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Just for fun: What do you think is coming in the next update?

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Agree. After using ownhammer, red wirez, 3sigma...you name it, I'm now back to the stock cabs because I find them easier to tweak, and in the end sounding better than 3rd party IR's. So, not sure what willjrock is doing, but he's doing something wrong.

I say the opposite dont know what you are doing wrong with IR since they sound way better than stock cabs which sound harsh and digital and very sterile as soon as i load my favourtite IR Helix comes to life and all my friends say the same even drummers keyboard players etc etc.

And that goes for most of the videos where they use stock cabs aswell as soon as the user then is using IR it sounds way better to my and many many others ears aswell.

Its so funny that almost everyone praise fremens presets and he is not using any stock cabs at all and since he is consider to be a master tweaker why cant he dial in presets with stock cabs then?.

Even his free presets is using IR

To my ears there are very few good sound you can get out of stock cabs.

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Lol...quite the assortment. I'll never truly be happy though, until somebody builds an FX pedal that will make my guitar sound like an over-ripe avocado blasted into a peat-bog with a compressed air cannon...ugh.

 

Seriously, what would one actually do with most of that crap?

 

Nels Cline incorporates a lot of this kind of stuff in his playing, both with Wilco and in his other groups... I'm always impressed with how he's able to pull it off. It's always a controlled chaos.

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I say the opposite dont know what you are doing wrong with IR...

Here's the thing: nobody's doing anything "wrong". Nobody's "right" either. You just like what you like. I, for instance, really don't want lima beans and tap water filtered through a sweat sock for lunch...not even if it was free. But if that's your thing, knock yourself out...;)

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What a killer video; thanks! Added a bunch of these to the gargantuan backlog. That Subdecay Harmonic Antagonizer is massive-sounding.

 

 

Lol...quite the assortment. I'll never truly be happy though, until somebody builds an FX pedal that will make my guitar sound like an over-ripe avocado blasted into a peat-bog with a compressed air cannon...ugh.

 

Seriously, what would one actually do with most of that crap?

 

I don't even care what these effects do as long as I can have a pedalboard full of names like "Subdecay Harmonic Antagonizer".  I think they had one of those on a "Dr. Who" episode last week. Don't think those names will quite fit on the scribble strips though.  :P 

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I don't even care what these effects do as long as I can have a pedalboard full of names like "Subdecay Harmonic Antagonizer". I think they had one of those on a "Dr. Who" episode last week. Don't think those names will quite fit on the scribble strips though. :P

Just wait till the "hypersonic trans-orbital felchifier" is released. It's got two discrete Fetzer valves. Only bats can hear it. Awesome...;)

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Just wait till the "hypersonic trans-orbital felchifier" is released. It's got two discrete Fetzer valves. Only bats can hear it. Awesome... ;)

 

LOL!  There's one you don't want to back into by accident. With mad naming skeels like that you should be collaborating with Line6 (or Douglas Adams). Makes old school names like "Super-Overdrive" seem just a bit pedestrian. 

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A job I'm glad I don't have, then

Without sound design, movies and TV shows would be pretty durned boring. I envy the imagination of the folks who do it well.

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Without sound design, movies and TV shows would be pretty durned boring. I envy the imagination of the folks who do it well.

And without sewage treatment plants, we'd all be showering in $hite...but I don't want to work there either. ;)

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Hey, a novel idea, how about a manual that describes and details EVERY param in the effects and amp modeling?? 

This dumbing down age of just knob turning and not having a clue of what something does is supposed to do might be amazing for some, I like to read and when I need info and you cannot locate it or get any sort of detail as probably 90% of those working at L6 do not know either it is just contributing to the non reading, non saying of anything w substance in the twitter age of twits.

I am a retired published writer need help with the manual writing?? When books die and writers cease the world will be a great deal more stupid than was imagined it could be. 

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Well I wouldn't say I think it's coming necessarily, but IMO the elephant in the otherwise wondrous Helix room is IR management.

 

Last night I spent a while setting up to check out a bunch of presets and IRs I've collected. Quite a pain.

 

You first have to figure out which IRs you currently have loaded that are used by presets you're keeping. I did that by exporting all the individual presets I want to keep, then I wrote a tool to list out all the IR slots used by any preset file in a recursive set of directories, and which preset files use them.

 

Then you need to reconcile all your IR developers' naming systems so you can know where they came from and what their original names were, then apply a 3 digit sequential prefix to them all so Helix loads them in a repeatable order. Once you've done that, you can load them in, then remap the IRs used by each preset to the new locations of any IRs you moved.

 

Not all those steps are necessary in all cases, but the bottom line is that this is way not automatic or user friendly, and it's tedious and error prone at scale.

Another amen to this. The stock cabs are really very good but it would be awesome to easily scroll through large libraries of 3rd Party IRs sitting in an IR folder on my iMac, sample them, grab them and save them in the patch on the Helix unit.

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Another amen to this. The stock cabs are really very good but it would be awesome to easily scroll through large libraries of 3rd Party IRs sitting in a library file on my iMac, sample them, grab them and save them in the patch on the Helix unit.

 

Vote it up! :)

 

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Improve-Impulse-Response-IR-Management/836099-23508

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I looked at the idea and it doesn't really address my concern - it seems more directed at the IR being portable with the preset. But it's still a good idea so I voted it up.

 

Thanks!  You can actually do what you are requesting now.  Using the Helix App, you can drag and drop individual IRs or groups of IRs from your computer file system at once into the "IMPULSES" list within the App.  Then you can sample them using the slot selector knob on the Helix or the slider within the App that references the slots you dropped the IRs into.

 

The beauty of the IdeaScale entry is that the gist of that is to reference IRs not by slot numbers but by their names or some derivative of the IR content itself (like digital signature).  The name/signature is stored in the preset instead of the slot number.  If you reload your IRs and they happen to go into different slot numbers, now all the presets that referenced the slot location will be wrong since they likely reference the wrong IR now.  Thus you can re-order IRs, load presets and IRs from 3rd parties, etc, without concern that the presets reference slot numbers and the Helix will do the management to find the loaded IR wherever it happens to be loaded, greatly simplifying the user experience.

 

One example of this is that the very nice Fremen big pack came with 25 essential IRs to achieve the tones he created.  Those must be loaded at locations 74-98 or similar.  What if you already have IRs for your own presets in those locations?  You either have to move your own IRs to some other location and recode all the presets that reference them to point to the new location - what a huge pain!  Or you have to load Fremen's IRs into another location and recode all 175 of his presets to reference those new locations - again - huge pain.

 

Also solves the issue of backing up IRs to your filesystem and reloading them.  Unless you use some very cumbersome and error-prone work-arounds, when you reload them, they will not go back into the Helix in the same order they were when they were exported.  But all your presets reference them by slot number - so you'll have to recode your all your presets again to reference the correct slot numbers.  Or resort to manual, cumbersome efforts to ensure you reload them in the correct slot numbers.

 

This solves that one, too.  So there are multiple user-experience wins with this proposed firmware feature update.

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Seriously, what would one actually do with most of that crap?

 

One would make music that doesn't sound like the same ol' blues/classic rock that'll relegate the guitar to "dad music" and eventual insignificance.  ;)

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One would make music that doesn't sound like the same ol' blues/classic rock that'll relegates the guitar to "dad music" and eventual insignificance.  ;)

 

3603ec3b5d0a8f6c92e417d6c36f2a2c5a71919f

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Thanks!  You can actually do what you are requesting now.  Using the Helix App, you can drag and drop individual IRs or groups of IRs from your computer file system at once into the "IMPULSES" list within the App.  Then you can sample them using the slot selector knob on the Helix or the slider within the App that references the slots you dropped the IRs into.

Not really my point, you see I want to be able to use the Helix App on my iMac to scroll through my IR libraries (thousands of IRs) and sample them within the preset without having to actually commit them. Once I find one I like for the preset I'm working on then I can drag that one into the Helix rack/floor unit (slots 1-128) to commit/save it. Sorry that I wasn't clear enough - Two Notes Wall of Sound III software is a working example of such a process.. YouTube it some time.

 

Now your idea would dovetail nicely into the process. I think? 

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One would make music that doesn't sound like the same ol' blues/classic rock that'll relegate the guitar to "dad music" and eventual insignificance. ;)

YUP.

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One would make music that doesn't sound like the same ol' blues/classic rock that'll relegate the guitar to "dad music" and eventual insignificance. ;)

Um...not to put too fine a point on it, but you are aware that you work for a company that devotes enormous resources to getting cutting edge technology to sound EXACTLY like a bunch of old sh*t that's been around for decades, right? Why bother if it's all insignificant? ;)

 

Significance is in the eye/ear of the beholder...are Mozart and Beethoven "insignificant" now because symphony orchestras still have "the same old instruments" that they've always had? Hardly fair...

 

Regardless, if we're gonna define "Dad music" as "guitars that still sound like guitars", then fine. I'll go to my grave playing Dad music...because if the only way to achieve "significance" is through the application of so much artificial processing that the end result is a collection of whistles, beeps, and clangs that would give R2D2 a seizure disorder, and couldn't even be identified as a guitar without a visual cue, then I'd rather play nothing at all. ;)

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Apologies if this has already been brought up - I'd just like to be able to save my favorite settings as a global "fave" for each block type saved and quickly accessible to drop in to any preset that I'm working on.

Even cooler would be if the "faves" would be persistent across all settings that contain them, so that changing them once changed them in every preset within a set list that they're a part of. Admittedly, this could confuse a lot of users, but I know that it'd work well for me.

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More effects and amps/cabs, acoustic amps/cabs, tuner stability, astrolabe, coffee-maker, zither, auto-autoharp, particle accelerator, and dog-walker.

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Being able to assign parameters to internal LFO's and to configure those LFO's in detail (like depth, waveform, speed etc).

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Not really my point, you see I want to be able to use the Helix App on my iMac to scroll through my IR libraries (thousands of IRs) and sample them within the preset without having to actually commit them. Once I find one I like for the preset I'm working on then I can drag that one into the Helix rack/floor unit (slots 1-128) to commit/save it. Sorry that I wasn't clear enough - Two Notes Wall of Sound III software is a working example of such a process.. YouTube it some time.

YES!

 

An important companion function is that if the correct IR isn't loaded into Helix, you could ask the editor to look through your library to find it.

 

For that to work, presets need to store an SHA512 hash or some other absolutely unique machine-independent identifier for each IR they use.

 

Additional thoughts:

  • Need a new editor setting to designate one or more directories as your IR library, and it would look there, rather than having to choose it every time. Maybe there should be an option to look in some specific directory instead, this one time, not sure that's important.
  • Ideally, the editor would optimize the search process by caching the hashes and timestamps of all IRs it knows about, and only recomputing ones it doesn't have or that have been modified since they were cached. Essentially that cache is an index of your IRs, keyed by that hash.
  • Since you may well have duplicates in your library, the cache has to be able to store multiple disk locations for each hash value.
  • A nice-to-have would be the ability to identify those duplicates, and maybe offer some options to clean them up.

However, there's a problem: Helix modifies at least some IRs the first time they're imported, presumably to optimize them in some way. That means the original file from Ownhammer or wherever wouldn't have the same checksum as the same IR loaded into Helix and exported.

 

The best solution I've thought of would be to integrate a conversion step into the caching process, by doing the conversion in memory and computing the hash of that, without storing the actual converted file on disk.

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I have no idea what we will get, so here's my wish list:

Integration of pedal controls in snapshots, so exp pedal settings also change when snapshot changes.

I'd love to see metering all over the place.

Graphic representations of EQs.

Shiva clean channel.

Touch-activated exp pedals

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Multiple splits and merges for each processor path.

Yes please.

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What are you listening to the Helix with? I'm new to the Forums and haven't read all your posts.

Everything from my personal monitoring which is a $14,000 set up, to $110 dell desktops, larger PA system, to modest club PA system, to my left over and seldom used, cheap and mid priced nearfield monitors. Ive tried most everything and Helix cabs are seldom used.

 
But then I dont need an expensive, or even the proper monitoring set up,  to tell me that the cabs in TH3 sound better than Helix. They sound better on every set-up ive tried.....and furthermore, one shouldnt need the "perfect speaker set-up" to make Helix itself, or the native cabs sound good.

 

I find this kind of interesting. I have a pretty healthy library of IRs from Ownhammer and Red Wirez and, honestly, find them to be a bit overrated. More than half of the time I prefer the sound I'm getting out of a stock cab configuration (typically two cabs in parallel) over the same patch with IRs. Often I find the IRs sound very "boxy" or have a "playing in a tin-can" sort of hollowness about them. The stock cabs sound more "open" to me, more like hearing a guitar amp and less like a recording of one. Interesting how we can all have such different experiences with the same stuff!

 
This is cabinet tone my friend. Sonic signature defined by a combination of speaker model,, cab construction, mic, and placement....among other variables.. all essential to building a great guitar tone.
 
If you find a very faithful replication of some of the most sought after speaker/cab/mic combinations in history of guitar........and you find that to be overrated compared to Helix cabs.... Respectfully speaking -You might want to re-evaluate what you believe is to be good guitar sound.
 
 

Agree. After using ownhammer, red wirez, 3sigma...you name it, I'm now back to the stock cabs because I find them easier to tweak, and in the end sounding better than 3rd party IR's. So, not sure what willjrock is doing, but he's doing something wrong.

Ummmmmmm....I would hope so because other than high and lo cuts,  IRs cant be "tweaked" at all..

 

Since anyone liking IRs better is "doing it wrong"   can you post some audio examples of  your stock Helix cab sounds that are O sooo right?  Until then, im considering this to be, argument for the sake of argument, from someone that doesnt really have a handle on what good guitar tone is, but more importantly, how to achieve..

 

I find the stock cabs and mics quite usable, and it's way easier to tweak them than to sift through a completely insane number of IRs.

 

You should have an idea of what you want beforehand. The only time you might be sifting through IRs, is when you are experimenting.

Otherwise, most people gravitate towards a few cabs a few mics and a few positions. Thats not so many IRs i dont think... start with what you know and like best and move on from there.

 

I say the opposite dont know what you are doing wrong with IR since they sound way better than stock cabs which sound harsh and digital and very sterile as soon as i load my favourtite IR Helix comes to life and all my friends say the same even drummers keyboard players etc etc.

And that goes for most of the videos where they use stock cabs aswell as soon as the user then is using IR it sounds way better to my and many many others ears aswell.

Its so funny that almost everyone praise fremens presets and he is not using any stock cabs at all and since he is consider to be a master tweaker why cant he dial in presets with stock cabs then?.

Even his free presets is using IR

To my ears there are very few good sound you can get out of stock cabs.

Thank You. I was beginning to wonder if they were all over 60 posters with fried hearing :P Kidding.... an option for left/right placement could help things, but all in all i think the cab/mic modeling is just poor.

 

IR since they sound way better than stock cabs which sound harsh and digital and very sterile

 

Id like to add in support of your comment here - With the exception of a few,   Helix cabs all pretty much sound the same. With a bit of EQ and mic swapping, i could make the Recto sound just like the Mandarin, the Whowatt sound just like the Greenback 25, ect...... close enough nobody would care anyway...Same goes even moreso for the mics..They are without a doubt the weakest recreations ive ever heard.

 

You will never convincingly reproduce the sounds of Cantrell, Nuno, ACDC, Stone temple pilots, Def Lep, Lynch, Petrucci, ect with stock Helix cabs.

 

 

 

 

 

More wishful update hopes:

 

1) Engl Powerball

2) JMP 2203

3) Bogner Ecstasy

4) Ability to choose alternative default mics on native cabs.

5) For Cab B to remain constant when cab A is changed - (cab B shouldnt switch to the lead 80 cab just because cab A  is changed) 

6) option to move mics left/right
7) much better mic modeling
8) much better cab modeling

9) Very in depth cab control......This is where the guitar sound IS, ,and to take it lightly means taking the guitar sound lightly. Soundwise, Helix does a lot of things, but nothing really well. I get better tones with a POD 2.0 bean than Helix and its native cabs. Happy to submit audio examples if you are skeptical. 

 

Load up the Plexi preset. No one will ever accuse you of having great tone :P , or even playing thru a Plexi knock off for that matter. They wouldnt even know you are going for a plexi sound.  Load up the Plexi on my UAD card and you know what it is instantly. Same with the Shiva. Would it really be such a sought after tone if it sounded like the helix preset?

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I get what is being said. The problem I have with L6 is the whole POD thing, time came and went and I truly hate that thing and you could not give me one. I left L6 from my POD experience and thought I never would return, the Helix seemed a different animal; and HX seemed to be getting close to Fractal and Kemper, for the money difference anyway. 

 

The Helix is an exciting new course change for L6 but if they continue to think in POD terms I will end up getting tired of the unit and move on, once again. I was really disappointed with the HD POD Reverbs being in the Helix and the continual ridiculous premise of using state of the art modeling technology to copy a bunch of outdated cheese pedals I never liked to begin with. So now that the newness is wearing off and gee I only have 10 more payments maybe I am expecting too much and I fell for it again? 

 

Now I have to buy 3rd party IRs. I do not like the whole IR thing myself, I am not recording these days I and have no use for mics and if I wanted the sound of my amps for PA and whatnot I like the Radial JDX speaker line tap DIs. Funny thing my one Eminence loaded 4x12 sounded amazing with different amps, I needed no mic and I did not want low wattage, low efficient speaker distortion tones,  

 

All this cab stuff with mics serving as massive EQ filter blocks and what is supposed to be the sound of an amp into a cabinet, mystifies me at times. Can I just have what my amp(s) sound like coming out of my speakers without all the added yada? How about just model me a Radial JDX DI after the amp and I am fine, I can EQ from there without all this mic cab stuff which merely alters the tones so much what does it matter what amp you are trying to use or sound like, it is apparently all what the speaker IR and mic sound like. I mean seriously go from a Dynamic to a Ribbon and the sound completely changes how is that even recognizable as the same amp??? Much less the param of moving the mic across the grill position is not there and that makes a difference as well. 

Since I have used higher end guitar speakers for years why would I want my great amp running through that low end low wattage speaker yada now with a choice of mics to screw the sound all up so nothing really matters at all. I think we are being "Trump'ed" probably just the same basic IR EQ'ed with different "mic" EQ blocks. The day I can get payments on a Fractal, L6 is going to miss me. 

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Um...not to put too fine a point on it, but you are aware that you work for a company that devotes enormous resources to getting cutting edge technology to sound EXACTLY like a bunch of old sh*t that's been around for decades, right? Why bother if it's all insignificant? ;)

 

Significance is in the eye/ear of the beholder...are Mozart and Beethoven "insignificant" now because symphony orchestras still have "the same old instruments" that they've always had? Hardly fair...

 

Regardless, if we're gonna define "Dad music" as "guitars that still sound like guitars", then fine. I'll go to my grave playing Dad music...because if the only way to achieve "significance" is through the application of so much artificial processing that the end result is a collection of whistles, beeps, and clangs that would give R2D2 a seizure disorder, and couldn't even be identified as a guitar without a visual cue, then I'd rather play nothing at all. ;)

 

Well said. Can't add much to that. The reason I play guitar is because of what a guitar is and sounds like. Experiment all you want but if you want to make music that sounds like a synth rather than a guitar, then play a synth.

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Well said. Can't add much to that. The reason I play guitar is because of what a guitar is and sounds like. Experiment all you want but if you want to make music that sounds like a synth rather than a guitar, then play a synth.

 

I love all those old sounds, and it's the main reason I play, but sometimes I want to sound like R2 having a seizure. It's ok to do both, and I want one thing that does it all. Call me crazy, say I'm a whiny baby. I'm getting older and can't take a truckload of gear everywhere I go. As far as what I'd like to see in the next update...auto volume like boss slow gear, crazy effects like the earlier vid or even just a nice version of ehx freeze, better synth, and a few more amps like another engl, another bogner, maybe a diezel. Polyphonic pitch would be totally cool as well.

 

Really, the auto volume is my #1. It would open so many possibilities! But helix is awesome as it stands! Rock on!

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My big question is ... when?

 

:blink:

 

Dennis

 

My guess is once the dust settles on my new pet hate...Spider V

 

In reality maybe soon if you look at the pattern for previous releases.

 

I'm happy to wait for a real quality update. The last one was so good and surprising!

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My guess is that we might see a Tone-Match IR type feature... and I'm guessing it'll be released somewhere around Oct 10th.  ;)

I'm most likely completely wrong...

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