Line 6 Seen On Stage

[radatats]

So much for people saying the pros don't use modelers, especially Line 6...  I just saw Transatlantic in NYC and Ted Leonard from Spock's Beard was sitting in on rhythm guitar.  What do you know, he was playing a sweet black JTV-59 into a POD HD500 direct to the PA.  Sounded great including the few times he was doing acoustic parts!

 

So I know Steve Howe uses Line 6 live.  Who else have you seen using our favorite gear?

[xXShadeMakerXx]

I was watching Live at Daryl's house the other day with Joe Walsh as the guest and there was a DT25 on the floor. I'm not sure who was using it but it was there amongst the pros.

[smrybacki]

As I said elsewhere here, John McFee of the Doobie Brothers uses a Variax 700 and an XT Live to cover everything from electric to acoustic to slide guitar tones plus I believe his fiddle is rooted through it s well. Great down to earth guy to btw...He was more than happy to shoot the breeze about his gear.

[Rewolf48]

Spocks Beard - can't see the HD500, but definitely JTV without backline amp: 

[still_fiddlin]

I was watching a music "special" with Heart on New Years or just before, and the guitarist was using a Variax on at least one number.

[MIKEY9966]

Although the pod 500 is good I am sure if we all have unlimited budgets our rig would be much different, have a guitar tech and sound man to deal with your sound instead of endless hours of trying to get your tone right, also I don't think the pod 500 would hold up long on the road I mean I guy like zack wylde would crush it In a show or two, maybe In a year or to 2 line six will come out with something better or some one will beat them to it, guitar technology is moveing very fast, and modeling is the way its going just not yet.

[phil_m]

Although the pod 500 is good I am sure if we all have unlimited budgets our rig would be much different, have a guitar tech and sound man to deal with your sound instead of endless hours of trying to get your tone right, also I don't think the pod 500 would hold up long on the road I mean I guy like zack wylde would crush it In a show or two, maybe In a year or to 2 line six will come out with something better or some one will beat them to it, guitar technology is moveing very fast, and modeling is the way its going just not yet.

 

There are plenty of people using modeling live now. I don't agree that "it's just not yet". It's here. The fact that people don't use it can be for a multitude of reasons. The force of habit is a large one. I'd also say that the Line 6 did a great deal to address people's concerns with durability concerns with the HD500X. It's possible to break anything, of course. I always wonder what people do with gear when the complain about it not being "roadworthy" or whatnot.

[cruisinon2]

It's possible to break anything, of course. I always wonder what people do with gear when the complain about it not being "roadworthy" or whatnot.

 

I've often wondered that myself...heave anything across the room like an enraged baboon, and you'll destroy it.

[wicker_man]

Spocks Beard - can't see the HD500, but definitely JTV without backline amp: 

 

Looks like he's using the VDI, judging by the stiffness of that lead.

[radatats]

he was using the POD with the JTV last night, I had a great view from the balcony, small club...  Nobody even noticed he was playing a Les Paul during the acoustic bits and I guarantee nobody walked out going "ya know, that rhythm guitar sounded digital"...

[bjnette]

LOLOL 

Paul Pesco's clean sound in the earlier clip was pretty good from the Live XT.

 

I got no doubt the HD's can do distorted amps and FX well, it is the clean tones that tell the tale and 

some cleaner amp players feel it falls short.

 

But you know, if you really get to tweaking the parameters of the amp it can sound acceptable.

[tim1953]

LOLOL 

Paul Pesco's clean sound in the earlier clip was pretty good from the Live XT.

 

I got no doubt the HD's can do distorted amps and FX well, it is the clean tones that tell the tale and 

some cleaner amp players feel it falls short.

 

 

Yep - clean and the sounds between totally clean and over the top distortion is where it doesn't get it.

[FlyingsCool]

When you say he did acoustic parts with a Les Paul, did you mean his guitar sounded like an acoustic guitar, or was he just creating a clean amp sound?

 

If it sounded like an acoustic guitar, how did he accomplish that with an HD500?  It is my undestanding the Line 6 stuff models amps and effects, not guitars?

 

Sorry for the newbie question, my Pod HD just arrived today, and I can't wait to get home from work to check it out....

[radatats]

When you say he did acoustic parts with a Les Paul, did you mean his guitar sounded like an acoustic guitar, or was he just creating a clean amp sound?  If it sounded like an acoustic guitar, how did he accomplish that with an HD500?  It is my undestanding the Line 6 stuff models amps and effects, not guitars?  Sorry for the newbie question, my Pod HD just arrived today, and I can't wait to get home from work to check it out....

 

He was using a JTV-59 Variax which is a "Les Paul" body type modeling guitar that works in conjunction with the POD.  The Variax can actually model different acoustic guitars very realistically.  I am sure 99.5% of the audience had no idea it was modeling vs the real deal nor did they care.  It simply sounded great...

[bvaladez74]

Yep - clean and the sounds between totally clean and over the top distortion is where it doesn't get it.

You can achieve amazing real amp over top, high gain...if you put the time into it.  Paul's, as an example though, is horrible.  His gain tones are really thin and get lost in the mix.  

[katiekerry]

I have the Sarah McLachlan After glow live DVD and I noticed Her Guitarist was using a Variax ( not the new JTV series).  Sounded pretty good..

[dbaudrate]

As I said elsewhere here, John McFee of the Doobie Brothers uses a Variax 700 and an XT Live to cover everything from electric to acoustic to slide guitar tones plus I believe his fiddle is rooted through it s well. Great down to earth guy to btw...He was more than happy to shoot the breeze about his gear.

 

From the videos and photo's I've seen, I think it's a Variax 600.  No matter, I wonder if he uses the stock sounds or if Line6 has created some custom sounds for him.  Also, I'd like to get a copy of his XTLive patches...

 

Its interesting that he hasn't upgraded to the jtv...

[smrybacki]

From the videos and photo's I've seen, I think it's a Variax 600.  No matter, I wonder if he uses the stock sounds or if Line6 has created some custom sounds for him.  Also, I'd like to get a copy of his XTLive patches...

 

Its interesting that he hasn't upgraded to the jtv...

Why bother?  He gets great sounds as is.  Besides, they are perpetually on tour it seems and changing mid-tour is likely ill advised.

 

http://www.doobfan.com/tour/tour_dates5.htm

[stumblinman]

His tech probably has one for him, but is still repeatedly reflashing the firmware between attempts to level string volumes and lessen piezo quacking. I'm sure you'll see it next tour.

 

From the videos and photo's I've seen, I think it's a Variax 600. No matter, I wonder if he uses the stock sounds or if Line6 has created some custom sounds for him. Also, I'd like to get a copy of his XTLive patches...

 

Its interesting that he hasn't upgraded to the jtv...

[brue58ski]

It always kills me when people say that modeling "isn't there yet".  I'm assuming it's because it doesn't exactly, down to the last air molecule and electron, move air (simulate) the way an amp does in the way they think it should sound. Who cares? The sims are just a starting point. To me, these are the same guys who would tell Jimi to turn it down because amps aren't supposed to distort. If it sounds good to you then it is good. No matter how it's gotten. I'm also going to assume that the people who say using a real amp sounds better, weren't at the venue to hear what it sounded like.  If I have to record my acoustic guitar on a old cassette recorder at a level that it distorts on the tape and then play it back out of the recorder into a small speaker and mic that, then so be it. 

This was used on several classic rock songs and are considered classic rock tones.  Read this.

 

http://www.macjams.com/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=16;showtopic=217112

 

So don't listen to all those "it ain't there yet" guys. Fine they don't have to use one. But don't take their opinion as gospel. Make up your own mind. I personally like many of the sounds I get out of a stereo PA as much as a Marshal stack pointed at my face.  Does it sound like that Marshall? No. Is one better than the other? To me, no. Does it sound cool. YES! Overall we're just talking about another way of getting the vibrations a guitar string makes out to a persons ear. If we're going to get down to what is the most pure tone, well that would be a string stretched between two nails. Everything else is an alteration of that. And even then people would argue about what string is the most pure sounding string. :wacko:

[tochiro]

I've used an HD500 on stage for 2 years and there's just one thing I don't quite like with it - The OD and distortion FXs.

[lachinelli]

PODs have been a signature sound for Fear Factory's guitarrist Dino Cazares. I remember he started using it since XT series, getting a great sound for their Digimortal album. Apparently, he's been using XT, X3 and HD until he gearwhored into Axe FX :D

It's been almost 2 years since I own my POD HD500. I wanted one since XT, and just 2 years ago I had the money for one. I remember when I first used it at a Metal Fest last year, in an open place, good sound for the venue, my patches weren't the best (Just simple amp and wahs or whatever I used, but no mid-EQ or Screamer). This guy from another band came with a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier. My band was playing before, and I liked the sound of my guitar (Which by the way, distorted patches use a Treadplate heheh). After our show, I sat to listen to this band and thought "He's really going to kick lollipop with that Mesa", but to my surprise, it didn't sound better than my guitar.

As long as you can get a decent unclipped sound from the POD, I think it sounds great both live and in studio. Of course, it'll never sound as good as real gear in my oppinion, but there's unlimited possibilites in these boards. You have like $30,000 gear worthy in it, something hardly achievable in real life. It's not like your going to use everything, but in time, you know you can experiment with them and see what it comes out.

Edit: By the way, my POD is coming out through the Power Amp of my transistor amp head and 4x12" cab. I've tried it through the PA of our rehearsal place, but I never got it to sound good, so I never ventured into trying it direct to the PA in a live situation.

[smrybacki]

It always kills me when people say that modeling "isn't there yet".  I'm assuming it's because it doesn't exactly, down to the last air molecule and electron, move air (simulate) the way an amp does in the way they think it should sound. Who cares? The sims are just a starting point. To me, these are the same guys who would tell Jimi to turn it down because amps aren't supposed to distort. If it sounds good to you then it is good. No matter how it's gotten. I'm also going to assume that the people who say using a real amp sounds better, weren't at the venue to hear what it sounded like.  If I have to record my acoustic guitar on a old cassette recorder at a level that it distorts on the tape and then play it back out of the recorder into a small speaker and mic that, then so be it. 

This was used on several classic rock songs and are considered classic rock tones.  Read this.

 

http://www.macjams.com/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=16;showtopic=217112

 

So don't listen to all those "it ain't there yet" guys. Fine they don't have to use one. But don't take their opinion as gospel. Make up your own mind. I personally like many of the sounds I get out of a stereo PA as much as a Marshal stack pointed at my face.  Does it sound like that Marshall? No. Is one better than the other? To me, no. Does it sound cool. YES! Overall we're just talking about another way of getting the vibrations a guitar string makes out to a persons ear. If we're going to get down to what is the most pure tone, well that would be a string stretched between two nails. Everything else is an alteration of that. And even then people would argue about what string is the most pure sounding string. :wacko:

I feel vaguely offended by this post.  Meh, I'm over it.

 

Point 1: If guitar amp and effect modelling was totally "there", wouldn't everyone be using it everywhere?  Apparently the burgeoning boutique amp, pedal and guitar market didn't get the memo.

 

Point 2: You're just as bad as anyone saying "it isn't there" by insulting someone for their opinion.  And Jimi could play as loud as he wanted because, well, he was Jimi.

 

Point3: If modelling was totally there, why do companies continue to innovate in this area and "up the ante" as it were.  Like our very own favorite modelling company Line6 for example who brought us the end all, be all of the PODXT line only to dump it for the HD line?  Just saying man.  Something that is truly THERE stands the test of time.  Like Leo Fender's original designs.  And Les Paul's. And Jim Marshall's.  And etc...So, when modelling is truly there, it'll stay there.

 

All that said, it works fine for many people and in most cases, and audience couldn't tell the difference if you held an Uzi to their heads anyway.  Personally, I have both analog and digital gear and I like them both. But since I have original spec Fender amps and Line6's HD models of same, I'm here to tell you it isn't the same thing and I would be willing to take a blindfold test if one could be arranged.  It'd be OK if I was wrong too, but that's how I see it right now.

 

Peace.  Music. Choice. It's all good.

 

Edited to add that this is nothing personal about the quoted poster here, just my thoughts on the content.  Heck, we pretty much agree in principal anyway lol...

Edited April 11, 2014 by smrybacki

[Digital_Igloo]

Point 1: If guitar amp and effect modelling was totally "there", wouldn't everyone be using it everywhere? Apparently the burgeoning boutique amp, pedal and guitar market didn't get the memo.

Even if modeling was 100% perfect (that is, not one golden-ear professional could ever double-blind differentiate between real and modeled with regard to both feel and tone), perception bias and the placebo effect would still be very strong nuts to crack. So no, everyone still wouldn't be using it everywhere.

[smrybacki]

Even if modeling was 100% perfect (that is, not one golden-ear professional could ever double-blind differentiate between real and modeled with regard to both feel and tone), perception bias and the placebo effect would still be very strong nuts to crack. So no, everyone still wouldn't be using it everywhere.

Good point, similar to the bias people have for say Fender, Marshall or Mesa amps for example.  Good catch.

[radatats]

Just to clarify... there are plenty of threads where we can debate the benefits of analog vs digital... I was hoping we could focus on reporting bands/performers/recordings where Line 6 was actually featured...  I love spotting a POD hidden in a performer's rig where they hoped nobody would see it...  hehehe...

[joel_brown]

Yeah, this modeling versus real debate is beyond old.  What's that saying "Opinions are like lollipops, everyone has one".

[ColonelForbin]

As a compliment to this discussion, here is a link - the back and forth in the comments are particularly of interest. I found this particular little exchange of opinion most interesting!

Line 6 POD HD500 Savior Of The Poor Guitar Masses

“I could never record a real amp again and I wouldn’t feel like I was missing anything. â€

 

>So Hendrix walks in.. and you want to put him through a modeler>?

 

"I can’t speak for a dead guy, but I’ve got a feeling Hendrix would be bringing his own setup to the studio if he were still alive. Either way,the odds of him using the latest technology now are quite high since he was using the latest technology in his heyday."

 

There was also a link to a page someone posted with their take on how to get good tones with an HD500:

 

http://www.foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/quickGuide

[brue58ski]

My point wasn't that modeling was or was not here.  My point was that, to say it is not, is just as insulting as you think I was. Or my real point being, it you like it, don't listen to those who say they don't. I'm sorry if you thought I was insulting anyone or anyone's opinion of modeling. My intention was to tell those that might have been insulted by the "it ain't there" statement to ignore it as opinion and not fact. If you don't think it is "there", I don't think that because I like it, I think you're an idiot. Quite the contrary. I get why you may not like it, but if it is "there" for me, it's just as insulting to imply that it definitively is not. I apologize again if it sounded like I was insulting anyone. That was not my intention.

[simonbaker]

 

Not to get off course, but I think this is where Amplifi will pay dividends for Line 6 down the road. It's an introduction to modeling and being somewhat marketed to the IOS/Android crowd and the younger folks is akin to getting their feet wet with modeling. From there, where do they go? The next step up, the pro level products.

At 150 watts, those kids are going to get heard!

[smrybacki]

My point wasn't that modeling was or was not here. My point was that, to say it is not, is just as insulting as you think I was. Or my real point being, it you like it, don't listen to those who say they don't. I'm sorry if you thought I was insulting anyone or anyone's opinion of modeling. My intention was to tell those that might have been insulted by the "it ain't there" statement to ignore it as opinion and not fact. If you don't think it is "there", I don't think that because I like it, I think you're an idiot. Quite the contrary. I get why you may not like it, but if it is "there" for me, it's just as insulting to imply that it definitively is not. I apologize again if it sounded like I was insulting anyone. That was not my intention.

Is all good man and no worries here. This debate will last a millennium after all and I guess I wasn't having the best day yesterday. Personally, I used to have a love - hate relationship with my digital rig. There are times when I am amazed at what it can do. Then there are other times I look for my 2 pound hammer. But when I realized the same thing had been happening with my tube amps and pedals I had to admit it was me.

 

The thing about music and tone that rarely gets talked about is the listener. Sometimes (like when you are going to a great concert) everything sounds great - especially a beer or three down the line. Other times you work all day and come home kind of tired and maybe grumpy and your best efforts sound like crap. Turns out as well your hearing gets fatigued too, further complicating things.

 

One I realized all of this, I've not really thought in terms of "better", but rather what can I get out of today's playing with whatever gear I sit down with and given my current mood and state of being.