Both options have the same processing requirement, but Amp+Cab block saves you a slot on the path. Separate dual cab blocks do sound great though, as @jbuhajla pointed out. 2. A traditional effects loop is inserted between an amp's preamp and power amp. Helix does not currently give you this patch point. The closest you can get is after the amp and before the cab, which usually works very well. You could achieve this with Helix & DT as L6 recommends using Helix preamp blocks with DT, which serves as the power amp section. That said, @rvroberts statement about treating Helix as a studio tool (DAW channel strip) does open up the ability to add effects after the cab, which is nice. This is pretty much the configuration and approach you now have with your Mission FRFR cab.

Man, I hooked Helix up the L6 Spider Valve head and Mesa 2x12 cab again after reading @bobruz post...it really is better sounding/feeling than the solid state amp, and still lets the Helix full amp models shine through. Makes my new JTV-69 Variax modeled guitars sound better too. No stereo now, but the tone is worth it. Back to hauling a head and cab rehearsal and gigs ;)

Good tip! Hadn't thought of that. Thanks.

Anyone on the fence about getting Helix should check out the free backpack holiday bundle offer. This will save you $150. http://l6c-acdn2.line6.net/data/6/0a020a3eb96b58406c9f8a96b/application/pdf I LOVE my Helix backpack. It's holding up very well to gigging.

It probably depends on the type of music you play mostly, but that matrix amp with Helix and your Greenbacks in the Peavey 212 may sound outstanding as is. Powering traditional guitar cabs is one of the Matrix's main applications. If you search the web, you will see a lot of Fractal users with an AXE FX>Matrix>traditional guitar cab. I'm not sure why it's not more popular in this Helix group. Normally you wouldn't run any Helix cab models or IR's into that setup as your Peavey/Greenbacks ARE the cab. You'll still find A LOT of versatility in just the Helix amp models and effects alone, and your life will be MUCH less complicated with cab/IR models. Greenbacks are great for mid-gain, classic rock. Celestion V30's for mid-heavy distortion. Celestion Seventy-80's for 80's-90's metal. Jensen alnicos for cleans. Dont be afraid to mix speakers for more versatility. That Matrix amp is stereo, so you could have a Greenback on one side and a Jensen on the other, then pan Helix left, right or blend depending on your preset. I have personally found that the Mesa Black Shadow C90 is a VERY versatile speaker with Helix for both clean and mid-high gain sounds. I actually run one of these and one V30 in a Mesa Recto 212 and mic both speakers live. This is what Mesa did for their Road King cabs and what Line 6 did in the DT50 212 combo. I currently use a stereo Crate Powerblock amp, but would love to have that Matrix. Too bad Matrix doesnt make one that is half that wide and twice as tall, as that would fit in my Helix backpack front pouch like my Crate Powerblock (hint hint Line 6) :)

This is probably beyond a simple Helix effect, but some serious midi-type virtual instrument sounds (strings, organ, piano, percussion, etc.). Magnetic pickup functionality would be great. Variax integration would be fine. Add-on pickup would be fine. With the Line 6-Yamaha union, I would have to think this is possible. Electro-Harmonix B9 & C9 pedals do well with mags. Roland does some nice mag-based stuff with the SY-300. Even more with the add-on GK pickup and GR system. Fishman Triple Play pickup system and computer-midi instrument integration is another good example. Maybe these would be implemented more like amp models/blocks than effects models/blocks.

The power section of my Line 6 Spider Valve HD100 is my current favorite over the DT50, Mesa 290, Marshall 100/100, Mesa 20/20, Mesa Recto and Mesa Stiletto power amps. I can run Helix full amp models through the SV, not just preamps.

So could this explain the slight difference I hear between plugging Variax into Helix via 1/4" vs VDI? I have to go Variax 1/4" to Helix while editing Variax via Workbench HD on computer, connected to the USB dongle via VDI.

It is good to know that Helix-Variax owners are a minority compared to other Helix owners, shedding some light on Line 6 prioritization. Maybe Line 6 isn't as driven to enhance the Helix-Variax-DT experience to potentially sell more current-gen Variax and DT amps as I thought. I suppose that makes sense. I certainly do appreciate the new user type-agnostic content and features issued in the updates this year. As a new JTV Variax owner, maybe it's just my inexperience with Helix and Variax, but I have difficulty getting the same levels and tone with Variax via 1/4" to Helix (VDI to the USB interface to computer while I am tweaking in Workbench HD) than when I go VDI-direct to Helix for live use. I am tweaking pickup types, position, levels, etc. in Workbench HD to the Helix amps/preset while connected 1/4" to Helix. But when I go back to VDI to Helix, it's just slightly off. Oh well, I guess that level of subtlety wont be noticed by the audience in a mix, but it is a bit frustrating. Additionally, (user error of course) but I occasionally seem to miss the Variax controls and model settings on the Helix input block while I was in computer Helix-Variax preset tweak/edit mode and have had to fix live. It's pretty inconvenient and doesn't logically flow well at the moment for me. DT integration/edit Helix settings are challenging as well, but that has been beat to death and OT for this thread. But none of these issues are really gating, just annoyances to me. I would hate to derail new Helix-centric content and feature development for these. I enjoy getting new amps and effects quarterly :)