Hum issue with Helix

[shawnt113]

I’ve had my Helix for a couple of months now and while I am enjoying a lot about it there is a big, BIG problem. The thing hums. It sounds like a ground loop problem, usually if I plug it into the same outlet my amp is plugged into it goes away. Problem is that is not always an option.

 

Tonight I went to rehearse at a very large church in our area that I am filling in at and was nothing short of embarrassed by the hum. They use Kempers there and whoever plays just brings a pedalboard so I was using the Helix for fx only. The only time he hum stopped was when I unplugged the cord from the 1/4†out. No hum from the Kemper, just the Helix, I was plugged into the same Furman the Kemper was, which should’ve fixed the issue.

 

Anyone know anything about his kind of problem and a possible fix?

[pbatts]

Have you tried the Ground Lift switch on the Helix?

[shawnt113]

Doesn’t that only apply to the XLR out?

[pbatts]

Does it?

[soblivion]

Doesn’t that only apply to the XLR out?

No. It applys any of the outputs on the Helix. Also, using an XLR out(if that's an  option) itself may eliminate hum.

 

What kind of amp are you using? It may also have a ground lift. I had a nasty hum at my last gig and used the ground lift on my FRFR speaker to fix it.

[spikey]

You did not mention...

 

Did you change guitar cables?

Change/try another guitar?

 

You mentioned plugging into the same outlet that your amp is plugged into, do you have a humm buster between the send of Helix and the input of your amp (assuming you are running 4 cable method)?

[PerS]

Hi

 

Get one of these -http://lehle.com/EN/Little-Lehle-II. Got my hands on the LTHZ-transformer incl in this and have used it for years. Today I use it between my little pedal board in front of the Helix. Used it to my POD HD before. Goes from very disturbing/envying hum, to focus on playing :-). If you can't get your hands on the transformer it self (got it from a company in Sweden and made a box with phase shift and two out, one isolated and one pass through, not stereo though) and build a unit, there in different models here - http://lehle.com/EN/AB-Switcher, well made and many applications. Image/icon is a sine wave and a X over it.

 

//Per

[shawnt113]

I’m sorry I wasn’t clear in this case. The church I was at uses Kempers exclusively. My chain was Guitar-> Helix instrument in->Helix 1/4†out ->Kemper input.

 

To the question about changing cables; the hum was consistent whether the cable was plugged into the guitar and even if you unplug the cable between the guitar and Helix from the Helix, it was a consistent volume also, regardless of the volume of the patch or master volume of the Helix. The only time it stopped was when I unplugged the cable that was run from the Helix out to the Kemper in. When I ran into the Kemper only, no hum. The issue is with the Helix, this isn’t the first time either, but I can usually get around it.

[jbuhajla]

I’m sorry I wasn’t clear in this case. The church I was at uses Kempers exclusively. My chain was Guitar-> Helix instrument in->Helix 1/4†out ->Kemper input.

 

To the question about changing cables; the hum was consistent whether the cable was plugged into the guitar and even if you unplug the cable between the guitar and Helix from the Helix, it was a consistent volume also, regardless of the volume of the patch or master volume of the Helix. The only time it stopped was when I unplugged the cable that was run from the Helix out to the Kemper in. When I ran into the Kemper only, no hum. The issue is with the Helix, this isn’t the first time either, but I can usually get around it.

Did you have Helix and Kemper plugged into the same power source/circuit? Is your 1/4" out to Kemper set to instrument level?

[shawnt113]

Yes, it was plugged into the same Furman unit. Not sure what the level on the Helix out is set to, I left it there for the sound engineer to mess with (I’m good friends with the worship pastor so I can trust them with my unit), but a my normal P/W gig I run it the same way into a Quilter Labs Toneblock.

[pbatts]

Is your 1/4" out to Kemper set to instrument level?

[shawnt113]

 

Is your 1/4" out to Kemper set to instrument level?

 

I just noticed that was the question posed and edited my post but I’m not sure. I’d assume it’s set what ever the factory default is since I don’t recall ever changing it.

[jbuhajla]

I just noticed that was the question posed and edited my post but I’m not sure. I’d assume it’s set what ever the factory default is since I don’t recall ever changing it.

I am not sure what default is either but you can find it in Global Settings>Ins/Outs on the second page under 1/4" Outs. Make sure it is set to instrument if you are going from 1/4" out to the Kemper in. 

[pbatts]

Yes, it was plugged into the same Furman unit. Not sure what the level on the Helix out is set to, I left it there for the sound engineer to mess with (I’m good friends with the worship pastor so I can trust them with my unit), but a my normal P/W gig I run it the same way into a Quilter Labs Toneblock.

 

In both cases you'll want the output set to Instrument Level.

[shawnt113]

Do you think this will eliminate the hum?

 

I still have a hum issue even when I run it 4 cable method with my 5150iii.

[jbuhajla]

Do you think this will eliminate the hum?

 

I still have a hum issue even when I run it 4 cable method with my 5150iii.

I would expect yes. If it is set to line level, you are sending a line level signal into the front end of the Kemper/Tone Block which is expecting a much lower level instrument level signal. 

 

4cm may be a little different. Generally your signals are instrument level on the Helix out and Helix loops, but some amps can take line level inputs in their effects loop. I don't have a 5150 so I cannot say for sure. 

[jbuhajla]

Tonight I went to rehearse at a very large church in our area that I am filling in at and was nothing short of embarrassed by the hum. They use Kempers there and whoever plays just brings a pedalboard so I was using the Helix for fx only. The only time he hum stopped was when I unplugged the cord from the 1/4†out. No hum from the Kemper, just the Helix, I was plugged into the same Furman the Kemper was, which should’ve fixed the issue.

 

I would also ask if going direct from Helix to the board is an option, and take the Kemper out of the equation. If the church has a dedicated sound guy, that shouldn't be an issue. Just take the outputs from the Kemper and plug them into your Helix. Ask the sound guy if he is expecting a line level or mic level signal. If he doesn't know, then give him a mic level output signal from Helix and he can turn up your channel if necessary. 

 

My P/W rig is Helix direct to the board. Sometimes a guy fills in for me that plays with a mic'ed amp in an isolation enclosure, but we share the same XLR. I have my output on Helix set to mic level so I can swap out between Helix and cabinet mic seamlessly when needed. 

[pbatts]

One other thought. You should not be using any Helix Amp or Cab models if you are running into the front of the Kemper.

[shawnt113]

I actually did remember to turn off amp & cab modeling, so that wasn’t the issue, though forgetting at first would be something I’d be inclined to do on occasion. I don’t think they will run me direct with the Helix, their guitar racks are all back stage, seems like it would be an ordeal to make that happen. The sound guy is going to do some experimenting and let me know what he finds out. Worst case scenario I’ll just take my Axe FX and run it for the fx only.

 

My concern is that I bought the Helix as an alternative to my AF2 and want to leave my AF2 hooked up in the studio, and every time I’ve set it up I have had some sort of noise problem. I have reached out to tech support. Hopefully I’ll get a usable answer.

 

I can’t tell you guys how much I appreciate the help, if you have any more suggestions please keep them coming.

[shawnt113]

Has anyone here ever tried one of those HumX from Ebtech? Do they work?

[bigolsparky]

I had a hum for a live show because I had accidentally engaged the ground lift.  Hit the switch, no hum.

[shawnt113]

Spoke to tech support last night. Here is the info I took away from the conversation is the following: The ground switch only applies to the XLR outs, sometimes these things happen, they’ve heard of issues but not enough of them to warrant further investigation, I may need to look into a hum-buster of some type.

[spikey]

I would also ask if going direct from Helix to the board is an option, and take the Kemper out of the equation.

 

 

Yea I was gonna ask, why in the world would you (but of course you can) run the output of Helix into a Profiler?

[shawnt113]

The reason for running from Helix to Kemper is because this church uses Kempers for consistency. I’m using the Helix in this instance for fx only, in place of a standard pedal board. This isn’t the church I usually lead Worship at, this weekend I’m a paid fill in so I gotta run how they want.

[spikey]

I understand. Well, I wouldn't run Helix into a Kemper but I might run just the Kemper. It sounds great (as good as Helix in some cases and even better on some patches). Nothing wrong with using a Kemper. The reason I have Helix and sold my Kemper is because of no editor (BIG deal for me), and the fact that Helix has the ability to be the "center" of the guitar studio because of all its aux sends and returns.

[glideman]

Dang... you sold your Kemper, too?  LoL!  We're sychronized...

[shawnt113]

They don’t have the Kempers set up for FX and I wont have an opportunity to program it, in PW boost, reverb and dotted 1/8 delay is essential. If I start doing this gig regularly I may ask about going in there and setting up patches to use my ground control pro for switching.

[AlexKenivel]

Plug it all into the SAME OUTLET

[FlyingsCool]

Another person recently had a similar issue.  It turned out he liked to run a cleanish amp and stack a whole bunch of drive pedals in front of the amp.  It turned out all that gain staging and compression at each stage raised the noise floor quite a bit.  He realized after talking with folks that if he instead relied more on the amp for distortion and used only 1 or two drive pedals instead, his noise floor went wayyy down.

 

You said that you are plugged into the same circuit as the Kemper you are running through?  Seems like you addressed the ground loop issue.

Unless the Kemper shuts off signal out when a cable is not plugged into it.  Did you connect your guitar directly into the Kemper and get no noise?

Is the Kemper connected to something that's not plugged into the same circuit as the Kemper?

 

Are you in the US?

You stated your problem was "hum" which usually, in the US, is I think a 60Hz hum from the electrical supply.  Is it possibly gain staging noise?  Are your cables picking up electrical noise from the venue (as opposed to a ground loop issue).  XLR outs would address this, but you are using the unbalanced 1/4 out it appears.  I always use XLR if I can to avoid electrical interference.

 

Is the Kemper input balanced?  Can you use an XLR to TRS 1/4 cable to go into the Kemper?

 

Turns out it looks like the Kemper input is balanced.  You may want to consider the above.  In fact I think you can even connect to the Kemper with an XLR cable.  I found this thread regarding connecting unbalanced to balanced inputs

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/30627-plugging-unbalanced-jacks-into-balanced-jack-inputs.html

 

Anyway, a couple ideas to consider.

[twisteddrag0n]

So I have a similar issue..threw a spectrum analyzer on it and there are spikes every 60hz, with the higher db spikes occurring around the 2k-3khz area. No CRT screens, turned all the lights off and everything else I could, with no effect. I found I could switch to using the aux in and the noise was pretty much gone, albiet the tone was a bit diminished. Switched back to the guitar input, and took a closer look at the noise gate settings. The hi-z setting was on auto, but I found for my guitar 'auto' meant 1MOhm....which didn't help. Dialed it back to the 22k(or the 32k, depending on how hot the patch is) and while the spectrum analyzer still shows it, the noise is no longer audible, sitting at around -100db. I hope someone can use this info to help them along!

[douglaspweaver]

I was getting 60 cycle hum from the Helix LT 1/4 " outputs using a blank patch . I tried all sorts of ground lifting options (including the switch ) but had no success . I was able to solve the problem using a passive transformer isolator . I used an ART DTI . This is not an uncommon problem when connecting gear but a bit of a shame to have to deal with . If you plan to never use the unbalanced outs then there is no issue . Ive had no hum issues using the balanced outs .

[tenayar]

helix,  Dry signal . Depending on what direction I point either my strat or tele will depend if I almost get slight hum. Playing through headphones Completely DRY preset. Nothing in the chain.  If I slightly turn the guitar to certain angles will almost get rid of VERY small Hum/ voltage coming though head phones. NEW cables.  then when I turn guitar away at specific angles.  NO voltage hum/  IT was VERY light to start with.  But I am doing Ambient music and need complete dry signal. the best I can get with home studio. Even with I get VERY far away from the Helix floor model  it still does it.  turn guatar at angle a VERY SLIGHT HUM. then back NO HUM. I assume the single coil pickups will always have some hum but on dry signal? Ofcourse in 1 and 5 positions on strat its less but I can still hear Voltage on dry nothing in the chain   It increases when I put guitar parallel or perpendicular to the helix.  I have even tried turning all the lights off.  The imac.  etc and try in the dark. Same issue.  Perhaps the voltage from the Helix being directed into the single coils and depending what angle it goes almost silent.  The issue is I have to just place and stay still in a specific angle to get completely clean on clean channel through helix.  Or I am just retarded?  Its like I have to be a statue in a specific angle to keep the thing quiet. 

 

Recap. When I turn the guitar angle the hum goes away on any of my guitars NOthing in chain on clean channel.  I have to sit in certain angles to get no voltage hum.  Is this normal for helix?

[brue58ski]

Strats and Teles are notorious for picking up hum. Try a guitar with a humbucker. If it goes away, then the guitar is your issue. Having said that, are you hooked up to your computer via USB? That was one thing that created hum for me at one time. Unplug that and see if it goes away.

[theElevators]

Also, try the built-in noise gate that every preset can have.  It really works great with default settings. 

[pcarey3]

just bought a Helix.  ...used but almost new from a friend who found it overwhelming.

The output on this thing is way, way to noisy to use at a gig or session!!

I've read the above..

...good cables

...preset selection of no relevance

...plugged in the same location as an amp or a console

...onboard noise gate of no use....

 

...did I just make a very expensive mistake? I was led to believe this was a premium piece of gear!

 

Peter

[theElevators]

On 5/15/2023 at 8:01 PM, pcarey3 said:

just bought a Helix.  ...used but almost new from a friend who found it overwhelming.

The output on this thing is way, way to noisy to use at a gig or session!!

I've read the above..

...good cables

...preset selection of no relevance

...plugged in the same location as an amp or a console

...onboard noise gate of no use....

 

...did I just make a very expensive mistake? I was led to believe this was a premium piece of gear!

 

Peter

Have you tried factory presets?  If you select a "blank" "new preset" preset, is there still noise?  How exactly are you connecting your Helix, and what do you use to hear the sound you're making? 

[datacommando]

On 5/16/2023 at 1:01 AM, pcarey3 said:

 

...did I just make a very expensive mistake?

Only if the guy you bought it from is laughing.

 

You don’t say how you have the Helix connected - and what it’s connected to - amp via 4CM, front of amp, solid state or tube amp, USB into DAW? What are you monitoring on? It helps to know this stuff.

 

You say “your friend” found it overwhelming, but did he say it was noisy? How was he using it? Did you check it out before buying?

 

You also say - “The output on this thing is way, way to noisy to use at a gig or session!!”
 

That doesn’t stack up with what the majority of users have found, lots of folk gigging and recording without issue. I have been using my Helix floor unit in my studio on an almost daily basis since late 2015 and I haven’t encountered the noise issues you describe.

 

A little more info would help.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

[brue58ski]

Like everyone before me. Need more info.

 

What outputs are you using

What are they set at line instrument or mic (these settings also depend on what output you are using the choices given aren't on all of them.)

What are the outputs going to

Have you tried Elevators suggestion and listened to a totally clean patch

Is your USB also plugged in at the same time

 

Start by answering those questions as best you can.

 

Noisy has not been an issue for me.