Jump to content
Bangha

Tuner

Recommended Posts

   I now carry a snark around with me.   Which gives me another sort of anxiety, because I can never remember which gig bag/guitar case I left it in last.   

 

 

This is why I own 8 Snarks... and guess what.... sometimes I can't find one when I need it.laugh2.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 2 cents - pun intended.

 

...   I now carry a snark around with me.   Which gives me another sort of anxiety, because I can never remember which gig bag/guitar case I left it in last.   

 

Line6, yes, work on new fx, cabs, amps, etc.   But for the love of all things guitar, make the tuner better.  Helix is my be all end all pedal board/modeler/recording interface for so many things.  Give it a little love for guys like me.   Then maybe I can see my therapist less often.

 

 

This is why I own 8 Snarks... and guess what.... sometimes I can't find one when I need it.laugh2.gif

 

Grin, yet another example of how unpleasant things can be when the conversation gets "Snark"y.  I am with you guys on the clip-on for now but I hope they fix the tuner. Right now the tuner is a beautiful objet d'art most suitable to not being touched but instead admired from a safe distance for its aesthetic appeal and atomic clock level granularity.  :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No. On last Saturday's gig, I couldn't tune my low E string. Tuner was jumping around like crazy and would never settle in. And yes, I was using the neck pickup with the tone knob rolled back. Maybe that string was getting prematurely old. Or maybe the tuner needs some more work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tomorrow will be 2 weeks since I posted the Helix's Tuner Opinion Poll to TGP.

 

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/helixs-tuner-how-do-you-feel-about-its-stability.1825918/

 

In six days the Thread accumulated:

907 Views, 39 Replies, and 86 Votes.

 

The 86 Votes are split 60/40 in favor of "Helix's Tuner Stability is Steady Enough for Me!"

 

It will be intersting to see if the balance persists during the weeks to come....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say that I've never heard of a high end effects unit or modeler having a tuner that was bad enough to warrant a poll...much less one saying that 40% of people can't really use it. 
The tuner is usually a no-brainer for ease of use. Bought my first tuner in 1976....wow, I'm old! :(   Well...in the 41 years since then...never had a tuner that didn't work great, until now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another show last night with the Helix and yet another "F-" failing grade for the tuner. I try to be measured about my criticisms regarding the Helix because overall it is just phenomenal but the tuner is dismally disappointing. It is way too unstable for live use, at least for me and apparently many others. I don't know why I stubbornly persist in trying to make it work. It is just not happening. You cannot tune quickly enough with it for stage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another show last night with the Helix and yet another "F"- failing grade for the tuner. I try to be measured about my criticisms regarding the Helix because overall it is just phenomenal but the tuner is dismally disappointing. It is way too unstable for live use, at least for me and apparently many others. I don't know why I stubbornly persist in trying to make it work. It is just not happening. You cannot tune quickly enough with it for stage.

try to tune quickly with a strobe tuner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

try to tune quickly with a strobe tuner

Strobe tuners aren't great either. They're fine for use on a luthier's bench but for live, forget it. A better comparison is with the cheap little Snark tuners and the TC Polytune. You don't hear many people complaining about their accuracy and I too have made far too many excuses for the Helix's tuner. My Polytune now resides in the Helix's case because, I'm sorry, the Helix's tuner is a complete utter crap fest by comparison.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

try to tune quickly with a strobe tuner

 

 

Strobe tuners aren't great either. They're fine for use on a luthier's bench but for live, forget it. A better comparison is with the cheap little Snark tuners and the TC Polytune. You don't hear many people complaining about their accuracy and I too have made far too many excuses for the Helix's tuner. My Polytune now resides in the Helix's case because, I'm sorry, the Helix's tuner is a complete utter crap fest by comparison.

 

Have to agree with Hideout, I tend to use a strobe tuner mostly for setting intonation. All I want for stage is fast and reasonably accurate tuning. Does not have to be a perfect "A 440" as long as all the string tunings are "not perfect" in the same direction and therefor relatively in tune with each other. As others have pointed out, unless everyone on stage is using the same tuner you are not going to be in exact tune with all your band mates anyway, there is always some variance between tuners. You just don't want to be 6 cents flat on one of your own strings, 10 cents sharp on another, and then flat again on the next, etc..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In retrospect, I don't think I had any issues with the older version of the tuner and this may be a perfect example of what can sometimes go wrong when a company does listen to its customers. Not that I'd ever want them to stop. Maybe more careful scrutiny over the things people ask for. Yeah, I can hear the old adage about hindsight in my head now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In retrospect, I don't think I had any issues with the older version of the tuner and this may be a perfect example of what can sometimes go wrong when a company does listen to its customers. Not that I'd ever want them to stop. Maybe more careful scrutiny over the things people ask for. Yeah, I can hear the old adage about hindsight in my head now.

Ignore the top line and you have the old tuner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ignore the top line and you have the old tuner.

Conceptually, that's easy but in practice, not so much.

Anyone here remember the tuner on the old XTLive? I hated that pedal but I thought the tuner was, and still is, the best tuner I've seen on a pedal. Can we have that tuner back please?

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm amazed at how varied the opinions are of this tuner. I've always been sensitive to tuning downtime between songs at gigs, and the Helix gets me in tune as easily/quickly/accurately as my Polytune Mini or TurboTuner Mini. With no sarcasm intended, I think it would be great for two folks with very different opinions of its capabilities to meet and videotape themselves tuning one after the other with both the Helix and a "control" tuner, commenting along the way. Perhaps this is something we can do at the next Boston area Helix user meetup at the end of June.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ignore the top line and you have the old tuner.

I pretty much do exactly that, kinda take the top line as advice, maybe.

 

How about global settings for Tuner Resolution and Tuner Time Constant, keep everybody happy. Or not...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm amazed at how varied the opinions are of this tuner. I've always been sensitive to tuning downtime between songs at gigs, and the Helix gets me in tune as easily/quickly/accurately as my Polytune Mini or TurboTuner Mini. With no sarcasm intended, I think it would be great for two folks with very different opinions of its capabilities to meet and videotape themselves tuning one after the other with both the Helix and a "control" tuner, commenting along the way. Perhaps this is something we can do at the next Boston area Helix user meetup at the end of June.

It almost sounds like you and some others have "good" units (as far as the tuner goes) and the rest of us have "bad" ones. 

 

It just doesn't make any sense that the tuner is so sub-par to me that I have to use the BOSS chromatic tuner pedal to be able to get in tune....and yet you quickly and easily use yours with no problem.

None of us have any reason to make up what we are seeing, but it just doesn't make any sense. 

 

Can you just whip out your phone and video tape yourself running through all 6 strings on your guitar and finishing tuning in a few seconds and put it on YouTube?  I would love to see that tuner work good just one time! lol  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't been around awhile. I'm surprised this is still going on. I posted this on another board but I did a test with the tuner about two months ago. I took a Peterson HD, Peterson headstock tuner, a Korg Pitchblack headstock tuner and 4 different guitars. First I tuned. Each guitar with the Peterson HD and then tested it with headstock tuners. Iii was just a double check to make sure I tuned correctly. Then. I tried all four guitars on the. Helix. The Helix was dead on. In fact only the g and b string jumped but sharp. Then I seriously detuned the guitars and tuned with the Helix. It actually reacts very similar to the Peterson. I tuned everything with the Helix then checked with the PETERSON. It was pretty darned close. I was a little off on a few strings but nt enough that my ears detected it. I used the same method on both tuners. Hit a string and let it ring then tune. I only hit the string again if it took to long and incident get it quick enough. Now, before people split themselves in half, all this proved to me was that the Helix tuner is accurate. It doesn't jump any more than a strobe. In fqct if you just tune by the big bar alone you re probably close enough.. it does not jump. I think that is what is messing people up so bad. You could sit there all day if you expect a Peterson to stop dead on every note. In the beginning people snapped saying it wasn't precise enough so line 6 came up with this to give people a little more control. My AX8 is much quicker but it tunes like the Korg. Accurate it is, though I noticed a couple strings need tweaked every time when checking with the Peterson. I don't think there is a fix that Line 6 can do that will please everyone. All of our guitarists in our band (rotating lineup) tune with the Helix and after a learning curve all like it. But if you are coming from a headstock or stomp box tuner you may not like it if you do not take time with it . While I like it I get the gripe.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I generally will only make positive comments on a forum I am a member of. I'm new here, so I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I've had the Helix for almost 2 weeks now. I used it for the first time in church today. The tuner for me personally is just way too jumpy. Brand new strings on a brand new guitar. I've been playing guitar for over 30 years and have owned several tuners and several different digital boxes (Pod XT Live, Pod HD 500, Zoom G3, Elevenrack, Kemper, etc) It's not un-usable but it certainly is very difficult to get a guitar in tune in my limited experience with it. It's great that some of you have no issue with it. For me it's just all over the place. I would hope that Line 6 would look into it as this is such a basic feature that there should be no issue with at all. In all of the previous mentioned boxes I've never had an issue with tuning. For me it's not an accuracy thing, like others have said, it won't grab onto the note. It just flails all around. Doesn't matter what pick up I use or where the tone knob is (nor should it) it just won't lock on.

 

I was so impressed by the huge tuner display (as my sight declines with age lol) then super un-impressed it was to actually try to tune the guitar with it. Just one mans story here. I believe that all of you who say you are not struggling with the tuner....are actually NOT struggling with the tuner. It's a disappointment here, but as others for now, I'll just have to put a tuner that works for me in front of the unit. Hopefully there will be a resolution that is good for everyone coming down from Line 6 eventually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BigRalphN... thanks for your report on what yours is doing. Sounds like yours works just fine. 

Mine does not. It's jumpy on both lines. If even one of them would line up steadily and consistently I would be happy. 
What I mean by that is...let's just say I'm tuning a string, any string. The thing never seems to "settle down" and "grab" the note like every other tuner I own or ever owned does. It's constantly jumping sharp and flat like it can't make up it's "mind". 
And when I finally get the string as close as I can tell to being in "tune" (even though it's still not steady)...I can strike the same string immediately after and it will show as out of tune! 

And even all of that, that I just described, doesn't happen consistently. There's no rhyme or reason to it. 

I do believe the tuner would be very accurate IF it would only zero in on the note being tuned. 

I have a 2005 Fender Custom Shop Jeff Beck Signature Strat, a 1978 Gibson Les Paul, an Ibanez RG 2020 Prestige, a JTV89f Variax,  a 2006 Floyd Rose Redmond Series Model K retrofitted with a Floyd Pro (replacing the old speedloader for lack of strings), a 1985 Charvel Model 6, a Brian Moore I-Guitar, a 1984 original BC Rich Warlock, an Adamas Ovation acoustic/electric and a Yamaha acoustic/electric

All of those guitars tune beautifully and quickly on my Korg rackmount tuner, Boss Tu-2 tuner, the tuner on my Roland VGA-7 modeling amp, the tuner on my Roland guitar synth, my clip-on tuner, and even an old Furman Power Conditioner I have with a built in guitar tuner....lol

Only my Helix tuner (with it's beautiful huge display)  has any problems whatsoever and does the same nonsense on every guitar. 

When I'm onstage and our singer is talking between songs...I need to be able to quickly check each string in a matter of seconds to ensure I'm in tune and then the drummer is gonna count "4" and I better be ready. 
I simply can't do that with the Helix. 
So I put the Boss TU-2 in front of the Helix and it works great.

And since I have the tuner of the Helix set to mute the sound while tuning...I have it turned on simultaneously. So while the Boss is quickly showing me in tune...my darn Helix is still "nervous" and unsure if I'm sharp or flat. :(

I keep asking people but nobody has done it yet...would you mind just grabbing your cellphone and filming yourself tuning on the Helix and maybe post it on youtube and link it here? 

I just want to see the thing work. lol    
That's all I want mine to do...just let me tune fast and accurately with no jumpiness.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm amazed at how varied the opinions are of this tuner. I've always been sensitive to tuning downtime between songs at gigs, and the Helix gets me in tune as easily/quickly/accurately as my Polytune Mini or TurboTuner Mini. With no sarcasm intended, I think it would be great for two folks with very different opinions of its capabilities to meet and videotape themselves tuning one after the other with both the Helix and a "control" tuner, commenting along the way. Perhaps this is something we can do at the next Boston area Helix user meetup at the end of June.

 

 

It almost sounds like you and some others have "good" units (as far as the tuner goes) and the rest of us have "bad" ones. 

 

It just doesn't make any sense that the tuner is so sub-par to me that I have to use the BOSS chromatic tuner pedal to be able to get in tune....and yet you quickly and easily use yours with no problem.

None of us have any reason to make up what we are seeing, but it just doesn't make any sense. 

 

Can you just whip out your phone and video tape yourself running through all 6 strings on your guitar and finishing tuning in a few seconds and put it on YouTube?  I would love to see that tuner work good just one time! lol  

 

 

I haven't been around awhile. I'm surprised this is still going on. I posted this on another board but I did a test with the tuner about two months ago. I took a Peterson HD, Peterson headstock tuner, a Korg Pitchblack headstock tuner and 4 different guitars. First I tuned. Each guitar with the Peterson HD and then tested it with headstock tuners. Iii was just a double check to make sure I tuned correctly. Then. I tried all four guitars on the. Helix. The Helix was dead on. In fact only the g and b string jumped but sharp. Then I seriously detuned the guitars and tuned with the Helix. It actually reacts very similar to the Peterson. I tuned everything with the Helix then checked with the PETERSON. It was pretty darned close. I was a little off on a few strings but nt enough that my ears detected it. I used the same method on both tuners. Hit a string and let it ring then tune. I only hit the string again if it took to long and incident get it quick enough. Now, before people split themselves in half, all this proved to me was that the Helix tuner is accurate. It doesn't jump any more than a strobe. In fqct if you just tune by the big bar alone you re probably close enough.. it does not jump. I think that is what is messing people up so bad. You could sit there all day if you expect a Peterson to stop dead on every note. In the beginning people snapped saying it wasn't precise enough so line 6 came up with this to give people a little more control. My AX8 is much quicker but it tunes like the Korg. Accurate it is, though I noticed a couple strings need tweaked every time when checking with the Peterson. I don't think there is a fix that Line 6 can do that will please everyone. All of our guitarists in our band (rotating lineup) tune with the Helix and after a learning curve all like it. But if you are coming from a headstock or stomp box tuner you may not like it if you do not take time with it . While I like it I get the gripe.

 

This topic is starting to feel like the twilight zone. I cannot believe the perception of the tuner is so different among those who require it to tune quickly. For me the evidence is incontrovertible. No matter what guitar I use, new or used strings, the tuner jumps all over the place. There is no using the top or bottom line because neither of them ever settle down. It is difficult for me to believe that there are different versions of the Helix hardware such that the tuner works correctly on some but not on others but who knows? I still think it is more likely that certain guitars agree with the tuner better than others but I have yet to see one video from someone claiming they can tune quickly demonstrating the fact. To be fair no one seems to be posting jumpy tuner videos either but I have more than enough first-hand experience with that myself to know it to be true. Can a few people claiming they can tune reliably and quickly with this tuner please post a video showing reliable and fast tuning with no special tone knob or pickup settings. It is starting to feel like stories about unicorns people have seen. I would like to actually see some visual proof at this point of stable tuning on other people's Helices. It would be particularly telling to see a fast tune with the Helix tuner with a floating bridge which is always trickier than a fixed.

 

I think there is something demonstrably wrong with the tuning algorithm and I am mystified at the recent posts from people saying they can tune quickly with it using the lower bar or quite frankly at all.  I believe that they are reporting their experience honestly I just don't understand the disconnect here. Too many performers are reporting this tuner as unusable on stage. Please post a video if it is working for you and hopefully include a description of the guitar you are using.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could sit there all day if you expect a Peterson to stop dead on every note.

 

My own Peterson (stroboPlus HD) does stop dead and does NOT jump at all. It just spin, ONE DIRECTION depends if Flat or Sharp, and then stops when you are in tune. After that, if you pick again, you are still there. With the Helix, I can pick same string 10 times, and get 10 different readout, and/or just leave a note ringing for 12 seconds, and get the Helix tuner jumping from flat to sharp to flat to sharp to flat...etc.

 

I can't believe you are really comparing a Peterson to the Helix. :)

 

Of course I'm not asking Line 6 to make the Helix tuner working like a 150$ Peterson Tuner, but at least let's try to be realistic here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My own Peterson (stroboPlus HD) does stop dead and does NOT jump at all. It just spin, ONE DIRECTION depends if Flat or Sharp, and then stops when you are in tune. After that, if you pick again, you are still there. With the Helix, I can pick same string 10 times, and get 10 different readout, and/or just leave a note ringing for 12 seconds, and get the Helix tuner jumping from flat to sharp to flat to sharp to flat...etc.

 

I can't believe you are really comparing a Peterson to the Helix. :)

 

Of course I'm not asking Line 6 to make the Helix tuner working like a 150$ Peterson Tuner, but at least let's try to be realistic here.

I am not saying mine is as accurate as a Peterson. Obviously tuning first with the Peterson any tuber should read dead on after tuning. And as I stated there was adjustment needed after tuning first with the Helix. But it was close enough that unless you have perfect pitch you would not hear it. I should have stated that both of my Petersons do not jump around but the do spin left or right and seldom stop completely. The instructions even say it may only pause briefly. Once you get the hang it is noticeable. All I was staying was that mine tunes alright and is accurate. My son had a Helix also and had no tuning problems. I will see if o can get him to film me tuning. I can not hold the phone and tune at the same time. It is very possible there is quality control issues and some do not work. That would be no different why some have other issues we do not. The only way it would ever be looked at is if every single person with the issue fills out a support ticket. They need to see a certain percentage or became yo recreate the issue (comments from line 6 guys either can't reproduce or refuse to acknowledge issues). I guess I should not have posted this in either forum without video proof. I can't promise (my son is 28n married and has s busy job) but next time he stops by I will see if we can try to film something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My own Peterson (stroboPlus HD) does stop dead and does NOT jump at all. It just spin, ONE DIRECTION depends if Flat or Sharp, and then stops when you are in tune. After that, if you pick again, you are still there. With the Helix, I can pick same string 10 times, and get 10 different readout, and/or just leave a note ringing for 12 seconds, and get the Helix tuner jumping from flat to sharp to flat to sharp to flat...etc.

 

I can't believe you are really comparing a Peterson to the Helix. :)

 

Of course I'm not asking Line 6 to make the Helix tuner working like a 150$ Peterson Tuner, but at least let's try to be realistic here.

Me too. The thing I miss most about my old pedalboard is the Peterson tuner. With that I could easily check tuning during the bridge of a song and be sure I'm in tune by the time the chorus comes round. With the Helix there's no way. I think it's fine if you're at a blues jam or rehearsal or in your living room. But on a real gig, with expectations of professionalism, I can't risk it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It almost sounds like you and some others have "good" units (as far as the tuner goes) and the rest of us have "bad" ones. 

 

It just doesn't make any sense that the tuner is so sub-par to me that I have to use the BOSS chromatic tuner pedal to be able to get in tune....and yet you quickly and easily use yours with no problem.

None of us have any reason to make up what we are seeing, but it just doesn't make any sense. 

 

Can you just whip out your phone and video tape yourself running through all 6 strings on your guitar and finishing tuning in a few seconds and put it on YouTube?  I would love to see that tuner work good just one time! lol  

 

 

Hamer Artist strung with GHS Boomers 10.5-48. All strings slightly flat to start. Tuning all six strings complete in 30 seconds; I went back and checked the low E and then strummed a few chords. You will notice that I am not attempting to get the top bar to lock onto green. If the two arrows are lit, and the top bar is flickering between green and an adjacent one on either side, I move on. 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Just Startin'
Sounds like you're almost constantly picking the note.  Never thought to try that. lol
Every tuner I ever used you picked a note (or the harmonic on the 12th fret) and let it ring while you tuned.  I'm guessing you had to pick those notes real soft to do that? I would think that the actual picking of the note would throw it off a bit. 

Anyway, it looks like you are able to use the tuner. Not sure I can do that with a Floyd equipped guitar since my right hand would be turning fine tuners on the bridge as opposed to my left hand turning tuners on the neck (while picking the note over and over with my right hand).

Thank you again for taking a moment to do that for us. :)
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Just Startin'

Sounds like you're almost constantly picking the note.  Never thought to try that. lol

Every tuner I ever used you picked a note (or the harmonic on the 12th fret) and let it ring while you tuned.  I'm guessing you had to pick those notes real soft to do that? I would think that the actual picking of the note would throw it off a bit. 

 

Anyway, it looks like you are able to use the tuner. Not sure I can do that with a Floyd equipped guitar since my right hand would be turning fine tuners on the bridge as opposed to my left hand turning tuners on the neck (while picking the note over and over with my right hand).

 

Thank you again for taking a moment to do that for us. :)

 

No worries. Maybe others will post videos of their tuning rituals and we can see what additional factors have been involved :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL! I put your nickname as "Just Startin"  Sorry about that fenderod!   I guess I just looked up and saw that above the avatar and like an idiot thought that was your board name. My bad!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hamer Artist strung with GHS Boomers 10.5-48. All strings slightly flat to start. Tuning all six strings complete in 30 seconds; I went back and checked the low E and then strummed a few chords. You will notice that I am not attempting to get the top bar to lock onto green. If the two arrows are lit, and the top bar is flickering between green and an adjacent one on either side, I move on. 

 

Huge applause for getting a video up! Overall I have to say first off that that was a pretty good job of tuning quickly with the Helix, although from what I could see it was hard to confirm if the low E & A strings were ever completely in tune. I probably would not be posting about a problem with the tuner if my Helix tuner operated like the one in this video (it doesn't). It seemed like you primarily relied on the lower bar and the brackets much like the old tuner but even the upper tuner bar was much more stable and far less jumpy on your Hamer/Helix than any of my several guitars.

 

Just to be comprehensive it might be good to see the strings being tuned from a little further off the note and from both flat and sharp. I do always either stretch the string back in tune if it is sharp and close to the note, or downtune it first and then come back up to the note, so I am not overly concerned with the fact that the strings were only tuned from flat.  As many players probably know it is never good practice to tune down to a note without stretching it afterwards and confirming the tuning.

 

I am assuming your bridge was fixed. It might be worth noting that the guitar you used is a semi-hollow body. I wonder if this had anything to do with adding a bit more stability to the display due to longer sustain or different resonance characteristics than a solid body.  It would be interesting to see the strings tuned on a solid body guitar with a floating bridge. 

 

Anyway, thanks again for going to the trouble to post a video. More of these with a wider variety of guitars, bridge types(floating, fixed), and other tuning techniques would be most informative. By way of comparison my Helix tuner is nowhere near as stable as this video on either floating or fixed bridges on any of the solid body guitars I have tested and use (PRS, Les Paul, JTV Variax 69, Strat). I am very curious if my results will differ on a semi or full hollow body guitar (not that I have any intention of selecting my guitar by the criterion of which one works best with the Helix tuner).  ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MPwx0k9P-4&feature=youtu.be

 

Hamer Artist strung with GHS Boomers 10.5-48. All strings slightly flat to start. Tuning all six strings complete in 30 seconds; I went back and checked the low E and then strummed a few chords. You will notice that I am not attempting to get the top bar to lock onto green. If the two arrows are lit, and the top bar is flickering between green and an adjacent one on either side, I move on.

My tuner seems much jumpier than that one.

Maybe its because you are using heavier strings (i use 9's).

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huge applause for getting a video up! Overall I have to say first off that that was a pretty good job of tuning quickly with the Helix, although from what I could see it was hard to confirm if the low E & A strings were ever completely in tune. I probably would not be posting about a problem with the tuner if my Helix tuner operated like the one in this video (it doesn't). It seemed like you primarily relied on the lower bar and the brackets much like the old tuner but even the upper tuner bar was much more stable and far less jumpy on your Hamer/Helix than any of my several guitars.

 

Just to be comprehensive it might be good to see the strings being tuned from a little further off the note and from both flat and sharp. I do always either stretch the string back in tune if it is sharp and close to the note, or downtune it first and then come back up to the note, so I am not overly concerned with the fact that the strings were only tuned from flat.  As many players probably know it is never good practice to tune down to a note without stretching it afterwards and confirming the tuning.

 

I am assuming your bridge was fixed. It might be worth noting that the guitar you used is a semi-hollow body. I wonder if this had anything to do with adding a bit more stability to the display due to longer sustain or different resonance characteristics than a solid body.  It would be interesting to see the strings tuned on a solid body guitar with a floating bridge. 

 

Anyway, thanks again for going to the trouble to post a video. More of these with a wider variety of guitars, bridge types(floating, fixed), and other tuning techniques would be most informative. By way of comparison my Helix tuner is nowhere near as stable as this video on either floating or fixed bridges on any of the solid body guitars I have tested and use (PRS, Les Paul, JTV Variax 69, Strat). I am very curious if my results will differ on a semi or full hollow body guitar (not that I have any intention of selecting my guitar by the criterion of which one works best with the Helix tuner).  ;)

 

There's nothing different in this video than what I normally encounter on my Les Paul, Strat, Tele, and Gretsch Silver Falcon hollow body (with Bigsby).  Some using .09 strings and others using .10 strings from various manufacturers.  No problem tuning my Fender Precision Bass...all about the same. That's why I've never understood all the anxiety and fixation with the tuner.  I don't think it has anything to do with the tuner, it has to do with the user's OCD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...Every tuner I ever used you picked a note (or the harmonic on the 12th fret) and let it ring while you tuned....

 

 

I promise you, not the best way to do it. Because most of the notes you play you don't play that long. A note picked on a guitar with anything but really heavy strings will go down in pitch over time. If you hold the note and tune to one held note, you end up with a guitar that has every string tuned sharp to a different degree. Tune closer to the attack.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...I don't think it has anything to do with the tuner, it has to do with the user's OCD.

 

 

In many cases, yes. The specific granularity of the tuner on Helix is so fine that it will appear fidgety because the actual note coming in is fidgety. Like with any very accurate tuner, I'd always rather err on the side of being JUST flat, since I know most of my notes are fretted and therefore a tad sharper anyway. In fact, I tune my lowest string by fretting on fret 2 and tuning that string to F#. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as accuracy goes, the Helix tuner seems to be plenty accurate. It's mainly the display ergonomics that needs work in my opinion. I find that the upper line to be a bit distracting because of the way that the LCD scale bars flicker back and forth. The upper scale is measuring the pitch at a very fine resolution so there's going to be some wavering back and forth. It would be much easier on the eyes the the bars faded in and out so that there's a smooth transition of light rather than a hard on-or-off appearance.

 

The one thing that I really miss is the polyphonic tuning of my old Boss GT100. When playing live, it is very nice to be able to quickly check the tuning of all strings at once with one strum. It quickly identifes which string is out so the tuning time is minimized. I plan to add a Polytune or an HT-6 in front of the Helix for now. Hopefully this is a feature that L6 will add to the Helix in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I promise you, not the best way to do it. Because most of the notes you play you don't play that long. A note picked on a guitar with anything but really heavy strings will go down in pitch over time. If you hold the note and tune to one held note, you end up with a guitar that has every string tuned sharp to a different degree. Tune closer to the attack.

When I said "let it ring" I meant for a couple of seconds while I tuned real quick and then pick it again if neccessary. Not ringing for long periods of time.

 

And again...I will say that the problem with the Helix seems to be that it doesn't "capture" the note as other tuners do.  It never settles down. And after I finally get the note in tune, I can try it again on the same string and it reads slightly sharp or flat.

Also...a lot of times between songs onstage I like to "check" my tuning. With other tuners I can simply go down all the strings. My guitars are set up so that they stay pretty much in tune all the time (even the strat, but especially the Floyd equipped ones)

 So just for my own piece of mind I like to quickly check each string. The guitar is almost always in tune so that takes less than 10 seconds to visually verify with my Boss tuner. 

The Helix? The guitar appears to be slightly out of tune because of all the jumpiness.

 

For playing onstage with a band that tends to move quickly from song to song...that is not viable for me. :(

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's nothing different in this video than what I normally encounter on my Les Paul, Strat, Tele, and Gretsch Silver Falcon hollow body (with Bigsby).  Some using .09 strings and others using .10 strings from various manufacturers.  No problem tuning my Fender Precision Bass...all about the same. That's why I've never understood all the anxiety and fixation with the tuner.  I don't think it has anything to do with the tuner, it has to do with the user's OCD.

 

So because you see what this user saw everyone else must be suffering from OCD? Utter nonsense, bad science and an erroneous supposition, not to speak of insulting. This is not about OCD, it is about different results. This is not what many of us are seeing. It is like that picture of the dress that was floating around that appeared as gold on some computer monitors and blue on others with each half of the country accusing the other of being color blind until it was established that it actually was different colors on different monitors. Too early to tell from a single video but judging by this one people are seeing different behavior with the tuner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So because you see what this user saw everyone else must be suffering from OCD? Utter nonsense, bad science and an erroneous supposition, not to speak of insulting. This is not about OCD, it is about different results. This is not what many of us are seeing. It is like that picture of the dress that was floating around that appeared as gold on some computer monitors and blue on others with each half of the country accusing the other of being color blind until it was established that it actually was different colors on different monitors. Too early to tell from a single video but judging by this one people are seeing different behavior with the tuner.

 

Well I certainly didn't mean it as an insult...I meant is as humor.  But apparently it missed that train.....

 

Maybe there is a difference in units, but I personally own two Helix units and they both act the same when it comes to tuning.  What could and does change are possibly higher gain pickups that could make a difference, or simply the people themselves and their expectations of a tuner.  Admittedly the highest gain pickup I have is on my Les Paul which is a burstbuster pro II, but that's nothing in comparison to what others might be running.

 

But for some of us that don't seem to be bothered that much by the tuner, and mine does fluctuate as all do but I've adjusted to it, it just seems over-the-top all the anguish regarding this relatively minor feature of Helix.  I guess if I was really bothered by it I'd get a $10 clip-on tuner and call it a day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And again...I will say that the problem with the Helix seems to be that it doesn't "capture" the note as other tuners do.  It never settles down. And after I finally get the note in tune, I can try it again on the same string and it reads slightly sharp or flat...

 

 

Again, that upper line is super-fine in granularity. A guitar that registers a string in tune over and over with that much precision in my experience doesn't exist. If it's just under or at or jumps between one or two segments below and one above, that is, to all intents and purposes, when you're talking about a .009 or .010 set of strings on a standard guitar... in tune...

 

Honestly, I think what you're seeing in many cases is a tuner that is too "good" for some to consider usable for stage use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter, you are dead wrong. 

I've said before...my Korg rackmount tuner has the exact same specs as the Helix tuner. It doesn't jump around. 
The Helix was "jumpy" on the tuner from the day I bought it in Oct. of 2015. Long before the added bars, back when it was just the one line of bars...it was jumpy.
THAT is what people were complaining about in the beginning and prompted Line 6 to add the other line of bars thinking that would solve the problem.
Instead, it gave me two lines of bars that are jumpy. :(

There has never been in my lifetime a tuner that was "too good" to be used onstage. lol

I've had guitar techs that worked for me that used nothing but the old Petersohn strobe tuners in the late 1970's and early 1980's. 
I highly doubt that the tuner in a modeling pedal that cost me $1,500 has a tuner that is just so accurate and detailed that it can't be used. 

Come on man!  A tuner is a no-brainer. It either works or it don't. 
Yours does apparently. Mine is erratic. So are others. Never seen anything like this in a tuner before. Never heard of any tuner from the cheapest to the most expensive giving people problems. 

Hopefully Line 6 has a couple of Helices that do the same thing that many of us see with the tuner and can figure it out and get it to stop being jumpy and just tune like every guitar tuner ever on the market.

If not? I'll just keep using external tuners so I can play professionally. 
Congrats to you and I am jealous that yours works so well. Figures the mine came with a gremlin living in the tuner. lol

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter, you are dead wrong. 

 

I've said before...my Korg rackmount tuner has the exact same specs as the Helix tuner. It doesn't jump around. 

The Helix was "jumpy" on the tuner from the day I bought it in Oct. of 2015. Long before the added bars, back when it was just the one line of bars...it was jumpy.

THAT is what people were complaining about in the beginning and prompted Line 6 to add the other line of bars thinking that would solve the problem.

Instead, it gave me two lines of bars that are jumpy. :(

 

There has never been in my lifetime a tuner that was "too good" to be used onstage. lol

 

I've had guitar techs that worked for me that used nothing but the old Petersohn strobe tuners in the late 1970's and early 1980's. 

I highly doubt that the tuner in a modeling pedal that cost me $1,500 has a tuner that is just so accurate and detailed that it can't be used. 

 

Come on man!  A tuner is a no-brainer. It either works or it don't. 

Yours does apparently. Mine is erratic. So are others. Never seen anything like this in a tuner before. Never heard of any tuner from the cheapest to the most expensive giving people problems. 

 

Hopefully Line 6 has a couple of Helices that do the same thing that many of us see with the tuner and can figure it out and get it to stop being jumpy and just tune like every guitar tuner ever on the market.

 

If not? I'll just keep using external tuners so I can play professionally. 

Congrats to you and I am jealous that yours works so well. Figures the mine came with a gremlin living in the tuner. lol

 

Well said and that gremlin seems to have an extended family because one of them is living in my tuner as well.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...