grdGo33

I went into this with an open mind, knowing the PGO isn't the best at everything, and having tried the pitch shifter and found it to be a bit lacking, not compared to other units, but just as in not sounding as real as a note without pitch shift (obviously). But it doesn't seem to be worse than the Zoom, quite the contrary, to my ears, seems to sound a lot closer to the Eventide, which I think is a good thing, since it's a standalone 499 harmonizer... (PGO's effects are identical to Helix products) Maybe you're just used to the tone of the Zoom effect and you have set that as your internal reference, and so anything which doesn't sound like it doesn't sound right to you? Or any clip of something sounding 'right' vs something sounding 'wrong'? As per the below video, the Zoom does not sound better to me. Different sure, and if that's your thing ok, but I wouldn't say that PGO's Pitch Shifting is worse.

So I'm still confused about what is happening with the PGO FX Loops... So I have a looper pedal. Depending on where the FX Loop sits in the chain, I get weird noise artifacts. And that is with the looper 'off'; not looping at all: 1) IN -> VOL -> WAH -> DIST -> AMP -> CAB -> DELAY -> REVERB -> FX LOOP -> OUT = noticeable clipping/distortion in the sound 2) IN -> VOL -> WAH -> FX LOOP -> DIST -> AMP -> CAB -> DELAY -> REVERB -> OUT = very high noise, as if the noise gate had been shut down. 3) IN -> VOL -> WAH -> DIST -> FX LOOP -> AMP -> CAB -> DELAY -> REVERB -> OUT = absolutely ZERO noise, distortion or clipping, works perfectly. Can anyone figure why that would be? I thought that because of #1, there was an issue between PGO and the looper pedal, but since with #3 it works perfectly, it doesn't appear to be an issue between PGO and the pedal. I also don't understand #2, the pedal has virtually no noise, it is really virtually silent: I can have the PGO and amp volume maxed, and I hear zero no noise. But if I move the FX Loop before the distortion pedal, it gets VERY noisy. The amount of noise actually depends on which distortion pedals are used, the two L6 distortion being the worse culprits. But since the Looper pedal makes virtually no noise, I don't understand why the PGO gets super noisy when the FX loop is before the distortion and 100% noiseless when it is after it... I mean, if the noise was 0.1dB and the distortion bumped it to 0.4dB that would be normal or expected. But as is, it's really like the noise of the pedal is 0.001dB, but when you turn on the distortion pedal, it becomes 1dB, which is a totally abnormal and unexpected amount of 'amplified' noise, since there's no noise to begin with...

Same way as 1 IR, but you just select multiple files by holding shift. From what I can recall, you can't select multiple folders, but what you can do as a workaround, do a file search for wave files (*.wav), so you'll see a list of all the IR files, and copy them all to a temporary folder. Then you can select them all in one go from the temporary folder. You might have to fiddle file names, there's some software which can automatically append folder names and other rules, ex; https://www.bulkrenameutility.co.uk/ But yeah with that, you can do it fairly efficiently. But again, it's a workaround for the poor PGO software, as importing multiple folders at once could have been supported...

Not that it applies here, but "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". For programming, you could say that you should never attribute the intent of simplicity to what can be attributed to the simplest/cheapest way to do something. There's also the KISS acronym, and figuring what is the minimum required features and doing the least possible to achieve them... Of course, they could have had dynamic blocks, and some status bars on top of each effect to indicate the % of resources they'll consume, and honestly that would have confused nobody. But that would have meant more work for them, it would have been more complicated, so I'm pretty damn sure that's why they opted for the simplest solution to implement. KISS. Not quite sure it's as simple as attributing a percentage for each block... General computing, it's at least CPU & RAM. In the Go, they need to crunch the data within a certain timeframe, so as to the user not noticing any latency. So yeah if it's only CPU, % could work, but maybe memory is also an issue, and loading multiple blocks could max memory... Who knows... But IMHO, other than any technical/programming reason, it could have well been decided in a meeting room with the L6 non-technical teams (sales, marketing, etc) teams. The more the Go can do, the more it will cannibalize the sales of the more expensive L6 products. Hell, take car manufacturers. They'll sell a $300 option so that your side mirrors can be moved electrically, but the motors are in all the cars, the cars without the option are just missing the electrical wires required for the mirror to work. Why? Because it's cheaper to manufacture all cars with those super cheap motors, than manufacturing ars with/without motors... So don't be surprised if L6 could have done a bunch of stuff, but decided not to do it, not because it wouldn't have made the product better, but because making it better would have been worse for their endgame financial profits.

What are you trying to do? The 32 vs 80 ohms won't make a world of a difference. The higher the impedance, the more juice you'll require to get the same volume. But, the higher ohms version is superior in terms of sound quality; so ex beyer says: 32 ohms for portable, 250 for home on stereo system, 600 ohms with dedicated headphone amplifier. Just tried, 50% volume on 32 ohm headphones is about as loud as 80% on a 600 ohms headphone, which ends up about normal listening level. Maxed the 600 ohms aren't really much louder, so not very loud at all. The 32 ohms are uncomfortably loud maxed. So with 80 ohms you should have plenty of volume/power, even if you're trying to damage your hearing. Generally, open headphones have a better sound than closed headphones. But closed headphones obviously block outside noises while open don't. Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 80 Ohm https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-a-i/dt770-pro-250ω/ Beyerdynamic DT 990 Edition 32 Ohm https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-a-i/dt990-pro-250ω/ Beyerdynamic DT 880 Edition 32 Ohm https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-a-i/dt880-250ω/ AKG K702 https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/akg/k702/ and from a lower price range AKG K240 So if you need closed or you think closed would be better, of that list the DT770 is the obvious choice, but you could also add as mentioned the audiotechnica ATHM50x something, or the AKG K550 or K551. Think they're all good choices. https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/akg/akg-k550/ For open, the 990 is bright and bass heavy, so if that's what you're looking for, good choice. If you're looking for a more balanced sound, then the 880 are a much better choice, as is the AKG Q701 or 702. Sennheiser 599 is also decent, light & comfortable, if you can find a good deal (~100usd), good buy. HD600 is a classic, but more expensive. But true, the massdrop 6xx for $220, great buy. It's similar to the classic HD600 might arguably be the most iconic headphone ever. But it is 300 ohm ... But as I said it depends what you'll use them for, probably for general stuff as well, so getting open would give you the better sound for the money. But they won't block out sound, and everyone will hear very loudly what you're listening to or playing. So open are 'better', but if you need closed, then you need closed... I'd say skip the 990, so that leaves the 880 or the Q701/K702, both great and can't really go wrong with either; both have their fanbase and are classic/great headphones. and 6xx. The 6xx is basically the HD650 which was the 'successor' (never really replaced, kinda more like a side-step / brother) to the iconic HD600, and you'll find hordes of fans which will tell you that they're the best headphones ever. FWIW, I once heard the 650 and I wasn't overly impressed, but these 3 (6xx, 702, 880) are imho pretty much all classics and great buys. If you'll use them for other stuff, computer, music, etc., you might also consider getting an amp, like schiit has a 99$ amp which is great. There's plenty of even cheaper amp options also. Then you'd also have a great listening rig.

Nope.

wrong forum, try here! https://line6.com/support/forum/20-pod-20-pod-xt-pocket-pod-floorpods/

Just to conclude! If you're starting out with IRs, thanks again @voxman55 and @olerabbit grab these: 1) ML Sould Lab best IR, It's just one IR, but it's pretty good, very balanced! Just sounds 'right'. https://www.dropbox.com/s/m4fwk8jx6m08hse/ML Sound Lab's BEST IR IN THE WORLD.zip?dl=0 2) L6 Allure pack, 6 IRs, but they're pretty good. https://de.line6.com/allure/ 3) Seacow's Christmas pack. It contains a 45 IRs, they're pretty good sounding all quite varied. https://seacowcabs.wordpress.com/2019/12/24/seacow-cabs-christmas-ir-pack/ Just with these 3 downloads, you'll end up with around 50 IRs, and while it takes some time to import them all, once you have them it's much easier to jump from on IR to the other, and it's much simpler/faster than going through the L6 PGO cab/mic/distance thing. I mean, when you click on a Mesa Boogie cab, you'll instantly get the Mesa sound, same for Marshall, and for some reason seem to make the sound 'pop' a little more than the default cabs seem to do... They just instantly give you "the sound". But still they don't sound drastically different to the L6 cabs, comparing a Fender one with the same mic they sounded basically identical, but, just being able to click on an IR is much better than having to select the cab, then change the mic, and then change the distance. Plus not having to remember exactly what every cab/mic/distance setting sounds like and having to endlessly experiment with settings... A much easier/faster process, and absolutely ZERO messing around with mics/distance, priceless! Just having these 50 cab options would take you weeks of trial/error configuring the default cabs, and most likely you'd just never get to experience these sounds... Surprisingly, I was expecting the Tone Junky IRs to sound great, but I found the sound from their free pack to be quite bland and disappointing... Even if some said TJ's IRs were fantastic, I couldn't hear it... Might be amp matching... So far I just mainly used the Dirty Placater Amp with heavy riffs; haven't gotten around to clean and lead. So maybe they'll do better there... But yeah to me the above 3 IR packs all sounded quite a bit better. Also Seacow has a lot of cabs and IRs... But my issue is that in packs, when you're getting 500 IRs at once, when you get 50 IRs for 1 cab; 10 different mics & 4 different placements for each, that's just too many, and kinda pointless unless you're so picky about your IRs and you're really anal about your mic & placement and want that exact sound...! It becomes obfuscation through quantity... For me, too many options, scrolling, and 50 IRs for 1 cab is just too much; much prefer the above packs simplicity! :D Oh, and btw, you can import multiple IRs at once... Don't do like me and import them 1 by 1... lol

Why would setting it last be any worse than setting in first? If the out/in have noise or quality issues, the noise will be the same if it's first or if it's last. Even logically, well depending on whether your block chain ends up increasing or decreasing the overall signal, putting it last might have less noise. Since if your noisy signal is put at the start of your chain and your chain increases the overall volume, the noise will equally be increased, whereas if it was last, in the contrary the noise/distortion from the FX loop would be lower relative to the overall loud sound.

Bit too late for that! :) (L6 cab ranting spoilered) But anyway, IR largely solves the cab issue for me. Now it's much more easier to just go from one IR to the next, without having to tweak mic & distance every single time! So far I'm really liking the ML Sound Lab's BEST IR IN THE WORLD, not sure what it is exactly though, Boogie maybe? "ML mix IR", maybe mix of IRs/cabs/mics also... But I guess that's the beauty of it, it's one click away instead instead of a huge headache away! :D Kalthallen also seem to sound pretty good, but haven't tested them all. But yeah, so far, I'm really happy with the IRs I've tried so far! :D Oh, and trying to find out what the ML best IR is, saw this below, so while I don't doubt the L6 cabs can all be made to sound phenomenal with time & dedication, very likely that there's many IR that can be achieved IRL which are just not possible with the L6 cab parameters. From dual cabs, multiple mics, angling the mics, positioning them differently vs driver, etc., The more I think about it, the more using IR make sense as the better solution!

@voxman55 Thx for the ML Soundlap 'best' IR I'll try it out a bit later! I didn't dl so far the packs; some ask for payment even if it's for 0$, etc, but this one seems to have quite a few which can be downloaded without hassle! https://www.soundwoofer.se/blog/about/top-20-list/. Tone junkies also looks good, and the later links also contain non-hassle downloads, Seacow, KalthallenCabsIR, etc, big thanks! :D Except I wouldn't be buying a car, I would be downloading free cars! So you could tell me; well here's a Ferrari SF90, here's a McLaren 720s, Porsches GT3RS, here's an F1, here's a Tesla, Ford truck, a jeep, a RollsRoyce, BMW Sedan, Mercedes SUV, etc.! And I could drive around with all of them ;) But yeah I understand the basics of cabs, mics & distance. I'm not just super interested in getting a PHD in Pod Go Cabs science at the moment... Just wanna play music! And the way the L6 PGO works, I find that it's more of a deterrent to me; I'm wasting more time on this cab/mic/distance sh!t than just enjoying playing guitar! If IRs can simplify my life and give me just a dozen awesome cab tones (that people have spent years learning and developing) without requiring me to mess with L6 cab-sh!t for days/weeks/months, huge win for IRs for now! :D ranting So yeah sure I can get decent usable tones, it's just never as I exactly want it, but you could argue that I'm being too picky... @olerabbit thx for the Allure pack I tried it a bit earlier and they really sound great! :\ Hmmm... Lost me on harmonizing! ;) But yeah I see them more as templates for the moment; instead of having to mess with the L6 cab/mic/dist, you just pick an IR based on a cab, don't worry about the details and use that. And if say I know that 3 IRs are based on the same cab and are good representatives of the tone of the cabs, already that's a huge improvement vs the L6 too confusing because of too many variables configure your own recording studio setup... I'm sure you can get great results with the L6 stock cabs, it's likely just more hassle than IRs, and if I can just load a few IRs and be satisfied, I'll be happy & content! But yeah to me the Allure pack IRs sounded great, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'll definitely also try Vox's best ML and https://www.soundwoofer.se/blog/about/top-20-list/ Thanks! :D

Any improvement/news/update after speaking to L6 or trying different stuff?

Jesus... 1st link... " 700+ Mesa OS IRs (.wav)"! o.0 Yeah the main issue for me is always being overwhelmed with options. In PGO: There's 16 mics. There's 30 cabs. There's at least 10 mic usable positions. (typical mic placement is 1 to 5 inch?). So that's what, like 5000 possibilities? Sure, not all are useful, but I'm having great trouble wrapping my head around the sound of the cab, the sound of the mics and the exact effect of the combinations of those vs distance. 700+ Mesa OS IRs is a bit similar, I can't see myself scrolling through 700+ IRs, that would take me years! lol Hence, if there's already 'renown' classic great sounding IRs, well, since you're not dealing with cabs/mic/distance, and are just getting IR sound, that's way simpler. Maybe at least use them as reference... Ex: If I were trying to make Bourbon, and I have a bunch of ingredients; I'd be asking, what are the best Bourbons I should taste to know what great Bourbon is supposed to taste like? Having then a crate with 700+ different bourbon bottles would just get me drunk lol For the L6 cabs, yeah, read a bit on mics and cabs and and setup some patches, but not sure how much better/worse good IRs would sound in comparison. Too many options I didn't try, if just plugging an IR would give me better sound with less hassle...! And for using the L6 cabs, it's super annoying that the mic is stuck with the cab. If I could set the mic & distance and just switch cab that would be one thing, but having to reconfigure the mic & distance each time you switch cab is super annoying... (don't think you can...) Also, as per the above, never know if you're missing out on a great cab/mic/distance combination, but often it seems it ends up with "well I guess it sounds ok now, but if only it could be a little bit more like this and a bit less like that", and given just the cab/mic/distance combination possibilities, it's like rocket science, would probably take dozens of scientific papers to be able to explain the relation between them all and what combinations results in the 'best' combinations for different purposes...

Thanks!!! :D Have you made some more? I'm also trying to find some good IRs, having dual cabs ones would be great since I also heard good things about them. I'm entirely new to IRs so really am in the learning phase. One thing, I think setting up the high and low cut in the IR isn't a good idea, since you can just set them in the IR settings, but if they're cut off from the IR itself, then it's gone forever and you cannot get those frequencies back... I think some of the IRs are more suited for some amps/styles, so if not used 'correctly', it might not sound good/great even if it is in fact a fantastic IR? For this one, I just quickly tested with a Placater dirty (default settings), and maybe because I'm more accustomed to Ribbon mics so far, so it seemed to sound fairly balanced but seemed to somehow have a smoothing effect to the amp's distortion? So yeah I guess for finding an IR, what you're trying to achieve (style of music, amp, etc.) might be more critical than the IR 'quality' itself? I'd guess this particular IR would be better suited for a classic rock / marshall sound rather than a more modern/heavier/aggressive/saturated type of sound? Or are IRs generally supposed to be great at everything or are they more generally targeted to a particular style?

Just curious if someone found some good free impulse responses? Not that I'd be absolutely opposed to paying for some, but I'd rather start to get familiar with them and what they bring to the table, instead of just spending money where I'm not sure it'll be so fruitful. Thanks!

I tried on mine and I do also get some high end reduction it seems like. Not drastic, but noticeable. Still, could be placebo, but I'm fairly confident I could differentiate it in a DBT... One thing though is that it could be a volume level, are the guitar & Go using the same volume? If not, if your guitar is louder than the go maybe you're getting more tube saturation/distortion and that's what you interpret as sparkle... Other than that, my theories would be: 1) Going through the Go is bound to affect the signal in some way. Some pedals have "true bypass", but in case of Go, being digital, even when you're turning everything off in software, you're still going through the analog and digital conversion, and all of the circuits of the Go. If the Go was perfect, you couldn't hear any of it, but it appears that it isn't optimal and it does, as you describe, suck the tone... :\ 2) Could be impedance related; when the guitar is connected directly to the amp, it creates a circuit; and in simple terms, the guitar affects the amp and the amp affects the guitar. (all offer different resistances and work 'as a whole'). When you're plugging in the Go, well now you've completely change the circuit; Guitar -> Go -> amp -> Go -> Guitar, so now everything has changed... Maybe that also has an effect on your tone... (theory on my part, I know impedance affects electronics, but not quite certain about PUs & amps. Maybe no effect, maybe someone knows lol) 3) You're also using an extra cable which will also have an effect, the longer cable the more effect... So in the end, I'm guessing it's the sum of all of the above. But I'm surprised that other devices like HD500 & others wouldn't have such impact... Is the Go really worse than others? I'd be curious now to know if the other Helix products would have the same 'tone sucking quality' that the Go seems to have...

Exactly, but that's what not it does! It's connected to 1) Main out left/Mono to guitar amp and 2) headphone out to stereo amp speakers. But when the FX Loop is on, it gives me absolutely no processed signal, like the FX return goes straight to the PGO out... Exactly like this: And yeah my Looper (in) is connected to Pod Go FX send, and my looper (out) is connecter to the Go's FX return, so I expected it to go through all the chain like you said, but it's really not what it does... Ok I just figured it out...! Global settings, in/out That was why as I said in this and the other thread I linked earlier, that the looper kept playing even if the block was off... So it's actually an interesting option if you have a mono looper and are outputting sound from Go to Monitors/PA/whatever! But yeah not sure why that option was set the way it was... When I changed the option, the Go started behaving as you would expect... The more you know LOL (optimally, there could have been some indicator that the option is on/off, since it really screws up the FX loop behavior, but I guess that when you know the option exist...) Thanks!

Using my mad Photoshopping skillz, this is how the FX loop appears to be working in actuality when it is turned on in the 3rd effects block location:

Yeah I understand how my looper pedal works, you don't have to try to explain it to me! lol I used the looper just as an example. My question has nothing to do with the looper pedal itself. It could be a distortion pedal, chorus, compressor, phaser, EQ, reverb, etc., I'm trying to figure out why the Pod Go FX Loop block doesn't seem to work as you would normally assume it to! Please reread or read the original post, even just the 1st TLDR line of the message for what I'm asking! Thanks! :p Visually:

Thanks yeah I understand how the looper works, I'm trying to figure out how the Pod Go's FX loop works!

TLDR: How does the FX Loop work relative to the other blocks? I have a looper connect to the PGO: PGO FX out -> Looper -> FX in. 1) If the FX Loop is the last element of my effect block chain, it works normally, if I put on some reverb, distortion, etc., I can record with the looper, I can hear all effects, etc., works. 2) BUT, if I move the FX Loop to the 1st block, just before the say the distortion, then it doesn't work. I'm getting totally raw guitar signal, it sounds like the FX Loop bypasses all the blocks including amp, cab, etc., so I'm not getting anything from the go with this configuration. 3) If I put it at the end just before the cab, I'm getting a loud bright harsh sound. And if I turn off the the FX loop and turn off the cab, I'm getting the exact same sound. So it's like the FX loop bypasses the cab when it's on.... So basically, from what I can gather, is that unlike all of the above pictures show, the FX loop block doesn't work like a regular block. The signal doesn't go through the block... The signal enters the block, and then seems directly routed to the output, bypassing everything that comes after it. And what is strange, is that if I record something with the looper and I turn the FX Loop off in PGO, I can still hear the looper playing the music through the monitors. So the FX Loop isn't even really turned off, it's just that the PGO is not outputting any signal from the FX Loop out, but is still processing signal from the FX Loop in. Does this make any sense? More thoughts ...

Ok I'm getting a lot of incoherence... Turned everything off, then I went back to the Akai E2 Head Rush, and I'm not getting any clipping anymore, even though as I did mention, earlier I was getting a lot of noise/clipping it with... So I really don't get it, smells like the Go maybe detects impedance at startup and sets itself up for whatever's plugged in, and if you plug in something afterwards it might not work well? That's my guess... Something cool though I noticed, which if it isn't a bug is a cool feature: If you switch patch while the looper is looping, the Go is smart enough to keep the effects loop as the last bit of the chain (the same spot it was when you started looping), and then even if it shows the effects loop say before the amp, it still works as if it was last... So basically, you're getting the 'correct' looper sound instead of the Go moving the effects loop before the amp and distorting it... BUT, you cannot disable it via the Pod Go footswitches, if you try to do so, it will cut out the Guitar in sound, and not the looper... And if the effect loop was off by default, it will show as off but actually be on, and if pressed, switch will light up, but it will mute your guitar and the FX loop will still be on and your looper will keep looping... (Trail settings for FX loop? Maybe!) So much confusion... [edit] ok just figured out something. The footswitch to disable the FX loop doesn't disable the 'entire' FX loop, just the FX loop OUT. The IN is always active no matter if FX Loop is on/off.

OK it seems to be a level issue... When I reduce the effect out volume by a lot (ex -6dB), which is barely audible, the clipping goes away. Test1: Guitar -> Looper -> Go Effect in (last effect in chain), it works fine, there is no clipping, but the volume is about the same as the above -6dB for effects loop out, which is barely audible... Test2: Guitar -> Go -> effects loop out -> looper -> Guitar Amp guitar In. Works fine, no clipping So basically seems to be an issue with the Pod Go effect in. It seems to be able to output a 'loud' signal, but when it goes back in through its own effects loop, it will clip. But, it's with a louder signal than you'd get with just a regular guitar, even with active PUs... Anybody else getting the same? I was thinking that I could also likely reproduce the issue by just using a patch cable (cable from/to effect loop in/out), but I don't get the issue with a patch cable. So it seems to be a combination of guitar pedal + Go... So I'm guessing it's an impedance issue with the Pedal + PGo, but only with higher levels?

Bit confused... I'm using the effects loop for a looper, and with some patches, there is some clipping noise when going through the effects loop and looper... Ex: 1) I go to patch one, activate the effects loop, record a phrase though the looper, all is fine. 2) I switch patch, play a bit, sounds fine. 3) I activate the effects loop, the looper plays fine. 4) I play, but now I'm getting some clipping noise (not from the looper, but from the current guitar/patch sound) when the effects loop is active... At first I thought it had to do with levels, but even lowering the Go's effects loop out volume so that it's really not loud, I'm still getting the clipping... And it seems to do so only with some patches... My effects loop is the last effect of the Go's chain. I even tried with another Looper (Have an ammoon and an Akai), and the akai seemed much worse than the ammoon; the ammoon sounds fine with some patches, but clips with others. The akai seemed to clip much worse for more patches from what I can recall... Thanks! :\

Ha! Ok interesting! So looper engaged, then to switch; hit mode twice, then select the other patch, then hit mode again to be back to your pedal board, and you can hit the dub/record of the looper to be back to your looper. Hmm.. Not the most practical vs using an external looper but not so bad, thanks!