No Support - Why I won't buy another Variax even though I love them

[clilker]

I've had my JTV-69 for over  2 years now, use it frequently for live gigs a with a covers band here in the UK, and it's my go-to guitar. No other make of guitar can do as much, so well.

I also have a Variax 700 (my third) as a spare. When I had to get my Variax 700 fixed, (new piezo's - they do fail periodically)  I was very impressed with Line 6 service facility in the UK Midlands.

 

But how the picture has changed now. It seems that there is no support centre in the UK any more. All the support for the whole of  Europe now seems to be in Germany.

 

It's not easy to send my guitar to a different country  if (when) it breaks,  I can't even buy most parts for the guitars in Europe. According to the Line 6 support web site, there is not an authorized Variax service centre within a thousand miles!

So, when the time comes to replace my JTV with another Variax,  how likely am I to spend a substantial sum of money buying a high-tech guitar where there is no accessible support? Answer - not at all likely.

 

So, Line 6, my sincere congratulations on making a great product, and I'm very sad that this will be the end of the road for me as a Line 6 customer and advocate.

 

[silverhead]

Not sure what response, if any, you are expecting. Hope you enjoy your next guitar.

[cruisinon2]

Round and round we go...

 

As intricate as the JTVs are...it's not the space shuttle. Wouldn't a better question be "How likely am I to need service on the thing in the first place?"

 

Survey says: Not very...

[phil_m]

I'd be surprised if it stays that way. I imagine they're still getting all they're ducks in a row with the Yamaha acquisition.

[edstar1960]

Sounds like a re-org rationalisation stream lining process as a result of Yamaha take over. 

[Charlie_Watt]

I doubt it.  It is more likely just that the local repair center went out of business or got dropped for poor service.  I am sure that the repair centers are licensed by Line6 but are not really owned and operated by Line6. (with maybe some exceptions in the US)

[radatats]

damn, my one guitar might break so I think I will drag 4 or 5 others around with me instead...  what could go wrong?  lol...

[cruisinon2]

damn, my one guitar might break so I think I will drag 4 or 5 others around with me instead...  what could go wrong?  lol...

 

:lol:

[edstar1960]

I doubt it.  It is more likely just that the local repair center went out of business or got dropped for poor service.  I am sure that the repair centers are licensed by Line6 but are not really owned and operated by Line6. (with maybe some exceptions in the US)

 

The Line 6 service centre in the Midlands UK the OP is referring to, was actually the Line 6 UK Headquarters.  Maybe the Yamaha take over has meant they decided to close the UK Office and move it to a central European location.   I don't know for sure ...  but why else close the UK headquarters?

[Line6Tony]

Here is the UK service center:

 

  E & M Electronics
10 Peverel Drive, Granby, Milton Keynes, 
Buckinghamshire, MK1 1NL
Phone: +441908 375699
Email: line6@eandm.co

[Guitarkyller]

 

Here is the UK service center:

 

  E & M Electronics

10 Peverel Drive, Granby, Milton Keynes, 

Buckinghamshire, MK1 1NL

Phone: +441908 375699

Email: line6@eandm.co

 

 

Why did they close if it was the headquarters ??  People don't have the same confidence in sub-contractor support as they would an actual factory service center. Hopefully it will change for the better?

 

But, this is a way better answer than,"Bye---see ya later". 

 

                                                               Kylling It

[silverhead]

...

 

But, this is a way better answer than,"Bye---see ya later". 

 

                                                               

The reason I said bye is because that's what the OP was saying. He didn't ask for information. He didn't ask for help. He didn't seem to want any response at all. He was just saying goodbye. And it seems he meant it because he hasn't reappeared here. If he does reappear perhaps he didn't mean it after all, and will clarify what he did actually mean by his post if something else.

 

He said goodbye, and I responded in kind.

[cruisinon2]

He said goodbye, and I responded in kind.

But you didn't hold his hand, saying supportive and nurturing things, during what is obviously a time of great emotional upheaval...which of course makes you part of the problem, you heartless rogue. ;)

 

Lord knows I've stayed up nights ruminating over the next guitar I won't buy...Jeesh, gets whinier every day around here.

[Guitarkyller]

The reason I said bye is because that's what the OP was saying. He didn't ask for information. He didn't ask for help. He didn't seem to want any response at all. He was just saying goodbye. And it seems he meant it because he hasn't reappeared here. If he does reappear perhaps he didn't mean it after all, and will clarify what he did actually mean by his post if something else.

 

He said goodbye, and I responded in kind.

 

Well, I saw you took that down off your reply and I thank you for that.....It just seemed kinda COLD and un-expert like. 

You always have so much good info to add that I found this out of character for you.

 

                                                                 I'm just sayin'

 

                                                                                      Kylling It 

[cruisinon2]

Oh good, it's all settled...

 

When will the press release with the official apology be ready? If we hurry, we can still make the morning papers

[silverhead]

Well, I saw you took that down off your reply and I thank you for that.....It just seemed kinda COLD and un-expert like. 

You always have so much good info to add that I found this out of character for you.

 

                                                                 I'm just sayin'

 

                                                                                      Kylling It 

 

Took what down? I didn't change a thing in my original reply. What did you think I said?

[Guitarkyller]

It's funny how things dissappear from this forum and nobody will admit anything.

Your post had the good-bye statement, where's that ?, and a negitive vote from another forum member on it. Now both are missing ?? Then you added the" Hope you enjoy your next guitar".

Either yourself or a forum moderator removed it or edited it. That's the only possible way that it got changed. Either way isn't exactly honest.

I wasn't trying to start a fight or anything....Just thought we could try to be more polite and civil to each other, not crass or callous

as it's so easy to do online. When did some manners and class go out of style ????? 

 

                                                                     Shawn Kylling

[silverhead]

Hmmm.... You are right - my post has been modified. I am very surprised and a little concerned. My post did have the 'bye' statement, and I did not remove it. But it is now gone. And you are also right - it was either me or a forum moderator. And unless I am losing my memory it wasn't me. Because of that I am responding again rather than leave an impression of dishonesty on my part. Frankly I do not know who changed it, but I would like to find out for my own reasons.

 

Here are the forensics as far as I know:

 

If I recall exactly I was the first responder to the OP, and my post said:

 

"Not sure what response, if any, you are expecting... but... bye. Hope you enjoy with your next guitar." 

 

And you are right - the 'enjoy your guitar' part - even the grammatically incorrect part that has also been edited out - was added a minute or so after I posted the first sentence. You must have seen the initial post immediately. I often make a post and edit it immediately with an afterthought. Beyond a few minutes I either make a new post or acknowledge the edit.

 

As for the vote count, the display shows the net sum of all votes, down and up. The zero total indicates that another member gave it an up vote after you had already seen the down vote.

 

I don't want a fight either. I simply don't see anything inappropriate about my response and I am not being dishonest about the changes that were made to it  I acknowledged the fact that I said 'bye' in an earlier post. I never said 'see ya later'. We can agree to disagree about whether it was crass, callous, cold, or whatever. I don't care to debate that further. Other than the grammatical error (the word 'with' which I decided to leave in rather than edit out - that's why I know it was there) I am perfectly comfortable with my original post.

 

I share your views on maintaining a civil and polite forum, and I thank you for saying earlier that for me to seem otherwise is, in your opinion, out of character. I also appreciate your pointing out to me that my post was changed. I intend to look into that - perhaps I AM losing my mind!

 

Peace.

[jandrio]

...As for the vote count, the display shows the net sum of all votes, down and up. The zero total indicates that another member gave it an up vote after you had already seen the down vote....

 

 

i gave +1, so mathemanically (+1)+(-1) = zero :)

[Triryche]

so mathemanically

:lol:

[Guitarkyller]

 

 

 

 

Hmmm.... You are right - my post has been modified. I am very surprised and a little concerned. My post did have the 'bye' statement, and I did not remove it. But it is now gone. And you are also right - it was either me or a forum moderator. And unless I am losing my memory it wasn't me. Because of that I am responding again rather than leave an impression of dishonesty on my part. Frankly I do not know who changed it, but I would like to find out for my own reasons.

 

Here are the forensics as far as I know:

 

If I recall exactly I was the first responder to the OP, and my post said:

 

"Not sure what response, if any, you are expecting... but... bye. Hope you enjoy with your next guitar." 

 

And you are right - the 'enjoy your guitar' part - even the grammatically incorrect part that has also been edited out - was added a minute or so after I posted the first sentence. You must have seen the initial post immediately. I often make a post and edit it immediately with an afterthought. Beyond a few minutes I either make a new post or acknowledge the edit.

 

As for the vote count, the display shows the net sum of all votes, down and up. The zero total indicates that another member gave it an up vote after you had already seen the down vote.

 

I don't want a fight either. I simply don't see anything inappropriate about my response and I am not being dishonest about the changes that were made to it  I acknowledged the fact that I said 'bye' in an earlier post. I never said 'see ya later'. We can agree to disagree about whether it was crass, callous, cold, or whatever. I don't care to debate that further. Other than the grammatical error (the word 'with' which I decided to leave in rather than edit out - that's why I know it was there) I am perfectly comfortable with my original post.

 

I share your views on maintaining a civil and polite forum, and I thank you for saying earlier that for me to seem otherwise is, in your opinion, out of character. I also appreciate your pointing out to me that my post was changed. I intend to look into that - perhaps I AM losing my mind!

 

Peace.

 

Thanks for your reply.

I'm all good with it.

I just kinda felt that NOBODY likes to be told," Don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out".

Things get blown WAY out of proportion here.

If we met in person, we'd all get along......

Get the same people on a forum, and we shred each other at every chance we get.

 

Go Figure........??

                                                        Peace Back Silverhead

 

                                                                 Shawn

 

                                                             Still Kylling It

[BucF16]

I agree with the OP.  He posted a legit concern, that there wasn't a service center for a 1000 miles.  About 6 other dudes jumped on him before Line6 Tony actually did some homework and helped him out.

 

I guess you're allowed one down vote a day or I would have used 5 more.

 

How likely is your Vx to break?  Well I've had two and they've both needed to go to the shop at one time or another.  My old 700 became so problematic that I quit taking it in to be fixed because no one really understood how to fix it anyways.  Now my JTV69 is acting up.  So yes, I'm batting 100% on 2 data points.

[clay-man]

Yeah guys, please don't crap on a guy just because they're might be some legit frustration with their product.

I'd be upset too if I had a guitar that is broken and had no way of fixing it.

[Mr_Arkadin]

I guess the responses are due to a slight weariness of 'forum suicides' (not just here, happens everywhere). A common scenario: someone's first post on a forum is to tell everyone they're off, and often never post again. Not very constructive, yet everyone else is supposed to be? It's a two-way street.

 

However having said that the OP does bring up a genuine concern, and I feel a bit embarrassed to say I didn't even know the Rugby office had closed, which is indeed sad for lots of reasons.

 

I hope that the service centre Tony posted may go some way to help the concerns. I would phone them if I was the OP to see how they feel about repairing JTVs and 700s as a reassurance.

[clay-man]

I guess the responses are due to a slight weariness of 'forum suicides' (not just here, happens everywhere). A common scenario: someone's first post on a forum is to tell everyone they're off, and often never post again. Not very constructive, yet everyone else is supposed to be? It's a two-way street.

 

However having said that the OP does bring up a genuine concern, and I feel a bit embarrassed to say I didn't even know the Rugby office had closed, which is indeed sad for lots of reasons.

 

I hope that the service centre Tony posted may go some way to help the concerns. I would phone them if I was the OP to see how they feel about repairing JTVs and 700s as a reassurance.

 

I agree. Kind of pointless to sign up just to say you're done with the products, but again, this guy could be helped, and thankfully Tony did, though we don't know if this guy will even view or post these forums again.

 

It's just it kinda sounds like people are making light of someone having busted gear, and that's not cool. Yes it's just gear, but it's also a THOUSAND dollar guitar. I would never, want to waste 1k on something new that was going to break after a short while.

[Charlie_Watt]

I would have a little sympathy if he had asked for help rather than just ranting about lack of  support.

[Guitarkyller]

I would have a little sympathy if he had asked for help rather than just ranting about lack of  support

I sure don't see any ranting in the OP's post. More like a long time faithful customer who really likes L6 gear, shucks they've had several variax's,used them all the time as their main guitar, and is disappointed that the support has left the country that they live in. I would like to read the letters that you'd write if you woke up tomorrow and found out your closest "ME & ED's" repair shop was in New Zealand now.

Also take time to remember that people from lots of foreign countries, different age groups, religious backgrounds, and different genders are forum members also and their posts and concerns are as valid here as yours are. I'm not even sure that the OP is a HE ?

It's like Momma said, "Say something nice or constructive, or don't say anything at all". I've found that still works, even today.

 

                                                                          Respect to All,

 

                                                                                Shawn

[cruisinon2]

Well at least we all have you to set us straight. Whatever would we do otherwise?

[Topaz]

I sympathize.  If manufacturers are going to stuff complicated computer electronics in $1,000+ guitars (13pin midi guitars are in this group too) people need to know such instruments are guaranteed to perform in those capacities for a veeeeeeerrrry long time. 

 

Personally I wouldn't buy variax's or midi guitars for just as a normal functioning electric guitar.... there are tons of other guitars that I'd like much better to spend money on. IOW, if a Variax stops doing variaxing, it's bloody pointless

[cruisinon2]

I sympathize. If manufacturers are going to stuff complicated computer electronics in $1,000+ guitars (13pin midi guitars are in this group too) people need to know such instruments are guaranteed to perform in those capacities for a veeeeeeerrrry long time.

 

Personally I wouldn't buy variax's or midi guitars for just as a normal functioning electric guitar.... there are tons of other guitars that I'd like much better to spend money on. IOW, if a Variax stops doing variaxing, it's bloody pointless

 

Nothing wrong with spending your money on whatever is gonna make you happy, but refusing to buy stuff because you're afraid that it might break one day, is gonna make it hard to buy anything. What guarantee do you have that anything electronic is going to last for a "very long time"? All consumer electronics have a finite lifespan...some comically short. Seems to get shorter and shorter as the years go by..."they don't make 'em like they used to", as it were.

 

And yes, a traditional electric guitar should last you effectively forever (with minimal maintenance), but that's because it's a much simpler animal. But it also can't do what a Variax can. The more complicated something gets, the more things might go wrong...but if we gave up on everything complicated, progress would grind to a halt.

 

If the "brains" your JTV crap out at some point, it can usually be fixed...and if not, it's still a functional guitar with mag pickups. It's not like it turns into a paperweight if the modelling quits. Just my 2 cents.

[clay-man]

Nothing wrong with spending your money on whatever is gonna make you happy, but refusing to buy stuff because you're afraid that it might break one day, is gonna make it hard to buy anything. What guarantee do you have that anything electronic is going to last for a "very long time"? All consumer electronics have a finite lifespan...some comically short. Seems to get shorter and shorter as the years go by..."they don't make 'em like they used to", as it were.

 

And yes, a traditional electric guitar should last you effectively forever (with minimal maintenance), but that's because it's a much simpler animal. But it also can't do what a Variax can. The more complicated something gets, the more things might go wrong...but if we gave up on everything complicated, progress would grind to a halt.

 

If the "brains" your JTV crap out at some point, it can usually be fixed...and if not, it's still a functional guitar with mag pickups. It's not like it turns into a paperweight if the modelling quits. Just my 2 cents.

 

Well, the problem is quality control. It's not just Line 6, but the entire consumer product world. It could be the components that Line 6 uses, like you said, just "not made like they used to make them".

 

The thing is, spending 1k on something new you'll have for only a few years is asinine and ridiculous. 

If it can't last that long, then it shouldn't cost that much.

[Topaz]

The thing is, spending 1k on something new you'll have for only a few years is asinine and ridiculous. 

 

Precisely

[Topaz]

If the "brains" your JTV crap out at some point, it can usually be fixed...and if not, it's still a functional guitar with mag pickups. It's not like it turns into a paperweight if the modelling quits. Just my 2 cents.

 

Whenever I've bought some electronic device for a hundred bucks and the sales person wants to hit me up for a $50 extended warranty I tell them that for a hundred bucks, if I got even a years good use out of it, it paid for itself.

 

OTOH, if I'm spending thousands or tens of thousands on an electronic and/or mechanical device, it better be backed up guaranteed warranty fixed for a good long time.

[cruisinon2]

Well, the problem is quality control. It's not just Line 6, but the entire consumer product world. It could be the components that Line 6 uses, like you said, just "not made like they used to make them".

 

The thing is, spending 1k on something new you'll have for only a few years is asinine and ridiculous.

If it can't last that long, then it shouldn't cost that much.

 

Then why did you buy one? You were here reading all about the weird problems that some JTVS have, long before you bought one. If you were so convinced that the quality control was crap, why fork over $1K?

 

Plenty of users have had Variax guitars for years on end. How many still have and use the earlier generations?

 

What's asinine and ridiculous is assuming that NONE of them last more than a year or two because of problems you read about here at B1tchaboutmygear.com.

 

Even issues that you have had personally can't be used to extrapolate failure rates for an entire product line. No one here will ever know what the actual failure rates are. Every user forum, for every product imaginable, is overflowing with unhappy users of products that have failed. Does that mean there's nothing anywhere worth purchasing? I had problems with my L2T...twice...but that isn't justification for proclaiming the entire Stagesource concept as flawed, unworkable, and not worth the money. There are always more units that work just fine than those that don't. But you'll never hear from most of those people.

 

I got a bum unit, luck of the draw. It took a little longer than I would have liked to get it fixed, but it was taken care of, and L6 paid the shipping. That's as good as its ever gonna get.

[clay-man]

Then why did you buy one? You were here reading all about the weird problems that some JTVS have, long before you bought one. If you were so convinced that the quality control was crap, why fork over $1K?

 

Plenty of users have had Variax guitars for years on end. How many still have and use the earlier generations?

 

What's asinine and ridiculous is assuming that NONE of them last more than a year or two because of problems you read about here at B1tchaboutmygear.com.

 

Even issues that you have had personally can't be used to extrapolate failure rates for an entire product line. No one here will ever know what the actual failure rates are. Every user forum, for every product imaginable, is overflowing with unhappy users of products that have failed. Does that mean there's nothing anywhere worth purchasing? I had problems with my L2T...twice...but that isn't justification for proclaiming the entire Stagesource concept as flawed, unworkable, and not worth the money. There are always more units that work just fine than those that don't. But you'll never hear from most of those people.

 

I got a bum unit, luck of the draw. It took a little longer than I would have liked to get it fixed, but it was taken care of, and L6 paid the shipping. That's as good as its ever gonna get.

 

Because I never said the failure rate was high, it should just be virtually non existent with this type of product.

 

Why buy a car when you'll have to repair it later on? Why get a computer when it'll get dusty inside and slow down the hardware overtime? 

[cruisinon2]

Because I never said the failure rate was high, it should just be virtually non existent with this type of product.

 

Why buy a car when you'll have to repair it later on? Why get a computer when it'll get dusty inside and slow down the hardware overtime?

Sorry, but none of this makes any sense. Now you're just back-pedaling. One minute the quality control is seriously suspect, and the next you never said the failure rate was unacceptable. Make up your mind.

 

As for the car and the computer...that's exactly what I've been saying all along, so why you would consider that a rebuttal, I have no idea. Thank you for reinforcing my point. Nothing lasts forever. You buy the things that suit your needs, fully cognicent of the fact that they will eventually $#!& the bed. Some things last longer than others.

 

Your assertion that this type of product...or just about anything else for that matter...should have a near nonexistent failure rate is wildly unrealistic, and doesn't exist with any product I've ever seen or purchased. Having that kind of expectation is gonna keep you in a chronic state of disappointment. Stuff breaks. Life is rough.

[clay-man]

Sorry, but none of this makes any sense. Now you're just back-pedaling. One minute the quality control is seriously suspect, and the next you never said the failure rate was unacceptable. Make up your mind.

 

As for the car and the computer...that's exactly what I've been saying all along, so why you would consider that a rebuttal, I have no idea. Thank you for reinforcing my point. Nothing lasts forever. You buy the things that suit your needs, fully cognicent of the fact that they will eventually $#!& the bed. Some things last longer than others.

 

Your assertion that this type of product...or just about anything else for that matter...should have a near nonexistent failure rate is wildly unrealistic, and doesn't exist with any product I've ever seen or purchased. Having that kind of expectation is gonna keep you in a chronic state of disappointment. Stuff breaks. Life is rough.

 

Yes it does? I just said that having a guitar failing so soon is ridiculous and that the failure rate should be minimum, virtually non existent. Just because the failure rate may not be high, doesn't mean it's also not low enough than it could be.

 

I'm saying the guitar should have the same failure rate as any good high end computer products should. 

 

I don't hear much about other products crapping the bed, but maybe that's because I'm on these forums?

 

Either way, there's still a lot of Quality Control issues that could EASILY be addressed and fixed, and they're not.

[cruisinon2]

Yes it does? I just said that having a guitar failing so soon is ridiculous and that the failure rate should be minimum, virtually non existent. Just because the failure rate may not be high, doesn't mean it's also not low enough than it could be.

 

***Not high, but not low enough? Well since no one but L6 knows what the rate actually is, this is just an assumption. Everything on earth could be improved...it's the easiest thing in the world to say. A politician's statement. We can do better! Vote for me! Maybe the failure rate is less than 1%...there's no way to know unless you get a job at L6.***

 

I'm saying the guitar should have the same failure rate as any good high end computer products should.

 

***This should, that should. And what might the failure rate for high end computer products be? If you know, by all means share...But since we have no idea how many JTVs have failed, a meaningful comparison isn't forthcoming anyway.***

 

I don't hear much about other products crapping the bed, but maybe that's because I'm on these forums?

 

***Pick ANY product you want, and proceed to its user forum. You will find the exact same degree of righteous indignation, proclamations about a lack of quality control, and my personal favorite, the "digital martyrdom" of vowing to never purchase X or Y from Company Z ever again. It's as predictable as tomorrow's sunrise. Hell hath no fury like an unsatisfied customer.***

 

 

[clay-man]

 

Yes it does? I just said that having a guitar failing so soon is ridiculous and that the failure rate should be minimum, virtually non existent. Just because the failure rate may not be high, doesn't mean it's also not low enough than it could be.

 

***Not high, but not low enough? Well since no one but L6 knows what the rate actually is, this is just an assumption. Everything on earth could be improved...it's the easiest thing in the world to say. A politician's statement. We can do better! Vote for me! Maybe the failure rate is less than 1%...there's no way to know unless you get a job at L6.***

 

I'm saying the guitar should have the same failure rate as any good high end computer products should.

 

***This should, that should. And what might the failure rate for high end computer products be? If you know, by all means share...But since we have no idea how many JTVs have committed suicide, a meaningful comparison isn't forthcoming anyway.***

 

I don't hear much about other products crapping the bed, but maybe that's because I'm on these forums?

 

***Pick ANY product you want, and proceed to its user forum. You will find the exact same degree of righteous indignation, proclamations about a lack of quality control, and my personal favorite, the "digital martyrdom" of vowing to never purchase X or Y from Company Z ever again. It's as predictable as tomorrow's sunrise. Hell hath no fury like an unsatisfied customer.***

 

 

 

That doesn't mean that problems like the piezos sounding off, the knob coming off, and string resonance issues can't be fixed. These are so easy to resolve and yet they don't do Quality Control over it?

 

You realize I'm not trying to bash Line 6, I'm saying they should fix what they can obviously fix to lower the failure rate, and a lot of them are from that piezo issue.

[arislaf]

Geez Cruini, since when you become such a fanboy??

 

Did you had an old gen. Variax? The cheapest model (300) was better constructed than the jtv 69.. No knobs were loose or falling down. no strings go to electronic, no strings fall from the fretboard... Many things were better constructed... What tend to fail most was rge piezo, that JTV has improve (little). Regarding my 300 or 700, both are in perfect working condition and no problems until now (10 years of my 700). 

 

Bought the 69 and all mishaps happened... I am here from 2007 (with different name) and I see that construction complains are more often than what was for the old Variaxes.

 

Clay is trying to explain the lack of quality control (that is true) , and in the end, his voice and people that complain like him are the one that make the product to improve... And since he bought this product, he has every right to complain about it if something is wrong.

 

Peace.