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Seems theres something on the way for guitarists at NAMM

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Another thing about Niles I like is that he , like Miles Davis and the Edge, believes that it's not so much the notes you put in that makes it funky. It's the notes you leave out!!!

 

It is the exact opposite philosophy to the 'shredder ethos' of 'how many notes can u fit in a 30 second solo

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1) Don't forget that you don't have to purchase the new model packs.

 

Hey silverhead

 

Are they going to be free for us HD500x owners?

 

Could please explain a little more?

 

regards,

Charles

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Another thing about Niles I like is that he , like Miles Davis and the Edge, believes that it's not so much the notes you put in that makes it funky. It's the notes you leave out!!!

 

 

Love that concept! That's the core of good music for me. It reminds me of a quote from that movie 'Almost Famous'..

 

"But… it’s not what you put in, is it?

It’s what you leave out.  Listen to… listen to Marvin Gaye…

A song like “What’s Going On.† That single “woo†at the end of the second verse – you know that woo – that single “woo.â€

That’s what you remember.  The silly things, the little things… there’s only one, and it makes the song.

It’s what you leave out.  That’s rock and roll."

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If I heard right, there's another version of the JCM 800 coming our way right? Does that mean more jangly classic JCM-800 tones? The normal one is ok in some applications but it doesn't have the attack that most other JCM 800 modelers have.

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Apologies for probably asking a question that has already been dealt with, but is there room in memory on the HD Desktop (Bean) for both the Metal and Vintage amp packs?

 

* * *

 

I noticed upthread that 'iknowathingortwo' made a robust case for the JC120 being in the Metal pack. I don't want to make that argument nor to criticise the marketing department at Line 6, but is there perhaps a third way? Would it be possible for a 'roll your own' user-selected $49 pack option to be introduced? That way everybody who is prepared to pay for the hard work and skill of the developers could pick their own cherries and be happy.

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Yes the packs will be available to the bean.

 

and no... the packs are not going to be available ala carte....

 

Apologies for probably asking a question that has already been dealt with, but is there room in memory on the HD Desktop (Bean) for both the Metal and Vintage amp packs?

 

* * *

 

I noticed upthread that 'iknowathingortwo' made a robust case for the JC120 being in the Metal pack. I don't want to make that argument nor to criticise the marketing department at Line 6, but is there perhaps a third way? Would it be possible for a 'roll your own' user-selected $49 pack option to be introduced? That way everybody who is prepared to pay for the hard work and skill of the developers could pick their own cherries and be happy.

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Yes the packs will be available to the bean.

 

and no... the packs are not going to be available ala carte....

 

 

Thanks for the quick response, RealZap.

 

Re: the ala carte, well, it was just a thought. One tries to be constructive ;-). For the record, and since there is room enough, I will be buying both. I am as mean as the next man but always prepared to pay for quality.

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i liked the idea of individual amps....

but the powers that be, chose another route.

 

Thanks for the quick response, RealZap.

 

Re: the ala carte, well, it was just a thought. One tries to be constructive ;-). For the record, and since there is room enough, I will be buying both. I am as mean as the next man but always prepared to pay for quality.

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but the powers that be, chose another route.

 

We got to fight the powers that be.

 

With apologies to Chuck D

 

It's all we can do :-)

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Moderators

 

I chose my user name for my own convenience not realising that if I commented here it looks as though I'm a L6 employee or pretending to be one. This is embarrassing.

 

I have *tried* to change my screen name but despite logging out, deleting cookies, logging in again etc I *still* seem to be stuck with my original user name. This post is a test to see if when I actually comment, the new name is now applied. Please feel free to delete.

 

Sorry for any confusion caused.

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Regarding the JC-120, could it not be available in both vintage and metal packs?  No one is going to choose not to buy one or the other because they already got the JC-120 in the other.  Why does everything have to be so mutually exclusive?  A little overlap makes more sense to me.  As far as whether or not it's a metal amp...Metallica (used to?) uses it for their cleans.

 

Regardless, it's nice to see that Line 6 has not abandoned the Pod HD platform and is continuing to develop substantial updates.

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It's called making money.  They could also sell each model separately, but they would make less profit from us piecemealing our model libraries at $5.00 a pop.  Most people will probably end up buying at least two, if not all three packs for this reason.  I could justify it, myself.  

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JC-120 is not a metal amp. Metal bands used a JAZZ amp for cleans in the studio because its, well, really clean. That doesn't make it a metal amp.

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Um ok... so metal bands use an amp on their metal album to deliver pristine clean tones, which are tonally considered an aspect of the "metal" sound...BUT ITS NOT A METAL AMP

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Yeah, but lot of other bands use it soit's not a metal amp. But for example, how much jazz bands do you see using a 5150? :D

 

Please Line6 hear my prays, make an Orange PPC 412 cab model!!!!!!!!

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Yes the packs will be available to the bean.

 

and no... the packs are not going to be available ala carte....

 

Edit: misread that, sorry.

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Um ok... so metal bands use an amp on their metal album to deliver pristine clean tones, which are tonally considered an aspect of the "metal" sound...BUT ITS NOT A METAL AMP

yeah, thats pretty much exactly what I said, lol.

 

I'm sure lots of metal bands in the past have used Fender amps for cleans, too (dude from Mastodon uses one live right now for cleans) but they're not metal amps. I understand why metal guys WANT the amp......but it's not really a "metal" amp like the others in that pack.

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Look I'm not arguing it's a "metal amp".  I don't think any amp should be labeled as a <insert genre> amp.  I think that's being way too literal and close-minded.  All that matters is whether musicians inside some genre demonstrate a preference for said amp.  When Line 6 puts out a "metal amp" pack, I interpret that as meaning "Here are some amps that work well for metal players", not "Here is a collection of 'metal amps'".  Sure the Jazz Chorus 120 has Jazz in its name.  How many other amps are named like that?  Maybe some amps have Blues or Rock in their name.  And there are plenty of high gain amps that have "edgy" names like Armageddon, Savage, Dark Terror, etc. 

 

But here's the thing.  Other than the SLO, Line 6 isn't modeling the clean channel of such amps, which are often designed to provide pristine cleans like the JC-120.  So instead of saying why not include the JC-120 in the metal pack as well as vintage, which would be the easiest and simplest solution for all parties involved, are you arguing metal players should buy the vintage pack as well...to play metal?

 

We could also argue that Blues players aren't getting a model pack at all.  But that's absurd - it's all just labels.  So why not just allow some overlap in model packs?

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it is all just a label... just like the labeling on the packs...

its just a name... one pack contains the JC120 and one doesn't.

get whatever pack that has an amp you want....

in the case of you wanting metal amp + JC120 i'd just get the triple pack for the same price.

that's like complaining that your meatloaf tv dinner didnt include the brownie... and now you have to by country fried chicken dinner and the meatloaf dinner to get the brownie....

crappy analogy for sure... but in other words... that's the way it's packaged. and it is what it is.

 

 

Look I'm not arguing it's a "metal amp".  I don't think any amp should be labeled as a <insert genre> amp.  I think that's being way too literal and close-minded.  All that matters is whether musicians inside some genre demonstrate a preference for said amp.  When Line 6 puts out a "metal amp" pack, I interpret that as meaning "Here are some amps that work well for metal players", not "Here is a collection of 'metal amps'".  Sure the Jazz Chorus 120 has Jazz in its name.  How many other amps are named like that?  Maybe some amps have Blues or Rock in their name.  And there are plenty of high gain amps that have "edgy" names like Armageddon, Savage, Dark Terror, etc. 

 

But here's the thing.  Other than the SLO, Line 6 isn't modeling the clean channel of such amps, which are often designed to provide pristine cleans like the JC-120.  So instead of saying why not include the JC-120 in the metal pack as well as vintage, which would be the easiest and simplest solution for all parties involved, are you arguing metal players should buy the vintage pack as well...to play metal?

 

We could also argue that Blues players aren't getting a model pack at all.  But that's absurd - it's all just labels.  So why not just allow some overlap in model packs?

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I don't pin my hopes on any particular type of amp, but I will be getting the full pack mainly to see what it's all about. At $49 each for the metal & vintage packs - I'm going to get both, then, well I'm at the $99 level anyway, so I'll get the bass pack as well for basically nada with the whole shebang. Will I use all the models? -- highly unlikely.... I tend towards the Fender amps for the most part anyways -- always have. For distortion patches, I typically add distortion pedal models in front of the fender amp, Tube Screamer for classic rock and classic distortion for heavier. But I do like to experiment with other amps, just have rarely gotten them to my comfort level for gigging with. The one I do use is the Dr. Z, but just for a couple specific songs. With my $500 HD500X plus the full packs, I figure I'll be at the cost level of the HD PRO X, without the extra floor board...

 

Dave

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I have to believe, with folks on this forum being the way they are, that if there WAS overlap, people would be up in arms that they paid for the same amp twice.

 

Now, offering a "pick any 10 amps for $50" might not be a bad idea, because that's not "quite" a la carte and not quite a company-selected bundle. Company still makes decent profit, folks get amps they want. Seems kinda win-win to me.

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Look, I don't have a dog in this fight.  I'm not going to buy any of the packs.  I'm just suggesting that it would be nice if L6 included the JC-120 in the metal pack to throw the metal players a bone.  One of the main gripes repeated over and over again about the unit is that there are no pristine clean amps.  I had great success tweaking the Fender Twin to be completely clean, but it was a little more involved than most would think, especially before the amp DEP's were added (see http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/ampTone#pureClean).  When we had that whole argument, lots of ppl came to L6's defense saying that's just how the amp works, and that it wasn't designed for high-output humbucking pickups.  No argument there, but as the cleanest amp model in the unit, metal players (who nearly exclusively use high-output humbuckers) are unable to get a pristine clean without wasting FX blocks on fixed volume pedal or EQ effects to prevent driving the amp into clipping.

 

I dunno.  After basically 2 years of nothing, if I thought L6 was trying to milk an extra $50 out of me for the pristine clean amp model that wasn't delivered from day 1 on the unit, I'd be a little sour.  I was hoping this update would be a step in the right direction, but the more I think about it, the more I find it a bit weak.  I don't mind the pay for amps paradigm.  I was very happy to shell out $50 for the metal pack on the XT, and it included quite a few amps, most of which were my favorites for the unit.  This update has a 5150 and a Shiva.  Not sure why I should be excited about a 2nd JCM-800 - if the first one wasn't considered great, why not upgrade that one?  Everything else is just a port from the XT/X3, which while nice is little to be excited about, especially since you have to pay for it.

 

If the 5150 and Shiva are bonkers good, then it's worth it for sure.  Much cheaper than an actual 5150 and much, much, much cheaper than an actual Shiva (badass amp and excellent selection btw).  It just sucks that everything that seems to come from this company comes with another annoyance...and another forum fight.

 

And still no Mesa Marks, which are actually my favorite amps.

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And still no Mesa Marks, which are actually my favorite amps.

 

 

Yeah, those Mesa Mark IV's are a killer amp! 

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Luckily, for me, I have never relied on an amp to give me tone. They only gave me volume. 

I've always been an fx guy. Even when it was a just a clean/distorted guitar, it was always fx.

 

I guess that could be one of the reasons I can so easily give up my amps and use the pod straight to the pa?

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After not using it much during my many holiday gigs last year I have started using my HD500/ Line 6 Wireless/ Fender BDRI or HRDLXiii rig live using the preamps of the HD500 into the effect return of my amps and the Fender Twins are Eric Johnson clean at volume.

Great tones lead/ mid gain rhythm / jazzy / Marshall gainy/Boogie etc...I have had no trouble getting cleans from this unit.

I dont bother with the 4 cable method I just run the mono out to my amps effect return and mic the amp with a Senheiser mic and it more than gets the job done.

I own and use a Roland Cube 80 XL which is very similar to the JC120 tone wise and I dont miss it on the typical cover gig when playing my HD500.

 

I also use the HD with various FRFR setups and it kills I just turn the DEP cab parameters almost off lol! and they work very well.

That part took a while to figure out but man has it been worth it.

Once again really digging my HD500.

I played an afternoon cover gig with one of my trios today and it was so good I FORGOT I WAS USING IT!!!!

 

Thats what I'm talkin' about!

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I dunno.  After basically 2 years of nothing, if I thought L6 was trying to milk an extra $50 out of me for the pristine clean amp model that wasn't delivered from day 1 on the unit, I'd be a little sour.  I was hoping this update would be a step in the right direction, but the more I think about it, the more I find it a bit weak.  I don't mind the pay for amps paradigm.  I was very happy to shell out $50 for the metal pack on the XT, and it included quite a few amps, most of which were my favorites for the unit.  This update has a 5150 and a Shiva.  Not sure why I should be excited about a 2nd JCM-800 - if the first one wasn't considered great, why not upgrade that one?  Everything else is just a port from the XT/X3, which while nice is little to be excited about, especially since you have to pay for it.

 

If the 5150 and Shiva are bonkers good, then it's worth it for sure.  Much cheaper than an actual 5150 and much, much, much cheaper than an actual Shiva (badass amp and excellent selection btw).  It just sucks that everything that seems to come from this company comes with another annoyance...and another forum fight.

 

And still no Mesa Marks, which are actually my favorite amps.

 

I agree. Not my intention to feed the forum fight, but maybe the definition "Metal Amp" is quite confusing...

What is the definition of "Metal Amp"? Is it corresponding to "High Gain amp"? I don't think so, because the JCM800 is a vintage mid-gain amp but it is universally recognised as "metal amp" because a lot of 80s metal bands used it and is actually present in the metal pack. For the same logic I think that JC-120 could easily be inserted in the metal pack (just because a lot of metal bands used it), even if it is not a metal amp for definition. 

So we might assume that Line6 gift for metalheads will be the new JCM800 in the metal pack.

My real hope is that this new firmware shall bring an easier customization and high gain sounds that need less tweaking. Some high gain sounds with POD HD are quite hard to achieve (you have to study the manuals and the superb meambobbo's bible and then work for hours on the machine) and the equalization is really painful (especially if you want the punch but not the mud). If the new amps in the metal packs will be easier to configure and will have that punch, than I will be very happy to spend an extra 50$.

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1. Metal means different things to different people. 

Sabbath made music without all of this modern junk. But they are way different than Morbid Angel. Both of which, who are different than TSO. 

2. Yes, there are 'metal' amps.

Simply because designers have made them for the purpose of making 'metal'. Krankenstein doesn't say 'hear my smooth jazz', they say 'make the metal, krank it up'. They have boosted the 'distortion' capabilities to the point that no one but metal would want them. And sacrificing cleans and tone to do so. 

 

 

3. We all have modelers. So why are we discussing amps? 

Isn't the whole point of buying a modeler so you don't need to own 50 different amps but you can still sound like you have 50 amps? 

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how are these amp packs going to be paid for? online purchase only, or from my authorized dealer? how were the xt packs distributed at the time-?

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if it's implemented like their other software products (e.g. Pod Farm) the firmware build will include all available packs and options, but the ones you need to pay for will be locked and probably invisible. Then you will make an online purchase and download that will unlock the purchased products.

 

I doubt that the local retailer will be involved in the process.

 

... But that's just my guess - no inside info here.

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Will all be managed through line6 monkey. Hit a checkbox for the pack you want and insert credit card

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pack availability will depend on your pod... we should start seeing them for the x models within the next couple of months, and the non x models soon after.

not likely to be managed by monkey... more likely the license manager component... although that's a guess.

and i agree with silverhead... likely to be line6 online purchases only and not retailer available.

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I had great success tweaking the Fender Twin to be completely clean, but it was a little more involved than most would think

Curious, what amp are you using with your HD? I have a couple of DT's and an L2M. My cleans are pretty pristine through any one of them individually and especially collectively. When I use my HD with my Two Rock, the cleans are not so pristine.

 

And I totally agree with whoever mentioned that it is us blues and I am adding funk players that get no love. Why does metal music suck up all the oxygen in the room?

 

Where's my Robben Ford pack?

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easy question....

that's where guitars are the most obvious....

all other genres don't hype the gear and players to that extent.

 

if your into jazz or blues... you'd probably be more into rocking 30-40 year old gear than worried about cutting edge stuff...

generally speaking... cant say that applies to anyone here... we're obviously a bit different than that stereotype...

but it does make sense...

i'm certainly no fan of the bees in a can metal bands...

 

Why does metal music suck up all the oxygen in the room?

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I always went direct, so I can keep the volume pretty low, so through some M Audio BX8's or through my sennheiser 280 hd pro's.  With my main guitar (EBMM JPM), I cannot lower the pickups (without routing the guitar further) - they are fairly hot and quite close to the strings.  I swapped the originals for CL/LF - definitely a little brighter but not necessarily hotter.  If I strum hard over the bridge pickup, its a huge spike and will come close to clipping the pod at the input.  I don't really ever play like that, so it's not an issue.  I also have an Ibanez RGA8 which had SD Blackouts, and now has D-Activators.  The Blackouts are ridiculously hot, but it's different from the passives - you get less of a spike on hard picking - it actually seems to be like there's a limiter on them.  If I move them a little further from the pickups, they get a bit more dynamic.  Still much happier with the D-Activators - definitely not as hot as the Blackouts and much easier to deal with and they sound better.

 

Anyway, with all the input 1/2 settings and paths and being sure to use the Pad switch, it's very easy to clip the cleanest of the amp models if you are not careful.  Instead of eating up effect slots with EQ's and Compressors, I thought it would make more sense to stick them in the amp block like the super clean model in prior Pods.  Or an Acoustic Model - just EQ adjustments - seems simple enough  Not a big complaint, but I can see why it makes things a bit more difficult for people. (Still glad to see the arrival of Global EQ and its format seems very handy).

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if your into jazz or blues... you'd probably be more into rocking 30-40 year old gear than worried about cutting edge stuff...

generally speaking... cant say that applies to anyone here... we're obviously a bit different than that stereotype...

 

Funny...People who wax poetic about their 1964 gold top StratoPauliphone kind of get on my nerves! I play a slightly harder side of blues and Funkadelic style funk. It is not possible for me to care any less about having old gear! I want the newest and best gear primarily because with new gear come new sonic possibilities. Whether the newest and the best gear is coming from Line 6 or not is definitely debatable to many. But for me, I am diggin' what I'm gettin' so far!

 

I love metal guitar. But I like Robben Ford, Tuck Andres, Scott Henderson, Matt Schofield and Jeff Beck as well. Metal is where the money is for Line 6. God bless em'! Make as much as you can. Then take a little of that well earned dough and sprinkle some of that warm bluesy sauce into the mix every now and then.

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I need guitars that play well based on my preferences... which is why I buy every pre-'91 Jackson I find (in person). 

But, I am currently working on a country TV show, and working on a pop/rock movie. So, I can't always use neon pink skulls with pointy headstock. 

 

Electronic gear... 

I hadn't updated my last setup in 20 years.  

I replaced it with my HD500. I hope this lasts me 20 years. 

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