Helix hardware upgrade coming soon?

[hpataca]

Hello everyone,

 

Is there any information about the launch of an hardware upgrade to the Helix that will instantly lower the commercial value of the unit, in the same way as it happened to my POD HD?

I have been delaying the purchase of the Helix because I fear that Line6 will use the same business model as before.

Thanks.

 

[silverhead]

It wasn't a business model. The processor chip they used in the HD500 suddenly became unavailable. So they sourced a new (faster, of course) processor and launched the HD500X model.

 

There are no plans to upgrade Helix hardware.

[spikey]

Things change. Ask my Vetta combo...  ;)

[gtrman100]

The product is only 6 months old... do you consider music equipment an investment?

[phil_m]

Hello everyone,

 

Is there any information about the launch of an hardware upgrade to the Helix that will instantly lower the commercial value of the unit, in the same way as it happened to my POD HD?

I have been delaying the purchase of the Helix because I fear that Line6 will use the same business model as before.

Thanks.

Helix is still brand new, practically speaking. If you're worried about this with Helix, I don't see how you could ever buy any tech-driven musical equipment.

[hpataca]

Due to a severe case of GAS from which I have been recovering, I have bought a lot of musical equipment over the years. Way too much.

But there was only this one time when I bought a HD Pro and then the manufacturer changed the DSP chip slightly, and called it a new product. Maybe I am wrong in feeling a bit disappointed with this... but I am!

Anyway, my post obviously had a bit of provocation in there and for that, I do apologize.

If there are no known immediate plans for an upgraded version of the Helix... I am now just deciding "floor" or "rack".  ;)

 

Thanks & Regards.

[fastnloud]

Please do not go the way of fractal on this and come out with "new helix 2.0" and charge customers. keep this unit and upgrade fx and amp/cab sims and NOT every 3 months we need this unit to show its worth. if you can't keep up with the other units like kemper and ax8  with fx upgrades i will again loose money on another line 6 product. there is no need for line 6 to sit back while loyal customers are shelling out fat stacks for helix so lets go line 6, start giving us updates, tweek whats there and make this thing best in class.

[fastnloud]

and of course..its a 1500 dollar musical investment what else would you call it? your customers are investing in the hope that you guys push this unit to the max and it is not there yet.

[Charlie_Watt]

First off - why are you disappointed if Line6 comes out with an improved version  like they did with the 500x?  New cars come out every year and that doesn't keep people from buying one when they want to.  Electronics have advanced rapidly with more horsepower for less $$ every year.  The old cars and old Line6 products still work after a new model is introduced.  Why worry about what the used value is.  If you go to sell any piece of electronic equipment, you will only reclaim a fraction of what you paid for it.

[spikey]

Please do not go the way of fractal on this and come out with "new helix 2.0" and charge customers. keep this unit and upgrade fx and amp/cab sims and NOT every 3 months we need this unit to show its worth. if you can't keep up with the other units like kemper and ax8  with fx upgrades i will again loose money on another line 6 product. there is no need for line 6 to sit back while loyal customers are shelling out fat stacks for helix so lets go line 6, start giving us updates, tweek whats there and make this thing best in class.

 

To be fair, Fractal went from the Ultra to the Axe FX II, and from one processor to 2 processors, and it took years, not 3 months for the new unit to become available. Id hate to be your tire guy...

[silverhead]

and of course..its a 1500 dollar musical investment what else would you call it? your customers are investing in the hope that you guys push this unit to the max and it is not there yet.

I would call it an expense, not an investment. It's market value will certainly decrease over time, not increase. As a customer, I am buying it (and any other depreciating product) for what it can do today - not what it might do at some future time.

 

If I buy it for $1,500 today I do not expect to be able to sell it for more later. Based on Line 6 history I do expect that it will receive periodic updates and improvements for at least a few years. But I don't expect to be able to dictate their content or timing. And I expect it to be less frequent than Fractal - always has been.

[HonestOpinion]

After many years of buying digital equipment I have come to realize that it almost always decreases in value. The new digital stuff just tends to be better. Only some good tube amps, analog effects, and guitars increase in value. Line6 is extremely innovative when it comes to digital products. As such, I always see the challenge for them being to support current and past products while continuing to bring new products to market. I admit to getting a bit concerned when I see new products immediately hitting the market after the Helix. I don't want to see development efforts on the Helix getting too diluted. The more money I spend on a product the more years I want to get out of it before support and development are end of life'd. I definitely don't want to see a better version of the Helix within two years of initial release, not at this price. At the same time I realize I can't and don't want to stop progress. Recognizing the fact that Line6 will have new and improved products in the pipeline that will inevitably divert resources I definitely encourage as rapid a pace as possible on Helix firmware updates, improvements, and additions, not because I am impatient but because I realize that their commitment, resources, and focus are bound to shift to new products. Even if they want to keep working on it, most or all of the developers and product managers who are completely dedicated to the Helix right now will eventually be instructed by the corporate higher ups to shift their efforts to new profit centers/products. That is just the way things work.

[PeterHamm]

After many years of buying digital equipment I have come to realize that it almost always decreases in value. 

 

Fixed it for ya.

 

This is not an investment. It is an expense.

 

I promise you that if the chip is discontinued in 3 years and they find another one that will work better, that L6 will work to bring out a unit that will do the same thing with more power for the same money if they can. 

 

But future plans? No, they aren't going to tell you that.

[HonestOpinion]

Fixed it for ya.

 

This is not an investment. It is an expense.

 

I promise you that if the chip is discontinued in 3 years and they find another one that will work better, that L6 will work to bring out a unit that will do the same thing with more power for the same money if they can.

 

But future plans? No, they aren't going to tell you that.

LOL, I try to avoid using absolutes like "always" and "all" where they don't apply. There so often turns out to be some exception I did not think of. The reason I modified this to "almost always" is that there are some examples of, perhaps not digital but its older uncle, solid state equipment, like the old Tom Scholz SR&D Rockman stuff actually gaining value over the years. One of the few exceptions to analog equipment I can think of that has gained value. There may be one or two pieces of digital equipment that have gained in value (although I can't think of one) . Although you are correct when you say digital is not an investment in the conventional sense, destined to sell for more than the purchase price, I do believe it can be an "investment" if it saves your back, makes you money at gigs, and brings you joy. But overall, your statement is correct.

 

Who said anything about knowing their future plans, I never requested that? The only thing I can safely say is that they have them and development resources will shift to them at some point.

[willjrock]

First off - why are you disappointed if Line6 comes out with an improved version  like they did with the 500x?  New cars come out every year and that doesn't keep people from buying one when they want to.  Electronics have advanced rapidly with more horsepower for less $$ every year.  The old cars and old Line6 products still work after a new model is introduced.  Why worry about what the used value is.  If you go to sell any piece of electronic equipment, you will only reclaim a fraction of what you paid for it.

Because for some people $1500 is a big investment...Maybe "last amp ever" type investment. Nobody wants to spend that kind of money and have somebody telling them "no, this is what you need"  or have something else come out a year down the road, if they could have just waited and got X.  Especially when the only thing that really needs updated in the Helix, is the software.

 

I would be one thing if companies would say, "listen theres a lot of room for improvement here, so you might wanna wait".... but thats not how it works as we all know..............and lets face it how many guys have had a chance to use all of these amps to know how close they are or whatever?

 

They claim that the modeling is a 1:1 spot on recreation and then a year or two later its better, and now you need X product if you really want great guitar sounds.

 

Im guessing, but i think thats where some of his "frustration" may lie.  

 

Would you be annoyed if you bought the best product line 6 had to offer and then find out the next day that they come out with something even better? I think you would be.

[gunpointmetal]

When you buy tech-based anything, you're already planning on it being "obsolete" at some point in the (probably) near future. Helix is a sound processing computer, so, like a laptop/tablet/desktop, there will be better/faster/newer long before the thing you bought is no longer useful. If you're looking to buy something that will maintain value, buy a super high-end tube amp and keep it spotless. If you want a sick guitar processor for less than a Kemper or AFX Ultra, the Helix is it. But these kinds of items (even amps) are limited-life items if you're using them live.

[PeterHamm]

Because for some people $1500 is a big investment...Maybe "last amp ever" type investment. Nobody wants to spend that kind of money and have somebody telling them "no, this is what you need"  or have something else come out a year down the road, if they could have just waited and got X.  Especially when the only thing that really needs updated in the Helix, is the software.

 

I would be one thing if companies would say, "listen theres a lot of room for improvement here, so you might wanna wait".... but thats not how it works as we all know..............and lets face it how many guys have had a chance to use all of these amps to know how close they are or whatever?

 

They claim that the modeling is a 1:1 spot on recreation and then a year or two later its better, and now you need X product if you really want great guitar sounds.

 

Im guessing, but i think thats where some of his "frustration" may lie.  

 

Would you be annoyed if you bought the best product line 6 had to offer and then find out the next day that they come out with something even better? I think you would be.

 

Look, they won't/can't tell you what they are developing for the future.

 

Always buy a piece of musical gear for what it can do for you as is, today. Not for what it might do in the future. And you can wait if you want to for "the next big thing"... that's fine, some of us need to make music today. Need the best tool for the job today.

I wasn't upset when the HD 500 X came out, because I used my HD 500 for real work (for which I get paid) making music. I was delighted that when they did future upgrades, my HD 500 was still included.

 

None of this is an investment. It's an expense. Even if you are a pro. An investment, by definition, grows in value. Gear doesn't unless it's vintage guitars, and that's even iffy.

[phil_m]

Because for some people $1500 is a big investment...Maybe "last amp ever" type investment. Nobody wants to spend that kind of money and have somebody telling them "no, this is what you need"  or have something else come out a year down the road, if they could have just waited and got X.  Especially when the only thing that really needs updated in the Helix, is the software.

 

I would be one thing if companies would say, "listen theres a lot of room for improvement here, so you might wanna wait".... but thats not how it works as we all know..............and lets face it how many guys have had a chance to use all of these amps to know how close they are or whatever?

 

They claim that the modeling is a 1:1 spot on recreation and then a year or two later its better, and now you need X product if you really want great guitar sounds.

 

Im guessing, but i think thats where some of his "frustration" may lie.  

 

Would you be annoyed if you bought the best product line 6 had to offer and then find out the next day that they come out with something even better? I think you would be.

 

I don't know, it seems people are will to spend that sort of money on laptops and other tech items knowing full well that within 6 months the hardware will be superseded by the next thing in six months to a year, sometimes less. Thankfully, the upgrade cycle on audio equipment like this seems to be much longer than with personal computers, but it does still exist.

 

I mean, I know Line 6 is planning to support Helix for a good while, and I don't expect the hardware platform to change for quite a long time. I'm sure a lot of it depends on how well it continues to be received in the market. It's easier to support something if you still have customers buying it. Adding new features is also a way to attract new customers to an existing product. So, personally, I don't think it's worth losing sleep over, especially when the Helix itself has really only been available for six months at this point. And even saying it's been available is an understatement. The demand has been such that Line 6 can't make them fast enough. With that being the case there's certainly isn't any inventive to release some bigger and better right away.

[spikey]

I want a money back guarantee on EVERYTHING, because it costs MONEY and it might get OLD like spikey did WAAAAHHHHHH !!!  ;)   :P

[cornerstonetom]

I wish the Helix had a smartphone option. I spend WAY too much money for time, data and obsolescence.

 

As for the Helix itself? Why wouldn't one expect it to decrease in value, only to be replaced by something better, faster and more addictive?

[MelThorpe]

I remember thinking the same thing with the "X" versions came out about a year and half after I bought my HD Pro, then I found out about the DSP chips. 

 

The problem you face in a situation like that is either you keep making the same version with the new chips and then try to discern version differences by cryptic serial numbers, etc, or you give it a new model number. Giving it a new model number makes it easier for the manufacturer from a support and customer service perspective to know exactly what unit a customer is talking about. It also helps the customer identify the product with the new chips.

 

And they did go 3 years before introducing the X series. Unfortunately some people bought the HD series a few month before the X series came out and they may feel ripped off, but that's how product cycles go. Like buying your iPhone 3 months before the new one comes out. It's just part of the cycle. There is no way to time it perfectly.

[jar1zx]

I'm beginning to think people post stuff like this just to lollipop off the line 6 fans.

 

Op the helix has been out 6 months with more units catching up demand in the last few months. So it's still new, relax.

 

If you want an investment that will yield you money.... Go out and buy a nice low numbers tube amp and keep it in pristine shape for 20 years. In 20 years this helix or any of its competitors products will be worth pennies on the dollar.

[jar1zx]

But if your asking will the helix last you 5 years?

Yes it should as lots of people are running the hd500 and earlier line 6 products and are very happy with them.

 

I still kinda like the vetta.

[HonestOpinion]

But if your asking will the helix last you 5 years?

Yes it should as lots of people are running the hd500 and earlier line 6 products and are very happy with them.

 

I still kinda like the vetta.

 

I own and still like the Vetta as well, and what stands out in my memory is it was the first time I remember owning a guitar oriented product that actually got better after I bought it.  I remember my total surprise and gratitude when for the first time in my guitar equipment owning career, Line6 issued a free update that added bugfixes and more models and effects.  To me, Line6 was the progenitor and dominating force in adding value (not resale value) to guitar equipment after the initial purchase.  This has now become a standard for other manufacturers and in many ways I grant the credit to Line6 for pioneering it.  That is why I encourage and hope they will continue the trend that arguably they started, or at the least were hugely influential in, with timely and valuable upgrades and additions to the Helix before their attention turns to the next latest and greatest toy.

[ricksteruk]

I've bought my Helix based on what it can do today not might do in the future.  it is a great unit.

 

However I fully expect bug fixes / firmware upgrades for things like the editor etc.

 

I also expect Line 6 will deal with issues that may arise in the next year or two such as the dreaded Mac OS update or USB  issues... but as with any product eventually it will not be feasible for Line 6 to support it any more.

 

Having said that I will be VERY happy if a scene mode comes out, and more fx blocks and amps would definitely be fun.

[spikey]

Not a thing wrong with expecting that rick. I just don't expect them to release a model pack with several dozen new amps for nothing (and neither should anyone else). If that happens, great. I just don't to its owed to us is all.

[willjrock]

 

None of this is an investment. It's an expense. Even if you are a pro. An investment, by definition, grows in value. Gear doesn't unless it's vintage guitars, and that's even iffy.

Youre arguing semantics. The bottom line is that if a company is going to release a new chip 3 months down the road, or replace a $1500 product a year down the road, they need to make that abundantly clear to people, otherwise theyre just trying to push theyre old stock off on to people. They knew it was on its way......

 

How would you feel if you bought a variax and a week later they come out with another that sounds way better,  plays way better, looks way better?  I know i wouldnt be too overjoyed. Id tend to think "man if idve known that, i would have just waited."

.

[spikey]

 

How would you feel if you bought a variax and a week later they come out with another that sounds way better,  plays way better, looks way better?  I know i wouldnt be too overjoyed. Id tend to think "man if idve known that, i would have just waited."

 

 

Most places would let you return it a week later. As far as having new models, every company that makes a profit has to do this or they don't exist. Buy what you want, and don't worry what might be old next year (because it will be).

[gkinder]

Youre arguing semantics. The bottom line is that if a company is going to release a new chip 3 months down the road, or replace a $1500 product a year down the road, they need to make that abundantly clear to people, otherwise theyre just trying to push theyre old stock off on to people. They knew it was on its way......

 

How would you feel if you bought a variax and a week later they come out with another that sounds way better,  plays way better, looks way better?  I know i wouldnt be too overjoyed. Id tend to think "man if idve known that, i would have just waited."

.

 

You probably should never buy another product as long as you live, especially one involving electronics...

[PeterHamm]

You probably should never buy another product as long as you live, especially one involving electronics...

beat me to that punch.

[willjrock]

beat me to that punch

Make sure you buddy up to him since you have no real argument of your own...or we could always go back to arguing the definition of an investment lol.

[HonestOpinion]

I agree that there is no way you can anticipate these days when a new product is going to come down the pipeline. I buy these days with the full realization that the next version might come out on day 31 of my 30 day return period. However, there is no doubt that this does suck for the consumer. And, with the pace of technology and development increasing steadily, this is only going to get worse, not better. "Just in time" (JIT) manufacturing may somewhat help alleviate some of this but right now it is not in the interest of corporate profits to inform the consumer of their company's product cycle and unless the consumer exerts enough pressure to change what has become standard industry practice, many purchasers will continue to get zapped at the end of life of a product, as the new one comes out scant days or months after their return period has expired. That is definitely a fact of life right now and perhaps for the foreseeable future. Robert Anton Wilson (great sci-fi writer, physicist and psychologist) wrote about this phenomenon -- statisticians, mathematicians and the like tracked the rate of new inventions, patents, etc. and we are now doubling in frequency at an incredible rate, and that rate is ever increasing. With the ability to ever more rapidly process and access massive amounts of data, and more and more interconnected people on the planet, it gets harder and harder to have a new idea that someone else does not come up with shortly after. This leads to more rapid production and product release.

 

Some companies like some of the phone service providers have come up with new models like "Apple for Life" where you can trade in your old phone each time a new one comes out. This service comes with a fee but does prevent a total or almost total loss on the old hardware and enables the consumer to always have the latest product, so we are seeing new sales models emerge in this increasingly shorter cycle of innovation. It is not unthinkable to imagine a sales model like this eventually being offered in the music technology world for companies with short product cycles. Just from an environmental perspective I would love to see an alternate model where some of this hardware could be retrofitted (for a fee), extending its life, enhancing its function, and sparing the landfills.

 

So, here we sit in a rapidly changing consumer landscape, sometimes taking the hit when we purchase near the ever shortening end of a product's shelf life. For right now I think the best you can do is enjoy what you have and make the most of it. For innovative companies like Line6 where we know there is going to be something new in short order in the pipeline, all we can do is hope they will support their customers by improving their products after release for a "reasonable" amount of time, whatever that is. That period of time should probably be longer for their more expensive products. There are other companies like Roland/Boss for instance with a different sales/development model. They usually have much longer sales cycles, the products they release tend not to be upgraded for years at a time and when they are released they tend to be bullet proof, last for 25 years without repair, are relatively bug free, do NOT have a Boss written editor, are feature rich, but... you can expect little to no improvement after release. This is not the Line6 model. Their products tend to come to market in quick succession and are improved during the sales cycle(even if years have gone into their development like the Helix), so the expectations of a Line6 product should be, and are different, than for instance a Boss product. I go into a purchase knowing that sometimes I am not going to time it ideally. For right now, I understand the disappointment of consumers who get caught up at the end of a sales cycle and I look for new sales models, ongoing support and development, and responsible corporate ethics to mitigate the pain of being the guy who ends up with yesterday's technology at today's price.

[roscoe5]

Sorry if I missed something in a previous post, but consider that Helix will probably still be a great computer and mobile device interface and controller long after its hardware modelling capabilities become obsolete. It is a much better form factor for this than Kemper, Fractal, etc. To me this means a 5+ year life cycle. I actually had this in mind when I purchased Helix, and it has more than reinforced this value to me even with current generation Amplitube.

 

I personally have no issue plugging an iPad 1000 or advanced tablet PC into this in 5 years and continue to use it.

 

Computer and mobile hardware continues to improve and is cheaper to upgrade or replace than these hardware modelling units.

 

Computer and mobile modelling and stability is really almost on par with hardware now. In 2-3 years computer/mobile may surpass hardware modellers. A device that integrates with these platforms (like Helix) will prove it's worth.

 

Who knows, but it would make sense to me to have Line 6 release next gen models on those platforms in the future and tightly integrate legacy Helix, as well as any new products. Maybe a few years down the road even give registered Helix owners a break on future computer/mobile platform-based model packs.

[HonestOpinion]

Sorry if I missed something in a previous post, but consider that Helix will probably still be a great computer and mobile device interface and controller long after its hardware modelling capabilities become obsolete. It is a much better form factor for this than Kemper, Fractal, etc. To me this means a 5+ year life cycle. I actually had this in mind when I purchased Helix, and it has more than reinforced this value to me even with current generation Amplitube.

 

I personally have no issue plugging an iPad 1000 or advanced tablet PC into this in 5 years and continue to use it.

 

Computer and mobile hardware continues to improve and is cheaper to upgrade or replace than these hardware modelling units.

 

Computer and mobile modelling and stability is really almost in par with hardware now. In 2-3 years computer/mobile surpass hardware modellers. A device that integrates with these platforms (like Helix) will prove it's worth.

 

Who knows, but it would make sense to me to have Line 6 release next gen models on those platforms in the future and tightly integrate legacy Helix, as well as any new products. Maybe a few years down the road even give registered Helix owners a break on future computer/mobile platform-based model packs.

 

I totally agree with your vision of where guitar processing is heading although I don't think the Helix will end up being that controller although its already not inconsiderable capacities in that regard may well extend its usable life as you pointed out. We are already seeing devices designed this way from the ground up (the Zoom C5 1.t was an immature example of this). The future of these units may well be providing the physical interface to DAWs and processing that reside solely on PC's and tablets or perhaps at first downloading parts of their programming for latency reasons to the physical interface but most of the heavy lifting will eventually be done on the tablet/pc with the switching handled by a physical device that does nothing but essentially manipulate plugins and applications. Akin to the model of the separate controller and Helix but all you will require will be the controller for switching and I/O, and your PC or tablet. Tablets processing will still have to get a lot faster and more powerful as well as accelerating the communication between the tablet and the controller before this can replace something like the Helix for live use. Especially if the tablet has to pass the signal back to the controller for output (I/O located on the controller).

[amsdenj]

Computers have already caught up to and perhaps surpassed what dedicated hardware controllers like Helix can do. For example, a MacBook Pro running MainStage or even using Logic Pro X as a digital mixer can pretty much run a whole band with S-Gear plugins for multiple guitar players, bass amp, all the effects you'd ever want, software instruments, etc. However, there's a few issues with this approach:

1. The software is getting better, but still isn't that reliable, especially regarding sleep/wake with audio/MIDI devices
2. The UI isn't that convenient for live use - although Logic Remote on an iPad helps
3. The connections aren't gig hardened
4. S-Gear is missing front of the amp effects, and the BIAS and Amplitube effects don't quite match S-Gear in tone quality to my ears anyway. We're hoping Mike Scuffham is working on this.
5. You still have to have a MIDI controller
6. Its a complicated thing to set up and maintain (but I kind of like that part)

I had good luck integrating my HD500X into this hybrid guitar modeler/computer setup, mostly because of the additional footswitches I could get by using the Looper as a footswitch mode switch. But the front of the amp effects in the HD500X were't that great, so this wasn't an ideal solution either.

 

Helix has much better front of the amp effects, and better audio and MIDI I/O. But as of yet, it doesn't send any MIDI messages in Looper mode - so that cuts the number of available footswitches in half compared to the HD500X.

 

I'd like to see a continuation of this hybrid/integrated mode where the foot pedal on the floor focuses on a local, hi-resolution touch interface, with lots of I/O capability and wireless audio, MIDI, and display back to something like a Mac Mini computer. The display should be a general purpose interface to the computer, something that might leverage the continuing evolution of OS X and iOS to unify the interfaces and apps. The challenge will be getting this to be simple enough that it just turns on and runs reliably without the flexibility making it impossible for most people to use it. Then there's the expense...

 

I have used a computer based setup at a few live gigs. When it works, its great. But Helix is much simpler, easier to setup, more reliable, and isn't nearly as distracting. Since Helix, I only use the computer setup for recording, never live anymore.

[electricfactory]

I would call it an expense, not an investment. It's market value will certainly decrease over time, not increase. As a customer, I am buying it (and any other depreciating product) for what it can do today - not what it might do at some future time.

 

If I buy it for $1,500 today I do not expect to be able to sell it for more later. Based on Line 6 history I do expect that it will receive periodic updates and improvements for at least a few years. But I don't expect to be able to dictate their content or timing. And I expect it to be less frequent than Fractal - always has been.

I agree with this. Tech music gear isn't vintage guitars. Tech gear by definition is always in a state of flux, with improved versions replacing their outdated predecessors. I expect Line 6 will make upgrades periodically until the big day finally comes- HELIX 3D HD ! I've heard rumblings..

[klangmaler]

Musical gear by definition is always in flux. Guitars are from the last millennium...

 

 

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/vulcan-harp-construction-plans-sheet-1.jpg

[fastnloud]

the "investment" is a customer spending 1500 bucks on helix and "investing" in line6. its NOT a investment in the product itself.the only thing i have found worth investing in for value later down the road is guitars and amps and a few analog fx.

 

The customer expects a company like line6 to keep up with its peers such as fractal and kemper with frequent upgrades, bug fixes, and customer support.so far the upgrading has failed..imo 

 

I also own a axe fx product and not a fan of its owner but I get tons of upgrades even if its a small improvement here and there.I also get answers from the owner on the forums. so far with my helix ,not much. seems my " investment" into line6 has not paid off like the fractal product but it is early and time will tell .right now its the same ol same ol support from L6.

 

 

if after a year we are still talking about this, helix will be all over flea bay for cheap and companies like fractal will continue to prosper.  The ball is in line6's court, I have already done my part "investing" in the company, posting my wishes and complaints on the forum, and contacting support.

[silverhead]

...

 

The customer expects a company like line6 to keep up with its peers such as fractal and kemper with frequent upgrades, bug fixes, and customer support.so far the upgrading has failed..imo 

 

...

 

I think it depends in part on how you are measuring 'peers'. In terms of sound quality I think Helix is a peer. In terms of price it is not. Helix costs significantly less than Fractal or Kemper. Perhaps lower revenue is reflected in the relative frequency of updates.

[phil_m]

the "investment" is a customer spending 1500 bucks on helix and "investing" in line6. its NOT a investment in the product itself.the only thing i have found worth investing in for value later down the road is guitars and amps and a few analog fx.

 

The customer expects a company like line6 to keep up with its peers such as fractal and kemper with frequent upgrades, bug fixes, and customer support.so far the upgrading has failed..imo 

 

I also own a axe fx product and not a fan of its owner but I get tons of upgrades even if its a small improvement here and there.I also get answers from the owner on the forums. so far with my helix ,not much. seems my " investment" into line6 has not paid off like the fractal product but it is early and time will tell .right now its the same ol same ol support from L6.

 

 

if after a year we are still talking about this, helix will be all over flea bay for cheap and companies like fractal will continue to prosper.  The ball is in line6's court, I have already done my part "investing" in the company, posting my wishes and complaints on the forum, and contacting support.

 

Sigh... Seems this comes up all the time. Fractal essentially makes one product. Yes, they do have the AX8, FX8 and the Axe FX, but they're all using the same base code just put in different boxes. It's essentially a boutique business. I don't expect Line 6 to ever put out updates at that same pace. Frankly, I've been amazed at the rate that Helix has been updated. It's been much faster than other Line 6 products. Kemper, well, they are similar - they have the one product to support. Overall, each of these companies probably have less than 5 or 10% of the user base that Line 6 does when you look at all the Line 6 products out there.

 

I guess the thing is if those products are more in line with what a user wants, they should just buy them and use them. I don't think Line 6 has any interest in getting into a tit for tat sort of thing with those companies. They are going to shape Helix in the way they feel it needs to be. I'm sure there will be areas of feature overlap in the future, just as there are now. I don't expect the Helix to ever have over 200 amp models like the Axe FX, though. I do expect more amp models, though. I do expect that future firmware upgrades for the Helix are going to make a lot of people happy. :)