BBD_123

In this spirit, another way to make the 5150 tone explode is to use the LA Comp instead of a distortion pedal: High Gain comp.hlx

The problem with this is that the only valid comparison you can make is with the real Rat and 5150. The VSTs you have been using are not going to offer the fidelity of modeling you are getting from Helix, so what you did with them has literally no bearing on how Helix behaves. You don't (IIRC) actually have an AX8, but rather referenced Englund's patches (details unspecified in the clip IIRC) so we don't know exactly what he did. Once again, this invalidates the comparison you are trying to make. All through, this is an apples and oranges situation which simply does not support a strong statement such as 'something is wrong with Hx gain staging'.

The first (A) is your preset! Sorry, I thought that was clear. The second (B) works best with the A path split at 50 / 50, just as I left it. The problem seems to be that the Rat pushes the front end of the 5150 too hard and causes unmusical distortion. So the obvious (only?) way round this is to use the A path split as shown - you get to keep your Rat settings and you hear something of the pedal's voice through the amp without the excessive distortion that arises from straight serial routing. Literally *all* I did was to take your patch and split path A. It is the barest of bare bones. Working with the amp tone stack as well as the Rat might get you closer to where you want to be. As might continuing the patch to its (still absolutely bare bones) conclusion: High Gain BBD 2.hlx Something else I'd consider really carefully is the choice of pedal. The Rat may simply not work with the 5150 (IRL as well as in the Helix modeled environment). As Phil_M suggested quite early on, why not try a different pedal? Like him, I'd suggest starting with the Klon / Minotaur. Crank the tone up a bit and see how you get on. Again, hope this helps.

Interestingly, it seems that the At The Gates tone didn't pair the HM-2 up with a tube amp at all (my bold):

Please, do give it a go - it's a significant improvement. If you like it, I'll show you the rest of the trick :-)

Interesting. So the gain staging in the 5150 is okay after all...?

The reason people return Helix is that they cannot get it to do what they want. The usual reason for this is that they do not understand *how* to get it to do what they want. What happens next is the core issue, not nationality or elective returns policies adopted by retailers. Human nature being what it is, there is a strong temptation to blame the tools rather than oneself. You could argue that it is more prevalent among younger people in affluent countries who have grown up with an acculturated sense of entitlement which predisposes them not to blame themselves when things go wrong. Whatever the case, the tendency to blame Helix when the root of the problem is user inexperience is unfortunate, and all too common.

Kylotan I've had a listen to what you've posted, including the AX vs HX clip and there's a possible solution. Here's an A / B where the only parameter change I made to your original patch was to lower the output block gain from +6dB to the default 0 dB: A Here is your original Rat into 5150. High Gain Kylo.hlx B And now with a Path A split. High Gain BBD.hlx To my ears, the rat bite and the 5150 integrate a bit better when the 5150 preamp isn't pushed out of its comfort zone by the pedal. But I didn't turn your pedal settings down in patch B. So best of both worlds, but as ever, YMMV. Hope this helps.

My comment wasn't an insult, Kylotan. You need to read harder.

I strongly suspect the reason is that the Helix is accurately modelling the amp's gain stage, in sharp contrast to the stuff you are used to using. What is probably happening is that you are using models of amps you've never played then trying to dial them in unrealistically and stick distortion in front of them because that works with a bunch of VSTs that you have. Unsurprisingly, it sounds crap but this is no fault of Helix. I suspect you don't really know what you are doing.

I'd be surprised if you needed it with the Joe Bartons. AFAIK it's really for silly-hot humbuckers of the metal persuasion. It should be enough if you do what Dunedin suggests (per Sadites) and cut the overbite with your careful choice of cab and mic and mic distance, and if necessary a further high cut with a PEQ rather than the speaker block. You can use the Hi/Lo Cut EQ block instead of the PEQ if you want, as it has the same steep cut IIRC.

This ^ ^ ^ ^ Although I wouldn't put a distortion in front of a high gain amp as this defeats purpose of high gain amps. But there is no doubt that splitting the path so that you hit the amp with a mix of clean and distorted inputs absolutely does bring the sound alive. Helix signal path routing is a revelation if you haven't delved into it:

Perhaps they got fed up with all the moaning and tool-blaming. Then don't use it. Moaning about it isn't going to change anything except the way other commenters regard you.

I use the Helix with everything from a JB like you and Duncan Distortions to low-wind boutique PAF clones. All are fine, although if you have your JB or DD bridge right up close to the strings they will sound horrible: screechy in the upper registers and congested when chording. There needs to be some clear air between strings and poles. Don't use 1Mohm input impedance with hot pickups, use Auto.

Read the sticky at the top of the thread entitled 'Why is L6 not responding?' This is a USER FORUM. If you want to talk to L6 then it's support ticket or Ideascale. NOT whinging here. So if you do post moans here about how your inability to dial in your Helix is somehow a hardware fault, other commenters are justified in treating it as trolling. No tinfoil required.

Normally I'd object to comments like this, but there's something just not quite right at the moment. Too many threads like these.

Not that I know about - you just have to go through them and make sure that all blocks after the speakers are stereo, not mono (pick from the block menu and check for the interlinked circles 'half-Audi' stereo symbol next to the block device name).

And he's right :-) Not always so much use live, but enormous fun for practice and recording.

All this time I spent learning the back panel, blindfold, by touch, like soldiers are trained to field strip their rifles... all for nothing! But seriously, great idea. L6 should put a sticker like that in the box :-)

And what HonestOpinion said: To me, 'fizz' is nasty, digital-sounding artifacts arising from too much gain/distortion, but often as not exacerbated by too much treble and presence in the amp tone stack. Sorting out which is whatziz requires full and detailed disclosure of the troubled setup, from pickup through patch to monitors, as HO emphasises. Which is why I was a bit impatient with a recent commenter who basically refused to provide this absolutely necessary information.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ THIS.

I watched the vid and set up the patch as demonstrated over the weekend. I though it was pretty good, actually. Perhaps I should have said so sooner :-) Good enough to save as a template for further use.

Unfortunately, yes. But only because - despite repeated, polite requests - you refuse to provide the information about your patch(es) *necessary* to sorting out whatever mess it is you've got yourself into. So since you will not contribute constructively to solving your problems, you should stop posting about them. It's a waste of everybody's time.

+1

^ ^ ^ ^ Well worth considering. Stereo is such fun :-) And big studio monitors are LOUD.