Jump to content
Bangha

Tuner

Recommended Posts

FWIW I am dead serious about this. 

 

Sorry. I just felt like a little levity was in order at this point. To offend was not my intent.

 

Sure there is still the occasional person who does not find the tuner reactive or accurate enough but they are the extremely rare exception. If you look far enough back at the old tuner threads there were a ton of complaints that the tuner was not "granular" enough and that it read in tune even when it was not. There were few or NO complaints about it being jumpy. A few firmware versions ago they responded to the complaints regarding granularity with a firmware revision that made the tuner readout more granular and added the second tuning bar. That is when the complaints about it being too jumpy started and the complaints about granularity pretty much ended. Let's not start revising history by saying the complaints were alternating. We have moved from a stable tuner that people perceived as not responsive enough to a jumpy tuner that I suppose you could describe as overly responsive. We just need to find a way to leverage the increased/improved granularity with a less jumpy readout or one that offers a momentary freeze (as discussed ad nauseam).

 

This makes a whole lot of sense.

 

I don't find the tuner unusable by any means; I just find it slower than any other tuner that I've used. Both bands that I work with consistently go from one song straight into the next one and there are very few breaks for stage banter. I usually have to tune during a 4 or 8 bar break where guitar lays out. To add insult to injury, my guitars are set up with floating bridges which take longer to tune than non-floating or hard tail bridges. To summarize, I have to tune up quickly. It's not a major issue, but it is an issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It works fine if you select a particular pickup, turn the volume down, turn the tone knob down, play gently, and take lots of time.

In other words it's good enough for playing at home. Adequate for that purpose.

It is not good enough for gigs though.

I honestly never really worry about doing all that, and it still works fine for me. I've played plenty of gigs with it... I've used it on everything - electric, acoustic, mandolin, nylon string, and bass.

 

I'm genuinely puzzled as to why it's so polarizing... I do wonder if comes down to the way people pluck their strings while tuning or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry. I just felt like a little levity was in order at this point. To offend was not my intent.

 

 

This makes a whole lot of sense.

 

I don't find the tuner unusable by any means; I just find it slower than any other tuner that I've used. Both bands that I work with consistently go from one song straight into the next one and there are very few breaks for stage banter. I usually have to tune during a 4 or 8 bar break where guitar lays out. To add insult to injury, my guitars are set up with floating bridges which take longer to tune than non-floating or hard tail bridges. To summarize, I have to tune up quickly. It's not a major issue, but it is an issue.

 

I don't find it unusable either, as you say it just takes too long to get correctly in tune. It is fine if you are in your home recording studio where the extra sensitivity may be handy for getting exactly in tune but it takes too long in a live situation. It even makes my bandmates antsy waiting for it in rehearsals. I have to stress I have never been obsessive about tuning although I like being in tune, I just want to quickly get "close enough for rock & roll" and be done with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had my Korg DT-10 tuner for almost 10 years now and just recently I bought a new polytune because the korg and the helix don't agree on what in-tune is. And I figured there was no way the helix was wrong. Well my polytune just arrived today and now it doesn't agree with my helix. It's showing well more than a 3 cent difference on some strings (like low E). How can this be? Which one is wrong?

 

Also - I don't find the helix tuner jumpy at all. I just want to be in tune. THe korg dt-10 and polytune agree. The helix is reporting flat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure there is still the occasional person who does not find the tuner reactive or accurate enough but they are the extremely rare exception. If you look far enough back at the old tuner threads there were a ton of complaints that the tuner was not "granular" enough and that it read in tune even when it was not. There were few or NO complaints about it being jumpy. A few firmware versions ago they responded to the complaints regarding granularity with a firmware revision that made the tuner readout more granular and added the second tuning bar. That is when the complaints about it being too jumpy started and the complaints about granularity pretty much ended. Let's not start revising history by saying the complaints were alternating. We have moved from a stable tuner that people perceived as not responsive or granular enough to a jumpy tuner that I suppose you could describe as overly responsive. We just need to find a way to leverage the increased/improved granularity with a less jumpy readout or one that offers a momentary freeze (as discussed ad nauseam).

Precisely.

 

There really is no need for a tuner to be controversial. The fact that it is shows there is something wrong with Helix tuner. For those of you who have tried them, display luminosity aside) have you found tuning issues with polytune or boss tuners?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The tuner is not a strong point of the Helix. It's just that simple.

I tried using it for a while (got my Helix in Oct of 2015). But I've given up on it over the last few months. 

I put my old Boss chromatic tuner pedal between my guitar and Helix. 
Fast, PRECISE tuning with that 20+ year old tuner . 

I remember going through a lot of tuners back in the 1980's looking for one that was accurate and easy to use. And the literature of the time touted the Boss as being great at capturing the note and "stabilizing" it.

And that's how I'd describe the difference. For some reason the Helix tuner can't seem to zero in on the note and jumps all around. The Boss "old" technology is able to grab that note and lock it down to be tuned. 

I hooked up my Korg rack mount chromatic tuner before the Boss tuner which is before the Helix just to test. I also put my TC Electronic Polytune clip on tuner on my headstock. 
Hit the low "E"...all the tuners captured the note and had it stable for me to tune, except the Helix. The Helix tuner was jumping sharp to flat and just never settled down. 

I tried it with different guitars too. My main two axes I'm using at gigs right now are my Floyd Rose Redmond Series Model K and my Fender Custom Shop Jeff Beck strat. Same results: all my other tuners stable and Helix jumping. 
Hooked up my old Les Paul...same thing.  Ibanez RG Prestige 2020....same thing. 

Not sure what the problem is with getting that tuner to calm down. But yes...I have the same "tuner problem" with Helix as has been reported by others. I just "fixed it" by putting my Boss tuner pedal in there.   :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found that my Helix does not like guitars with a quick decay, because it seems a bit slow on tracking. I've no issues with guitars with plenty of sustain, where I can pick and let the tuner tracking the note, while tuning, but it's working twitchy with guitars with low output and quick decay, where I need to pick multiple times (which is not good as every pick has its own overtones and variables). The best way I've found (for me) to tune with Helix is to NOT pick multiple times, just once, and tuning while decaying.

 

So yeah, I've no issues with some guitars, but can be twitchy and jumpy with others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found that my Helix does not like guitars with a quick decay, because it seems a bit slow on tracking. I've no issues with guitars with plenty of sustain, where I can pick and let the tuner tracking the note, while tuning, but it's working twitchy with guitars with low output and quick decay, where I need to pick multiple times (which is not good as every pick has its own overtones and variables). The best way I've found (for me) to tune with Helix is to NOT pick multiple times, just once, and tuning while decaying.

 

So yeah, I've no issues with some guitars, but can be twitchy and jumpy with others.

I know there's some debate about it, but I think you're much better off tuning to the initial attack of a string rather than the decay. Actually, when I think of trying to tune to the decay, it seems like it would be very difficult. I mean, with some instruments like mandolins or nylon string guitars there is virtually no sustain anyway. Perhaps this is why some people find the tuner frustrating. I try to hit the strings hard when tuning and in quick succession. If I get a couple of the initial hits to light up both greens for a few hits, I consider that in tune. A string will naturally fall off a few cents while it rings out anyway. But if you figure, most of what you're hearing with guitar, especially when playing chords, is the initial attack of the strings.

 

The other thing I would say that has helped me with nearly ever tuner I've ever used is that I hardly ever tune a string from sharp to in pitch. Even if a string reads sharp at first, I will usually tune it flats and then go back up to pitch. It just always seems to be more stable that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The tuner is not a strong point of the Helix. It's just that simple.

 

I tried using it for a while (got my Helix in Oct of 2015). But I've given up on it over the last few months. 

 

I put my old Boss chromatic tuner pedal between my guitar and Helix. 

Fast, PRECISE tuning with that 20+ year old tuner . 

 

<<<Snip>>>

 

Not sure what the problem is with getting that tuner to calm down. But yes...I have the same "tuner problem" with Helix as has been reported by others. I just "fixed it" by putting my Boss tuner pedal in there.   :)

 

 

This is just an unacceptable solution to me.  The purpose of the Helix (for many of us) is to rid ourselves of multiple pedals and simplify to one "do-it-all" board.  I shouldn't have to now go buy a tuning pedal to put in front of it.

 

I don't expect it to be "the best tuner evaaaaa" since it's not a stand-alone purpose-made tuner, BUT I do expect it to be reasonably accurate and user friendly.  From all the reports I've seen - it's currently not those things. And in my opinion, it's certainly not.  Yet.  I think they can get there ... and should!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I most certainly don't want to insult anyone... but are some of ya just doing it wrong? I find it weird that I have zero problems with 5 different instruments and some of y'all can't get your guitars in tune at all with it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is just an unacceptable solution to me. The purpose of the Helix (for many of us) is to rid ourselves of multiple pedals and simplify to one "do-it-all" board. I shouldn't have to now go buy a tuning pedal to put in front of it.

 

I don't expect it to be "the best tuner evaaaaa" since it's not a stand-alone purpose-made tuner, BUT I do expect it to be reasonably accurate and user friendly. From all the reports I've seen - it's currently not those things. And in my opinion, it's certainly not. Yet. I think they can get there ... and should!

Well, a 20-year Boss TU-2 certainly doesn't have the same accuracy as the Helix tuner. By its own specs, it's accurate to +/- 3 cents. The internal Helix tuning engine is capable of an accuracy of +/- 0.1 cents, and with the display, we have resolution or granularity of 1 cent. I simply will never agree to a statement saying that it's inaccurate. I mean, I've been using the Helix for over two years now (I got my beta unit in April 2015), and have used it live a ton of times with all sort of musicians including classically-trained, professional string players. If there were an issue with my instruments being out of tune, it certainly would have come up at some point. But they've always been fine.

 

Btw, I don't agree that all previous Line 6 processors had tuners that were universally loved. I remember reading complaints about the tuners from people on nearly every Line 6 product over the years. Normally, it was something to the effect of, "it's nowhere near as accurate as my Peterson Strobe" or something like that... Which was probably not unfair. I think previous Line 6 tuners were more in line with the old Boss tuners - probably around +/-3 cent range.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know there's some debate about it, but I think you're much better off tuning to the initial attack of a string rather than the decay. Actually, when I think of trying to tune to the decay, it seems like it would be very difficult. I mean, with some instruments like mandolins or nylon string guitars there is virtually no sustain anyway. Perhaps this is why some people find the tuner frustrating. I try to hit the strings hard when tuning and in quick succession. If I get a couple of the initial hits to light up both greens for a few hits, I consider that in tune. A string will naturally fall off a few cents while it rings out anyway. But if you figure, most of what you're hearing with guitar, especially when playing chords, is the initial attack of the strings.

 

The other thing I would say that has helped me with nearly ever tuner I've ever used is that I hardly ever tune a string from sharp to in pitch. Even if a string reads sharp at first, I will usually tune it flats and then go back up to pitch. It just always seems to be more stable that way.

 

I've a stroboplus which is for me my benchmark, so I did check various ways to tune with the Helix and tuning on the attack gave me the worst result. This is what usually happen with a Tele that I have, which has a crazy glassy peak and quick decay, so I'm forced to tune that way (multiple pick, tuning on the attack as the tracking drops pretty quickly). Well if I check this guitar with the stroboblus just after Helix (which I do have in a send from the Helix) it's never in tune, just a mix of sharp and flat. That same guitar does tune perfectly through the Stroboplus. At the opposite, when I tune on a different guitar (which has a crazy sustain and does ring forever), I just pick and wait the tracking to stabilize (while tuning the string) and that works much better for me, and it's usually confirmed on the stroboplus. I'm not talking about 10 seconds here, just 1 or 2 seconds after picking. I'm not really a shredder and I think I do have a pretty gentle picking and also does happen I tune on the fly with no pick at all.

 

Also, with the stroboplus I always tune on the decay, as wouldn't work very fine on the attack. I know the theory about the attack is where you perceive most of the pitch but for some reason this is not being confirmed by the tools I tried. I don't think there is a correct way to tune. I think it's always a matter of finding the best set between player style, tuner and guitar/pickup.

 

I do have a good pack of guitars, and the Helix does not really work the same with all of them, at all, while the peterson does look like it doesn't really care of the guitar. It just tune whatever thing you put in. Of course I'm not expecting the Helix to be like a Peterson, so I'm ok with that, since I didn't buy the Helix to tune my guitars. Said that I'm sure it can be improved.   :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Tony for the most part. However, volume down is not usually a good move on the gig though.

My experience has shown if the volume is too low, the tuner struggles to settle down and thus more time is needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, a 20-year Boss TU-2 certainly doesn't have the same accuracy as the Helix tuner. By its own specs, it's accurate to +/- 3 cents. The internal Helix tuning engine is capable of an accuracy of +/- 0.1 cents, and with the display, we have resolution or granularity of 1 cent. I simply will never agree to a statement saying that it's inaccurate. I mean, I've been using the Helix for over two years now (I got my beta unit in April 2015), and have used it live a ton of times with all sort of musicians including classically-trained, professional string players. If there were an issue with my instruments being out of tune, it certainly would have come up at some point. But they've always been fine.

 

 

I hear ya - and I wasn't implying in my post that the Boss was more accurate.  That's awesome that the helix tuning engine can detect to +/- 0.1 cents.  BUT, respectfully, that level of precision does no good if it's too jumpy for the user to land on the note.  To me (my opinion), precision does not equal accuracy if in the real world, users can't take advantage of that precision in a typical use case (between songs, on stage, for example).

 

No one is asking for more precision (either detection of +/- 0.1 cents or display of +/- 1 cent), that I can see.  We want it to be able to lock in more readily and stay locked in.  And the fact that this apparently keeps coming up from enough users, says there's room for improvement. IMHO.

 

I've had my say (several times at this point, lol) - so I'll bow out and not contribute to beating the dead horse any longer.

 

I respect everyone's opinions - and Phil_M - thanks for yours.  The fact that you find it acceptable is great, and encourages me to continue to work with it and try various ways to make it work for me.  (But I'll still hold out hope for some software improvements).

 

Rock on folks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The tuner could be better. Less jumpy. But not everyone agrees. Next.......

Dream on!! This cat is coming back - we all know it. :P

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, I don't know what others are expecting, but I was just hoping that it would be able to tune quickly and easily like my current gen polytune tuner pedal. (I know, I realize it's a dedicated tuning pedal)

 

I'm not even talking about the multiple strings tuning, I'd like like them to read out similarly. I do use the polytune in strobe mode, but It's always been accurate for me and the readout for it has been great.

 

I'll try using the helix tuner again tonight (just updated to 2.20 and haven't used it to tune after my initial tests).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The tuner could be better. Less jumpy. But not everyone agrees. Next.......

 

For the life of me I do not get this kind of reasoning. Many of us are unhappy with the tuner and find it troublesome to work with it.

 

I accept the fact it's good to some of you, please accept the fact it is not good or useable in a professional environment for a great number of us.

 

Please accept our expectation of having a tuner we are comfortable with in Helix. This is no fancy or ludicrous request is it?

 

If tuner discussion is not your cup of tea, I do recommend not reading more of this thread. Maybe go tune your guitar instead ;) (that should keep you busy for a while :D )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I most certainly don't want to insult anyone... but are some of ya just doing it wrong? I find it weird that I have zero problems with 5 different instruments and some of y'all can't get your guitars in tune at all with it...

Peter, no insult taken. I find it varies from instrument to instrument and even string to string. I was tuning my PRS Custom 24 a few minutes ago, and the high E is easy to tune. As I make my way down the lower strings, tuning stability get incrementally worse, until the tuner just won't hold still on my low E. Pick hard, pick soft, different pickups, tone up, tone rolled off the result is the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... BUT, respectfully, that level of precision does no good if it's too jumpy for the user to land on the note...

 

 

This fact might be key.

 

The tuner is more accurate, perhaps, than the string... Seriously... I think it is the granularity and accuracy of the tuner which makes it a GOOD tuner that is throwing some of you.

 

Either that or you're all tuning DOWN to the note... or something'...

 

btw, are we talking new strings? Because old dead strings are really tough to tune anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the life of me I do not get this kind of reasoning. Many of us are unhappy with the tuner and find it troublesome to work with it.

 

I accept the fact it's good to some of you, please accept the fact it is not good or useable in a professional environment for a great number of us.

 

Please accept our expectation of having a tuner we are comfortable with in Helix. This is no fancy or ludicrous request is it?

 

If tuner discussion is not your cup of tea, I do recommend not reading more of this thread. Maybe go tune your guitar instead ;) (that should keep you busy for a while :D )

I should have been more clear. I agree the tuner could be better. It is the worst tuner of all the multi FX unit tuners I've used (About 5). But I have no doubt Line 6 is aware of the unpopularity of it. So mentioning it is good. And now that it has been mentioned again...Next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the life of me I do not get this kind of reasoning. Many of us are unhappy with the tuner and find it troublesome to work with it.

 

I accept the fact it's good to some of you, please accept the fact it is not good or useable in a professional environment for a great number of us.

 

Please accept our expectation of having a tuner we are comfortable with in Helix. This is no fancy or ludicrous request is it?

 

If tuner discussion is not your cup of tea, I do recommend not reading more of this thread. Maybe go tune your guitar instead ;) (that should keep you busy for a while :D )

 

It's fine that not everyone likes it... Not everyone like the Polytune pedal... Not everyone likes a Peterson Strobe. Not everyone likes a Boss TU-2 or TU-3... Do you see what I'm getting at? Trying to design something that pleases all users is an impossible task. I mean, what should they do? Put every feature up for a popular vote?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't "like" or "dislike" the Helix tuner. 

 

Well, a 20-year Boss TU-2 certainly doesn't have the same accuracy as the Helix tuner. By its own specs, it's accurate to +/- 3 cents. The internal Helix tuning engine is capable of an accuracy of +/- 0.1 cents, and with the display, we have resolution or granularity of 1 cent. I simply will never agree to a statement saying that it's inaccurate. 

My Korg DTR 2000 rackmount tuner has that same accuracy spec. I can tune with it fast, while the Helix tuner is still jumping around.
That's the point. It's not accuracy...it's the instability. 

I also can say that the tuner on my 17 year old Roland VGA-7 modeling amp works perfectly too. 

The Helix tuner just needs to get more stable and zero-in on the note I'm trying to tune. 

I went through a half-dozen of my guitars...and a ton of tuners I have here: Helix, Korg DTR2000, Boss Tuner Pedal, VGA-7 amp's tuner, clip-on tuner, and even an old Furman Power Conditioner with a built in tuner.
They all seem to excel at "grabbing" the note quickly and allowing me to tune fast. 
The Helix...jumpy. It never seems to sit still for even a few milliseconds.

I'm hopeful that they will find a way to fix that in the future. 
Back in Oct. of 2015 when I first got my Helix the FIRST thing I bragged about to the other guitarist in the band I was in was: "Check out how BIG the tuner is! I can see this baby on any stage!"

So I want to use the Helix tuner. But I can't stand around onstage tuning for 2 or 3 minutes. I need to get in tune within seconds.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not really about like or not. It's just about being more or less "reliable" in various conditions, which for my personal experience, it is not (yet).

 

As we believe you guys being totally happy with it, you should accept and believe other users who are not getting your same experience.

 

You may not like my Peterson (whatever this means), but it does never skip a beat and I could not care less to endorse one or the other product. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't "like" or "dislike" the Helix tuner. 

 

My Korg DTR 2000 rackmount tuner has that same accuracy spec. I can tune with it fast, while the Helix tuner is still jumping around.

That's the point. It's not accuracy...it's the instability. 

 

I also can say that the tuner on my 17 year old Roland VGA-7 modeling amp works perfectly too. 

 

The Helix tuner just needs to get more stable and zero-in on the note I'm trying to tune. 

 

I went through a half-dozen of my guitars...and a ton of tuners I have here: Helix, Korg DTR2000, Boss Tuner Pedal, VGA-7 amp's tuner, clip-on tuner, and even an old Furman Power Conditioner with a built in tuner.

They all seem to excel at "grabbing" the note quickly and allowing me to tune fast. 

The Helix...jumpy. It never seems to sit still for even a few milliseconds.

 

I'm hopeful that they will find a way to fix that in the future. 

Back in Oct. of 2015 when I first got my Helix the FIRST thing I bragged about to the other guitarist in the band I was in was: "Check out how BIG the tuner is! I can see this baby on any stage!"

 

So I want to use the Helix tuner. But I can't stand around onstage tuning for 2 or 3 minutes. I need to get in tune within seconds.

 

All I can say is I don't have this issue, so it's hard for me to understand how others' experiences are so different. I have used the Helix with probably a dozen different electric, several acoustics, and the other stuff I mentioned, and the note is registered right away... It certainly doesn't take me 2-3 minutes to tune. I have the same time limitations as other players. I'm tuning between songs or during other breaks as I get a chance.

 

I think the reason people are reacting is because one group of people is saying, "this is unusable!", and the other is saying, "I use it all the time - it works fine!"... So, I don't know... Really hard for me to understand why it causes such different reactions, and why the experiences seem so different.

 

I do like the idea of getting two users together in the same room - one that likes and one that hates it - and observing the differences...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's fine that not everyone likes it... Not everyone like the Polytune pedal... Not everyone likes a Peterson Strobe. Not everyone likes a Boss TU-2 or TU-3... Do you see what I'm getting at? Trying to design something that pleases all users is an impossible task. I mean, what should they do? Put every feature up for a popular vote?

Phil, let’s be serious for a second. Nobody suggested putting up every feature up for popular vote, let’s not take things out of context. The wonderful thing about Helix is the plethora of alternatives it provides allowing everyone to find their favorite amps, distortions, time-based and modulation effects. Not every model will suit everyone, and that’s magic.

 

The tuner on the other hand is not a model with esoteric tonal qualities. It is a standard tool, with small variations from brand to brand but they all work the same way with the same principle in mind, getting in tune quickly, accurately and efficiently. There is no need for popular vote on that. It’s a fact. The issue at hand is the tuner is failing at this.

 

I have NEVER come across a tuner that will not allow me to tune to pitch, and I’ve used every kind (at least every popular one) for the past couple of decades and they work flawlessly (although some people might prefer one model or another). Using any and all of those tuners as a baseline I can safely say the Helix tuner is not allowing me, and quite obviously many others to tune quickly, accurately and efficiently. In our perspective this IS a problem and we would appreciate it being solved by making Helix as good a tuner as every other one we have used before.

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The tuner on the other hand is not a model with esoteric tonal qualities. It is a standard tool, with small variations from brand to brand but they all work the same way with the same principle in mind, getting in tune quickly, accurately and efficiently. There is no need for popular vote on that. It’s a fact. The issue at hand is the tuner is failing at this.

 

 

For you, though... Not for everyone... Don't you find it odd that there's such a broad variation of experience? What do you think accounts for that? How is it I can use it with no problem for all of my guitars? Or do believe I'm not telling the truth?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Phil, it doesn't make any sense to me that my tuner is pretty much unuseable, but the one on your Helix (and other people's) is just fine. 

All I know is that a tuner is a tuner. As Bangha just said...it SHOULD be able to be used to tune fast and accurately. Helix just jumps around the whole time. Even when I finally get a string in tune...I can pluck the string again and it's reading as out of tune by a few cents...and then proceeds to jump sharp and flat by a few cents. 
It drives me nuts! lol

That's why I stuck the TU-2 in front of Helix. Accurate and fast. 

I don't WANT to do that. But I have one sitting here...so why not use it instead of whining about the Helix not behaving the way every tuner I've ever used since 1978 does? 

I have a question for ya...IF the tuner does have a problem with being "jumpy", would that be a hardware issue that just can't be solved? Or a software issue that might be resolved with a firmware update?
And of course, since you and many others don't even have this problem on your own Helices...it makes the chances of ever "fixing" mine even more remote I suppose. :(

I guess it might be one of those weird things that happen on some folks units and not on others?  I do seriously doubt that anyone on this forum doesn't know how to use a tuner or are "doing it wrong". That's just a foolish thought. We've all successfully used tuners since the day we got serious about playing. 
So to say that only the Helix presents some kind of skill-set challenge to tune with isn't even a real possibility. 

You turn on tuner. You hit string, You tune string. Done. 
Not exactly rocket science. 
So when I tell you that my roomful of guitars are darn near impossible to tune with my Helix...but easily tuned with every other tuner I use....you can believe what I'm saying. :)

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For you, though... Not for everyone... Don't you find it odd that there's such a broad variation of experience? What do you think accounts for that? How is it I can use it with no problem for all of my guitars? Or do believe I'm not telling the truth?

 

For me and a vast number of posters in this thread. I do find it odd indeed. But I leave the software mystery solving to the professional programmers. I am a musician that needs a tuner that works, just like any and every other tuner in the market does. Considering the models of everything else are so good. Any chance of getting a couple of tuner models? :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One strategy I've been trying recently is to ignore the high-res top display, at least until all strings line up on the bottom one, which jumps around a lot less. It's less accurate of course, but it bothers me less.

 

I'm new to HX but this is the way I've done it since day 1.  It just seemed fruitless to look at the fine indicator before lining up the rough one.  I wonder if it might help cue folks better if the fine indicator was inactive / grayed out until the pitch got to within a certain number of cents of the correct pitch.

 

 

All I can say is I don't have this issue, so it's hard for me to understand how others' experiences are so different. I have used the Helix with probably a dozen different electric, several acoustics, and the other stuff I mentioned, and the note is registered right away... It certainly doesn't take me 2-3 minutes to tune. I have the same time limitations as other players. I'm tuning between songs or during other breaks as I get a chance.

 

As I mentioned above, I have no issues either.  Thing is that a number of folks do and it's hard to believe that operator error is the cause in something as simple as using a tuner.  Heck, I generally tune using the bridge pickup with tone on 10.  It might be useful to get data from folks about their satisfaction with the tuner and the gear used:

  • Active vs. Passive
  • Humbucker vs. Single Coil
  • Cabled vs. Wireless
  • Heavy picks vs Light picks vs No picks
  • etc.

That might give some indication of the commonalities across those experiencing issues and some clues about why some folks are struggling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some very entertaining responses here but apparently "denial" is not just a river in Egypt. I cannot believe what I am hearing on this thread as people try to think and talk there way out of a problem that requires action in the form of a fix, not more "investigation" and discussion. Should we set up a multi-lateral committee to do an in depth analysis and produce a two hundred page report on the tuner? Now we are actually entertaining notions that the complaints about the tuner are due to "people not using it correctly". Seriously? A tuner is a dead simple device to use for the most part and the complaints are largely coming from players who are out performing so let's give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that if they are good enough to be paid to play most of them have probably mastered the complex art of operating a tuner. Although I appreciate the instructions regarding how to set the volume and tone and how to pluck the string, etc., I also find them inane. What performing musician has time for this kind of nonsense during a show and should a tuner really require custom guitar settings to operate properly?

 

It is absolutely no fun and comes off as most unprofessional to be in the position of having a band or audience waiting as you try to get in tune with the Helix tuner. I have had to launch into many a song fully cognizant that my tuning was a bit off because we simply don't have the luxury of waiting for the Helix tuner to settle down and give me a definitive reading.

 

These issues where a problem only effects a subset of the users tend to be the hardest ones to resolve because not everyone experiences the pain. In this case though that subset of users are the players who use the Helix for performance. That seems like a large enough group having a problem with a basic and critical MFX feature to be worth considering. Due to its granularity and responsiveness the tuner may be ideal for studio use. If you are not using the Helix for live performance I totally understand why you feel the tuner's sensitivity is not an issue or perhaps even a virtue. If you own a guitar(s) that happens to work perfectly with the Helix tuner I also get it. If you are one of the forum members who do beta testing and are therefor loosely affiliated with Line6 I also understand. No offence because you guys tirelessly help with the really challenging issues on the forum and are a critical resource but watching your responses on this issue is like reading a climate change report written by the lead scientist at Exxon. I can't help but think you are a bit biased. If I were in your position I would have given up the debate by now out of sheer exhaustion and gotten to work with Line6 to fix this thing. IMHO the tuner undeniably has issues for live use, ultimately I think these tuner threads will and should persist until it gets fixed.

 

I understand the frustration (disgust?) of the developers or DI who delivered what people were asking for, a more granular tuner, and are yet again being asked to revisit it. The tuner is 90% there. The display is large and incredibly easy to see on a dark stage. The added second tuning bar provides great granularity. It is already eminently usable for home studios. This tuner could be magnificent, it just needs another revision to make it stage ready. Let's dispense with the chit-chat already and just fix this thing. Once the jumpiness is resolved we can revisit the tuner in new threads dedicated to requesting that it be polyphonic and include alternate tunings... :D

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I meant to ignore the fine indicator until ALL strings are coarsely in tune.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have found that the tuner has been greatly improved, but I still cannot rely on it 100%. I still keep my Polytune clips on my guitars. The most issues I notice now are in the lower frequencies around the low E string (E2/82.41hz). It will be stable for almost a full second, then just goes bonkers no mater what guitar/pickup configuration I am on. I do hit the string at a consistently soft attack, so that is not a contributor. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot believe what I am hearing on this thread as people try to think and talk there way out of a problem that requires action in the form of a fix, not more "investigation" and discussion. 

 

Dunno if this was (partially) directed at me but I'd give the folks at L6 enough credit that if the tuner is having the sorts of issues you describe, the most likely reason it hasn't been patched is because they don't have a good way to replicate it.  I see too many examples of terrific customer service to assume they don't care and figure they're smart enough to find a solution if they can identify the issue.  

 

You are of course free to assume that the powers that be don't give a whit about your tuner issues but that doesn't really fit in with the overall behavior of the organization, at least from my perspective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I meant to ignore the fine indicator until ALL strings are coarsely in tune.

I ignore the fine indicator on a string-by-string basis.  I just use the trick of tuning the high-pitched strings before the low-pitched ones.  It minimizes the iterations of running through the strings with a floating trem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Tony for the most part. However, volume down is not usually a good move on the gig though.My experience has shown if the volume is too low, the tuner struggles to settle down and thus more time is needed.

I agree (if you meant me)...

 

I like to check tuning sometimes during a song, before the chorus ends or whatever. It has to be quick and reliable, and the Helix isn't really going to do that. Sometimes I'm on a pit band gig and you have just a few seconds to check tuning, silently, and without rechecking audibly before you play again. I really wonder whether some of the people who find the Helix tuner acceptable are just using in less pressured situations. It's fine if you can take your time and fiddle around. I don't usually have that luxury.

These days I'm using the tuner on the GLXD, which does tye job much better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dunno if this was (partially) directed at me but I'd give the folks at L6 enough credit that if the tuner is having the sorts of issues you describe, the most likely reason it hasn't been patched is because they don't have a good way to replicate it.  I see too many examples of terrific customer service to assume they don't care and figure they're smart enough to find a solution if they can identify the issue.  

 

You are of course free to assume that the powers that be don't give a whit about your tuner issues but that doesn't really fit in with the overall behavior of the organization, at least from my perspective.

 

My comments were not directed at you. I genuinely do appreciate people offering workarounds. It is important to point out when a workaround has become an onerous substitute for fixing a problem. This is no reflection on the kind soul who has offered up a way to get around the issue in the interim, quite the opposite. Workarounds are extremely welcome and the people that come up with them are bloody saints!

 

Although difficulty replicating a problem does complicate trying to find a fix I have a hard time imagining that this is the case here. All it takes is having to do a couple of performances or even rehearsals and testing a few guitars to see this tuner has an issue. Observing the much more copacetic behavior of a multitude of other tuners on the market makes the jumpy behavior on the Helix tuner glaringly obvious.

 

I agree Line6 does generally have terrific customer service and nobody is saying they are not smart enough or don't care. I have no idea how you derive that from my posts. This conversation about the tuner has just been dragging on for months now and I would like to see the issue resolved. I generally find Line6 to be responsive and I am sure they are both aware of the issue and are probably trying to gauge how many people it impacts and how high a priority it is when it comes to the decision of if or when to address it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree Line6 does generally have terrific customer service and nobody is saying they are not smart enough or don't care. I have no idea how you derive that from my posts. This conversation about the tuner has just been dragging on for months now and I would like to see the issue resolved.

 

 

If you 

  1. believe they care about the problem
  2. think they're competent

What's left but to believe that the problem is either hard to isolate/identify or much harder to solve than it might appear?  If the problem is well-understood, they care about the issue, and it's truly an easy fix, why do you think it hasn't it been fixed yet?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you

  • believe they care about the problem
  • think they're competent
What's left but to believe that the problem is either hard to isolate/identify or much harder to solve than it might appear? If the problem is well-understood, they care about the issue, and it's truly an easy fix, why do you think it hasn't it been fixed yet?

Good question and I don't pretend to know why it has not been fixed yet. They may have other priorities or have not reached a consensus that it needs to be fixed. I think many or us are encouraging a fix without consensus because it does not impact all users and it never will. For all I know this issue may be perceived to be a lower priority than new effects and other features judging by some of the comments here. Perhaps these sentiments are shared by Line6; their decisions are above my pay-grade. Those of us wrestling with the tuner are just attempting to move the fix up in the queue.

 

I don't recall having said it was an easy fix although it may be. I will hazard a guess that technology that has been around for decades now and can be delivered successfully in a $19 clip-on may not be at the top of the technical difficulty pyramid. I do think it is an important fix and one that should take a high priority as a tuner that works in multiple scenarios (studio, stage) is a critical component for the Helix. The tuner, a core feature, is my number one priority as nothing else on my Helix wishlist impacts the quality of a performance as substantially as the tuner. Until it is fixed I suppose I can use another tuner but that kind of logic can ultimately be applied to swapping in an external pedal for every feature on the Helix. Using an external pedal makes sense for some of the more esoteric effects that require a whole lot of dedicated processing but basic tuner operation does not fall in that category. Besides, you want to use that thing, the Helix tuner has a hella nice display.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some very entertaining responses here but apparently "denial" is not just a river in Egypt. I cannot believe what I am hearing on this thread as people try to think and talk there way out of a problem that requires action in the form of a fix, not more "investigation" and discussion. Should we set up a multi-lateral committee to do an in depth analysis and produce a two hundred page report on the tuner? Now we are actually entertaining notions that the complaints about the tuner are due to "people not using it correctly". Seriously? A tuner is a dead simple device to use for the most part and the complaints are largely coming from players who are out performing so let's give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that if they are good enough to be paid to play most of them have probably mastered the complex art of operating a tuner. Although I appreciate the instructions regarding how to set the volume and tone and how to pluck the string, etc., I also find them inane. What performing musician has time for this kind of nonsense during a show and should a tuner really require custom guitar settings to operate properly?

 

It is absolutely no fun and comes off as most unprofessional to be in the position of having a band or audience waiting as you try to get in tune with the Helix tuner. I have had to launch into many a song fully cognizant that my tuning was a bit off because we simply don't have the luxury of waiting for the Helix tuner to settle down and give me a definitive reading.

 

These issues where a problem only effects a subset of the users tend to be the hardest ones to resolve because not everyone experiences the pain. In this case though that subset of users are the players who use the Helix for performance. That seems like a large enough group having a problem with a basic and critical MFX feature to be worth considering. Due to its granularity and responsiveness the tuner may be ideal for studio use. If you are not using the Helix for live performance I totally understand why you feel the tuner's sensitivity is not an issue or perhaps even a virtue. If you own a guitar(s) that happens to work perfectly with the Helix tuner I also get it. If you are one of the forum members who do beta testing and are therefor loosely affiliated with Line6 I also understand. No offence because you guys tirelessly help with the really challenging issues on the forum and are a critical resource but watching your responses on this issue is like reading a climate change report written by the lead scientist at Exxon. I can't help but think you are a bit biased. If I were in your position I would have given up the debate by now out of sheer exhaustion and gotten to work with Line6 to fix this thing. IMHO the tuner undeniably has issues for live use, ultimately I think these tuner threads will and should persist until it gets fixed.

 

I understand the frustration (disgust?) of the developers or DI who delivered what people were asking for, a more granular tuner, and are yet again being asked to revisit it. The tuner is 90% there. The display is large and incredibly easy to see on a dark stage. The added second tuning bar provides great granularity. It is already eminently usable for home studios. This tuner could be magnificent, it just needs another revision to make it stage ready. Let's dispense with the chit-chat already and just fix this thing. Once the jumpiness is resolved we can revisit the tuner in new threads dedicated to requesting that it be polyphonic and include alternate tunings... :D

You sum up my exact feelings with choice words H.O. Thank you.

 

There is clearly a problem that needs a solution. L6 gurus, please give us a stable tuner. We need it and Helix deserves it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...