Helix Native Software CPU Hog Pro Tools 12.7.1 HD 12 core Mac Pro

[bigbuddy3]

Hi,

 

Playing with Helix Native Software -Cpu consistently hitting over 50%. some patches spiked to 100%

Running:

MAC Pro 12 core  2.93 48gig Ram 

OSX Sierra. 10.12.5

Pro tools  12.7.1 Native HD- Pci.   Newest Avid Audio Interface

Only 1 Audio Track and 1 Master track in session

 

I tired various playback settings, any thing over 256 has too much delay,

This seems to be a cpu hog  you'll need to be creative if you want to use in full song sessions with VI

 

Anyone else have CPU  performance to share?

Software sounds good, not sure if i will purchase

 

Thanks

[phil_m]

Well that's not typical...

 

On my Windows 10 machine with much less impressive specs than your Mac (i7, 16gb of RAM), one instance of Native will occasionally cause the CPU meter to hit 3% in Reaper... On Facebook, I think one guy had like 16 instances running at once.

 

So I don't know what's causing the high CPU usage on your machine. I would suggest opening a support ticket.

[davidclayson]

I'm using it with Pro Tools 12 on a fairly moderately spec'd Mac - i5 processor, (24GB RAM for what it's worth) and can only use with a 256 sample buffer! Any thing lower has terrible clicks and pops, with the CPU maxing out easily. To compare, I tried using with GarageBand (latest version) as don't have Logic X or any other DAW, whilst I don't know the buffer size of GarageBand uses and seems theres no way to check or change, it feels okay to play (and no clicks or pops). In PT12 at 256 samples, it feels almost unplayable for me with input monitoring (using a pretty fast Thunderbolt interface too), GarageBand, not so much.

 

All this considered (as well as being the only track and only plugin being used on either DAW), maybe this is a Pro Tools specific bug/problem? Any other PT users able to comment?

[rd2rk]

i7 HP Envy Laptop,Win10,16GB,SSD -

 

Focusrite 18i20 latest drivers - 256/48 down to 64/48 no pops or clicks

 

Ableton Live 9 Intro project with SGear,TH3,DPRO,EZKEYS,EZDrummer.

 

Added Native, CPU doubled from 8% to 16% (at 126/48). Dropped to 64/48, CPU at 20%

 

A/B with corresponding Helix Floor presets, I can't tell the difference. I've only tried a couple, but so far, so good.

[rd2rk]

After playing some more (with clean presets), I had to go back up to 128. CPU now around 18%. But it wasn't just Native making noise, it was overall.

[mmerc2]

I'm also having performance issues after installing Native.  I'm using an 8 core 4Ghz processor and 32G of RAM.  I've not had any performance issues since this computer was built a few months ago.  Running Cubase 9 pro.  After installing Native I immediately got clicks and pops and sound dropping out.  When I enabled a track to record with Native as a plugin, ALL the sound dropped out after I hit the monitor button on that track. Zero audio output.  I could see all the meters on the tracks working, so sound was going through, but the only way to hear it through the monitors was to disable the "monitor" button on that track....which makes it hard  to record because I can't hear any sound from the track I'm recording. I even tried to just record without the monitor, just going by what I could hear acoustically from the electric guitar, but it kept freezing up and giving me an error that the audio had dropped out while recording.  After I disabled all the Native plugins on the tracks, the problem went away.  I LOVE the plugin and I'm excited about it, but it's not really usable on a regular basis currently. I would need to figure out how to resolve this in the next two weeks before I'd be confident purchasing after the trial is up.

 

Mike

[spikey]

Some kind of poor example but here goes..., When Propellerhead added VST support a few months ago to Reason, we could not run any UAD plugins on it then without lag, messages and huge latency. The software would just "stop running" when a UAD plugin was used. Guess what- We still can't. They (Propellerhead) were discussing this with UAD and "suggested" it was UAD that was the blame for this (even if the UAD plugins currently work just fine and run well on Cubase, Logic X, etc etc on my end). I am not the only with this issue. There have been some updates, but not much of a peep that I've seen in a solution or fix yet on this issue from Propellerhead. Back to Native- My point is that it may take time to iron out some issues "and just because some companies won't admit there are issues, they do indeed know about um".

[Acel6]

Same thing here. Mac Pro 3.5 GHz 6 core. Cubase 8. Most presets use more than 50% of the cpu. Doesn't seem usable right now.

[bobthedog]

Logic pro x 12 core mac pro with a Apollo Duo interface. 44.1K

 

Note for pc owners: cpu readings on macs are % of a logical core, so this machine has 24 logical cores and a max cpu reading of 2400%

So 50% cpu on a 4 core mac would read as 6.25% on a pc and on a 12 core mac would read 2% on a pc.

 

Logic Pro 1 audio track record enabled 5.4%

Add helix with default patch Factory 1/01A 

 

32 buffer = 54.9%

64 buffer = 35.8%

128 buffer = 35.5%

256 buffer = 35.2%

512 buffer = 35.7%

1024 buffer = 34.4%

 

 

8 tracks with default 01A patch, record enabled on all tracks

 

32 buffer = 248,5%

64 buffer = 219.4%

128 buffer = 198.3%

256 buffer = 188.2%

512 buffer = 181.8%

1024 buffer = 179.7%

 

 

At 32 buffer (4 ms in to out) I get no crackles at all.

 

 

For playback test I set the buffer to 128 (8.8 ms in to out) and  duplicated the tracks until I heard crackles, here it managed 37 tracks with cpu of 900%

 

The maximum tracks I could get at 1024 buffer was 45 tracks with 1017% cpu.

 

So I don’t think the cpu is that bad, I am sure they could improve it a bit but it isn’t causing this machine any problems with that patch.

 

Does anyone have a problem patch from the factory bank I could test?

[skyfirez1]

I think yer problem is you're using a girls computer. Macs are for chicks

[zooey]

Nothing but Gentoo for you, eh sky ;)

[Hedon09]

I'm having kind of similar issues.

 

I run Native in Studio One Pro 3.51 with an i7-7700 Quadcore 2,8 GHz and 32 GB. Interface is a Presonus Studio 68 at 48 kHz.

 

Opening a blank session, only one mono-audio-track. CPU at 3-4%. As soon as I open a Native Instance the CPU jumps to 50% Minimum and is frantically jumping around up to 100% in peaks.

As soon as I turn of Native the issue is gone. Increasing buffer size helps but does not really solve the problem (still around 30% CPU).

 

Any Ideas anyone or do I simply have to wait for future fixes?

 

By the way, Helix sounds exactly like my LT and Helix Floor. Did a High Gain-Side-by-Side-Comparison. No audible difference. Looking forward to a fixed Release

[vertibration]

Can anyone check to see if the reverb effect causes the CPU spikes?  

[Hedon09]

Negative...simple High Gain patch

 

Tubscreamer > Noise Gate > Mark IV > IR Block > Parametric EQ

[rinkydink]

29% here. 2 audio tracks, 1 instrument track. Loaded different patches, the same CPU hike.

PT 12.8 (HDX)

Mac Pro 6 core

Buffer size: 512

64 gig ram

OS 10.12.5

 

Very concerned about this CPU issue as well.

[vertibration]

Using Ableton Live 9 (latest version), Macbook pro 2011 16BG ram, SSD OSX Sierra

 

I get around 22-27% CPU on a pretty basic patch running an amp, cab, and a couple of effects.  

 

When recording, I have to start freezing tracks to improve my workflow.  Frankly, I am impressed.  However, the CPU load makes me wanna say %$^# it, I would rather spring for an LT to not have to deal with the strain of this plugin.  It hampers my workflow having to freeze tracks.

[rd2rk]

Sure seems like mostly MAC folks having problems. Maybe Native doesn't play well with MACs?

[bobthedog]

As I can run 45 tracks of Helix on my Mac I don't think it is a general mac problem. 

 

If mac users can tell me a patch they are having difficulties with I can do some tests here and we can compare the results.

[gsummers]

I'm using it with Pro Tools 12 on a fairly moderately spec'd Mac - i5 processor, (24GB RAM for what it's worth) and can only use with a 256 sample buffer! Any thing lower has terrible clicks and pops, with the CPU maxing out easily. To compare, I tried using with GarageBand (latest version) as don't have Logic X or any other DAW, whilst I don't know the buffer size of GarageBand uses and seems theres no way to check or change, it feels okay to play (and no clicks or pops). In PT12 at 256 samples, it feels almost unplayable for me with input monitoring (using a pretty fast Thunderbolt interface too), GarageBand, not so much.

 

All this considered (as well as being the only track and only plugin being used on either DAW), maybe this is a Pro Tools specific bug/problem? Any other PT users able to comment?

 

I will back you on this. I have a post going on the helix user group on Facebook and it seems most people come back with no issues using other software.  I have only had one person comment they weren't having any issues in Pro tools. Everyone else is using logic or something else.  I am using PT 12 and cannot go below 128.  128 is ok but lower would be better.  Logic runs great at 32! I don't use logic so this is a problem. My band and I collaborate in pro tools 12 so trying to get everyone on another platform just so my workflow can improve is not doable.

[bjnette]

No issues here running 4 or 5 instances in Sonar barely 12% on the i7 second gen CPU.

Must be a Mac issue

[k-grimm403]

I'm running on a Lenovo Yoga X1 laptop (i7 7600U, 16GB RAM) and apollo 8p using reaper I am able to record 4-5 different tracks all with a random different preset instance of helix native on each track before I hit the point where it pops/crackles. Processor says its running at 40-50%, Reaper says about 5% each instance

 

BUT...

 

The very first time I tried to open up helix native(single instance on one track) all I got was a garbled mess of noise and my processor said it was using 50-80% power. After about an hour of trouble shooting I realized that I had my computer set to POWER SAVER power plan on my device Instead of the settings that I set up to UAD recommendations. So I would try to double check your power/processing settings on your PC/Mac and see if it helps at all.

 

I don't have a mac to test the Mac link below but it seems to follow some similar steps to possibly help

 

PC

https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/214430686

 

Mac

https://www.gobbler.com/optimizing-mac-for-music-production/

[musicimpossible]

 Had to crank CPU higher than normal in ProTools to eliminate "crackling". Disconcerting.

[Lachdanan0121]

I am running like 4 instances in a project that I am working on, and my cpu usage in my DAW states only about 25-35% for the whole project.

Win 10. I7-5820K. FL Studio 12.5.

It most definitely is not a cpu hog for me. ASIO is at 512. Can't tell you about the Mac as I would never own that overrated/overpriced Apple crap.

[ShoreProductions]

As I can run 45 tracks of Helix on my Mac I don't think it is a general mac problem. 

 

If mac users can tell me a patch they are having difficulties with I can do some tests here and we can compare the results.

I'd be inclined to agree with you Bob.  I can't help but wonder if part of the OS X issue isn't related to specific DAWs.  Without complete information and a good sample group of users providing all their specifics, it's essentially speculation.

 

That having been said, considering the significant market share for Windblows, it would make sense that there would be more software optimization of the MicroSloth platform.

[Doug6String]

I'm having kind of similar issues.

 

I run Native in Studio One Pro 3.51 with an i7-7700 Quadcore 2,8 GHz and 32 GB. Interface is a Presonus Studio 68 at 48 kHz.

 

Opening a blank session, only one mono-audio-track. CPU at 3-4%. As soon as I open a Native Instance the CPU jumps to 50% Minimum and is frantically jumping around up to 100% in peaks.

As soon as I turn of Native the issue is gone. Increasing buffer size helps but does not really solve the problem (still around 30% CPU).

 

Any Ideas anyone or do I simply have to wait for future fixes?

 

By the way, Helix sounds exactly like my LT and Helix Floor. Did a High Gain-Side-by-Side-Comparison. No audible difference. Looking forward to a fixed Release

Did you ever figure this out?  I have a very similar PC (only diff is 4.2 GHz speed and 16 GB RAM) and use the latest version of Studio One with a Studio 192 and when I use Native it's using 25% of my resources per use.  That's better than your situation, but not workable for any slightly complex song.  I'm not sure if it's Native or Studio One, or both?  Thanks!

[danholloman]

Oh yea its a real pig up to 50% of my resources causing it to stick in the red of max processing. Studio One 3 pro, AMD 10 2,GHz 8 GB ram 500 gig ssd. I can run some crazy heavy soft synths, recorded tracks, and effects no prob, plug in more than one instance of helix and chug glitch glitch, chug glitch glitch, chug, good thing I have the hardware Helix...Hoping they will get this worked out soon. 

[jeremyn]

Logic Pro X on my 2013 MacBook Pro (i7 2.7GHz quad core, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD) goes from a few % CPU usage to two cores fully pegged at 100% when I enable Native. And then Logic Pro X brings up System Overload messages (or glitches if I turn that off). Latest versions of everything. This is just with a pre-recorded track playing back through the in-built headphone jack and nothing else plugged in or running. Buffer size changes help a tiny bit.

 

What helped the most was changing the Logic project sample rate to 48k instead of 44.1k. That let me run some simple presets without glitching. But more complex ones like 24C Royal Duo still barely work at all. The 48k thing is probably related to the inbuilt hardware only supported 48k in hardware, and forcing some sort of software resample (which is clearly problematic) when changed to something else. Even though this helped (and probably worked around one issue), the problem still remains that I can't even run a single instance of Native (with nothing else happening in Logic) for anything but the simplest single Amp+Cab patches.

 

I'm yet to try it with a live external input source like the Helix floor as the interface. There must be a solution here, because it's hard to believe that this CPU/system is deficient. Might be a MacOS related problem, or possibly even a hardware/driver interaction issue since I am using the inbuilt interfaces which use who-knows-what chipsets.

[zooey]

Are people seeing this on Windows too? I use an older laptop for music stuff, if it's CPU heavy it's useless to me. (And no I haven't had a chance to try it, which I should.)

[sd0453]

I'm seeing the same issues with CPU using REAPER. Working on a Mac with plenty of power and have never had this problem using other amp sims. Actually, when I just re-amped some songs with HELIX NATIVE, and had awful glitching/freezing while doing it. I love the sounds I can get with HELIX, but this is really difficult to deal with. Really hoping Line6 can get this fixed in the future, it is very disconcerting. 

[rd2rk]

Just started using Reaper (Sonar orphan). Same configuration (i7, W10) as my previous post. Added 3 instances of Native with factory hi-gain presets to project using S-Gear, DPro (2 instances), EZKeys and EZDrummer. CPU went from 4.5 to 10 max (fluctuates between 6-10).

 

People's results seem to be all over the place on this. This thread is going on 4 months old, be nice to hear from somebody official on this. DI?

[amsdenj]

I’m seeing a pretty large CPU load with Helix Native in MainStage too. Patches with similar capabilities around S-Gear have much lower CPU demand.

[soundog]

Yep, running on Logic Pro X under Sierra, and am having to to freeze tracks. Hopefully Line 6 will work on CPU efficiency after getting V1 out the door. Great piece of software otherwise. Snapshot support would be nice to maintain compatibility with my hardware presets.

[zooey]

So nobody using Windows has this issue? Are there people using Native on Windows who *don't* have it? Or are only Mac folks interested? ...Kidding, just checking...

[soundog]

Mac users are artists and creatives, who push things to the limit. So — we are encountering the issues.

 

Kidding...

[Doug6String]

So nobody using Windows has this issue? Are there people using Native on Windows who *don't* have it? Or are only Mac folks interested? ...Kidding, just checking...

I posted to this in Aug (above).  I Use Win 10 (i7, 4.2 GHz processor, 16 Gb RAM, 64 bit) and Presonus Studio One with a Studio 192. The Presonus forum indicates my issue is more Studio One than Native.  Some where there did some comparisions and while that's one datapoint, he found that Native uses virtually zero resources with some DAWs and a boatload with others so is Native the issue?  It's probably at least part.

 

Each instance of Native uses about 25% of my resources, so after 3-4 tracks I render.  It's a minor inconvenience to be able to go back to a track with the full power of my Helix to work on a tone in a mix.  Of course you can do that with re-amping but this just seems like more fun to me!

 

Even with this issue I love Native and since I mostly record (no gigging), it's a fantastic tool!  And since you haven't tried it yet, I'll add that I did some comparisons of my Helix rack and Native in recordings using the identical presets, etc., and I cannot hear a difference.  Maybe some will disagree with that, but it's my experience using both Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic headphones.

[soundog]

Similarly, I've been using the following workflow using Helix Native, simulating how I'd record and commit guitar tracks if using a real amp and mic(s).

 

1) For a given guitar track, use a mono instance of Native, paying close attention to EQ, levels, and amp settings to get the tone needed for the track. Only use Helix Native effects that a guitarist would typically use before the amp when recording a track to mono (e.g. distortion pedal, wah).

3) When I like how it sits in the mix, I commit and render the mono track to audio (saving the original raw track if needed later for some reason).

4) Remove the Helix plug-in and raw recording, starting fresh with the "amped" guitar track.

4) Add plug-ins to the track as I would for an amped guitar track (e.g. EQ, compression, stereo effects such as delay and reverb).

 

One advantage (other than CPU savings) is to avoid tweaking and changing Helix presets later .... commit and move on. I use this same method for virtual instruments to speed up workflow and save CPUs when mixing.

[yorgo]

I just got Helix native. It sounds great but man did it good cpu. 4 instances was all I could pull up, and that's with one instance of ezd.

I usually have a ton of tracks... 10 of bias fx and other virtual instrument and never any problem..... I'm on a Windows machine i5 4670, 8gb of RAM.

Will additional ram help or is it the chip from and i5 to an i7?

[jeremyn]

I just got Helix native. It sounds great but man did it good cpu. 4 instances was all I could pull up, and that's with one instance of ezd.

I usually have a ton of tracks... 10 of bias fx and other virtual instrument and never any problem..... I'm on a Windows machine i5 4670, 8gb of RAM.

Will additional ram help or is it the chip from and i5 to an i7?

 

4 is luxury. On my MacBook Pro (i7 quad core, 2.7GHz) with 16GB of RAM, I can't even get a single instance of Native running on Logic Pro X without it glitching out on complicated dual amp (factory default) presets. Works ok on simple presets, but dies on playback with anything more involved. And that's with no other plugins, buffers/latency set to maximum size and everything set to optimise/minimise CPU impact. One CPU core is fully saturated, while the other three are basically not doing a lot. It looks like Native is only trying to use one core.

 

So if Native on a single core works, then 4 instances would eat 4 cores and should still work. I have no idea how people are getting huge numbers of Native instances going unless they have big machines with a bunch of grunty CPUs.