Where are the Marshalls with bright caps?

[ledvedder5150]

Why don't any of the Marshall models have a bright cap setting like Fractal? Has anyone had any success dialing in a good aggressive Marshall tone with the kerrang? I've tried this with the Plexi bright, 2204, Badonk, Placater, etc. They just don't get there with all that I've tried. 

[rd2rk]

As I'm sure you are well aware, this topic has been beaten to death over on TGP and TGF and probably elsewhere, as the major complainer is compulsive about letting everyone know about it.

 

The 2203 modeled did not have a bright cap. MAYBE the next update they'll be modeling one WITH a bright cap.

 

Meanwhile, all the other Marshalls are normal and if you can't get a good Marshall tone, and none of the other Marshall sound-alikes light your fire, then maybe Helix isn't for you.

 

Sorry if that sounds harsh (not really) but I am SO sick of hearing this nonsense! Buy a Fractal!

 

It's not like you'll have a problem selling your Helix to one of the thousands who DGAF about the frelling bright cap!

 

 

[themetallikid]

On 11/7/2023 at 12:11 PM, rd2rk said:

As I'm sure you are well aware, this topic has been beaten to death over on TGP and TGF and probably elsewhere, as the major complainer is compulsive about letting everyone know about it.

 

The 2203 modeled did not have a bright cap. MAYBE the next update they'll be modeling one WITH a bright cap.

 

Meanwhile, all the other Marshalls are normal and if you can't get a good Marshall tone, and none of the other Marshall sound-alikes light your fire, then maybe Helix isn't for you.

 

Sorry if that sounds harsh (not really) but I am SO sick of hearing this nonsense! Buy a Fractal!

 

It's not like you'll have a problem selling your Helix to one of the thousands who DGAF about the frelling bright cap!

 

 

Also, if you search (not sure here, but on TGP for sure) there is someone who shared EQ (I think it was a Para EQ block) settings to basically add what the bright cap is doing.   

[Schmalle]

IMHO the aggressive bright cap Marshall sound (roaring with crushing glass highs) is more ore less a blind spot in the Helix.

 

Personally I really like the JVM OD1 orange mode and would like to see something like that in the Helix.

Also there are rumors that the next update is soon to be released and is likely including a stock 2203 JCM 800.

 

Tip 1: I got pretty close to the JVM OD2 orange model (neutral EQ, Drive 3) with the Badonk with Drive 4.5, B 2.5, M 2.5, T 6.8, P 7.5, Master 4, Depth 5, Sag 7.6.

Tip 2:The shelving eq in front of amps works to a degree. Boost high freq at 1.5kHz as a starting point.

[DunedinDragon]

I'm really confused!!!  How is it I've had my Helix since it came out in 2015 and there has not been a single situation in the thousands of presets I've created where I had to ask this question???

[willjrock]

On 11/8/2023 at 3:12 AM, DunedinDragon said:

I'm really confused!!!  How is it I've had my Helix since it came out in 2015 and there has not been a single situation in the thousands of presets I've created where I had to ask this question???

Im waiting on my record deal. They say that once my amp/modeler has a properly represented bright cap they'll start pressing off the records. :)

[ledvedder5150]

I've built several plexi and 2203/2204 circuits. It's pretty incredible what that bright cap can do! I have a few amps with switchable bright caps, and all have usable tones.

 

I hate to keep bringing them up, but Fractal amp models have a saturation switch on every model, which does exactly what the Jose circuit does (similar to the option on the Placater). Also, a bright cap switch on every model (similar to the Derailed Ingrid). Why not add these to other models?

 

I'm shocked this hasn't come up more than it has. And I'm surprised my asking about it is so funny. 

[DunedinDragon]

On 11/8/2023 at 9:40 AM, ledvedder5150 said:

I've built several plexi and 2203/2204 circuits. It's pretty incredible what that bright cap can do! I have a few amps with switchable bright caps, and all have usable tones.

 

I hate to keep bringing them up, but Fractal amp models have a saturation switch on every model, which does exactly what the Jose circuit does (similar to the option on the Placater). Also, a bright cap switch on every model (similar to the Derailed Ingrid). Why not add these to other models?

 

I'm shocked this hasn't come up more than it has. And I'm surprised my asking about it is so funny. 

I'm not shocked at all because modeling is all about digitally replicating the features and behaviors of the existing circuits in specific amps, not modifying them.  Line 6 does create their own modified versions under a different name sometimes, but it's really based on the level of interest in the user community for such things.  I keep a fairly close eye on IdeaScale every week and I don't think I've ever even seen a request there for the bright cap modification.  It may be the end all, be all to you, but to me it's kind of irrelevant.  The tools in the Helix are more than adequate to get the sound I need regardless of the style of song or the guitar I choose to play on it.  That's why I don't get too excited about it.  And quite frankly I could care less about what Fractal is doing.  I don't own one and have no need for one.  I've already got what I need.

[rd2rk]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:40 AM, ledvedder5150 said:

I'm shocked this hasn't come up more than it has. And I'm surprised my asking about it is so funny. 

 

It's funny because, as I noted in my initial reply, the topic has been beaten to death on both TGP and TGF and probably elsewhere.

Aren't you Ledvedder over on TGP? If you are then you know this to be true, so why are you claiming to be shocked?

[cruisinon2]

Stir,stir,stir the pot... gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily.... nobody gives a f*ck. ;)

 

Could be worse, gents... at least he's not bitching about the tuner. ;)

 

 

[themetallikid]

There's a tuner?!?!   

[drew_tnbd]

Authenticity is paramount, and I hope Line6 picks up an original 2203, and fully models it, and nails the tone that some of us want. I'm not tired of the conversation at all. I'm a bit tired of naysayers who think their usecases should be everyone else's as well.

[rd2rk]

On 11/8/2023 at 12:20 PM, drew_tnbd said:

Authenticity is paramount, and I hope Line6 picks up an original 2203, and fully models it, and nails the tone that some of us want. I'm not tired of the conversation at all. I'm a bit tired of naysayers who think their usecases should be everyone else's as well.

 

The point has been made. OVER and OVER and OVER again.

 

Authenticity may be paramount TO YOU, but that's YOUR use case which YOU seem to think should be EVERYONE'S use case, to the point of tedious repetitiousness to those of us who not only DGAF, but understand that snipping the bright cap was a very common mod because MANY users didn't think it sounded all that good.

 

Line6 has a stated policy of modeling things "warts and all". Certainly, whether or not you consider the bright cap to be a feature or a wart it SHOULD have been in there, but the horse is dead. L6 is aware, and if the "leaked" 3.7 feature list was real, then there will likely be a new 2203 WITH bright cap.

 

What bugged me about the OP was pretending that this issue was never raised before and essentially trolling this forum with that nonsense.

 

EVERYBODY KNOWS! LET IT GO!

[drew_tnbd]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:39 PM, rd2rk said:

 

The point has been made. OVER and OVER and OVER again.

 

Authenticity may be paramount TO YOU, but that's YOUR use case which YOU seem to think should be EVERYONE'S use case, to the point of tedious repetitiousness to those of us who not only DGAF, but understand that snipping the bright cap was a very common mod because MANY users didn't think it sounded all that good.

 

Line6 has a stated policy of modeling things "warts and all". Certainly, whether or not you consider the bright cap to be a feature or a wart it SHOULD have been in there, but the horse is dead. L6 is aware, and if the "leaked" 3.7 feature list was real, then there will likely be a new 2203 WITH bright cap.

 

What bugged me about the OP was pretending that this issue was never raised before and essentially trolling this forum with that nonsense.

 

EVERYBODY KNOWS! LET IT GO!

 

I've probably mentioned the 2203 about 3 times in the last 7 years, but ok. Pretending that I (or anyone else) thinks everyone's use case should be ours, just because we happen to want an amp model that hasn't been included since the launch of the problem, ... well... I mean, there is very little logic to that. But you can think what you want.

[cruisinon2]

On 11/8/2023 at 2:20 PM, drew_tnbd said:

Authenticity is paramount, and I hope Line6 picks up an original 2203, and fully models it, and nails the tone that some of us want. I'm not tired of the conversation at all. I'm a bit tired of naysayers who think their usecases should be everyone else's as well.

 

Can you not see the irony here? You're doing the very thing you've accused other of... authenticity might be first on your list, but that's hardly universal. Hell, I'd wager that 90% of those who own a modeler have never been in the same room with the "real" version of most of the amp models contained therein... but I digress.

 

You're also missing the point. Most people couldn't care less what anybody else's needs/ wants are. However, what does tend to chap a$$es, are those who endlessly lament that a device they chose to purchase is inferior because it doesn't have "Feature X', whilst a competitor's does. The solution is simple: Do the appropriate research before  you buy anything, and choose the device that best suits your needs. Problem solved. But to embark on an endless whining campaign after the fact is pointless, as there's a good chance that that you'll either never get what you want, or you'll wait for it for an extended period of time... and it all could have been avoided. I've yet to encounter the problem that's was solved through b1tching and finger pointing.

[drew_tnbd]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:53 PM, cruisinon2 said:

Can you not see the irony here? You're doing the very thing you've accused other of... authenticity might be first on your list, but that's hardly universal. Hell, I'd wager that 90% of those who own a modeler have never been in the same room with the "real" version of most of the amp models contained therein... but I digress.

 

No I'm not.

 

On 11/8/2023 at 7:53 PM, cruisinon2 said:

You're also missing the point.

 

No I'm not.

 

On 11/8/2023 at 7:53 PM, cruisinon2 said:

But to embark on an endless whining campaign after the fact is pointless

 

I haven't done that. I'm not the guy that r2d2 was referring to.

[rd2rk]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:03 PM, drew_tnbd said:

No I'm not.

 

 

No I'm not.

 

 

I haven't done that. I'm not the guy that r2d2 was referring to.

 

Yes, you are.

Yes you are.

No, you're not the OP or the OC campaigner from TGP/TGF. You're just piling on.

We're just saying that it's time to get off the pile. At least admit that there IS a pile!

 

AND

 

r2d2 is a robot in a movie who may or may not have had advanced Helix FX built in to it's voice circuits, but in any case was never part of this discussion.

Just sayin'...

 

EDIT - This whole thread is a pile...

 

[drew_tnbd]

On 11/8/2023 at 8:38 PM, rd2rk said:

 

Yes, you are.

Yes you are.

No, you're not the OP or the OC campaigner from TGP/TGF. You're just piling on.

We're just saying that it's time to get off the pile. At least admit that there IS a pile!

 

AND

 

r2d2 is a robot in a movie who may or may not have had advanced Helix FX built in to it's voice circuits, but in any case was never part of this discussion.

Just sayin'...

 

LMAO. "Piling on' ... yeah okay r2d2...

[PaulTBaker]

haha.... sometimes I am SO glad I have no idea of what you very smart and talented and (obviously hungry, snickers anyone:) are talking about!!!

[cruisinon2]

On 11/8/2023 at 3:03 PM, drew_tnbd said:

No I'm not.

 

 

No I'm not.

 

 

I haven't done that. I'm not the guy that r2d2 was referring to.

 

There's a negligible difference between being the first one in line to complain, and showing up later to echo the same sentiment. But you just go ahead and keep telling yourself otherwise...a powerful force, denial. Cheers!

[drew_tnbd]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:24 PM, cruisinon2 said:

 

There's a negligible difference between being the first one in line to complain, and showing up later to echo the same sentiment. But you just go ahead and keep telling yourself otherwise...a powerful force, denial. Cheers!

Ohhhhhh another gatekeeper, praaaiiisssseee beee!!!!!!

[cruisinon2]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:13 PM, drew_tnbd said:

Ohhhhhh another gatekeeper, praaaiiisssseee beee!!!!!!

 

Lol... nothing elevates one's status quite like labels and name calling. I understand though... sometimes the guy in the mirror isn't easy to look at. Please do let us know if you'd like some help climbing out of the hole you've dug for yourself. After all, what good is whining without an audience? Peace!

[ricstudioc]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:11 AM, cruisinon2 said:

Stir,stir,stir the pot... gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily.... nobody gives a f*ck. ;)

 

Could be worse, gents... at least he's not bitching about the tuner. ;)

 

 

There once was a man with a Helix

With the Marshalls, he just couldn't feel it

About one certain cap

He relentlessly yapped

And the rest of us... don't give a f*ck.

 

Haiku, anyone?

[Schmalle]

A JCM kicks azz

"Sure, we have that amp" they said

Wanna kick their azz

[arislaf]

Here it is. Try this. ANd seriously, it has the sound of the bright cap. https://line6.com/customtone/tone/6232510/

[Schmalle]

On 11/11/2023 at 6:25 PM, arislaf said:

Here it is. Try this. ANd seriously, it has the sound of the bright cap. https://line6.com/customtone/tone/6232510/

You may get the frequency response right. BUT: listen to the attack. There is a difference in attitude to a bright cap "crushing glass" distortion.

[arislaf]

And I though it was missing the the pushing air circling from the back of the canin to the tubes... 

[codamedia]

On 11/7/2023 at 9:50 AM, ledvedder5150 said:

Why don't any of the Marshall models have a bright cap setting like Fractal?

 

Probably because the amps themselves did not have that option.

Did Line 6 remove the bright caps from the amps they modeled? If not... they are there - as intended by Marshall from that era and model. 

[craiganderton]

According to Premier Guitar, all the bright cap does is let through more high frequencies going into the second gain stage. So, it seems to me you could emulate this effect with EQ. As to affecting the attack, the EQ would probably need to be inserted in front of the amp as opposed to after the amp.

 

If someone can provide a spectral analysis of the Fractal amp's frequency response with and without the bright cap settings enabled, I can probably figure out what kind of EQ settings would give a similar, if not identical, effect.

[willjrock]

On 11/8/2023 at 2:39 PM, rd2rk said:

if the "leaked" 3.7 feature list was real,

Id be interested to hear whats coming....or see the leak.  Will any of it make any difference in my life? Nope, but would be fun to see what we are expecting.

 

Very very serious question here though......will they be modeling any 2203 with a bright cap?  :D

[drew_tnbd]

lmao

[rd2rk]

Well PRAISE OUR FORD!

 

We FINALLY have an AUTHENTIC(?) 2203 with BRIGHT CAP!

It sounds EXACTLY like CRUSHED GLASS AZZ!

 

OK, maybe I just haven't figured out how to use it yet.

I'll spend some more time with it this weekend, maybe I'll have an epiphany.

 

 

 

[drew_tnbd]

On 11/17/2023 at 5:11 PM, rd2rk said:

maybe I'll have an epiphany.

 

Doubt it.

[datacommando]

On 11/17/2023 at 5:11 PM, rd2rk said:

We FINALLY have an AUTHENTIC(?) 2203 with BRIGHT CAP!

 

Well, it FINALLY made Mr Freeman happy! 

 

Here's what he said on his UChoob video comparison - "Helix 3.70 Brit 2203 vs Softube JMP 2203"

 

"Both models are gain and level matched, the new Brit 2203 is nigh-on identical to Softube JMP 2203. This makes Helix/HX/Native have one of the finest 2203 models available and I've tested and measured most of them. Well done Line 6."

 

:)

[James-F]

On 11/17/2023 at 7:47 PM, datacommando said:

Well, it FINALLY made Mr Freeman happy!

 

Very much!

 

 

[cruisinon2]

On 11/17/2023 at 12:11 PM, rd2rk said:

Well PRAISE OUR FORD!

 

We FINALLY have an AUTHENTIC(?) 2203 with BRIGHT CAP!

It sounds EXACTLY like CRUSHED GLASS AZZ!

 

 

I think "chewing on tinfoil whilst caught in a thunder storm" is closer...;)

[rd2rk]

I'm still hunting for the legendary "kerrang". Must be hanging around with Bigfoot...

[Paulzx]

Interesting thread to watch. Much of what has been said has been my experience also. I have a Fractal now running alongside my Helix, which I'm discussing over at TGP. I haven't used anything on the Helix update yet, it sounds promising though.

 

I will say though, after a long time trying I finally dialled in a Helix modded 2204 tone that I'm very pleased with. It may not solve the bright cap thing but there are some good tones achievable for those who want to put the effort in.

 

And.. the request for Marshall tones and amps should not be dismissed, its a huge area for high gain players. It's not a small thing!

[ann5]

I was interested in that