I know a bunch of us want the editor, but I'm anticipating new firmware!!!

[glideman]

Can't wait to see what the next firmware will include besides bug fixes and tweaks.

Helix can only get better and better as time goes by.  I know Line 6 employees can't

say much to us here, but I'm sure that it was planned all along for the product to be

expanded over time.

 

You've got to feel like Line 6 is probably at least a little shocked at how far demand is

ahead of supply since it's release and first shipments.

 

I know there are those that have gone another route after returning theirs, but I'm not

a fanboy and have been very impressed.  I've also expected some growing pains knowing

that firmware updates/improvements are a way of life for any product of this type.

 

It's a good time to be a guitarist!

[spikey]

 

 

 

 

It's a good time to be a guitarist!

Indeed!

[jpdennis]

You've got to feel like Line 6 is probably at least a little shocked at how far demand is

ahead of supply since it's release and first shipments.

 

I know there are those that have gone another route after returning theirs,

It's a good time to be a guitarist!

I made the plunge on 2/24 and after being told I would have it in my hands by the 3rd of March it may be another 6 weeks or so before my purchase is on the radar.  Good news for now is my pedal board still has my spare M13 along with a few analog relics and appears to be very usable going direct using an old Horizon active direct box.  I know ... patience.

 

Not sure why someone would return one.

 

With the Helix I am thinking it is good I play guitar, keys, banjo, and mandolin.  I am thinking multiple instrument in to multiple instrument out

[PeterHamm]

I know Line 6 employees can't say much to us here, but I'm sure that it was planned all along for the product to be

expanded over time...

 

They have been very open that yes, indeed, they plan for the product to be expanded over time, as it already has been with the amazing addition of the Matchless model and the Timmy pedal (and others).

 

But...

 

...I would caution this, based on playing this game for a long time. Don't buy any piece of gear... ever... for what it might do some day. Buy it for what it will do now. Today.

[duncann]

...I would caution this, based on playing this game for a long time. Don't buy any piece of gear... ever... for what it might do some day. Buy it for what it will do now. Today.

 

I don't buy this as a valid excuse for justifying the implied stagnation this idea holds. Especially for something as technologically advanced as Helix, and the fact that Helix has intentional designs in place for it's further advancement.

[PeterHamm]

I don't buy this as a valid excuse for justifying the implied stagnation this idea holds. Especially for something as technologically advanced as Helix, and the fact that Helix has intentional designs in place for it's further advancement.

 

I think you misunderstood me. I'll be more clear.

 

Buy Helix if it solves your problems or helps you make better tone, and therefore helps you make more awesome music. yes. And buy it knowing that it will have more good stuff next year than it does this year. And yes, buy it knowing that it's likely they might even add cool stuff 5 years later (like they did with HD 500).

 

Don't buy a Helix if you MUST have a model of a Whizbang2000XL in there. Because they might not model a Whizbang2000XL and nobody who knows if they are going to model a Whizbang2000XL can tell you a thing about if and when it will happen.

 

So you will set yourself up for disappointment. The earliest you'll find out, officially, that a new model is coming in update 1.0x.x is a day or two before. (And I got news for you, much (most?) of the time, the beta testers don't know until just a day or so before you do, and we aren't talkin', because we have an NDA in place which we have no desire to violate.)

 

So... if you're convinced that your new "GoodTone Mark II" is going to be awesome for you once they add a "BleedingEars XT" model to it in June... you might be disappointed.

 

If you buy something like Helix (or Axe for that matter) because you know good new stuff is coming that you might enjoy... good reason. Both companies have track records for expanding their products very nicely. But if you buy something that doesn't do something that you need now in the hopes that someday it will... I wouldn't.

[silverhead]

I think there's some truth in both views. I think it's fair to assume that Helix will be enhanced and that one can factor the expectation for improvement into the buying decision. But to me it's a matter of specificity. It would be a mistake to buy on the assumption that any specific improvement will be forthcoming.

 

For instance, one could buy Helix today with the fair expectation that an editor is pending. But to buy it today expecting a specific amp model, or any other currently unannounced improvement, will come in the future will only set yourself up for disappointment.

 

EDIT: Looks like PeterHamm and I were writing and posting simultaneously, with similar views.

[ozbadman]

Except I expected a lot more development on the HD500, and apart from the model packs, and the global EQ, not too much has happened over 4+ years. For me it was OK, since the HD500 did most things I wanted, it still falls a long way short of a lot of the features on the X3. But, it has better quality effects and amps for the ones it does have. I have no idea if they are still doing any HD500 development, and perhaps the same thing will happen with Helix: just some initial bugfixes and then the next gee-whiz mixer or something else. Time will tell.

[silverhead]

Except I expected a lot more development on the HD500, and apart from the model packs, and the global EQ, not too much has happened over 3+ years. For me it was OK, since the HD500 did most things I wanted, it still falls a long way short of a lot of the features on the X3. But, it has better quality effects and amps for the ones it does have. I have no idea if they are still doing any HD500 development, and perhaps the same thing will happen with Helix: just some initial bugfixes and then next gee-whiz mixer or something. Time will tell.

And there's the trap about expectations. Even having general expectations can leave you disappointed depending on the 'amount' or duration of expected improvements. And then of course specific expectations like matching X3 features are always troublesome.

 

Edit: Anyone buying Helix today might look at AMPLIFi/Firehawk with their Bluetooth capability and iOS/Android apps and persuade themselves that, since Line 6 obviously has those features on some recent products, they will surely be added to Helix at some point. If you buy Helix with that expectation you are almost certainly going to be disappointed.

[phil_m]

 

:D

[duncann]

I think you misunderstood me. I'll be more clear.

 

Buy Helix if it solves your problems or helps you make better tone, and therefore helps you make more awesome music. yes. And buy it knowing that it will have more good stuff next year than it does this year. And yes, buy it knowing that it's likely they might even add cool stuff 5 years later (like they did with HD 500).

 

Don't buy a Helix if you MUST have a model of a Whizbang2000XL in there. Because they might not model a Whizbang2000XL and nobody who knows if they are going to model a Whizbang2000XL can tell you a thing about if and when it will happen.

 

So you will set yourself up for disappointment. The earliest you'll find out, officially, that a new model is coming in update 1.0x.x is a day or two before. (And I got news for you, much (most?) of the time, the beta testers don't know until just a day or so before you do, and we aren't talkin', because we have an NDA in place which we have no desire to violate.)

 

So... if you're convinced that your new "GoodTone Mark II" is going to be awesome for you once they add a "BleedingEars XT" model to it in June... you might be disappointed.

 

If you buy something like Helix (or Axe for that matter) because you know good new stuff is coming that you might enjoy... good reason. Both companies have track records for expanding their products very nicely. But if you buy something that doesn't do something that you need now in the hopes that someday it will... I wouldn't.

 

I think you make a good distinction here. It's a fine line between expecting specific further developments and more general ones, as has been mentioned in previous posts. You can certainly set yourself up for disappointment even with general expectations. But as long as any expectations are realistic, you're probably fine and won't look at Line 6 in a bad way. Sometimes I look through the ideascale entries for Helix and there's a lot that are just ridiculous. It's mostly a matter of determining what things are realistic. But my original point was to expect a device like Helix, given today's technology, not to have any further development at all is also unrealistic.

[silverhead]

......But my original point was to expect a device like Helix, given today's technology, not to have any further development at all is also unrealistic.

True.

[PeterHamm]

HD 500 does not feel like it was designed with radical development in mind. It just wasn't. Helix is in a different class and comparing the two doesn't make much sense.

A 500-dollar product that is sold for the mass market and a 1500-dollar unit that is sold for the professional market should have wildly different future development expectations.

[ozbadman]

But my original point was to expect a device like Helix, given today's technology, not to have any further development at all is also unrealistic.

 

Except that is largely what happened on the HD500. It was the flagship modelling product, until Helix came along. And nothing happened for a long time. After the initial release, L6 got busy releasing the l2m group, stagescape, firehawk, amplifi, etc. All interesting products in their own right, but the HD500 (except for HD500X) release essentially stopped for about 3 years, then the model packs and global EQ came out. Many things in ideascale have not been addressed, and probably never will be. So, buy the Helix for what it does now, because the next release, will be an Acoustic Variax. :) (I know nothing of the sort, I am just making a point. Although a new acoustic variax would be cool).

[silverhead]

Except that is largely what happened on the HD500...

I have to disagree. The Downloads page here shows that the HD500/X product received 12 firmware updates over a period of approximately 5 years. Was that really below your expectations?

[DarrellM5]

While I do expect that Line 6 will stay on the ball for quite awhile with updates and new features for Helix, I totally agree that one should buy it for the current feature set.  I feel that I got my money's worth with Helix right out of the box.  Any updates or new additions on Line 6's part is icing on the cake and greatly appreciated.

 

So I'm really excited for the next FW update as well.  I'm really hoping that there's a new killer amp in there.  

[PeterHamm]

HD 500 exceeded my expectations for new models and firmware updates. Compare to the products that were out at the same time at the same price point from Boss and Digitech, for example.

It would surprise if Helix development experienced a slowdown if the next "killer product" from Line 6 goes into development... because... they have repeatedly stated that it's selling beyond their wildest dreams, and it exists in a product space (competing with devices from Fractal and also, to a certain extent, Kemper) where that is the default mode.

Again, comparing a 1500-dollar pro product to a 500-dollar consumer product is probably unfair.

[Paolo_Maina]

IMHO There are some features to fix/improve in Helix yet.

It seems to me they've release the Helix a little too early but I think they received pressure from high levels, from marketing managers, because of the market (maybe what other competitors were developing at that moment, Fractal AX8, FX8, for example).

I think the power of Helix is very underutilized yet, the evidence is the organ patch made by Glenn Delaune.

To infringe the hegemony of Kemper (in italy it is more popular than Fractal because is european, you can buy it in the shops Fractal only through web from USA) it needs a great product without flaws.

Before Helix the main competitor was Roland/Boss, now the game is changed, the level of price and technology is higher and the expetations of costumers are higher accordingly, now the game game is tough, and AxeFx and KPA are the leaders and the new Bias Head, Atomic amp are also new players.

 

Here where i live KPA is like the holy grail you cannot even compare it to anything without to be accused of sacrilege.

 

So it's better they don't stop to upgrade Helix for the moment.

[phil_m]

It seems to me they've release the Helix a little too early but I think they received pressure from high levels, from marketing managers, because of the market (maybe what other competitors were developing at that moment, Fractal AX8, FX8, for example).

 

Not really how it works...

 

When DI says Line 6 was developing the Helix for 5 or 6 years, it's the truth. The 1.0 feature set had been set for quite a long time when the Helix was released. I think people here interpret every bug or problem as somehow Helix being "not ready", but in reality, beta testing can only reveal so much. When you have a product that goes into the wild into the hands of thousands of people, and a bunch of people using it in all sorts of configurations, there's simply going to be things that show up. The fact is that none of the other processors on the market offer anything near the routing complexity and configurations that Helix does. With every layer of complexity more potential for problems arises.

[duncann]

I think Peter hit it perfectly with his posts.

 

Helix is a new product class for Line 6 to have. With that surely must come a different future than the HD series.

 

The fact that Line 6 is having a little trouble supplying people with Heli(x)©es can only mean good things for the future of Helix. They've got a winner, they know it, why would they slow down with it in the immediate or somewhat longer term?

 

Besides that, at least one Line 6 person has said good things are coming, but because of the editor snobs :) (count me as one), things are held up a little now.

[HonestOpinion]

I would agree with people who assert that you should buy the Helix for what it does now.  There is never a guarantee of how much future development and enhancements Line6 will devote to any given product once it is released.  However, I think it is a reasonable expectation that L6 endow a device at this price point with capabilities that are in line with and rival other similar products in the market place. Easier said than done in the case of the Helix as it costs significantly less than its closest competition from Axe-FX and Kemper. I still think at $1500 many people would hope to see many more bug fixes, enhancements, effects and more amps added given the wealth of choices from other MFX units both at the bottom and the top of the price range. My perception could be totally erroneous but sometimes it almost appears to me that L6's development efforts on any specific unit get diluted by the sheer number of new products and ingenious new stuff that seems to constantly be appearing in their product pipeline. At some point you have to seriously scale up your staff and developers before you get spread too thin, or, you have to release fewer new products. As a customer it is very important to me that L6 remain loyal to those who have invested in last year's product, particularly the more expensive ones.

 

I watched L6 essentially abandon development on the StageScape M20d very early in its lifecycle despite the fact that it initially sold at $2000. Luckily the StageScape M20d was a great product right out of the gate but lagging sales resulted in lagging development despite the investment of faith and cash by their customers. I hope the incredible demand for the Helix and the relatively hefty price results in continued support and enhancement. I can't help but look at each new product that L6 releases as both a tribute to an incredibly vibrant , creative, and forward thinking company, but also as somewhat of a threat to their commitment to the Helix and their ability to allocate adequate resources to it. All of the early adopters of the Helix have placed their trust in Line6 to dedicate the required level of development resources to the Helix for a reasonable amount of time before moving on to the next latest and greatest.  I don't believe reasonable customer expectations should be sacrificed to work on the next project, and so far this does not seem to be the case. As always I hope that Line6 takes the long view and sees trust and a positive relationship with their customers as a less tangible but critical element to future profits.

[Nimbas]

I have to disagree. The Downloads page here shows that the HD500/X product received 12 firmware updates over a period of approximately 5 years. Was that really below your expectations?

Compare that with how many firmware updates the Axe-Fx got over 5 years and you'll have your answer.  (Hint - yes).

 

That was then and this is now, but you must realize that is what you are being compared to.  The community expects this high priced piece of gear to get regular updates - just like they would with Fractal.  Sometimes bug fixes, some model additions, some cab additions, some effect additions and some model/effect improvements.

 

You wanted to regain market share from Fractal right?  You can't just release this thing and quit or even release it and take a break really.  You've got to push forward and push forward hard.  Push right up until this thing can't handle it any more then release the next one that can.

 

We live in an age of "that's awesome, but can you make it do this?".  Line 6 had better plan firmly on expanding the Helix at a quick rate or you'll lose your customer base to those that are.  

 

In short no I don't think the 12 updates over 5 years model is acceptable.  I expect updates - meaningful ones - every month.  At the latest - bi monthly.

[silverhead]

Helix is still priced well below Axe. Fair comparisons should be made on price and feature set, and on Line 6 history in terms of updates and enhancements. If you choose to base your expectations on a higher priced competitor's product and end up disappointed I guess that's up to you.

 

But what will you do with your disappointment? Get rid of the lower priced but arguably better value Helix product that sounds virtually as good or (in the opinion of some who have owned both) better than Axe? Because it only gets updates a few times a year rather than monthly? If that makes sense to you then go for it.

[klangmaler]

Many firmware updates are no quality "per se", I guess.

 

For the moment, I definitely see the necessity to (double) check things before the release

(of a well done editor, for example ;) ).

 

I like the idea, that a new update does not involve even more trouble (this already begins with drivers, updaters and so on)...

 

[PeterHamm]

Compare that with how many firmware updates the Axe-Fx got over 5 years and you'll have your answer.  (Hint - yes).

 

No offense, but you are, again, comparing apples to oranges.

 

An Axe FX plus foot controller costs how many TIMES more than an HD 500? The first is made for a pro market, and the latter is made for the consumer mass-market.

 

You also talk about Line6 losing market share to Fractal? I doubt it. Even now. They are two completely different market segments. 

 

And the only product in Helix's market space is the AX8, which wasn't even a known entity when Helix was in development (the converse might be true as well).

In short no I don't think the 12 updates over 5 years model is acceptable.  I expect updates - meaningful ones - every month.  At the latest - bi monthly.

 

God, I HOPE not... the last thing I need from a product I use in my work is that much of a moving target. I need stability, and only need updates when they are significant. In fact, to be honest, I don't need updates at all at this point. It makes the sounds I need. I'll enjoy and welcome the updates... but NEED...? Nope.

[HonestOpinion]

Helix is still priced well below Axe. Fair comparisons should be made on price and feature set, and on Line 6 history in terms of updates and enhancements. If you choose to base your expectations on a higher priced competitor's product and end up disappointed I guess that's up to you.

 

But what will you do with your disappointment? Get rid of the lower priced but arguably better value Helix product that sounds virtually as good or (in the opinion of some who have owned both) better than Axe? Because it only gets updates a few times a year rather than monthly? If that makes sense to you then go for it.

 

You are correct when you point out that comparisons need to be fair and that the Axe-FX and Kemper are far more expensive, but if you want to do fair comparisons, please also keep in mind that as far as I know Line6 has been around a lot longer and is a much larger company than for instance Fractal, with one would hope, far more marketing, distribution, and development resources at its disposal, giving it an advantage by economy of scale, number of units sold, distribution, and exposure. I have no idea how its margin on each unit compares with Axe-FX but this could be a factor as well. Although I don't know whether the purchase by Yamaha has actually provided Line6 with new resources, this partnership could at least potentially offer them yet another avenue to enhancing development cycles (although perhaps not). The fact is that for high end devices in this general price range consumers have come to expect a certain baseline of support, options, performance, periodic enhancements, and dependability. We can debate all day whether certain expectations are reasonable or not but ultimately consumers do look to the standards set by the myriad companies out there for a sort of general consensus as to what to expect when purchasing an item in this price range as well as more or less expensive devices.

[phil_m]

Well, I'm not sure how many updates Fractal has put out over the years, but they have in essence been incrementally improving the same base code since the release of the Axe FX II. Right now, excluding the foot controller, Fractal makes three products, and all three of those products share the same basic code. This is quite different than Line 6, which has a product line of dozens of current products.

 

In a sense, yes, I'm sure Line 6 is aware that it's competing against these companies, but I don't think that the driving force behind the Helix. I think they will develop the Helix as see fit, not trying to get into a tit for tat with competitors. I think they want to make products that make their customers happy, in the long run. What makes a Line 6 customer happy may not be what makes a Fractal or Kemper customer happy. This is why it's great that there are choices in the world. The same stuff doesn't make everyone happy.

[Nimbas]

No offense, but you are, again, comparing apples to oranges.

 

An Axe FX plus foot controller costs how many TIMES more than an HD 500? The first is made for a pro market, and the latter is made for the consumer mass-market.

 

You also talk about Line6 losing market share to Fractal? I doubt it. Even now. They are two completely different market segments. 

 

And the only product in Helix's market space is the AX8, which wasn't even a known entity when Helix was in development (the converse might be true as well).

 

God, I HOPE not... the last thing I need from a product I use in my work is that much of a moving target. I need stability, and only need updates when they are significant. In fact, to be honest, I don't need updates at all at this point. It makes the sounds I need. I'll enjoy and welcome the updates... but NEED...? Nope.

 

Not sure how I am again comparing apples to oranges AGAIN when that is the first time I've commented here.   WRONG.

 

We are not comparing Axefx to HD500, we are comparing HD500 update frequency vs Fractal and how it will relate to Helix.  WRONG.

 

Line 6 did lose market share to Fractal and Kemper, and the Helix is designed to recover it.  This has already been stated, look it up if you want.  WRONG.

 

Whether the AX8 was known or not when the Helix was in development is irrelevant because we all knew about neither.  From the public eye we knew about AX8 before Helix.  WRONG.

 

Your last comment was just your opinion - but again you missed the point.  If they add new models and effects it doesn't change the ones you are using so - yep WRONG again.

 

What was your point again?

 

Mine is this - the Helix is cool but way behind Fractal with number of amps, effects, and cabs.  Setting a goal to model and release so many amps and so forth per month isn't an unreasonable goal.  If I was @ Line 6, that's exactly what I'd be doing.

[phil_m]

WRONG.

 

Haha, do you work in IT?

 

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/nick-burns-your-companys-computer-guy/n11524

[spikey]

Not really how it works...

 

When DI says Line 6 was developing the Helix for 5 or 6 years, it's the truth. The 1.0 feature set had been set for quite a long time when the Helix was released. I think people here interpret every bug or problem as somehow Helix being "not ready", but in reality, beta testing can only reveal so much. When you have a product that goes into the wild into the hands of thousands of people, and a bunch of people using it in all sorts of configurations, there's simply going to be things that show up. The fact is that none of the other processors on the market offer anything near the routing complexity and configurations that Helix does. With every layer of complexity more potential for problems arises.

 

 

But- (and there is always a but) OTOH... There was a contractual date assigned to the release of Helix to the general public, whether or not certain things were shall we say, the best it could be at the time of release, or not. This date is binding, and a penalty of breach of contract among other fines and bad looks apply. Now, Im not saying that this is the wrong way for any business to work(esp. in these times) , Im just saying it is what it is. Bottom line is If that means there are things to be fixed and improved on later after release, thats just the way it will be handled, ready or not now, because the release met its by god contractual release date. And the consumer has to abide by this because there is no other option available. Im not bad mouthing Line-6 any more than the other million companies that do this, to meet their obligations, and Ive ordered a Helix myself. I can tell you my opinion is that this is not the way I would have wanted it done given the option. Which leads me to another point. A thriving and successful business stays that way by introducing new products that sell, and not by continuing to patch an old tire. Case in point- the Vetta II amp, once Line 6's flagship amp, dropped like a hot potato when the time came, and later model pod pros' and the HD's came off the drawing board and into production. The same will happen with Helix at some point, whether we are ready or not. Patching an old tire at that point is futile. And that my friends is what the business world calls progress. I call it in much simpler terms, survival.

 

 

 I have no idea if they are still doing any HD500 development, and perhaps the same thing will happen with Helix: just some initial bugfixes and then the next gee-whiz mixer or something else. Time will tell.

It already has... ;)

[jaeger28]

I agree with what Phil said- Helix does not really have competitors in terms of features. Its I/O and routing capabilities are far superior to Fractal and Kemper.

If you only use 1 In and 1 out, like I believe many people do, they are competitors.

I think Helix has a fine set of amps and FX already. Falls short a bit on the Highend Rack league FX like Eventide level Harmonizer or Lexicon level Reverb. Also it would be great to have global modifiers/modulation sources, but that might be against the philosophy of ease of use.

That and a Friedman BE100 obviously ;)

[ozbadman]

I have to disagree. The Downloads page here shows that the HD500/X product received 12 firmware updates over a period of approximately 5 years. Was that really below your expectations?

 

They were mostly bugfixes, with a few new amps, and some additional product integration. Relative to the X3, yes it was well below what I expected. They wrote the entire Helix from scratch in 5 years.

[arislaf]

Landon, couldn't say it better man... Well done. 

 

Have to add : Axe FX is not comparable with Helix, in terms of Quality... This is the second unit I am sending back... As far as I remember axe has a much more better quality control.

 

So yes, more amps and effects, more frequent updates and better quality of hardware, I see that fractal is still better than Helix.

 

Before you tell me buy a fractal, I like to control my variax through my pedal, and I like the idea of all in one box... Problem is my 2nd box needs replace.

 

Ps: that reminds me a lot the thread of the JCM800 on pod HD....

[fukuri]

Kids today ...

[ozbadman]

But- (and there is always a but) OTOH... There was a contractual date assigned to the release of Helix to the general public, whether or not certain things were shall we say, the best it could be at the time of release, or not. This date is binding, and a penalty of breach of contract among other fines and bad looks apply.

What?

 

A contract between who and whom? A contract requires at least two parties to sign to be legal. Who signed what? L6 and the General Public?

 

So no. No such contract existed, and there are no legal ramifications for late delivery of a product, unless some contract was signed between the supplier and the customer, and either fines were included, or financial loss resulted.

 

Having said that, it's often bad for business to not manage customer expectations well, but there are (usually) no legal implications.

 

Now, I'm not saying that this is the wrong way for any business to work(esp. in these times) , Im just saying it is what it is. Bottom line is If that means there are things to be fixed and improved on later after release, thats just the way it will be handled, ready or not now, because the release met its by god contractual release date.

Again, without a contract, there is no 'contractual release date'. Just a proposed release date, that they may or may not hit.

 

And the consumer has to abide by this because there is no other option available. Im not bad mouthing Line-6 any more than the other million companies that do this, to meet their obligations

They probably have no obligations, just desires.

[arislaf]

An Axe FX plus foot controller costs how many TIMES more than an HD 500? The first is made for a pro market, and the latter is made for the consumer mass-market.

 

You also talk about Line6 losing market share to Fractal? I doubt it. Even now. They are two completely different market segments. 

 

 

Peter, few years back and the Pod HD was marketed as a pro level gear FROM line 6, and that was the reason that were so many videos with artists claiming the same... And I also believe that it is a pro level device, since pros are using it.... This is an orange to apple comparison, an elite sounding unit with support, versus an medium sounding unit with minimum support. 

 

Now that helix became L6 elite sounding unit, and we paid for an elite sounding unit, it is normal to want more, since the company by it's own minimized the gap of competion. 

[PeterHamm]

Not sure how I am again comparing apples to oranges AGAIN when that is the first time I've commented here.   WRONG.

 

We are not comparing Axefx to HD500, we are comparing HD500 update frequency vs Fractal and how it will relate to Helix.  WRONG.

 

Line 6 did lose market share to Fractal and Kemper, and the Helix is designed to recover it.  This has already been stated, look it up if you want.  WRONG.

 

Whether the AX8 was known or not when the Helix was in development is irrelevant because we all knew about neither.  From the public eye we knew about AX8 before Helix.  WRONG.

 

Your last comment was just your opinion - but again you missed the point.  If they add new models and effects it doesn't change the ones you are using so - yep WRONG again.

 

What was your point again?

 

Mine is this - the Helix is cool but way behind Fractal with number of amps, effects, and cabs.  Setting a goal to model and release so many amps and so forth per month isn't an unreasonable goal.  If I was @ Line 6, that's exactly what I'd be doing.

 

Gee, put words in people's mouths much?

 

Only going to comment on my last comment. You say if they add new models and effects it doesn't change the ones you are using. Are there any Axe FX users in here who can share their experiences of firmware updates changing the sound of their patches and having to go and adjust them after? I've heard about that plenty. And yes, it happens with L6, too.

 

Look, Axe FX II and AX8 both great great products. For some people, they will be better choices. For others, including me, they aren't for one reason or another.

[ozbadman]

Since we're talking about apples and oranges, AX8 is single cab only, and a lot uglier. Less inputs. Lots more effects and amps, and similar price point, but very different beast to the Helix. And it has an editor. :)

[PeterHamm]

Since we're talking about apples and oranges, AX8 is single cab only, and a lot uglier. Less inputs. Lots more effects and amps, and similar price point, but very different beast to the Helix. And it has an editor. :)

 

The AX8 looks AMAZING to me. If I didn't do the 2-voice thing virtually all the time (AX8 is only one chain) it'd really be on my radar. As it is, one of the other guitar players at my church here who goes direct and is a gearhead is about to upgrade from HD 500 to AX8. Between his AX8 (once he gets to the top of the list, which at this point might be 2020) and me on Helix... I think they'll play nicely together tone-wise.

 

What a time to be doing this!

[phil_m]

Since we're talking about apples and oranges, AX8 is single cab only, and a lot uglier. Less inputs. Lots more effects and amps, and similar price point, but very different beast to the Helix. And it has an editor. :)

 

Well, you can run dual cabs in the way of loading a stereo IR in the AX8, but 1) you have to either find a stereo IR you like or create your own, and 2) you have to actually load it into the AX8. After you do that, the IR is what it is. You can't change mics and other parameters without loading another IR.

 

I had the AX8 briefly, and it's a nice little box. There were some things I really liked, but the main thing for me is that I just felt that without having the editor open, editing the unit itself is a very frustrating experience, at least for me. I really need the ability to change things on the fly, and I know I'm not going have access to a laptop in most situations. So in that sense, the Helix has a huge advantage for me. I've said if a number of times, but one of the main reasons I have been a repeat Line 6 customer (and just to be clear, even though I have gotten a few beta units from Line 6, I've bought the vast majority of stuff I own from them) is that they seem to be one of the few companies building multi-fx devices that take the ergonomic side of things seriously. The fact is that most guitarists don't care what a box is capable of if they can't figure out how to do it.