Helix firmware 3.00..very nice, but how much will I ever use the rich polyphonic effects section?

[Guest]

I appreciate Line 6 's effort to implement the effects section with Poly sinth etc, but I would have preferred that beyond the update it had included more amp models rather than effects. Maybe a Marshall Major or a Fender Concert together with Princeton would have been wonderful! I am an "old school" guy and I think I will rarely use all that Poly! Among other things, I noticed that their insertion in the chain - especially when using an external IR - determines a high use of DSP.
Anyway, I believe that at this point, the effects section is really huge and complete and I hope that the next Line 6' s efforts will be aimed at improving the dynamics of the amp models, especially those concerning clean sounds which, IMHO, are still missing a bit of "life"...

Edited December 3, 2020 by Guest

[datacommando]

18 hours ago, viola said:

Anyway, I believe that at this point, the effects section is really huge and complete and I hope that the next Line 6' s efforts will be aimed at improving the dynamics of the amp models

Hi,

 

You do realise that posting this here is not enough - you actually have to post your ideas/request onto the IdeaScale site to be voted on.

Find it here:

 

https://line6.ideascale.com

 

Ensure that nobody else has made the same request, and if they have you can vote it up.

 

Afterwards  you can post here in the correct thread to let other users know what you have asked for, and they can vote for it if they like the idea.

 

https://line6.com/support/topic/14497-helix-ideascale-community-submissions/page/1/

 

Furthermore, all those poly effects got into the Helix, because they started out on IdeaScale. Also, just because a poly effect is in the firmware, it doesn’t mean that you have to use it.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[cruisinon2]

You'll use it this much______.

[DunedinDragon]

I can understand why Line 6 spent the effort on the polyphonic stuff because it's been an ongoing thread of discussion since almost day 1 of the release of the Helix, so there is clearly a significant audience for it.   As much as I'm liking the Princeton model, I can't say I have a huge driving need for a bunch of other amps as I can get the range of sounds I need out of the ones that are there now.  So when it comes to individual wants, especially amps, the requests are all over the place.  As pointed out by Datacommando, Ideascale is the only place Line 6 will go to determine how prominent a request is...and that's how polyphonic effects got there.  It was VOTED on...with LOTS of votes.

Personally I can see where I might use one or two of them in a simple preset.  But I know I will use favorites and default settings a LOT as well as a fair amount of use probably for the Horizon distortion effect, poly capo, 12 string emulation and probably the Princeton amp.  So at least there's something for almost everyone in this release I think.  Given that it was free, I think the price was well worth the upgrade.

[Guest]

Excuse me all for the wrong place  I' ve posted my topic....!

I did'nt t know that a LOT of players voted for poliphonic effects .

I thought that the "era" of the "massive effects / unrecognizable guitars" was dead many years ago... I was  totally wrong !

Surely, that ' s  too much for me.  I've began to hate effects (only a little bit of delay ) since  I whatched at a Jeff Beck  show in Rome  in the mid 80's ....Strat w/dive bar + vol. and tone pot + Plexi + delay = TONS of different  GUITAR TONES...without any effect !

If Line 6 Helix future "philosophy" will be more effects an less amps  because a LOT of players VOTE this "trend" , no problem:  3.00 will be my last update (if  I' d not lost Princeton, I'd  stayed  happy with 2.92 ) 

Best regards 

 

[PierM]

1 hour ago, viola said:

Excuse me all for the wrong place  I' ve posted my topic....!

I did'nt t know that a LOT of players voted for poliphonic effects .

I thought that the "era" of the "massive effects / unrecognizable guitars" was dead many years ago... I was  totally wrong !

Surely, that ' s  too much for me.  I've began to hate effects (only a little bit of delay ) since  I whatched at a Jeff Beck  show in Rome  in the mid 80's ....Strat w/dive bar + vol. and tone pot + Plexi + delay = TONS of different  GUITAR TONES...without any effect !

If Line 6 Helix future "philosophy" will be more effects an less amps  because a LOT of players VOTE this "trend" , no problem:  3.00 will be my last update (if  I' d not lost Princeton, I'd  stayed  happy with 2.92 ) 

Best regards 

 

 

Well prog and avantgard are indeed dead and buried in the market, but there is plenty of musicians that keeps experimenting and enjoying these tools. Remember 99.9% of guitar players on the planet, are not in the market (not taking into account youtube players), are just having fun and enjoying their own projects. Helix is a wonderful platform for them.

[datacommando]

2 hours ago, viola said:

3.00 will be my last update (if  I' d not lost Princeton, I'd  stayed  happy with 2.92 ) 

Sadly, what you are experiencing is the inevitable march of progress. 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, PierM said:

 

Well prog and avantgard are indeed dead and buried in the market, but there is plenty of musicians that keeps experimenting and enjoying these tools. Remember 99.9% of guitar players on the planet, are not in the market (not taking into account youtube players), are just having fun and enjoying their own projects. Helix is a wonderful platform for them.

Absolutely true...

 

P. S. Many thanks to "C4TH " that reacted  "-"  to al my posts!  Why you don't explain your thought, instead putting a " -" so I understand why you put "-"? 

I really don' t like how this forum is articulated....  

Bahhh,.........It' s time to me to go out,  return in the real world. I' ll survive also without this forum.

Thanks to all of us that are talked with me, criticizing me,  also making fun o me, but TALKINGwith me and... va............lo to all others "reactors".

 

[codamedia]

On 12/4/2020 at 3:45 AM, viola said:

If Line 6 Helix future "philosophy" will be more effects an less amps  because a LOT of players VOTE this "trend" , no problem:  3.00 will be my last update (if  I' d not lost Princeton, I'd  stayed  happy with 2.92 ) 

 

Why would you be upset that Line 6 added something you might not use? The versatility of the machine expands the market share... the more people buy into the platform the more Line 6 can expand the platform with more updates. 

 

On 12/4/2020 at 3:45 AM, viola said:

I've began to hate effects (only a little bit of delay ) since  I whatched at a Jeff Beck  show in Rome  in the mid 80's ....Strat w/dive bar + vol. and tone pot + Plexi + delay = TONS of different  GUITAR TONES...without any effect !

 

No harm in that.... you have found what you like. 

Last time I looked.... the Helix still has a few Plexi options (and some variants) along with several delay types, included some new ones in this update. They didn't take any of that away to add in PolyPitch. 

[brue58ski]

3 hours ago, viola said:

  3.00 will be my last update (if  I' d not lost Princeton, I'd  stayed  happy with 2.92 )

 

Oh don't say that. There's an excellent chance that I won't use the pitch stuff either. But I'm OK with Line 6 creating it for other people that will use it AND there is generally a new amp or two or three or.....so still keep updating. I don't use all of the amps, but I won't stop updating because of it. And, if you don't you'll probably be the one missing out. I mean, now that they've gotten the all of the pitch stuff out (as said before, it was a very poplular request) I wonder what they will come up with next. And it doesn't effect the performance of the Helix in any way if you don't use it. I know the Rat distorion is being "fixed". That is the only thing I know for sure for the next update. So don't sell yourself short. There may be stuff that you don't want in updates, but chances are there will be something. I mean with this update, I love that I can now set the model's default parameters so they come up with my parameters every time I call it up. That and the favorites option as well. Great tools. Wouldn't have them if I didn't update. Don't give up yet!!!

[PierM]

1 hour ago, codamedia said:

 

No harm in that.... you have found what you like. 

Last time I looked.... the Helix still has a few Plexi options (and some variants) along with several delay types, included some new ones in this update. They didn't take any of that away to add in PolyPitch. 

 I never said that sentence in the quote, but for some reason looks like you quoted me... some forum glitch. :D

[Rocco_Crocco]

Only the things I want matter!!!!!

[codamedia]

On 12/4/2020 at 7:46 AM, PierM said:

 I never said that sentence in the quote, but for some reason looks like you quoted me... some forum glitch. :D

 

You are right.... I know it was "viola" I was quoting. 

I just edited my post and that quote is now properly crediting "viola" as the author.   Sorry about that! 

[DugT]

On 12/4/2020 at 1:45 AM, viola said:

.... I've began to hate effects (only a little bit of delay ) ....

 

In your OP you said  "I hope that the next Line 6' s efforts will be aimed at improving the dynamics of the amp models, especially those concerning clean sounds which, IMHO, are still missing a bit of "life"..."

It is my experience that effects are how "Life" is added to tone. Only using "a little bit of delay" would make the tone way too dry for me. 

Maybe you should start a thread, "How can I add Dynamics and LIfe to clean tones."  

[KasperFauerby]

what a drama queen... unbelievable... 

 

 

[DBCrocky]

Yeah, everyone wants different stuff.  I have no need for more amp models, but I have been super happy with the new control functions like the ability to customize stomp mode and the Auto Spillover function.  Finally, I can use the Helix without having a Bank Dn or Preset Dn switch in the bottom row to actually hit!  I know other folks don't have any use for Auto Spillover, but I like it!  I am appreciative that the Line6 folks are still making improvements.

 

Now if they will only put a global setting for the Variax knobs and change the output switchers so they will support all four possibilities rather than just three...:D

 

[cruisinon2]

The OP is the poster boy for why our species is doomed..."Gimme what I want and shelve the rest! If I don't need it, nobody does!"

 

Boggles the mind...

[jpdennis]

In regards to the initial question by the Guest OP.  The polyphonic feature has already helped me dial in a clean and extremely satisfying polyphonic setting for three of my patches.  I have found that the new FX models & features as they are added seem to let me become more curious in regards to the "what if?" code in my DNA.  YMMV

 

Dennis

[Kevin-M]

The polyphonic effects is a great addition to an already great platform. I think we’re at the beginning of poly stuff that currently requires a hex pickup to implement. I believe in the next 10 years even a tuning like DADGAD will be possible without the need for a hex pickup.  This is really exciting stuff, in my opinion.

[antonio1961]

As with any polyphonic effects ,the Helix polyphonic stuff used subtly ,and mixed properly ,will sound absolutely fine in a live band situation.

[HonestOpinion]

On 12/13/2020 at 11:42 PM, Kevin-M said:

The polyphonic effects is a great addition to an already great platform. I think we’re at the beginning of poly stuff that currently requires a hex pickup to implement. I believe in the next 10 years even a tuning like DADGAD will be possible without the need for a hex pickup.  This is really exciting stuff, in my opinion.

 

I agree, the ability to identify and separate the processing for each string through a mono pickup in real time with minimal lag is definitely coming. My main point over the next few paragraphs though, intended more in the spirit of a suggestion to guitar manufacturers rather than a rant, is we need to move to hex pickups as the norm. Modern processors just have the capacity to work far better with them.

 

Don't get me wrong, I welcome having polyphony that works with all my mono pickups guitars but it is legitimate to ask, why do we even need it, other than as a bridge for older legacy guitars. We have hex technology now. Hex pickups and cables can be produced relatively cheaply and for everyone outside of the coil-wind cork sniffers(some legitimate sniffing going on there) are essentially a standard pickup with six wires connected to the poles instead of having them bridged. Pickup technology has been strangely calcified for decades now. Adoption of new tech for the guitar has dramatically accelerated  in the past decade or more with the arrival and development of, at long last, convincing modeling and digital processing. Modern digital modeling is in some respects akin to what CGI enabled film companies to do; rendering spectacles that simply weren't possible prior to its development.

 

The other components feeding modelers, namely the guitar, now have to adapt as well. We have the hardware and algorithms that can vary things like the pitch, level, envelope, applied effects, etc. of each string individually yet pickup technology still lags behind unnecessarily hamstringing processors . Arguably the current modeling/processing technology works best when the signal for each string is provided separately yet we still have primarily mono pickups. At least on the guitars most people prefer. Hex pickups remain a specialty item that require either a guitar manufactured with one(not many made) or a klugey after market solution such as a Roland GK pickup. Why is that? Long after we have developed the ability to track and process six discrete channels in our processors we still provide monophonic pickups as the standard.

 

I believe that if six channels(or seven or eight depending on the guitar) were the norm there would be benefits to having the channels separated even if you did not use any guitar "synthy" or poly type effects(but you would want to). As a matter of fact poly would become the standard with mono being a "legacy" effect. A few examples: Your strings' levels could be adjusted on the fly so that high and low strings blended together better taking Fletcher-Munson into account and able to adapt and customize the differences between for example high and low string levels after they leave the pickup. Individual strings could have sustain or compression applied to keep them ringing or damping more in sync.  Alternate tunings would be readily and instantly available on any guitar.  Individual EQ could be applied to each string(a little to fiddly for many I know but could be very useful in a studio setting or for acoustic guitar tracks). With hex pickups different strings can easily be processed by different effect or even amp/cab blocks. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

The possibilities are endless and some have been implemented in hex guitar synth systems but not explored nearly as comprehensively as they could be.  Partly due to the fact that this technology is still "exotic" to many players and consequently device manufacturers when, with the modelers now available, it could be part of a standard setup. Look at almost any other area in technology, networking being particularly analogous. Adding more "pipes" for data almost always results in gains in performance, expands the uses possible for the technology, and drives innovative future software development. Having this as a standard would have long since pushed modeling companies to  leverage and develop the multitude of creative things that can be done with six discrete channels to play with instead of one. Instead this is still primarily the domain of the guitar synth where we have barely scratched the surface. Easy enough to provide hex pickups on every guitar with an optional switch for monophonic for those who prefer the old standard.  Some might see that as opting for a modem over your fiber optic connection though. 

 

If hexaphonic pickups became the standard I would not be surprised to also see some very interesting six channel amps and effects and even surround sound systems and monitors would be developed as well. Gonna require a fat wallet for those.

 

As I believe someone else here commented all you have to do is look over at your keyboardist's rig. Those who tickle the ivories have enjoyed polyphony and multi-timbral devices as a standard for decades now while the guitar still treats it like an oddity.  Important to note btw, that it is not just about polyphonic but multi-timbral options as well. Not to beat a dead drum but why, long after we have developed the ability to process each of those channels/strings separately, are we still providing a conveyance(the pickup) with only one channel when our source(our guitar's strings) has six? 

[Kevin-M]

3 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

I agree, the ability to identify and separate the processing for each string through a mono pickup in real time with minimal lag is definitely coming. My main point over the next few paragraphs though, intended more in the spirit of a suggestion to guitar manufacturers rather than a rant, is we need to move to hex pickups as the norm. Modern processors just have the capacity to work far better with them.

 

Don't get me wrong, I welcome having polyphony that works with all my mono pickups guitars but it is legitimate to ask, why do we even need it, other than as a bridge for older legacy guitars. We have hex technology now. Hex pickups and cables can be produced relatively cheaply and for everyone outside of the coil-wind cork sniffers(some legitimate sniffing going on there) are essentially a standard pickup with six wires connected to the poles instead of having them bridged. Pickup technology has been strangely calcified for decades now. Adoption of new tech for the guitar has dramatically accelerated  in the past decade or more with the arrival and development of, at long last, convincing modeling and digital processing. Modern digital modeling is in some respects akin to what CGI enabled film companies to do; rendering spectacles that simply weren't possible prior to its development.

 

The other components feeding modelers, namely the guitar, now have to adapt as well. We have the hardware and algorithms that can vary things like the pitch, level, envelope, applied effects, etc. of each string individually yet pickup technology still lags behind unnecessarily hamstringing processors . Arguably the current modeling/processing technology works best when the signal for each string is provided separately yet we still have primarily mono pickups. At least on the guitars most people prefer. Hex pickups remain a specialty item that require either a guitar manufactured with one(not many made) or a klugey after market solution such as a Roland GK pickup. Why is that? Long after we have developed the ability to track and process six discrete channels in our processors we still provide monophonic pickups as the standard.

 

I believe that if six channels(or seven or eight depending on the guitar) were the norm there would be benefits to having the channels separated even if you did not use any guitar "synthy" or poly type effects(but you would want to). As a matter of fact poly would become the standard with mono being a "legacy" effect. A few examples: Your strings' levels could be adjusted on the fly so that high and low strings blended together better taking Fletcher-Munson into account and able to adapt and customize the differences between for example high and low string levels after they leave the pickup. Individual strings could have sustain or compression applied to keep them ringing or damping more in sync.  Alternate tunings would be readily and instantly available on any guitar.  Individual EQ could be applied to each string(a little to fiddly for many I know but could be very useful in a studio setting or for acoustic guitar tracks). With hex pickups different strings can easily be processed by different effect or even amp/cab blocks. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

The possibilities are endless and some have been implemented in hex guitar synth systems but not explored nearly as comprehensively as they could be.  Partly due to the fact that this technology is still "exotic" to many players and consequently device manufacturers when, with the modelers now available, it could be part of a standard setup. Look at almost any other area in technology, networking being particularly analogous. Adding more "pipes" for data almost always results in gains in performance, expands the uses possible for the technology, and drives innovative future software development. Having this as a standard would have long since pushed modeling companies to  leverage and develop the multitude of creative things that can be done with six discrete channels to play with instead of one. Instead this is still primarily the domain of the guitar synth where we have barely scratched the surface. Easy enough to provide hex pickups on every guitar with an optional switch for monophonic for those who prefer the old standard.  Some might see that as opting for a modem over your fiber optic connection though. 

 

If hexaphonic pickups became the standard I would not be surprised to also see some very interesting six channel amps and effects and even surround sound systems and monitors would be developed as well. Gonna require a fat wallet for those.

 

As I believe someone else here commented all you have to do is look over at your keyboardist's rig. Those who tickle the ivories have enjoyed polyphony and multi-timbral devices as a standard for decades now while the guitar still treats it like an oddity.  Important to note btw, that it is not just about polyphonic but multi-timbral options as well. Not to beat a dead drum but why, long after we have developed the ability to process each of those channels/strings separately, are we still providing a conveyance(the pickup) with only one channel when our source(our guitar's strings) has six? 

I’m a long time user of Roland/Boss guitar/synth modeling gear and love it, but the simplest response is that guitarists haven’t taken to it that readily and it’s been poorly marketed. Also, the external pickup ‘wart’ is fugly and there aren’t enough Roland-ready options out there.

[HonestOpinion]

58 minutes ago, Kevin-M said:

I’m a long time user of Roland/Boss guitar/synth modeling gear and love it, but the simplest response is that guitarists haven’t taken to it that readily and it’s been poorly marketed. Also, the external pickup ‘wart’ is fugly and there aren’t enough Roland-ready options out there.

 

Adoption has been slow but with an ever growing number of players migrating over to modelers, incorporating polyphony, multi-timbral, and synthesis capabilities will become more and more natural to increasingly tech savvy players who will essentially find it to be just an extension and enhancement of what they are doing already.

[caledoneus]

how much will you use it?  Don't know.

 

But, the fact is that there are people who were desperately needing it. I won't use it much myself, but I'm happy to have the option there if I need it.  There is so much in this update, that I think there is something there for everyone.  That's just one guys opinion though I guess. :)