Helix/HX 3.15 Update

[HonestOpinion]

7 hours ago, wicker_man said:

 

Really pleased with the 3.15 update - looking forward to getting stuck into it, but I can't find where to download the Native update.  The downloads page seems to still show version 1.00 as the latest release.  Grateful for any guidance, thanks.

 

7 hours ago, molul said:

 

You need to leave the hardware dropdown blank. Only choose software and OS, and it will appear. The same happened to me this morning :)

 

Just saw your question but @molul provided the correct response. 

[Badger55]

This was my first update since updating to 3.11 from 2.xx when I first bought my Helix LT.  I'm aged 66 & no tech wiz, but I followed the (very clear) instructions & everything went perfectly, after noting the comments above regarding Helix Native, I've also managed to update that with no problem.

 

As has been said before : read the instructions first- it saves a lot of hassle. :)

[Imerkat]

Trying to update but my Helix is stuck initializing for an hour. I did make a backup but what should I do now?

[silverhead]

1 minute ago, Imerkat said:

Trying to update but my Helix is stuck initializing for an hour. I did make a backup but what should I do now?

What steps have you taken to perform the update? Did you make the backup manually or as part of the update process?

[CraigGT]

4 hours ago, gfawise1 said:

 

If you do a full restore, as I did, when you turn Helix off and on again, it rebuilds the factory banks again.

 

Rebuilding presets is a different process internal to the device. 

If you do factory reset as you should then the factory banks will be up to date and doing a restore as I said will not overwrite them.

[acousticglue]

Thank you Line6 Team for not being a Boss!

[Imerkat]

4 minutes ago, silverhead said:

What steps have you taken to perform the update? Did you make the backup manually or as part of the update process?

just following the process. I downloaded the update Helix Edit, made backup, started initializing and now it's still doing it.

[SaschaFranck]

2 hours ago, Imerkat said:

Trying to update but my Helix is stuck initializing for an hour. I did make a backup but what should I do now?

 

Was the same for me (I suspect server issues on Line 6's end). Quit HX Edit (including shutting down possible background tasks in case you're on Windows), download the latest Line 6 Updater if you haven't already, download the appropriate flash file for the update, start the L6 Updater and do an offline update. Bob should be your uncle.

[Imerkat]

1 hour ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

Was the same for me (I suspect server issues on Line 6's end). Quit HX Edit (including shutting down possible background tasks in case you're on Windows), download the latest Line 6 Updater if you haven't already, download the approproate flash file for the update, start the L6 Updater and do an offline update. Bob should be your uncle.

 

that worked, thanks!

[SaschaFranck]

21 minutes ago, Imerkat said:

that worked, thanks!

 

Cheers!

[HonestOpinion]

7 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

Was the same for me (I suspect server issues on Line 6's end). Quit HX Edit (including shutting down possible background tasks in case you're on Windows), download the latest Line 6 Updater if you haven't already, download the approproate flash file for the update, start the L6 Updater and do an offline update. Bob should be your uncle.

 

Glad you mentioned the potential server issues on Line6's end. This thought occurs to me whenever I see update failures being reported within the first couple of days of an announced update. Servers are getting slammed. Don't know if it is the case but it is such a common cause for failures in other vendor's updates that have a large user base and one as enthusiastic as Line6's to get the latest.

 

Other than phased rollouts to your user base in limited batches, for example by region (hate that), one of the best ways to guard against overloaded servers causing failed upgrades from the perspective of the developer writing the update, is to make sure that the only part of the process that requires connectivity is an initial download that is viewed as a single transaction. It either completes successfully within a certain preset amount of time and the update continues, or it exits and maybe kicks back a message such as "server busy, try again". If the download of the new editor/firmware is successful, only then does it proceed to the rest of the process completely offline (no more internet connectivity or acks from the server side required once the initial download is completed, only connectivity from the HX device to the computer). This is essentially how the manual Updater process operates, so good on Line6 for providing the alternative to the automatic update.

 

Easy to speculate on things like this as an armchair quarterback. I have no insight into the automatic update processes' legacy code or various requirements to ensure a proper upgrade. If it is possible to do everything offline once the new editor and firmware are downloaded though, it might cut down on failed and stalled updates. No idea. I suspect the majority of failures are downstream on the users end though. One option if there are problems server-side, is over-allocating server resources on the back end. That can get expensive and connectivity issues with an ISP can still cause problems that have nothing to do with Line6. Services like Amazon's AWS can sometimes be more economical for providing connectivity and server resources that expand and contract automatically according to demand. For all I know Line6 is already using them.  Whatever method they have chosen to manage the back end they have probably made a conscious decision balancing between not over-spending on server resources and total number of failed updates. 

 

I like that they also offer the automated process as I have been lucky with it working consistently for the most part and the ease of use of it appeals to me. After all the hard work I know they have put into it, it still has room to improve. Very cool though how it has evolved to include the backup and downloading and installing of HX Edit before proceeding to the firmware update. They keep this up and it will be booking gigs for your band soon with every update.

 

 

[DSK7700]

Hello.
After updating to version 3.15, the distortion effector connected to the send / return is very noisy.
Is there anyone else with the same symptoms?
Thank you.

[lou-kash]

9 hours ago, dosiafrank said:

updated the EX-edit software to 3.15 version. (mac OS X )

unfortunately the app show me ' No update available' 

 

Same here.

This is on El Capitan.

Could be that while HX Edit still runs on El Capitan (yay!), there could be some issues. Which is likely why the release notes actually just mention MacOS Sierra or higher.

 

[SaschaFranck]

31 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

Servers are getting slammed. Don't know if it is the case

 

I'm pretty sure it's the case. I had similar things happening before already - and apparently HX doesn't have much of a "download timeout safety net" (aka download manager alike feature) built in, so once any server errors occur, it might as well just keep trying to resolve whatever temporarily invalid request instead of just stoppimg and starting a new attempt (which is what download managers usually do - or offer - once they realize there's no chance to resume). I mean, I could download HX Edit from within itself just fine (which is like around 14 x the size of the actual update), I could as well grab the flash file in a matter of a second (it's just 5.x MB), so it's possibly not so much about the servers getting slammed but more about how HX Edit is dealing with temporarily rejected file requests.

 

So, basically I agree with what you said in your second paragraph. And yes, it's good that there's an alternative - but from all I gather as an "armchair quarterback", I think it should be possible for L6 to kind of build that manual process into HX Edit. Alternatively, they could (well, they rather should) post the alternative Updater workaround along with their update instructions. I mean, it's not for the first time this happens. In fact, it happened with each and every update ever since I own the Helix (and before as well, I've been reading about these issues before I got my unit already), my post describing the L6 Updater workaround (in another thread) got a whole plethora of likes by now. And no, I'm not proud of these likes by any means as I was just posting something very obvious - which I think should be L6's job.

[SaschaFranck]

46 minutes ago, daisuke7700 said:

After updating to version 3.15, the distortion effector connected to the send / return is very noisy.

 

Did you restore your global settings and/or check your loop level settings?

[DGangJ]

Hi, seems I have ran into a problem... Was updating firmware to 3.15 and it gave out an error mid update. 

Turned the unit off then on, it boots up as 3.15 and I have no notification to update in HX Edit, and all my amp/cab blocks have are not working anymore, they can all be on or off, it just sounds like they aren't there. Already did a factory reset and even the factory effects are messed up. did 2 full restores already and still the same. 

Any ideas on how can I force update to 3.15 or revert back to 3.11 then reupdate to 3.15?

[shemeshg]

1. it make more sense to have CC 81 value 127  "Next" page, and not a slider through all pages

 

As it is now: it expects, 127 would result the last page. and desired page would be  (127/<Number of pages>)*(current page)

 

Since HelisxEdotor does not reflect the selected  parameter on the hardware, (Only when the parameter is on different page on the *HelixEditor* and not the hardware)

It is very confusing blindly changing these new 49cc to 558cc without looking at the hardware device too...

 

1.5

It might be  helpful if the Hardware would follow the selected parameter on the HelixEditor, and switch to it's relevant page automatically.

 

2. It would be nice to have also CC for changing Selected parameter 

[HonestOpinion]

2 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

I'm pretty sure it's the case. I had similar things happening before already - and apparently HX doesn't have much of a "download timeout safety net" (aka download manager alike feature) built in, so once any server errors occur, it might as well just keep trying to resolve whatever temporarily invalid request instead of just stoppimg and starting a new attempt (which is what download managers usually do - or offer - once they realize there's no chance to resume). I mean, I could download HX Edit from within itself just fine (which is like around 14 x the size of the actual update), I could as well grab the flash file in a matter of a second (it's just 5.x MB), so it's possibly not so much about the servers getting slammed but more about how HX Edit is dealing with temporarily rejected file requests.

 

So, basically I agree with what you said in your second paragraph. And yes, it's good that there's an alternative - but from all I gather as an "armchair quarterback", I think it should be possible for L6 to kind of build that manual process into HX Edit. Alternatively, they could (well, they rather should) post the alternative Updater workaround along with their update instructions. I mean, it's not for the first time this happens. In fact, it happened with each and every update ever since I own the Helix (and before as well, I've been reading about these issues before I got my unit already), my post describing the L6 Updater workaround (in another thread) got a whole plethora of likes by now. And no, I'm not proud of these likes by any means as I was just posting something very obvious - which I think should be L6's job.

 

Just wanted to make it clear that I was accusing myself of being an armchair quarterback, not you. I agree, Line6 would probably be well served to formally document the manual Updater process as the standard alternative when the automated update process fails.  And lastly, that bulleted list you put out on how to recover from a stalled update using the Updater has been a great thing for the Line6 community that has garnered you a lot of good will. A lot of people had put out similar instructions to you previously, but you managed to do it in a very concise manner that seemed to be very easy for folks to follow. I know I was one of the people that upvoted it and I think it should be pinned.

[Lajwah]

My HX STOMP is just Frozen after trying to update. Just seeing the boot screen, nothing else. I tried turning it on and off to do a factory reset, still only get the boot screen. Plugging a USB cable into it, Line 6 Updater doesn't recognize the Stomp is plugged in. I'm just stuck... Anybody have any idea what I can do? 

 

[lou-kash]

4 hours ago, lou-kash said:

Could be that while HX Edit still runs on El Capitan (yay!), there could be some issues. Which is likely why the release notes actually just mention MacOS Sierra or higher.

 

Alright, so my theory seems to be confirmed:

All partitions from Sierra up to Catalina were showing the update, and I could update the HX Stomp successfully.

 

I guess the issue with El Capitan and below comes from some expired internet certificates at the system level. Such problems appear in other apps as well, and that's why many apps require SIerra or even High Sierra to work around that.

 

The good news is that once everything's been updated, HX Edit 3.15 can still communicate with the Stomp (3.15) just fine on El Capitan.

[SaschaFranck]

5 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

Just wanted to make it clear that I was accusing myself of being an armchair quarterback, not you.

 

Oh, I know - and I just wanted to make clear that I'm every bit as much an armchair quarterback. The marvel that is non-native-language internet communication, I suppose.

[SaschaFranck]

Fwiw, how comes, Line 6 still isn't able to come up with some even remotely decent default settings for whatever blocks? I mean, just select an empty patch and insert the new Ventoux amp as an amp/cab block. It sounds mediocre at best - but I'd go as far as to say horrible. A sound I would *never* ever use. And that's true for basically all amp blocks. Check the 11 "Brit" labeled ones. It's as if they were having a little "let's see whom of us manages to sound the worst" contest. With all of them winning.

Given that I can adjust pretty much all amps to sound at least somewhat useful, also given that these settings seem to work rather well throughout using a number of different guitars, I fail to understand why Line 6 has never adressed this - very wellknown! - issue.

Sure, I do of course know about user defaults, and quite obviously, I'm using them. But when someone interested in a modeler checks out the unit in a shop, it's all factory defaults. I still remember this moment myself, tried a Helix for the first time in 2016 I think. Brandnew, in a local shop. People were already raving about it online. And there I was, discovering 100% horrible sounding amp defaults and factory presets.

Oh yeah, sure, Mr. Klein will chime in, telling us how much all presets suck (ok, in fact, he won't chime in because their own company forums is the very place the Line 6 staff avoids like the plague) - and that's true. But there's still a huge difference between presets and presets made to get the worst out of each amp model - the latter being what we find in the Helix.

 

Just wondering.

[codamedia]

4 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

I mean, just select an empty patch and insert the new Ventoux amp as an amp/cab block. It sounds mediocre at best - but I'd go as far as to say horrible.

 

My old Tele with vintage pickups sounded really good when I loaded up that amp with default settings... just sayin'. 

 

4 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

A sound I would *never* ever use.

 

User defaults to the rescue. I'm pretty sure that's why they were introduced several updates ago. 

 

4 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

I still remember this moment myself, tried a Helix for the first time in 2016 I think. Brandnew, in a local shop. People were already raving about it online. And there I was, discovering 100% horrible sounding amp defaults and factory presets.

 

and you bought it... 

[PierM]

5 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Oh yeah, sure, Mr. Klein will chime in, telling us how much all presets suck (ok, in fact, he won't chime in because their own company forums is the very place the Line 6 staff avoids like the plague) - and that's true. But there's still a huge difference between presets and presets made to get the worst out of each amp model - the latter being what we find in the Helix.

 

I've the feeling that while you are here ranting 24/7, and telling us you're gonna drop the horrible helix (rubbish hardware, horrible scribble strips, garbage presets, wrong default, worst pitch tracking etc etc etc..) to then buy a Boss GT1000 (be aware Boss forums, you are the next!), he's busy to give you something new to rant about. It's still sort of a free energy loop. Peace. :)

[SaschaFranck]

7 minutes ago, PierM said:

I've the feeling that while you are here ranting 24/7, and telling us you're gonna drop the horrible helix

 

Thanks god there's selective reading, eh? At least you're pretty good at it.

[SaschaFranck]

1 hour ago, codamedia said:

User defaults to the rescue. I'm pretty sure that's why they were introduced several updates ago. 

 

Sure - and I'm obviously making use of them. But nobody checking a fresh-from-factory model in a shop will.

 

1 hour ago, codamedia said:

and you bought it...

 

Because I knew how I could tweak things as I've tried out HX Native quite intensively. Just given the hardware unit and my testrides in shops, I possibly wouldn't have bought it.

 

Fwiw, I'm sure that you'll have noticed that I'm by far not the only one finding both the factory defaults and presets way less than impressive, to put it carefully.

[silverhead]

5 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

.....

Because I knew how I could tweak things as I've tried out HX Native quite intensively. Just given the hardware unit and my testrides in shops, I possibly wouldn't have bought it.

 

Fwiw, I'm sure that you'll have noticed that I'm by far not the only one finding both the factory defaults and presets way less than impressive, to put it carefully.

 

I expect Line 6 has factored in the (largely unquantifiable) prospect of lost sales due to poor factory presets. Seems they have decided it's not worth the effort to try to 'improve' them further, whatever that means, at least not now. It takes resources to do that and it's not clear it would push any tire-kickers over the line in a retail store. It's like pinning the tail on a donkey. Every user's ears, equipment, and style preferences are different. A change one tire-kicker likes would be hated by another. Like you, any serious buyer (and the $ involved means serious) understands that factory presets need to be tweaked.

 

If Line 6 thought they could drive increased sales by improving factory presets instead of adding new functionality they would do that.

[Badger55]

" If Line 6 thought they could drive increased sales by improving factory presets instead of adding new functionality they would do that. "

 

I've seen criticism of Line 6 presets on a number of on-line/You Tube reviews & shoot outs where they came second (or worse) to other gear that simply 

sounded better "out of the box" . This must  have an effect on sales & you'd think they would want to address it.  I've had other multi FX in the past with similar issues

so I assumed when I invested in a Helix LT that I'd be spending some time tweaking & creating my own presets. I've not bothered changing factory presets, but I have copied

some to empty user presets to use as a starting point for editing.

[duartefaria87]

Hello Line 6, i am very happy with your products and i recently bought an HX Stomp and there is one feature i use that is the Global EQ that is very handy but i wish i can save like a preset to use different ones according the place i am playing and build a library with it.

 

When i bought this Stomp i connected and updated the device, and started doing my effects with a good pair of headphones on.

When i finished it on PC i connected to my amp and cab and started manipulating the Global EQ  in order to achieve a similar tone compared to what i was listening with the headphones on.

When i did my first live session and i needed to take the equipment with another place with other acoustic properties i had to change again the Global EQ to match the tone i made with the headphones on.

But in between i can't save any preset of the Global EQ and i have to take a photo with my phone to save the Global EQ of the different places i do live sessions including when i play in home.

 

I just want to tell you this and ask if in the future you can update the Global EQ in order to save as a preset into a library?

 

I use the Global EQ this way and for me is the best way to use it for my advantage, I do not have to change the effects cause they are good enough when i connect the Stomp to PC and record directly with it.

I just want to have more options to achieve that sound when i play in live sessions and places with different acoustic properties and suport to save it as a preset and to build a library of Global EQ with the name of the places i usualy do live sessions.

 

In my opinion this is a great improvement in the use and capability of this equipment.

[silverhead]

28 minutes ago, Badger55 said:

... This must  have an effect on sales & you'd think they would want to address it. ...

 

. I've not bothered changing factory presets, but I have copied some to empty user presets to use as a starting point for editing....

 Must have an effect on sales? An apparently incorrect assumption. I'm glad we agree - if Line 6 thought that they would want to address it.

 

Using factory presets as a starting point is exactly what they are there for. Different users tweak them to accommodate their different tastes and equipment.

[craiganderton]

The question of factory presets has been with us forever. Check out synthesizer presets. They're typically a bunch of common sounds (piano, strings, bass, etc.) along with some really presets that do crazy stuff just to show that they can do that. 

 

I've designed a lot of synth factory presets in my time. Most companies don't expect or even want the presets to be musically useful. They expect something that catches someone's ear while trying out a synth on the floor of a Guitar Center store. I don't know if anyone used "Digital Native Dance" in their music (although I heard it in commercials), but it sure sold a lot of D50s. It was preset #1, you pressed a key, and you heard something you hadn't heard before.

 

The biggest problem is you can't design a set of universal presets. I tend to like simpler sounds, more like amp replacements, with not a lot of gain - except for when I do want a lot of gain. But I also use a lot of tempo-synched, electronic-sounding presets for EDM projects. Other people want lots of effects. A preset collection for rock would be different from EDM. So, all a company can do is put as much variety into a preset collection as possible, and hope that the sounds intrigue people enough to see a device as having potential for their music.

 

But getting back to 3.15 - it's a helluva update. I like the attention to detail, like having an ADT where the doubled track can lag OR lead the original, just like we used to do with variable-speed tape.

 

 

[SaschaFranck]

Well, as far as factory presets go, I had an opportunity to check out a whole bunch of Axe FX III factory patches a while ago. And compared to what's coming with the Helix, for me it's night and day. Also, the amp defaults (which then offer sub-presets, another quite nice thing the Helix doesn't offer) seemed to be vastly better adjusted. And again, it's certainly not just me thinking like that.

Let's face it, the Helix' factory defaults for the blocks have seen very little, if any love. I mean, Sag, Hum and Ripple are at 5 for 80% of all defaults. That just doesn't make any sense. The same goes for Master. Very often, especially on all those modern amps, it's set way too high (I'm not talking about amps without a master volume in real life). Same goes for Drive. You'd think all vintage amps were made for whatever kinda high gain, given the way Drive is dialed in per default, it's not even close to edge of breakup anymore. To me, it seems as if someone dialed all those in using a guitar with not too much output but with the Input Pad still activated. In case I activate it, most things sound much better already - and no, I don't even own any real high output guitars. Besides, factory default for the Input Pad is off.

Also, the delay and verb defaults usually come with *way* too high mix values.

So, just grab, say, any of the Grammaticos and an Adriatic delay at their defaults and it's instant mud heaven, at least when using a medium output guitar.

 

[SaschaFranck]

1 hour ago, craiganderton said:

like having an ADT where the doubled track can lag OR lead the original

 

Well, that only works in case you sacrifice the original signal without latency.

[SaschaFranck]

But fwiw, before I'm just "the bad boy spoiling all the fun" again, the option to set the Input Pad per patch and/or globally is very welcomed and highly useful.

[codamedia]

3 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Fwiw, I'm sure that you'll have noticed that I'm by far not the only one finding both the factory defaults and presets way less than impressive, to put it carefully.

 

Absolutely... I can be added to that list as well but It's a petty issue that doesn't affect me in any way.

Do you remember the days of buying and amp that came with a manual including suggested settings? Those settings never worked! Same with effect pedals trying the same. How are modelers that come with a default setting any different? 

[codamedia]

 

1 hour ago, craiganderton said:

I don't know if anyone used "Digital Native Dance" in their music (although I heard it in commercials), but it sure sold a lot of D50s. It was preset #1, you pressed a key, and you heard something you hadn't heard before.

 

I'll have to refresh my memory with that one... 

 

Another that comes to mind is the KORG WAVESTATION "Ski Jam".... I believe it is the first preset in the first bank. I used to hear that on every recording that came out during that time and was reminded recently when I heard Dire Straits "Planet of New Orleans" and instantly knew what keyboard was used. 

[craiganderton]

32 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

Well, that only works in case you sacrifice the original signal without latency.

 

Interestingly, I've never heard any guitar player standing 10 feet away from an amp on stage complain about a 10 ms delay. I can certainly cope with 2 ms to accommodate the ADT effect.

[SaschaFranck]

1 hour ago, craiganderton said:

Interestingly, I've never heard any guitar player standing 10 feet away from an amp on stage complain about a 10 ms delay.

 

Quite a different thing than latency introduced by whatever digital devices (and I'm sure you know that as much as I do, so we really don't need to discuss it here).

[SaschaFranck]

1 hour ago, codamedia said:

How are modelers that come with a default setting any different?

 

Well, the default settings should rather stay in whatever "realistic" realm. Modern 100W amps with their master at 5 aren't anything like that. Similar things go for hum, ripple and sag.

[lawrence_Arps]

10 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Fwiw, how comes, Line 6 still isn't able to come up with some even remotely decent default settings for whatever blocks? I mean, just select an empty patch and insert the new Ventoux amp as an amp/cab block. It sounds mediocre at best - but I'd go as far as to say horrible. A sound I would *never* ever use. And that's true for basically all amp blocks. Check the 11 "Brit" labeled ones. It's as if they were having a little "let's see whom of us manages to sound the worst" contest. With all of them winning.

Given that I can adjust pretty much all amps to sound at least somewhat useful, also given that these settings seem to work rather well throughout using a number of different guitars, I fail to understand why Line 6 has never adressed this - very wellknown! - issue.

Sure, I do of course know about user defaults, and quite obviously, I'm using them. But when someone interested in a modeler checks out the unit in a shop, it's all factory defaults. I still remember this moment myself, tried a Helix for the first time in 2016 I think. Brandnew, in a local shop. People were already raving about it online. And there I was, discovering 100% horrible sounding amp defaults and factory presets.

Oh yeah, sure, Mr. Klein will chime in, telling us how much all presets suck (ok, in fact, he won't chime in because their own company forums is the very place the Line 6 staff avoids like the plague) - and that's true. But there's still a huge difference between presets and presets made to get the worst out of each amp model - the latter being what we find in the Helix.

 

Just wondering.

for the sake of a balanced discussion:

we all have different monitoring and preferences.  My experience differs greatly from yours. I did the same thing and was able to find ways of playing in that tone that seemed entirely appropriate.   I find the same with all the main amps presets.
None of them are exactly some tone I've heard in my head but they are all usable.  I do not doubt that I could record an album using only the factory presets...
That said my current ventoux patch has the gain up a tad and the mid up a lot.....