New Firmware Expectations

[DeanDinosaur]

No disrespect to ya mate, but I have an Axe 2 as well as the MFC, compared to my HD500, we are talking night and day, nothing wrong with buying on a budget, and the HD is a superb piece of gear. But saying it's overpriced is the same as me asking you what guitars you have. A Fender or a copy? a Gibson or a copy? It is for pro musicians, ........., it is very pricey, firmware updates are regular and sounds are always improving.

 

 

Non taken pal. The bottom line: HD is more than good enough for any professional otherwise Steve Howe and many more professional working musicians wouldn't be using it. You clearly said what I said exactly: the AXE II is pricey but keeps improving. I've been hearing this since AXE I that it keeps improving, yet it's always so good almost identical to  plugging into an amp.  It's not and never will be, nor is the Kemper or any modeling device.

 

What's being modeled is the sound of a MICED amp. AMP will always sound different regardless whether it's better or worse. If you want the sound of a tube amp, you get a tube amp,. you want the sound of a miced tube amp you get a modeler. If you have HD500 plus DT50 you have the best of both worlds and the difference between that and and AXI II or a kemper is truly night and day difference. If you get HD with DT amp,  You get real tube Amp for LIVE use with guitar speakers and also the option of so many different amp sounds and effects, and better yet money to spear. Kemper or AXII two don't give you that, if you want to use them with real tube amps,you're on you're on, it might work and it might not, POD and DT amp is an unbeatable combo because they're customized to work with each other.

[SjPedro]

how did a "firmware expectations" thread turn into a HD500 vs Axe FXII thread? Not enough of those already?  ;)

No, but seriously folks: 

Axe Fx sounds better? 

..maybe

Is it more expensive? 

Most definitely

 

Let's just all agree to disagree and that the beauty of the sound is in the ear of the beholder and also this: budget goes a long way. I would never spend the 3k worth of the axe fx rack plus 1k or so for the controller and extra stuff so I could get the sound I would like. I love the sounds I get from the HD500X I own and I am perfectly happy with it. Hopefully, all of us can find the sound satisfaction we are looking for.

 

 

Back to topic: I would love to get on the next firmware update some extra amp models: namely the Mesa Boogie Mark IV or V. Hell..I would be happy with the return of the prodigal son Mark II C+ 

Also I think adding a metronome could be useful for practicing.

Other than that, I am happy :) 

[talwilkins]

how did a "firmware expectations" thread turn into a HD500 vs Axe FXII thread? Not enough of those already?  ;)

No, but seriously folks: 

 

Axe Fx sounds better? 

..maybe

Is it more expensive? 

Most definitely

 

Let's just all agree to disagree and that the beauty of the sound is in the ear of the beholder and also this: budget goes a long way. I would never spend the 3k worth of the axe fx rack plus 1k or so for the controller and extra stuff so I could get the sound I would like. I love the sounds I get from the HD500X I own and I am perfectly happy with it. Hopefully, all of us can find the sound satisfaction we are looking for.

 

 

Back to topic: I would love to get on the next firmware update some extra amp models: namely the Mesa Boogie Mark IV or V. Hell..I would be happy with the return of the prodigal son Mark II C+ 

Also I think adding a metronome could be useful for practicing.

Other than that, I am happy :)

 

I agree with all you say. The only problem is that you also misinterpret the reason for this thread. This was not supposed to be a thread to tell what you would like to see in the next update but what you expect L6 to put in it. Hence the "Expectations" part. ;)

There are plenty of threads about wishes, no need for more. :)

 

Let us know what you expect!

[SjPedro]

I actually DO expect the Mesa models coming out..The metronome is the wish part  :P

I expect the Mesa stuff because the last we saw those was back on the Xt Live if I am not mistaken and it would be good to have the HD modelling we have access to now with those specific amp models

[wnxwakko]

Line 6 should be pushing firmware updates once a month, but instead they are slowing steering loyal users to other products IMO.  I've had Line 6 amps for several years but was disappointed with them all overtime because the updates never came, features they could easily add never happened, new sounds were never added which seemed to defeat the whole purpose of having a digital amp that let you update it.  Why make an amp you can update with new stuff if your not going to update it.     Last firmware update was a year ago for the POD and quite frankly that is sad.

 

Line 6 should get with the program.    Their guitars are probably nice, but that means being locked into equipment that's not going to be updated often.  Line 6 is a bigger company and are more than capable of hiring say 3-5 good people on a team that do nothing but focus on modeling more amps/cabs/effects and pushing POD updates.   Charge a little more for the equipment and they will get it if they did this.  

 

POD's are great for live playing, recording they are ok in a few genre categories but are limited in amp/cab/effect options and routing capabilities.  The band "Yes" may be using the POD, but they are more outdated themselves than the POD so not a great example.    In a recording situation which I am as a studio musician, the controller board isn't something I require and just for the record, the POD HD Pro doesn't come one either which I was making my comparison to.

 

I would love to see Line 6 refocus themselves on their POD's because if they did, I think they could take over.  Sadly they stopped short.  

[Guitarmaniac64]

Line 6 should be pushing firmware updates once a month, but instead they are slowing steering loyal users to other products IMO.  I've had Line 6 amps for several years but was disappointed with them all overtime because the updates never came, features they could easily add never happened, new sounds were never added which seemed to defeat the whole purpose of having a digital amp that let you update it.  Why make an amp you can update with new stuff if your not going to update it.     Last firmware update was a year ago for the POD and quite frankly that is sad.

 

Line 6 should get with the program.    Their guitars are probably nice, but that means being locked into equipment that's not going to be updated often.  Line 6 is a bigger company and are more than capable of hiring say 3-5 good people on a team that do nothing but focus on modeling more amps/cabs/effects and pushing POD updates.   Charge a little more for the equipment and they will get it if they did this.  

 

POD's are great for live playing, recording they are ok in a few genre categories but are limited in amp/cab/effect options and routing capabilities.  The band "Yes" may be using the POD, but they are more outdated themselves than the POD so not a great example.    In a recording situation which I am as a studio musician, the controller board isn't something I require and just for the record, the POD HD Pro doesn't come one either which I was making my comparison to.

 

I would love to see Line 6 refocus themselves on their POD's because if they did, I think they could take over.  Sadly they stopped short.  

 

 

How can a band be outdated??

 

Thats the most stupid comment i ever read is Beatles or Elvis outdated?

They have written songs that will stay in peoples mind forever unlike many band that is popular today.

And b.t.w they where doing records when the recording method was the good old fashion way.

A.k.a record guitar with a real amp miced up and then recorded to a reel to reel recorder.

And the album was released on vinyl and casettetape.

Unlike today where you can have unlimited tracks and it is recorded digital on a computer.

And then you can modify every single thing you record to beyond recognition.

Hell you dont even have to sing in tune anymore or being able to play well on your instrument.

 

That was needed back then if you could not play or sing no way you could do a record.

Unless you had very good friends and was very rich.

 

Today you only need the looks no talent required.

 

I take that bands that use Line 6 do it beacuse they like the sounds of the unit.

 

When we talk about AXE FX II and users that are stars.

Vai and Petrucci only use the effects on the AXE not the amp-modeling they use real amps instead.

 

I dont know about other famouse uses that use AXE FX but i guess most have real amps and use it for effects only.

Petrucci did record the demo songs at home using a "cloned" a.k.a (tonematching) model of his Mesa MK V on the AXE FX.

 

But when it came to actually do the record he used the REAL Mesa MK V amp not the AXE if AXE was so good why use a real amp in the studio?.

[medbad5150]

ha ha 'Yes' outdated..! They will still be rocking when Bieber is doing rehab reality shows!

[DeanDinosaur]

Line 6 should be pushing firmware updates once a month....

 

 

I would love to see Line 6 refocus themselves on their POD's because if they did, I think they could take over.  Sadly they stopped short. ...

I'm all for improving products by firmware, but once a month specifically for a modeler is ridiculous for one reason: having to rework patches every time an update comes out isn't something I would enjoy doing. Sometimes with new updates, previous patches will never sound the same, that's why many working musicians don't even bother with updates. If anyone can't get the POD, or any modeler to sound good, I highly doubt that an update will change that. Still I think line6  should update more often than once a year.

 

Regarding line 6 taking over, line 6 actually are dominating in their target market at the price range of under $500. The demographic for HD500 at less than $500 is very different than that of AXII at over $3000 with a controller. Based on what I've seen on the gear page and other forums, a huge chunk of AXE II demographics are hobbyists who love to spend time editing patches and reworking them with every update, even discussing the small detail of how each update changed the sound while some don't agree that the update changed their patches!

I don't have sales figure but it's clear that the market for a 3k modeler is fraction of of that under $500.

 

Getting back to topic, I think the next update will be a significant update. Since the last update was almost a year ago, my guess is that line 6 is saving the update to when new major competitors release new products. We all know Digitech is working on something, if that ever gets released, what better time than that would be for line 6 to release a massive update!  Then you have Revavler 4 in beta, releasing a POD Farm HD that hopefully is free with HD hardware would be a very smart answer from Line 6. I Know these things are coming, but to dominate a market, timing is critical. so I think the timing of the next update could be linked to competitors releasing new modeling products.

[joel_brown]

Gee all I want is a Global EQ and I'd think the PODHD was perfect.  I'm a working musician plus have plenty of studio experiance doing music recording for TV that's been heard worldwide.  I'd rather not have so many updates so I can practice and perform more.

 

This statement will get me some hate mail.  Maybe if some of you wannabe guitar players posting on here would stop whining about updates and learn how to tweak what you have and play the guitar better, then you wouldn't have to rely so much on updates.

[arislaf]

Expect connection between jtv 2.0 and pod...

[toneman2121]

ha ha 'Yes' outdated..! They will still be rocking when Bieber is doing rehab reality shows!

YES

[alsithi]

The most obvious expectation must surely be that the HD500 should be able to do everything ( and more) that it's smaller siblings can, and as I understand it this is not the case.

 

The HD500 has a number of seperate outputs but only 1 mode, and I believe I am correct in thinking the 400 has 2?

 

Personally I would like the ability to use the 8 footswitches to access individual patches, rather than just the 4 currently assigned.

[phil_m]

Why in the world would any modeling product need monthly updates? That's just absurd, if you ask me. Cliff may be able to do that for the Axe FX, but it still seems like it would be more of a nuisance than anything. What on earth is he constantly changing? It's like the George Lucas method of creating... Step away from the computer, man... Step away...

[wnxwakko]

Again, Line 6 falls short and firmware updates should add more amps/cabs/effects on a regular basis.   I am not saying they should change existing amps/cabs unless there is a bug so not to change your sound.   What they should be doing is building on it and adding more amps/cabs/effects with each update.   Monthly updates to keep adding all the configuration options people want.    Line 6 stopped adding more a year ago, they haven expanded any options.  Out of the 5 updates they provided since 2011, only 2 added anything new.  Spider IV and POD X3 had only 1 update adding anything new and for the both of which I own and used.   So to get anything new I had to buy yet another piece of equipment, POD HD which follows the same path.   Maybe, just maybe they will add one more thing new to the POD HD, however seeing its aging now, most likely POD HD X is where the next update will be and might even be exclusive to that forcing everyone to buy yet more equipment.

 

Each song might require a different amp/cab combination and so options are important.   I don't spend hours tweaking my settings.   I dial something up that sounds good in about 10 minutes, mixing/matching two amps and two different cabs and whatever effects I'm after.   Record my song, then reamp via SPDIF in/out and make the necessary adjustments to make it sit well in the mix.   If you want to reamp and maintain the best quality sound with almost no latency, you need both the In and the Out of SPDIF.  The POD 500 doesn't give you that, so it requires the POD HD PRO which again, I've been comparing to.   When I was looking to buy the POD HD Pro, I did alot of research.

 

POD HD Pro = Single Processor / 25 Amps / 16 cabs / 2 chains, 8 effect blocks

Eleven Rack = Single Processor / 26 Amps / 15 cabs / 1 chain, I believe its 11 effect blocks

AXE FX II = Dual Processor / 94 Amps / 132 Cabs / 4 chains, 48 effect blocks

 

I hope Line 6 reads posts like this and maybe it will trigger a discussion to improve on their strategy so more affordable gear can be released and lower prices.  I would love to spend less money for a POD if it could deliver the versatility.  If Line 6 would bring the device up to a decent par, I would trade in for it.  Even if they released a new POD HD PROX with 10 new amps, I would be skeptical based on the track record with Spider and X3 but it would be a start.   If they expanded the block chain and boosted the processors to handle it, I would buy in.       

[Zombieslayer5P]

I am chomping at the bit myself for new amp models, but I would still welcome improvements to the existing ones.  One thing I have always noticed is that the highs when distorted (esp in high gain models) tends to sound as though there's some sort of white noise generator being used so create it, making them sound hissy/fizzy.  I'd like to see this worked on so that the distortion characteristics give a proper crunch or pissed-off-hornet sound on the high end.  If L6 were to do this, I could see it being feasible to give an option to future firmware updates where you can choose to either download the update and update the existing models, or download an update that will leave them as is if you already like them as they are, as well as a way to change between the two if, say, you updated the existing models, but changed your mind and want to go back to the original existing models.  But this is just my 2 cents.

[medbad5150]

Why in the world would any modeling product need monthly updates? That's just absurd, if you ask me. Cliff may be able to do that for the Axe FX, but it still seems like it would be more of a nuisance than anything. What on earth is he constantly changing? It's like the George Lucas method of creating... Step away from the computer, man... Step away...

I think I added before, updated my Axe to 11.00,but before the week was out it was on 11.03, yeah it improves but still a pain sometimes as patches are affected, most good but some bad.

 

Firmware updates..be careful what you wish for!

[kdog]

Line 6 should be pushing firmware updates once a month, but instead they are slowing steering loyal users to other products IMO. 

This is a moronic expectation. L6 sells a MUCH greater volume of product than Fractal, they also sell a much wider range of products (how many just slightly different HD units are there? How many AxeFx 2 models?). Most users are likely practical consumers who are NOT caught up in constant internet p*ssing contests, they are just looking for a musical tool, finding one that works and getting on with their life. Monthly F/W updates that added or changed significant features would be a nightmare and a huge cost for L6 from a support standpoint (repeat after me: they are a business). Fractal can do it because they have a tiny user base virtually all of whom are completely bonkers about the gear just waiting to flash the next update, redial all their patches, and then jump on the net and talk about how much "better" their unit is now (even though they would have defended it to the death as being nearly flawless before the update). 

 

That said. I think L6 HAS been too slow with F/W updates. I think they should add new models and features to their products more regularly than they have to reach a happy medium. I think twice a year should be their goal.

 

My personal top things would be:

• Global EQ
• Fix existing EQs or add new ones. EQ is frequency not %. The existing EQs are nearly unusable without notes or a guide
• Loadable Cab IRs (convolution cab FX block).

Those three things would make the HD a legitimate Fractal competitor, IMHO. The flexibility and "unlimited" feeling you get with AxeFx is pretty excellent/glorious the signal chain model is amazing. But, honestly, that can be worked around, it is more of a convenience/workflow thing. Tonally, those three things stand in the way of making tones on the HDs that are in the Axe class. IMHO. Along with CPU resource, which they are addressing with new hardware.

 

And of course, everyone loves a couple of new amps and FX, those give the users a feeling of moving forward.

 

Full Disclosure: I own both an AxeFx and a POD HD.

[KozMcCharlie]

The thing that could REALLY use an update is the effects. Most of them anyway. Some of them are just blatently unusable due to poor modeling.

[scheater5]

@kdog nailed it.  I have the exact same three gripes about the HD500, and so I've been heavily eyeballing an Axe Fx and that definitely describes the community.  Anything Cliff does is gospel and perfect - including his improvements (but wasn't it perfect?). 

 

If Line 6 doesn't get a move on, I'm going to make the leap anyway because the product is right.  But I'd rather stay with Line 6 and this community.

[spaceatl]

kdog, I thought you were waiting for the Sonic Maximizer model?  :D

[gunpointmetal]

Anybody no where the Pro has gone off too...can't find it on Sweetwater or Musicians Friend....Pro X? Maybe?

[meambobbo]

have you guys seen the ideascale site.  not exactly encouraging - all the top items could be predicted, and there are 0 in review, in progress, or completed.  i have a feeling hd bean/pro x are around the corner and there'll be a lot of development to get everything functioning right.  sometimes they'll try to sweeten such purchases by expanding the nbr of available models or other salivatory firmware updates.

 

i'm just not getting my hopes up at this point.

[scheater5]

IdeaScale is a joke.  The community is here, not there.  It's a poorly designed site, and so fewer people use it, and so it is a less accurate representation of the community.  I gave it the old college try and couldn't stand it.  The tons of spam email it sent me did not do it any favors with regards to my opinion (and that's what it is - my opinion. take it for what it's worth)

[TheRealZap]

so much unimportant crap floated to the top....

just because they have vocal minorities... not to mention...

not all musicians are even online so that's just a sampling of the online percentage.

 

i'm positive they intend to do something with that info...

but i hope they weight it appropriately...

for example some of the lowest ranked crap might be bugs....

because if it's not staring you in the face, you won't care enough to vote it up.

 

have you guys seen the ideascale site.  not exactly encouraging - all the top items could be predicted, and there are 0 in review, in progress, or completed.  i have a feeling hd bean/pro x are around the corner and there'll be a lot of development to get everything functioning right.  sometimes they'll try to sweeten such purchases by expanding the nbr of available models or other salivatory firmware updates.

 

i'm just not getting my hopes up at this point.

[Akeron]

On Ideascale I see some uninteresting\undoable (the accent is on undoable!) ideas have many "points" and there are lots of "disagree" on other ideas without even explaining why do they think that was a bad idea, so you don't know what the problem is. I frankly can't see the point of it! How useful is this? What happen when an impossible idea get 5000 votes? Maybe they will send a teddy bear to the OP with the t-shirt "Impossible idea of the month"...

[meambobbo]

Ur absolutely correct esp in consideration of the only thing that matters: it has no search feature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WHAT

 

as far as disagreeing on how ideascale ranks ideas, well i have respect for people who really attempt to make it work. I went through pretty much all of them. Im not voting anyones ideas down unless it makes no sense or is just some subjective rant. Ill vote up all the issues i have and some features i want. I wanted to make some new ones but saw pretty much everything i would want

 

If i disagree with the rankings, i accept that and i dont really care how l6 ranks them internally. But they need to act. It feels like theres no one running the company. Just products out the wazoo all with quirks and deficiencies while doing other things very well. The line needs to be thought of as far from mature and greatly expanded on before new competitors enter

 

so much unimportant crap floated to the top....

just because they have vocal minorities... not to mention...

not all musicians are even online so that's just a sampling of the online percentage.

 

i'm positive they intend to do something with that info...

but i hope they weight it appropriately...

for example some of the lowest ranked crap might be bugs....

because if it's not staring you in the face, you won't care enough to vote it up.

[toneman2121]

at this point i'm not expecting an update at all

[medbad5150]

ha ha...we'll get world peace first

[DeanDinosaur]

There will be an update after digitech releases their new modeler/FX processor. It would be too late because digitech don't mess around releasing anything short of a final complete product. I predict that when Digitech releases the new modeler, there will be amp modelers for less than $100 that have USB recording and amp modeling that rivals those of the HD PRO at ten times the price. Further more the Digitech modeler,  at less than one hundred dollars, will have the option of paying to download additional amps and effects similar to amplitube custom shop.  

[toneman2121]

Further more the Digitech modeler,  at less than one hundred dollars,

 

let me know when it's released

[DeanDinosaur]

digitech  confirmed that they're working on something to follow up the RP series.Currently RP55 is less than $50 has twelve amps plus effects that are on par if not better than POD X3 modeling. I'll make sure I'll let you know when the POD HD killer from Digitech is released :ph34r:  

[toneman2121]

thank you

[Rewolf48]

Ur absolutely correct esp in consideration of the only thing that matters: it has no search feature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WHAT

 

as far as disagreeing on how ideascale ranks ideas, well i have respect for people who really attempt to make it work. I went through pretty much all of them. Im not voting anyones ideas down unless it makes no sense or is just some subjective rant. Ill vote up all the issues i have and some features i want. I wanted to make some new ones but saw pretty much everything i would want

 

If i disagree with the rankings, i accept that and i dont really care how l6 ranks them internally. But they need to act. It feels like theres no one running the company. Just products out the wazoo all with quirks and deficiencies while doing other things very well. The line needs to be thought of as far from mature and greatly expanded on before new competitors enter

 

+1

 

I agree with all of this - the voting and down voting especially. I get the impression that some people were down voting other peoples ideas in order to get their own higher ranked, and because it is anonymous they can do so with impunity.

 

The most important part is that Line 6 have to be seen to be doing something with it - even if it is only  getting someone to merge the duplicates and make it look like they are being reviewed. At the moment it just looks like a way of getting people to dump rants that they don't want to know about.

[DeanDinosaur]

Further more the Digitech modeler,  at less than one hundred dollars,

 

let me know when it's released

Digitech just released Element and Element XP as update to the RP series. According to Digitech Rep, the algorithms for FX have been upgraded but AMP modeling didn't for these entry Level units. He hinted that in the next couple of weeks there will be updates to the other RP series and AMP  Modeling will be upgraded also. Unfortunately, the Upgraded amp modeling will be available at the more than one hundred dollar units. So it's a couple of weeks before the competition will heat up and I bet you that soon after that there will be a massive update to the line 6 HD series. Who knows we might jump to Pod HD 3.0. I expect that update to address so many of user requests and many will be pleasantly surprised.

 

That was a summary of what I read here:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1324883&page=2

[toneman2121]

I also heard thru the poison ivy vine that the eagles were actually not going to suck this year... :D

they actually suck