Version 1.9 Sound-alike Strat Bundle for Version 2.x

[mdmayfield]

Hi all,

 

After a ton of tweaking, I am excited to share some Workbench HD models for JTV version 2.0/2.1 that sound as close as I could get to the 1.9 and earlier Strat models. The process was:

 

1) Plug in older firmware JTV

2) Record some riffs with a clean amp sound on the HD500's looper (leaving spaces of silence)

3) Swap to newer-firmware JTV

4) Record the same riffs on the looper into the silent spots

5) Listen without playing to compare (to be more objective)

6) Hit Undo

7) Tweak in Workbench

8) Repeat 4-7 until your ears fall off

9) Repeat 1-8 for all five switch positions

 

There were a lot of interesting tricks I learned while making these: changing string volumes, altering gain per pickup, choosing an unlikely pickup and/or body, changing potentiometer values, and "stacking" identical pickups in series to alter the tone. Some of those are techniques I saw in patches created by the folks on VGuitarForums (especially blueman), but the attached models themselves I made from scratch.

 

(If you don't see the attachment, remember to log in to the L6 forums.)

 

Hope it's useful - thanks,

 

Matt

v19SpankForv21.bnk.zip

[Leftzilla]

Very Nice Thanks for sharing!

[thorneven]

I haven't tried your patches, but thank you for sharing your hard work.

[Jeffsco]

Incredibly hard work. Thank-you Matt. I'm very sensitive to the differences in the V2.xx and the 1.9. As I've stated in the many, many posts I've made on the subject...there is a definite difference between the 1.9 and later versions and the 2.xx versions do not sound as what I expect a Strat to sound like in comparision.

 

However I love the 2.1 Acoustics and the Workbench HD.  functionality. I'll definitely give this try.

[malnack]

I loaded this up over the weekend. Very nicely done.  I definitely prefer it to the 2.1 Spank model.

[ricstudioc]

And here also - even tho I've had no dog in the "1.9-vs-2.1" brawl, I loaded them in, and.... yah, gotta say there's a tad more "quack" in there.  Observation - between the five switch positions it sounds like a somewhat different guitar.  Not bad - and certainly your time and effort are to be commended! - just sayin'...

 

I'll be leaving them in.....

[guitarno]

Yes, Thanks very much for posting. I will have to give them a try. The spank models on the newer workbench versions have certainly given people plenty of issues.

[radatats]

loaded 'em, tried 'em, like 'em, keeping 'em...   :D

[mdmayfield]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. After playing out with them and using some other amp models, I think there's some room for improvement. I'll be revisiting these over the next couple weeks, and have been going through a few more iterations. Stay tuned...

[malnack]

Thanks for all of your effort!

[Hey_Joe]

Thanks mdmayfield...I tried them out and decided I liked them so much I put them in my Custom 1 slot on both my 69 and 59. If you can make 'em better - GREAT...time to open WBHD again. I'm staying TUNED!

 

I don't have version 1.9 in my JTVs so I can't go back to old Workbench. I always wanted to go back in there and see If I could copy, as a starting point, that strat bundle/bank that was on Vettaville by a guy named Ron Husien that many players liked for their 300/600/500/700s - do remember that?, about 4 forum incarnations ago. He was using the Special body with lips (never paid attention to his pot values) but was amazed at how Strat like it sounded and loaded the bank in my 300 and 600's custom 1 slot.

I recognize your screen name as being around here a long time...did you ever try those patches out? I think the bank was titled RH-Sept06 .vwb. Crusty used to really like them and talked them up big. I remember Hans from Vettaville had a video to go with them.

 

thanks again,

Mark

[grandinq]

Just got a chance to try these out -- very nice!  I was going back and forth with the 2.1 Spank and you modifications, and I agree that positions 2 and 4 sound especially better.  5 sounds less shrill to me as wel..

[clay-man]

Proof that Workbench is your best tool to working with the tone. If you're not happy with something, take some time to know how to work with Workbench, there's most likely a way you can shape it in your favor.

[stevekc]

 

I don't have version 1.9 in my JTVs so I can't go back to old Workbench. I always wanted to go back in there and see If I could copy, as a starting point, that strat bundle/bank that was on Vettaville by a guy named Ron Husien that many players liked for their 300/600/500/700s - do remember that?, about 4 forum incarnations ago. He was using the Special body with lips (never paid attention to his pot values) but was amazed at how Strat like it sounded and loaded the bank in my 300 and 600's custom 1 slot.

I recognize your screen name as being around here a long time...did you ever try those patches out? I think the bank was titled RH-Sept06 .vwb. Crusty used to really like them and talked them up big. I remember Hans from Vettaville had a video to go with them.

 

 

Brings back memories !-

 

 

My favorite Ron Husien "Variax Trick" was the custom Alt Tuning bundle that performed a 1/2 step drop for each 5 way PU Switch position - the old Variax changed virtual PU's a bit faster than the Tyler can, so this was a cool creative "dive bomb" effect in real time.

[Hey_Joe]

Brings back memories !-

 

 

My favorite Ron Husien "Variax Trick" was the custom Alt Tuning bundle that performed a 1/2 step drop for each 5 way PU Switch position - the old Variax changed virtual PU's a bit faster than the Tyler can, so this was a cool creative "dive bomb" effect in real time.

Yep - that was a nice trick. I remember that now.

If he still uses a Variax...? (preferably a JTV) I wish he would share with us on VGuitar.com

[clay-man]

Brings back memories !-

 

 

My favorite Ron Husien "Variax Trick" was the custom Alt Tuning bundle that performed a 1/2 step drop for each 5 way PU Switch position - the old Variax changed virtual PU's a bit faster than the Tyler can, so this was a cool creative "dive bomb" effect in real time.

 

I have to try that later, that sounds insanely fun.

[mdmayfield]

Hi everybody,

 

Thanks for the feedback. Mark (Hey_Joe), I think I did try those out at one point, but honestly I never played around too much with the old Variax Workbench (besides some custom tunings, and a Tele model with P-90s) because the models closely matched my taste, so it never really seemed necessary... :-/

 

Either way, I tried a new approach using a spectrum analyzer and ended up with these (attached). However, after trying them in a more musical context, I think they're actually further away than the first version.

 

Something in the pickups of the new Strat model is quite different in personality from the old ones. There's a kind of "presence peak" on the old one around 3-4kHz which the new one lacks, and there's considerably less bass (120Hz or so and below) on the new one. On the other hand, the new one has more lower mids like 1-2kHz, and more extended highs (5k and above).

 

The trouble is that there's only so much you can do in Workbench that's obvious, beyond trial and error. While it's theoretically possible that some combination of pickups, bodies, pots, etc. would get closer to the old Strat model than anything I've tried here, it's probably going to be something off-the-wall that I haven't tried... And I've tried quite a few off-the-wall things.

 

If there was a "resonant peak" frequency + amplitude setting per pickup (labeled in Hz and dB of course, while I'm daydreaming), I think it would be possible to pretty much nail it.

 

As it is, I think I'm going to just go back to the factory 2.1 models and re-do my HD500 settings to accommodate. It's rare that I change guitar models within a patch, and now that you can move the 5-way without the physical model knob position "taking over," it seems like the new paradigm is to imagine changing guitars through the HD500 patch model force, then using the pickup switch and knobs on that guitar.

 

It's been fun though! Thanks,

 

Matt

v19SpankForv21RevB.bnk.zip

[Hey_Joe]

Cool Matt -

 

I'll try these out today and see if I can tell the difference after you've used the spectrum analyzer.

Thanks for your contribution.

 

Mark

[mdmayfield]

Mark,

 

Yeah, they're OK but they're brighter in one way and darker in another.... I was able to get a little closer to the old Strat sound with a high shelf EQ at 4-5Hz boosting by around 4 dB, before the amp / amp model.

 

Good luck!

 

Matt

[Hey_Joe]

Thanks Matt -

 

I'll try the high shelf EQ you recommend. Unfortunately they just are not the same as the v1.9 so many of us liked with an HD spin on them. They are what they are and we (guys like you) can continue to try to get them closer - in some ways they are closer and in some ways they just don't come close and v2.1 starts sounding better.

 

Mark

[GLP122751]

Hi everybody,

 

Thanks for the feedback. Mark (Hey_Joe), I think I did try those out at one point, but honestly I never played around too much with the old Variax Workbench (besides some custom tunings, and a Tele model with P-90s) because the models closely matched my taste, so it never really seemed necessary... :-/

 

Either way, I tried a new approach using a spectrum analyzer and ended up with these (attached). However, after trying them in a more musical context, I think they're actually further away than the first version.

 

Something in the pickups of the new Strat model is quite different in personality from the old ones. There's a kind of "presence peak" on the old one around 3-4kHz which the new one lacks, and there's considerably less bass (120Hz or so and below) on the new one. On the other hand, the new one has more lower mids like 1-2kHz, and more extended highs (5k and above).

 

The trouble is that there's only so much you can do in Workbench that's obvious, beyond trial and error. While it's theoretically possible that some combination of pickups, bodies, pots, etc. would get closer to the old Strat model than anything I've tried here, it's probably going to be something off-the-wall that I haven't tried... And I've tried quite a few off-the-wall things.

 

If there was a "resonant peak" frequency + amplitude setting per pickup (labeled in Hz and dB of course, while I'm daydreaming), I think it would be possible to pretty much nail it.

 

As it is, I think I'm going to just go back to the factory 2.1 models and re-do my HD500 settings to accommodate. It's rare that I change guitar models within a patch, and now that you can move the 5-way without the physical model knob position "taking over," it seems like the new paradigm is to imagine changing guitars through the HD500 patch model force, then using the pickup switch and knobs on that guitar.

 

It's been fun though! Thanks,

 

Matt

Finally an intelligent reason that seems to explain the difference from the old version and the new. I rather prefer 1.9 vs 2.1. What ever Strat they used lacks a lot to be desired. Can't understand the need to drastically change a guitar in workbench (which I find limited) to achive something that was advertised yet as far as I see was not delivered. I find the guitars useless and not up to par sorry that's how I feel. Hopefully the next software update will achieve a more realistic guitar model.

 

 

[clay-man]

Really

 

 

Finally an intelligent reason that seems to explain the difference from the old version and the new. I rather prefer 1.9 vs 2.1. What ever Strat they used lacks a lot to be desired. Can't understand the need to drastically change a guitar in workbench (which I find limited) to achive something that was advertised yet as far as I see was not delivered. I find the guitars useless and not up to par sorry that's how I feel. Hopefully the next software update will achieve a more realistic guitar model.

 

 

 

 

Really? Because that's their concern, because 1 guy said it's not real?

 

It's real, and is probably more real than the old models, the problem is the strat they modeled.

[GLP122751]

Really

 

 

Really? Because that's their concern, because 1 guy said it's not real?

 

It's real, and is probably more real than the old models, the problem is the strat they modThis is why I don't really care for posting my opinions... just don't like bullies

 

 

This is why I don't really care for posting my opinions... just don't like bullies

 

 

[clay-man]

 

This is why I don't really care for posting my opinions... just don't like bullies

 

 

 

 

Compared to you taking pot shots at Line 6 for no reason? Your wording are daggers at best, not any constructive criticism.

 

2.10 is more real than the older models, the problem is the guitar they're modeling.

 

Did you really need to downvote me stating the fact of how powerful Workbench is? No. I get if you didn't like me calling you out saying that "2.10 is unrealistic", but seriously.

Now if you're done making crap personal then we can move along. 

[GLP122751]

 

This is why I don't really care for posting my opinions... just don't like bullies

 

 

 

ot sure what your problem is and to be honest don't really care. I will state how I feel about a product I have invested in especially one that I FEEL has not delivered I my opinion. Which is my right to do so and no one has a right to tell me how to think or what to say. Defend line6 all you want that's your right but give me the same respect to state how I feel. No one has denied you that but you feel it's OK to attack me personally in your responses to my statements. Yet I have never once singled anyone out just because I didn't like their opinions.

[clay-man]

Then why did you freak out when I said that it was kind of off the wall to state that their modeling is faker?

 

I've already stated, the modeling is not the problem, it's the type of strat they used.

The fact is that a decent Variax user will be used to the tonality of the old firmware, so when they released the new firmware with different a strat (and the other guitars people complain about) being modeled, it threw everyone off guard.

 

I seriously doubt they'd waste theirs, and our time using inferior modeling techniques to replace the old one. Whether or not you like the sounds of the guitars they used, it has more clarity now and they've obviously worked carefully on the new modeling.

 

If you truly want a strat sound to your liking, then tell them to add another strat to the roster in workbench to choose from on ideascale.

You have the option to roll back if you truly do not like the new models. It's not going to really break any features if you do.

[BigBob-Irwin]

Thanks for this managed to download and update guitar I like these sounds a lot better than the presets

[stumblinman]

Just tried this. Very happy with it. My only niggle is that the middle position is loud compared to the others. Well, loud to me. Personal opinion. But very nice sounding! Two thumbs up!

[SirChipALot]

Holy crap Matt! I've been so disappointed with the 2.0 Strat sounds, but loved the newer Telecasters and Les Pauls. These models sound so much richer and the bell tones of the 4th position were sorely missed. Can't believe it took me this long to find your bundle. Thanks dood!

[Hockeynut19]

Holy crap Matt! I've been so disappointed with the 2.0 Strat sounds, but loved the newer Telecasters and Les Pauls. These models sound so much richer and the bell tones of the 4th position were sorely missed. Can't believe it took me this long to find your bundle. Thanks dood!

 

I agree just loaded them into custom 1 . Wonder what Strat they modeled, I have a '57 Strat American made reissue made in '94 it kills their model. These from Matt are really good. Thank you Matt!

[mdmayfield]

Thanks a lot guys! Glad it's useful.

[cruisinon2]

I've been using this bundle for a while now. 2.1 Strat models is dreadful. Old ones didn't need changing. You don't always have to reinvent the wheel...

[DrSexBob]

Yeah +1, These are a huge improvement, It more comes down to the volume leveling etc that the new Spank has, just doesn't sound close to any Strat I've gotten close to! Volume leveling across the board is really only Variax HD's major issue otherwise!

 

 

Cheers again Matt!

[Toni-LD65]

Many thanks, they have a lot more kick. Thanks for your hard work. :)

[Blgband]

Lol 😂 well not trying to be a troll here..... but why waste time on this new firmware Hd. IMOFO it all soinds the same, i feel that there is only 3 different sounds and as you change bodies there is really a small change. Im talking from a clean player (no distortion

) point of view here.

 

Lol 1.71 just rules.

if it had the blend function i would be too busy.....would not have time to check this forum as i would playing my guitar lol

[jshoenfelt]

Can't wait to try these.  Thank you so much.