rd2rk

Recap. You asked for a solution to an unusual problem. I explained why MIDI won't work, and suggested a possible, though expensive, solution (that was me, not phil). I set up a test to simulate using a single exp pedal to control two gain blocks using my HX Floor (again, that was me, not phil), and reported the results, which were inconsistent, and advised that it would be an expensive experiment. I asked, out of curiosity, why you were using two LTs. You replied: That struck both myself and phil as strange, since it's a problem that most of us resolve within the 8 block confines of an HX Stomp using EQ and IRs. You then ADDED: Fair enough. You proposed using a couple of cheaper solutions. I then researched the EHX, which MIGHT work. I can't test the Y-cable thing because I don't have an outboard exp pedal. As for CV Out, from page 9 of the HELIX FLOOR Manual: "CV/Expression Out - Connect to the expression pedal input on stompboxes or CV (Control Voltage) input on vintage pedals or synths." That indicates to me that it's sending a variable voltage which I wouldn't want to risk connecting to something that doesn't specifically call for it. But then I'm no electrical engineer either. Also, per the LT Manual's back panel diagram, the LT doesn't have a CV out. Having already reported inconsistent results using a similar configuration (single exp pedal), I replied truthfully, in what I thought was a humorous manner. You apparently took offense. I'll not apologize for my sense of humor. Bottom line, if it's that important to you, you need to take a risk on a POSSIBLE solution. How much you want to invest in the experiment is up to you. I've done all I could for you, researching two pedals, reading manuals and conducting an experiment to test the theory. DEMANDING that the conversation be taken off-line because I haven't followed your rules as "Owner" of the thread, and haven't provided a positive solution to your unusual problem using HW that I haven't personally used, is, frankly, unreasonable, rude and offensive. More importantly, the purpose of this forum is to provide a space where USERS (none of us work for Line6) can help other users. IF you find a solution to your UNUSUAL problem, I HOPE that you'll be considerate enough to report it here, so that it might be helpful to others. Good Luck in your quest. I await your report on the ultimate solution.

Just to be clear - on your Helix, you have PRESET levels - Amp Gain and Master, Channel (overall amp volume), Output Block and whatever FX Levels. Those are all involved in the gain staging of your presets, which affect your TONE, and the level that reaches the physical outputs. The physical XLR/1-4" Outputs have MIC/INST/LINE settings. The BIG KNOB is the final output adjustment on HELIX. The Channel Strip settings I mentioned (TRIM) are on the mixing board, not on Helix.

Using 2 Helixes parallely to combat fizz makes you a trailblazer in the field of Helix fizz reduction. Being a trailblazer entails certain risks. It's on you to decide whether the risks outweigh the potential benefits. Most of us, if we even consider "fizz" as a problem, just use EQ and IRs. Just sayin'...

Native works fine in Reaper 6.42, Cakewalk, LIVE! and S1 v5. That's on two different system, i5 and i7, W10 Pro on both Sounds like you have a system problem. Are you by chance short on HD space? HD need defragging? Is there an update downloaded and pending reboot that you've been avoiding? Hard to know where to start with a problem like this. Maybe it's time for a system rebuild. PITA, but Windows is like that. Sometimes it just gets totally scrambled. OTOH, I haven't rebuilt mine in years.

The XLR Channel strips on a mixer have a preamp, that's usually the top knob on the strip, sometimes labeled TRIM. This allows you to get an optimal signal for whatever you're plugging into it. There's usually an XLR Input for MICs and a 1/4" Input for LINE level signals. There's an LED that indicates an OVERLOAD condition. The first step when setting up the input levels on the board is to pull the channel slider down, then shout (or sing at performance level) into the mic and set the channel input level (TRIM) according to when the overload LED flashes. On my Behringer Xenyx502, when you plug in a MIC, the full counterclockwise level is +10db, and the weaker the MIC signal the more you turn it up to compensate. MAX is +60db. MIC levels are weaker than LINE levels. If you plug a LINE level into the 1/4" on that channel strip, the MIN level is -10db, MAX level is +40db. So, if you plug an XLR in that's set to LINE, you're starting with an INPUT signal that's +10db. If you plug a 1/4" in at LINE level, you're starting at -10db. IOW - XLR at LINE Level, TRIM at full counterclockwise (MIN), Channel Strip Input Level is +10db. 1/4" at LINE Level, TRIM at full counterclockwise (MIN), Channel Strip Input Level is -10db. Same LINE Level signal from Helix, different Input level at the Channel Strip. This is why, when sending from Helix to FOH, you should disable the BIG KNOB (set it to control something other than the Outputs you're sending to FOH). That ensures that FOH gets a steady UNITY (0db) signal. With the BIG KNOB enabled, if you increase the BIG KNOB setting, you could overload the Channel Strip Input, which would make your sound guy very unhappy.

In Global Settings>Ins/Outs, with "Volume Controls" set to HP, the Output Level at the Main Outs is 0.0db (UNITY - level IN = level OUT). That's the level you want to send to your interface which, with its Input Gain control set to 0, should be sending a 0.0db (UNITY) level to your DAW. IOW - the DAW should be receiving the same level as the HXS is sending. If that level is too hot, set the Output Level to MIC and vice versa. In Global Settings>Ins/Outs you can set the level of the SENDS to either INST (if you have Stomp boxes in the loop) or LINE (for sending to your amp's RETURN). The Default Output level at the SENDS is 0.0db (UNITY). The SEND Block has a SEND Level control, as the RETURN Block has a RETURN Level control. The FX Loop Blocks have BOTH. These levels are independent of the Global Settings, they just adjust the levels from that base.

Get an Insert Cable: AmazonSmile: Hosa STP-201 1/4" TRS to Dual 1/4" TS Insert Cable, 1 Meter : Electronics or AmazonSmile: Hosa YPP-117 1/4" TRS to Dual 1/4" TSF Stereo Breakout Cable : Musical Instruments Plug the TRS end into the SEND. In Global Settings>Ins/Outs set Return Type to RETURN. 4CM The TIP end of the Insert cable is FX Loop L. Plug that into your Amp's Input. Take the Amp's FX Send back to HXS Return L/MONO. Place FX Loop L Block after ODs/Distortions etc - anything you want BEFORE the Amp's Input. Add Time based FX - delay/reverb etc. Take your MAIN L/MONO Out to your Amp's FX Loop RETURN. If you want to use External FX in FX Loop R, take the RING end of the Insert cable (FX Loop R Block) to the external FX INPUT, take the external FX OUTPUT back to HXS RETURN R. Place FX Loop R Block where you want it. If an FX Loop Block is ON but there's nothing in the loop, you won't hear anything. Assign a FS or Snapshot to the FX Loop Blocks' Bypass as required (or have separate presets) to be ready for a show. Or Bypass the FX Loops manually at show time. Consider separate presets, as doing this (even with FS/SS) on EVERY preset during a show is a PITA! BEST: use a short jumper between Send/Return when not using the loop. Be aware that by using both loops you're adding <>4ms of latency. Not a lot, but might affect "feel" if you're sensitive to that. Also be aware that the FX Loops add a small bit of noise, so not a great idea to put ODs/Distortions in the FX Loops unless you plan to use a Noise Gate or HW noise filter.

You can TRY anything you want, as nothing you do in the digital world will cause the magic smoke to billow forth from your equipment. I RECOMMEND that you use the FULL Helix Amps WITHOUT Cabs, out the Main Outs and into the JC40 FX Return. Because the JC series has no tubes in the preamp, and is designed to impart no color of its own (flat), you MIGHT find that it sounds better to run the Helix Outs into the JC40 Stereo Inputs since, if you're not using the JC40 FX Loop, the signal will remain Stereo, and that allows you to use the JC40's tone stack. Try it both ways. I DON'T recommend that you use the Helix PRE amps (vs FULL amps) in this configuration. That usually works best with a tube amp using 4cm, as they're meant to replace the PRE amp in the tube amp. Keep in mind that what makes the JC (JAZZ Chorus) series great amps for jazz is that they are essentially FLAT, solid-state amps. What goes in is what comes out, only louder. That's also why they make a great amp for Helix, because you're hearing Helix, uncolored by tubes and the special sauce circuitry that gives each tube amp it's "signature" sound.

If I understand you, you're wanting an end-to-end Stereo signal chain. You should have bought the Helix Floor, which has 4 FX loops. You need FX Loops 1 and 2 to get the panned Helix amps into the JC40 Inputs in Stereo, and back out to the Helix Returns. Unless I'm mis-reading the specs, the JC40's FX Loop is not fully Stereo. The SEND is MONO, which would sum the JC40's Stereo Inputs to MONO before sending back to Helix. Depending upon where exactly in the JC40 signal chain the Line Outs are (Pre or Post FX Loop Returns, my guess is Post), you might be able to use them as the STEREO SENDS (if they're Pre FX Loop), BUT.... Irregardless, you then need Helix FX Loops 3 and 4 to get the Helix Stereo FX back to the JC40 in Stereo. Sorry, it's not going to work. The best I can suggest is to route around the JC40 Inputs. Put your Mono FX before the split to Helix Amps, put your Stereo FX after the Mixer Block, then send your L/R Main Outs to the JC40 FX Loop Returns. That way, you're using the full Helix Amp models (with their power tube emulations and baked in speaker response curves) into the JC40's super clean Stereo Power Amps. One other advantage here is that you're avoiding the latency inherent in using two FX Loops. Minor disadvantage - you probably wouldn't be able to use the Roland FX, since all you're using the JC40 for is it's Stereo Power amps and speakers. EDIT: You can also send you L/R Main Outs to the JC40's Inputs if you want to use it's tone stack and built in FX. This shouldn't color the tone, as there's no preamp tubes. Sort of like sending to a PA. Try it, if it sounds good, it is!

When you load a preset, the MIDI Value of the assigned parameter will always revert to the SAVED Value. This might be what you're looking for: SP25L-PRO Aero – Mission Engineering As you said, an expensive solution, and it might not work. I just tried using two presets with just a gain block, with GAIN assigned to EXP1, and In Global Settings>ExpPedals>EXP1-Pedal Position set to GLOBAL. When I switched presets, the GAIN Value SOMETIMES remained the same, but SOMETIMES it changed slightly. I thought it might be that the pedal was moving with the vibration of pressing the UP/DOWN switches, but it also happened when switching in HX Edit. I imagine it would be the same using presets on different LTs, but $200 is an expensive experiment! Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're doing? Just out of curiosity, why are you running TWO LTs in parallel?

I concur with @waymda, except I'd run it in 4cm. Try it both ways.

I used the numbers you provided with mixed (random) results. I couldn't figure out how to get LIVE to send Program Changes. Neither S1 nor LIVE have a logical Event Editor. I HIGHLY recommend that, unless OP has a MAJOR investment of time in to S1, he should try Reaper, which has no such problems like the others can't handle, has a logically configurable Events List/Editor, and can easily both record and manually configure projects for use with Helix.

Assuming a MONO signal chain, you can use Left out to one amp and RIGHT to the other, then assign a FS (or Snapshots) to the PAN parameter in the Output Block, full LEFT or full RIGHT. If you want it 3-way you'll need to use Snapshots to send the signal L/R/Both.

Put the TT2 in TRS Mode (video on the website). Use a TRS cable. In Global Settings>Footswitches set FS4/FS5 to Stomp4/Stomp5. In Global Settings>Preferences set Exp/FS4 to TIP and Exp/FS5 to RING, Tip/Ring Polarity NORMAL. Use the little gear looking icon on the lower left of the HX Edit screen, Device Settings Tab, to set the functions. My little $20 Moskey Dual Switch works perfectly for both functions.

I've found that amp sims are much more important for guitar than bass. I've used a BOSS ME-50b for years. No amp sim, no cab sim, just eq and fx. I've tried to get the Helix bass amps and cabs, including many IRs, to sound good through my FRFR112, and always go back to a touch of compression, eq, distortion and other fx as required, and just a hint of room reverb to liven it up. Essentially, same as I do on the ME-50b. Keep in mind how many records have been made with the bass direct to the board.

Keep in mind that multi I/O interfaces ARE mixers. They DO cost more (8i6 $300 vs Yamaha MG06X $140 for example). Consider what you can afford vs what you're going to wish you'd spent down the road.

@FAchterberg - Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread. Hope you're getting something out of it. If not, tell me to butt out and I'll start another thread. @codamedia - I guess I'm just not getting the "Automation" lane thing. I recorded on an audio track, but all it recorded was the audio. I created an Instrument track and it recorded the PC/CC messages, sort of. It doesn't display them in the track, so I'm not sure what it actually recorded, but it seems to play them back randomly. I'm sure it must just be me - you're right, what's obvious to one person is not necessarily obvious to another. The reason I want to do this at all is so that I can record the MIDI changes during a performance, then when I repeat the performance I don't need to worry about pressing buttons on Helix, the recorded MIDI track does that for me and all I have to do is play. All of this happens easily and seamlessly in Reaper and Cakewalk, but for the life of me I can't get the logic/routing that S1 uses. If you have time at some point, try what I'm trying to do. If you get it to work, maybe send a screenshot or two of your configuration. I'd appreciate it, as this is making me crazy!

YAY! Someone who actually uses S1! I'd noticed the filters in the MIDI Monitor were all checked, and assumed, since the messages were coming through, that all was good. I tried un-checking the messages, and the monitor no longer passed the messages, so I'm guessing that you meant UN-checking the boxes. Also, looking at the screenshot that DD posted, I'm wondering, if the trick is using fractional values, how S1 could record the full values that all controllers (I've ever seen) send? Does that mean that S1 WON'T record proper messages, making it impossible to record (CC/PC messages for) a performance? I'm guessing that, since most of the folks on the S1 Forum seem to be synth guys, that S1 handles NOTEs without a problem, but maybe has problems with CC/PC messages? S1 baffles me! Since I'm totally happy with Reaper, it's just curiosity at this point, but since I had to PAY for it, I want to KNOW!

Just to be clear - I'm not saying that S1 won't work, just that, unless someone with S1 experience jumps in here, you'd do well to check out the S1 Forum, especially if you have a lot of time invested in S1. Learning a new DAW can be daunting. BUT....Reaper is better. Just sayin'.... :-)

Helix Floor has a mic input, as well as Variax, and is a great recording interface. It's only flaw (IMO) is latency when playing (AND MONITORING) through plugins. If you pick up a small mixer you can take your computer and Helix audio outs to it and with the speakers connected to the mixer you can easily control the mix of streaming audio and DAW to your speakers while still direct monitoring your guitar/variax/mic through the FRFR108. This is essentially what I do in the office (no variax, don't sing) with my HXS and FRFR112. In my studio (the living room) I have a Scarlett 18i20 to handle inputs from the computer, DAW, Helix, synth and eDrums. It takes the place of the small mixer, and provides much better latency when I'm using plugins. If you have a MAC you can use the 2i2 and Helix by creating an "aggregate" device. I've read that people who do that have mixed results. You can try doing it with a PC by replacing the ASIO drivers from L6/Focusrite with ASIO4ALL. Again, mixed results, IF you can get it to work. IME, not the way to go. Either way you lose some of the functions of the Helix as interface. In summary - get a small mixer OR an AI with enough I/O to handle your needs. If you go with a better AI, get one with S/PDIF so you can use the Helix S/PDIF and cut out the additional AD/DA conversion and free up the audio I/O. The Scarlett 6i6 i believe is their smallest AI that has S/PDIF.

I get what he's trying to do. The easiest step one way to test it is to record the changes. If he can record them and get them to play back, then he can manually enter the changes and it should work. But first he's got to get S1 to send MIDI to the Helix and, from my experience with S1, he may have to try a lot of stuff before he gets it to work. I couldn't even get it to record MIDI, which is the easiest part with other DAWs, and I really don't care to use S1, so not going to spend any more time on it. S1 is a PITA to use MIDI with. It's routing method is horrible. When I was working on the Amplitube problem I checked into the S1 Forum, and there was only one guy who'd managed to get it to work, and many who said it just wouldn't. He had the trick, so OP could probably find the answer faster over there. Like I said, Reaper, Cakewalk and LIVE! work fine both for recording and sending MIDI, so if he's not heavily invested in S1, yes, another DAW would probably save him a lot of grief. Reaper (my go to) is FREE with only a quick nag screen when loading (until you pay the $60 for a license), Cakewalk (Bandlab) is totally FREE, and LIVE! has a FREE Lite version that's only limited in the number of tracks (8).

Helix doesn't automatically send Snapshot MIDI, you need to set it up manually in ControlCenter using either Instant Commands or Footswitches. CC#69 with a Value of 0 (SS1) to 7 (SS8). I spent half an hour trying to get S1 to record MIDI, darned if I can figure out how it's done. Loaded up Reaper, took 2 minutes, and it only took that long because I forgot I needed to set up a MIDI HW Send. Loaded up Cakewalk, took a minute, no separate HW Send required. Loaded up LIVE!, same, except for some reason won't record Program Changes. I'll figure that out someday if I ever need to do it. I suggest that you first get your Helix sending the proper messages, verify that S1 is getting them using the MIDI Monitor, then go over to the S1 Forum and ask somebody how to make it record and play back MIDI. I hate S1, only bought it because I was helping someone get Amplitube MIDI working and the crippled trial doesn't allow 3rd party plugins. AARGH!!! Good Luck!

I can't really help with this, as I take my bass straight up with an eq chaser and a touch of compression and room reverb. Here's some possibly helpful links: How to Mic a Bass Cabinet: 5 Quick Tips (calmfrogrecording.com) How to Mic a Bass Guitar Amp for Live and Recording - Range of Sounds DialingInYourTone.pdf (redwirez.com)

On the subject of preamps vs full amp models. I know you asked for some solid scientific amp stuff, but bottom line is, how does it SOUND? Try it both ways. Some of the preamps sound kind of thin by themselves, and might need eq/gain blocks. Some of the full amps sound better than the preamps. Probably depends a lot on the RW amp you're putting them through. Your .50 cal is not a whole lot like my Tweaker15. The advantage (disadvantage?) of full amp models is that there's a baked in speaker impedance curve based on the speaker it was modeled with (the default speaker if you choose amp+cab). TBH I'm not sure I understand all that impedance curve stuff. I know that you're also over on TGP, so you've probably read James Freeman's thoughts on the subject. I tried his eq settings for faux impedance curve and thought...huh? Speaking of James Freeman, you should definitely ask him about the scientific amp stuff. He probably even has graphs and charts :-)

Keep in mind that: a) those pedals, more than any other type of effect except maybe WAH, are made to go between the guitar and the amp input. IF you had a full-fat Helix with 4 FX loops, a possible advantage of putting them in a third fx loop could be if you prefer your OD/Distortions AFTER your WAH, and want to use a Helix WAH vs adding a real one before Helix. See below for the drawbacks to that. b) the FX Loop is known to add a small amount of noise. ODs/Distortions in an fx loop will emphasize that noise, NOT attenuate it. Also, my Crybaby 535Q sounded awful in the HXS fx loop. Also, now you've got 3 fx loops/3x the latency/8ms end to end vs 6ms. 10ms is generally considered the threshold for HEARING latency. Some people claim to be able to FEEL 2ms. YMMV. c) keeping the ODs/Distortions between the guitar and Helix allows you to use the Noise Gate on the Input Block to quiet them down without needing to use an extra block for that purpose.