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DunedinDragon

Took the Leap to 2.81...what's all the fuss about???

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Well I finally decided this afternoon to take the leap and upgrade from FW 2.70 to 2.81 on Windows 10.  I followed each step of the directions so I felt fully prepared for what i was going to see in the upgrade process and there were absolutely no surprises and it all took about 30 minutes..and I was going slowly and carefully to make sure I didn't make any missteps.  Loaded my presets from my backup and everything seemed to work as expected.  No problems with any snapshots, no problems in converting any presets, and even presets with the LA Compressor at the end of the signal chain worked as expected.  Even importing 2.70 presets worked smoothly with no delay in switching so I didn't really need to do a reset.  Granted this was on my studio Helix Floor, not my live unit so I still have a bit of testing to do before I update my live unit, but so far so good.

I only mention this to make sure everyone's aware that just because there are some people having problems, that doesn't mean the update is unstable or unusable.  I still have to check out the DAW and several other things, but I'm not expecting any problems from what I've seen so far.  We hear a lot from the folks that seem to have problems, but never from people that everything went well...so I'm filling in the gaps.....

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2 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

We hear a lot from the folks that seem to have problems, but never from people that everything went well...so I'm filling in the gaps.....

 

Hi,

 

Good to know that your transition to the new Core went without problems.

 

Although there does appear to be some people having problems with drivers on some Windows PCs, most of it seems to be down to brute force and ignorance. As I pointed out in another discussion, what benefit is there in Line 6 releasing flakey software? O.K. They cannot possibly try out the software on every possible variation of operating configuration.

 

Why do some people never admit the the main installation issues lie between the chair and the computer.

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That's one of the main problems I think people don't really understand.  Even though the Helix supports two operating systems (Windows and Mac), there are literally millions of possible permutations of how those operating systems can be configured both in terms of hardware and software.  That makes it impossible to test every variation of setup.  Both of my computers are somewhat specialized in that one is reserved for studio work and one is reserved for video editing.  Those aren't standard pieces of software used by everyone, but both of them tend to never have a problem with updates, primarily because my internet connection is absolutely bulletproof as is my usage and configuration of USB ports as is the way my security rights are administered and my networking between the computers.  Because those fundamental things are rock solid it dramatically reduces the possibility of unexpected problems along the way.  Your updates will only go as well as the health of your computer will allow.

 

If you download weird little shareware programs or use advanced hardware configurations for gaming you should probably expect trouble.  One of my computers is a gaming laptop because it's needed for video editing, but I NEVER mess with the clock rates or fiddle with video refresh rates at the OS level.  That keeps me out of trouble for things like the Helix which I absolutely depend upon.

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9 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

If you download weird little shareware programs or use advanced hardware configurations for gaming you should probably expect trouble. 

 

There goes the neighborhood... ; )

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2 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

No problems with any snapshots, no problems in converting any presets, and even presets with the LA Compressor at the end of the signal chain worked as expected.

 

Like you, I waited a while, then upgraded from 2.70 to 2.81. Like you, I read and followed the instructions and encountered no problems with the upgrade. Unfortunately, I can say that I am having issues with random drops in patch volume associated with patches with the LA Comp at the end of the chain. These seem to be impermanent, so one time a patch will load quiet, then the next time, with no Ch Vol adjustment, it will load at the correct, original volume level.

 

I'm not gigging so this is a modest PITA rather than a Problem, but it will be good to see it fixed, hopefully with 2.82.

 

I would also like to confirm that I remain a dedicated fanboi of L6  :-0

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Guys, there were plenty of people who's update froze for a long time at the Warning Stage (can't remember what the exact error message was, but you know what I am talking about). Most of these people followed the instructions correctly. Mine was FUBAR and froze up for about an hour. Someone on this here forum had the same problem, offered a solution that worked for him, and it worked quickly for most everyone who tried it after that.

 

Just want to be the voice from the other side. Not all issues were user error.

 

 

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there is a margain of error for every software update release of anykind out there.   I bet the % of people with real errors are well under 10% of the updating population.  

 

i'll admit this was my second update, and both times it didn't go off without a hitch.   It was user error in the end and not related to L6 instructions, it was just apple related.  I figured it out with some help from some cool members here. 

 

chill out, eat a burrito, drink a beer.   its just software, and that lollipop can be fixed.  Your broken heart may need a few more tacos and beers though. 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Rocco_Crocco said:

 

Just want to be the voice from the other side. Not all issues were user error.

 

 

That's true - and a perfectly good comment, that cannot be faulted, and similar to the one which I think I pointed out by stating:

 

"Although there does appear to be some people having problems with drivers on some Windows PCs"

 

When you read this some of the stuff on the forums, there did appear to be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth from people claiming that "Line 6 had bricked their Helix".

That's a totally ludicrous comment to make about the people who designed this box of tricks.

Why would they do that, it wasn't a deliberate act of sabotage.
I would imaging that a lot of this noise stemmed from the same crowd who were baying for Line 6 to release the beast all the way back to January.
Maybe they should be more careful what they wish for, take more care over the installation and preferably RTFI. Oh, yeah the firmware with the goodies is free!

 

 

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As a Mac user, I am very curious to see if other Mac users have had issues with the update. I’m admittedly quite nervous about doing it and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I’m quite happy with my Helix at 2.7. 

Actually, I was quite content with the previous version and not in any way taken advantage of or used any of the additions in 2.7. 

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U nnn n

5 hours ago, hideout said:

As a Mac user, I am very curious to see if other Mac users have had issues with the update. I’m admittedly quite nervous about doing it and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I’m quite happy with my Helix at 2.7. 

Actually, I was quite content with the previous version and not in any way taken advantage of or used any of the additions in 2.7. 

 

If anything it's probably a safer bet than Windows, what with the driver issues somes have had, etc. Went like clockwork on my Macbook Pro running the latest geologic formation OS, whatever the hell it is. Since I couldn't care less about factory presets and didn't bother loading the new ones, there wasn't even a need to restore a backup... everything was right where I'd left it. Whole thing was done inside of 20 minutes, including the restart and patch re-build process.

 

It'll be fine... assuming that you pay attention and follow the instructions, you've got a better chance of getting hit by a crosstown bus than having any significant issues with the update process itself.

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7 hours ago, hideout said:

As a Mac user, I am very curious to see if other Mac users have had issues with the update

 

Hi,

 

Not really, other than a small glitch with the Joystick and because of a recent repair it made me regress to v.2.71 just to confirm it wasn’t a hardware thing. Reloaded 2.8 - glitch gone and the whole thing of going back and forth took less than an hour, if that.

 

File under - mostly harmless!

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7 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

Hi,

 

Not really, other than a small glitch with the Joystick and because of a recent repair it made me regress to v.2.71 just to confirm it wasn’t a hardware thing. Reloaded 2.8 - glitch gone and the whole thing of going back and forth took less than an hour, if that.

 

File under - mostly harmless!

 

Thank you, sir.

 

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Well, one thing I did discover (which is not a bug by the way) is that the Helix PC device driver for 2.8 and 2.81 which is downloaded/installed as part of the HX Edit 2.80 install, is functionally different from the Helix device driver in 2.7 and 2.71.  This may have been pointed out in one of the documents and I just missed it.  But what it means is that a Helix loaded with 2.8 or 2.81 will not connect to the PC for sound or for HX Edit unless you've done the install of HX Edit 2.8 and it's driver.  In fact according to the Control Panel, the older Helix device driver will not start if you plug in a Helix loaded with 2.8 or 2.81.  I discovered this when I took my Helix Floor unit from my studio setup which I had upgraded to 2.81 and plugged it into my laptop which is normally connected to my Helix floor unit I use for live performances and is still on 2.70.

This may account for a number of problems people are having with HX Edit working with 2.81.  In spite of what they say, they may not have run the HX Edit install for 2.8 so they don't have the correct driver.

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On 8/13/2019 at 11:07 AM, hideout said:

As a Mac user, I am very curious to see if other Mac users have had issues with the update.

 

I had no issues with the update after reading and then installing 2.80 and then 2.81, on my late 2009 iMac 27".

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On 8/12/2019 at 2:42 PM, DunedinDragon said:

and even presets with the LA Compressor at the end of the signal chain worked as expected. 

 

This is what I like to hear.... it's my main concern of 2.8 / 2.8.1

 

On 8/12/2019 at 5:06 PM, BBD_123 said:

Unfortunately, I can say that I am having issues with random drops in patch volume associated with patches with the LA Comp at the end of the chain.

 

Ahh crap... back down to earth :) 

 

I really want to update but my schedule is just too busy right now to take the chance. I'll stick to 2.7 for a little longer.

That's not a complaint, just fact. I do expect these oddities with such a large update. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

On 8/12/2019 at 3:06 PM, BBD_123 said:

Unfortunately, I can say that I am having issues with random drops in patch volume associated with patches with the LA Comp at the end of the chain.

Well, I don't need that.

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18 minutes ago, hideout said:

Well, I don't need that.

 

It's not like it's a foregone conclusion...I have no random volume fluctuation issues, and I use the LA Comp all over the place.

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1 hour ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

It's not like it's a foregone conclusion...I have no random volume fluctuation issues, and I use the LA Comp all over the place.

Not taking any chances

 

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6 hours ago, hideout said:

Not taking any chances

 

 

Just my 2 cents, but I think a little perspective might be in order. Nothing involved here is permanent. You're not donating a kidney... if you do the update and all hell breaks loose with the LA comp, roll it back to 2.71. Problem solved. The most "apocalyptic" result might be that you'll waste 40 minutes bouncing back and forth.

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9 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

It's not like it's a foregone conclusion...I have no random volume fluctuation issues, and I use the LA Comp all over the place.

 

It is interesting that come people are experiencing this and others are not... I wonder if this problem is associated with a particular unit (floor, stomp, lt, etc...) or possibly a particular combination of an amp and/or effect and the LA Comp? 

 

1 hour ago, cruisinon2 said:

Just my 2 cents, but I think a little perspective might be in order. Nothing involved here is permanent. You're not donating a kidney... if you do the update and all hell breaks loose with the LA comp, roll it back to 2.71. Problem solved. The most "apocalyptic" result might be that you'll waste 40 minutes bouncing back and forth.

 

I fully agree with this... if I can find a 4 - 5 day stretch between gigs I will certainly try the update. I just want to make sure I have enough time to properly test it before taking it to the stage. 

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20 minutes ago, codamedia said:

I fully agree with this... if I can find a 4 - 5 day stretch between gigs I will certainly try the update. I just want to make sure I have enough time to properly test it before taking it to the stage. 

 

Nothing wrong with that...I don't gig with anything that I haven't put through it's paces. But some guys seem to be paralyzed by the fear that they could have a problem, and that's just a little silly. It's not irreversible. Don't like it, go back. Done.

 

A piano might fall on my head tomorrow. Odds are low, but there's remains some numerical probability. Doesn't mean I'm gonna refuse to go outside, though.

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I have Windows 7 and it was looking like a bad idea to try and update. Fortunately for me, I have a friend (and bandmate in one of the bands I play in) who lives a half hour away and she has a Helix and a Mac. I went over to her place yesterday and updated my Helix from 2.70 to 2.81. I didn't actually check out more than two of my patches yet but everything looks fine and those 2 sounded fine; yay! By the time we have the next major update, I'll probably have switched to a Mac. It's kind of silly to have Windows 7 at this point (it won't be supported by January of next year) and my desktop is getting pretty old anyway. 

 

The one thing weird about the update is when it temporarily says "boot failure." At the very least it was a poor choice of words and I'd imagine it scared the crap out of a few people. Luckily I knew about that beforehand.

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One thing I always do when upgraded is to first do my backups, then I reset my Helix back to factory default, clearing all setlists, IRs, reset global settings - the full factory reset.

 

Then I do the upgrade. While I'm sure Line 6 goes to tremendous effort to translation prior settings and so forth, my reasoning is that there's probably a lot more testing going on starting from factory defaults -> upgrade.

 

After the upgrade, then I just restore my setlists. And I don't make very may global setting changes, so I just take care of those manually.

 

Not sure if resetting to factory defaults before upgrading actually makes a difference or not, but if something does go sideways, I know I took all reasonable measure to avoid problems. And coincidentally, I've never ever had a problem with a Line 6 Helix upgrade, and I've owned my Helixes for 3+ years and have never skipped an update.

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6 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Just my 2 cents, but I think a little perspective might be in order. Nothing involved here is permanent. You're not donating a kidney... if you do the update and all hell breaks loose with the LA comp, roll it back to 2.71. Problem solved. The most "apocalyptic" result might be that you'll waste 40 minutes bouncing back and forth.

I just don’t want to have to roll back.  Life keeps me pretty busy so I want to upgrade and stay there. I’m sure a stable version will come. And as I like to say, for me, there’s nothing missing in 2.70. I just don’t want to be too far back in the firmware versions. 

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On 8/13/2019 at 5:07 PM, hideout said:

As a Mac user, I am very curious to see if other Mac users have had issues with the update. I’m admittedly quite nervous about doing it and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I’m quite happy with my Helix at 2.7. 

Actually, I was quite content with the previous version and not in any way taken advantage of or used any of the additions in 2.7. 

No issues whatsoever on my mid 2011 iMac .

 

My last Windows laptop was stolen from me ,it was a pretty high spec too, and though i really missed it at the time, i now can't help but think that the thief did me a favour.

 

If i plugged hardware into it it would say "What exactly do you think you're doing ?" Whereas my current iMac says "Hey you've plugged something in, lets get that working for you".

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15 hours ago, erniedenov said:

I have Windows 7 and it was looking like a bad idea to try and update. Fortunately for me, I have a friend (and bandmate in one of the bands I play in) who lives a half hour away and she has a Helix and a Mac. I went over to her place yesterday and updated my Helix from 2.70 to 2.81. I didn't actually check out more than two of my patches yet but everything looks fine and those 2 sounded fine; yay! By the time we have the next major update, I'll probably have switched to a Mac. It's kind of silly to have Windows 7 at this point (it won't be supported by January of next year) and my desktop is getting pretty old anyway. 

 

The one thing weird about the update is when it temporarily says "boot failure." At the very least it was a poor choice of words and I'd imagine it scared the crap out of a few people. Luckily I knew about that beforehand.

Oh no stay on 7 as long as you can (or as long as Line6 supports it) it is the crappy Win 10 that cause all Win problems mostly due to problem installing the new driver that is needed for the hotkeys.
I dont have any issues on my win 7 machines i use a hub aswell 
So no reason to go to another machine for updates.
Another thing is they might have zillions of protection software that wont let Line6 install it.
 

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I agree with O.P no problems updating whatsoever.
It took maybe 10 min to update another few min for the 7&8 reset rebuild of new presets and restore of the backup
As i had all my backups done long before "spring ended" so it was just the looong wait for the 2.80 release.

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this could make an interesting poll? Try and quantify how many had a problem with a shift to 2.80 / 2.81 and how many of them maintain they carefully followed the instructions and maybe on what platform ( Win / Mac).

Try and get a measure of success as well as the more (quite reasonably) well publicised disaster areas.

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5 hours ago, sb77 said:

this could make an interesting poll? Try and quantify how many had a problem with a shift to 2.80 / 2.81 and how many of them maintain they carefully followed the instructions and maybe on what platform ( Win / Mac).

Try and get a measure of success as well as the more (quite reasonably) well publicised disaster areas.

 

Here's the problem: What your proposing is what's called an "observational study"... in short, a study where the researcher has no control over what the subjects actually do, and relies heavily (if not entirely) on self-reported data... which is about as reliable as your average campaign promise. Self-reported data is just shy of meaningless because almost no one gets it right, even if they're genuinely trying. The best example is asking people to estimate how much they drink. Since most folks don't keep a graduated cylinder on the bar next to their cocktail shaker, it's almost impossible to estimate accurately, and your typical boozer seriously underestimates their intake... but I digress. In this case, the self reported info in question is doubly useless because for some, true accuracy means admitting that they're an idiot. Nobody's gonna cop to not reading the instructions and screwing it up as a result, or that the computer they're using is a POS, loaded with malware and old enough to vote. The overwhelming majority will swear on a stack of bibles that they read every word and followed it to the letter, whether they did or not.

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On 8/13/2019 at 12:06 AM, BBD_123 said:

Unfortunately, I can say that I am having issues with random drops in patch volume associated with patches with the LA Comp at the end of the chain. These seem to be impermanent, so one time a patch will load quiet, then the next time, with no Ch Vol adjustment, it will load at the correct, original volume level.

 

Indeed, I have the same issue. No problems with the update at all, but this volume issue is quite annoying and seems to be random. If I reload the patch over and over again it would sometimes drop in volume other times not. Very weird and hopefully it gets resolved soon. I do like this "Sadites" idea, but as I will be playing live I may change my presets for the time being an get rid of the LA studio comp at the end of the chain. Other than that I don't see a need to roll back to 2.7.

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17 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Here's the problem: What your proposing is what's called an "observational study"... in short, a study where the researcher has no control over what the subjects actually do, and relies heavily (if not entirely) on self-reported data... which is about as reliable as your average campaign promise. Self-reported data is just shy of meaningless because almost no one gets it right, even if they're genuinely trying. The best example is asking people to estimate how much they drink. Since most folks don't keep a graduated cylinder on the bar next to their cocktail shaker, it's almost impossible to estimate accurately, and your typical boozer seriously underestimates their intake... but I digress. In this case, the self reported info in question is doubly useless because for some, true accuracy means admitting that they're an idiot. Nobody's gonna cop to not reading the instructions and screwing it up as a result, or that the computer they're using is a POS, loaded with malware and old enough to vote. The overwhelming majority will swear on a stack of bibles that they read every word and followed it to the letter, whether they did or not.

Yeah sure cruisinon2 , the results would not hold up in a court of law but that really wasn't the naive idea you critique.

And true, not everybody wants to say they screwed-up and rushed at the upgrade in maniacal excitement for a change in revision number without reading the instructions properly - personally if I screw up I take responsibility for it.... but maybe that's not for everyone. But hey, we are all different there will be a few with science degrees and a few that cant read so well and that's how it is. A good upgrade should address a spread of capability.

We all understand that on a forum such as this, and pretty much every other on the www, its natural we expect to see the complaints more so than the quiet successes. 

I was simply wondering how many successes (define how you like BTW but for me its a post upgrade functionally effective Helix) there have been. I reckon its probably quite a few but who knows? Lets just stay with the moaning & groaning and some constructive solutions.

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On 8/16/2019 at 8:42 PM, Hillman1312 said:

Indeed, I have the same issue. No problems with the update at all, but this volume issue is quite annoying and seems to be random. If I reload the patch over and over again it would sometimes drop in volume other times not.

 

That's it. I notice that the LA Comp patches will sometimes load quiet with an immediate volume swell but not to the correct level. W10, fully patched, build 1903, correct and successful update procedure from 2.70 to 2.81. Now I'm *not* moaning about this, it is just one of those things with a major update, but it is definitely a thing. 

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At least on my LT the problem seems to go away if I add a gain block after the compressor. Set at 0dB it will not affect the sound or volume.  May even work when bypassed, have not tested that yet.

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LA Comp adds +4dB so I have its level set at -4dB to shave off the bump. 

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The added gain block is just a workaround for me; I prefer to set the gain using the volume control on the amp.

Once Line 6 fixes the issue I can simply delete the gain block again freeing an additional space (not that I really need it, plenty of space ....) 

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I have owned the Helix Floor since the day it was released and have updated it with every single update published by Line6. I have not had a single problem ever. I have used both PC and Mac for updating and they both work fine. But i have always made sure that the PC config is "clean" and without any weird drivers, programs, configs and so on. It's absolutely impossible for any vendor to cater for all kind of configs on users PC:s so to spare yourself issues create a secondary Boot sector on your machine and use that as clean as possible when you are updating.

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On 8/15/2019 at 6:06 AM, DunedinDragon said:

Well, one thing I did discover (which is not a bug by the way) is that the Helix PC device driver for 2.8 and 2.81 which is downloaded/installed as part of the HX Edit 2.80 install, is functionally different from the Helix device driver in 2.7 and 2.71.  This may have been pointed out in one of the documents and I just missed it.  But what it means is that a Helix loaded with 2.8 or 2.81 will not connect to the PC for sound or for HX Edit unless you've done the install of HX Edit 2.8 and it's driver.  In fact according to the Control Panel, the older Helix device driver will not start if you plug in a Helix loaded with 2.8 or 2.81.  I discovered this when I took my Helix Floor unit from my studio setup which I had upgraded to 2.81 and plugged it into my laptop which is normally connected to my Helix floor unit I use for live performances and is still on 2.70.

This may account for a number of problems people are having with HX Edit working with 2.81.  In spite of what they say, they may not have run the HX Edit install for 2.8 so they don't have the correct driver.

 

This is something I discovered during my update as well. Copying from another thread:

 

Quote

Interestingly, looking at the drivers that are installed when "WinUSB" is selected, the INF includes entries for basically every piece of Helix hardware. The architectural changes in 2.80 are clear since the Helix Drivers actually installs two packages simultaneously now, 1.92 (which works for any Helix unit pre 2.8) and 1.93 (which obviously applies to 2.80). To Windows a 2.80 Helix is a completely different piece of hardware than any earlier version. It also enumerates an extra device as mentioned above that the WinUSB drivers apply to. Not sure if this is for sending keyboard inputs to the PC, or perhaps a new way for L6 software to talk to the Helix, but it's clearly necessary for the update to complete.

 

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On 8/15/2019 at 9:55 AM, bsd512 said:

One thing I always do when upgraded is to first do my backups, then I reset my Helix back to factory default, clearing all setlists, IRs, reset global settings - the full factory reset.

 

Same here.  I then do a global reset after the update before restoring IRs & Global settings only from the backup.  I will restore setlists individually as over the course of waiting for updates I tend to re-think my setlists when I have down time.  This way I may only restore two of the three to five setlists I have based upon needs and initial testing prior to a show.  And just a note I started with v1.04 when it came out after my Helix purchase.  I have a lot of various backups based upon the export ... backup technology over the years Line 6 has been upgrading the Helix system.  And I only use Firefox to download the software. 

 

That is my experience to date

 

Dennis

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