willjrock

Sheesh, IMO Thats one we shouldnt have to wait on.

I highly doubt that, but i could use a compliment today :P Next time a put a bit of effort into learning it a lil better. So, a pertinent question i guess - what did you think of the rhythm guitar tone? Care to comment on it? You cant hurt me, even if you thought it was the worst. IIRC it was the Whowatt 100 with BasketweaveG12M25s-421-ConeEdge-4in with my PRS directly into the Helix. Not a bad lil Marshall tone IMO.

Heres a tip to trade for a lesson ;) Often times i like to double up on a cab. I too like the Mandarin, and if im getting too many mids and highs whilst using the 421 mic, then by using the same cab twice, i can choose to load a different mic and even out any "imperfections". Sort of like layering 2 cabs together. Using one to offset the imperfections of the other. OK, now time for you to teach me :D How do you get so much editor information on your screen?? I get about half of what you get. Sure i can drag it, but my screen is maxxed out. Probably a windows setting. Thanks for taking the time to do the vid. I have the same guitar so it will be interesting to see how your choices translate/compare.

Still, Im not sure "visual confirmation" is necessary in your case. You should be able to do all of that with your ears pretty easily. I agree with the need for GR meters. They are essential actually, but more because there are times when the compressor should trigger subtly or be completely transparent. I may only want the compressor to fire in the choruses or even 2 or 3 times thru - out the song. I may want it on the entire time but not be heard. Both of which are impossible to do without metering.

Yep i'll take care of it saturday if you dont already have something else. Messed with some tones for it today. Very early marshally sounding, which with the right IR, Helix does very well IMHO.

i saw that after i said it. im a dummy. I'll do it for you saturday if you still need it. No $$$ required.

Im shocked there isnt anything on free guitar backing tracks . com (i checked) Did you get your track? i could whip this together pretty easily for you.

I use TH3. Tried all of them plenty of times including sgear. one thing ive never taken the time to do but always wanted to try was using TH3 or sgear or whatever as a preamp. sgear > interface out > hardware power amp > hardware cab

The IRs are far more responsible for any good tone you may have been getting than anything the Helix was doing. Thats where the biggest portion of the credit goes.

Although i both appreciate and respect your efforts you are making some assumptions, which in turn are adding a lot of needless clutter to the thread. Ive been producing records for over 30 years, in the music industry for nearly 17, and working exclusively with signed artists for the last 8, (let alone the fact that ive been playing guitar for 39 years) so im well aware of frequency interaction, whether it be live or to tape.

Im assuming that this isnt your first gig and youve never had a problem with any other "amp" (or probably modeler) youve tried? :) You bought a Helix hoping to upgrade your situation a bit and along with the Helix came this problem? The Helix at times has a very poor transient response. The pick attack is undefined or mushy with a large portion of the amps.. Especially for distorted sounds. Not as bad for the half driven sounds. If you search the forum you'll find posts similar to yours..."i feel like im playing behind the band" ect.... Im betting this is where some of your problem lies. It may come down to finding the right amp cab or IR combination, but without knowing the style of music, the sound you are mostly going for, the block choices you are making, it would all be just a guess at best. I doubt its an EQ thing. Unless you have other instruments in your band that sounds similar to your guitar, the guitar should be the easiest thing to make cut through the mix. There is nothing else on stage that resembles its sound even remotely.

Oh im not saying its ok for the hardware to fail under any circumstances. It should almost never happen unless a person is being downright abusive. You should be able to drop a beer bottle on it, snap the knob off of it, and have it still function. Even if you have to change patches with a pair of needle nose pliers. All im saying is that the only time i edit on the helix itself is when im forced to.

Man....If a guy is jamming this unit in his studio a lot, i cant see how one would want to use anything BUT the editor. Especially if one owns the floor model. Not only would it be much less stress on the back bones, but the editor allows you to skip over many steps not possible on the unit itself...so its faster. I almost never touch my Helix, but not because im afraid its going to break. Because its too much hassle to use the unit.

It proves that with all else being equal the ax8 amps sound more articulate than the Helix amps. Much, much less fizz, and a more focused low end. It proves that ax8 amp sims are closer to mix ready, right off the bat, which means less time tweaking. Its even easier/faster to get a good sound with ax8. I think we were all attracted to modelers initially, because with very little fuss, its easy to get a good sound. Who wants to spend their time trying to attenuate fizz - and thats exactly what i do with helix....and what soooo many others here have complained about here. You wont see nearly as many of those types of posts at the fractal forum. Not necessarily. The fizz isnt going to disappear on its own. You could start with critical EQ cuts, which is not going to fix it, or darker cab sounds. All of which leads to a darker sound. The best you can do is attenuate or hide it. How could 2 sounds be identical if one displays obvious high end artifacts? I do agree with some part of your "not sure what it proves" point, because to me this comes off a bit, as a sales pitch or pumping ax8's tires over the helix. Notice how the Helix clips were always second? It may have been done to intensify the fizz. I dont believe much of anything until ive experienced it in person, but it does give me reason to investigate further. It IS what you said. You dont get it. We'll leave it at that. How exactly does it "make stereo a pain"? Im dying to hear this one.

Helix owner here, in this video the ax8 absolutely obliterates the Helix. Side by side the fizz and thin sound sooooo many people complain about are clearly evident.

There you have it. Two dudes jammed on their rigs one saturday afternoon, proclaimed them to be equal, all the Helix owners jumped in and agreed, and its finally settled. Please guys before announcing to everyone that youve coped the "holy grail tone" at least put up some audio, so the rest of us can form our opinion. Otherwise the proclamations are pretty meaningless....Speaking from a standpoint of sonics. Obviously. Look man, you have to have an idea of what you like. You dont just blaze thru every IR in the bag hoping to nail it. If you know you like a Mesa cab with v30's and a 121, and youre wasting energy with 100 other IRs, you only have yourself to blame. Yeah if youve never owned a cabinet you like, dont know anything about the speakers in them, or never mic'd it before, then i can see how one may feel the need to try every IR they get their hands on...but to say "youre not sold" on a near identical re-creation of some of the most sought after guitar cabinets in the history of music, sounds extremely uninformed.

See the pod for me sounded pretty good through about anything i plugged it into. The one thing about that thing was that it allowed for rough "calibration" depending on what you were running it into. Holding the ^ v arrows as it powered up and the letters A,B,C,D flashed. You chose C or whatever if you were going into a a combo amp, maybe A if you were running into a power amp. Ive always alleged that the very lack of this option on the Helix might be one reason for the inconsistency.

To sound right i agree, but there seems to be a pretty large disparity between systems with the helix. Hence the thread....as well as the abundant reports. Even the way a set of phones fits your head can affect the perceived tone (mix decisions for sure) but going from pleasing to annoying is peculiar. My personal experience is that i find Helix native cabs downright unbearable, even on my working system that is a mission critical system totaling out to about $14.000, all the way through my cheap and mid priced nearfield monitors. Word on the street is that certain FRFRs maximize the Helix sonics, but again, it shouldnt be that difficult. Ive never had trouble with a POD.

Use two cab blocks. choose the single option each time you add a cab.. Split them into 2 paths. Where the paths come back together, after the cabs, click right on the merge point and drag that down. This creates a separate out for each cab. Click on the output blocks(the arrows) and pan to taste.

This is too bad. You shouldnt need the "perfect" monitoring device for a $1500 unit to sound good. It was never an issue with my POD or any of my other modelers. Helix has a very small sweet spot.

Just give me more cabinets with better control and you wont hear another peep. If line 6 cared at all about the sound of this thing, they would take into account that the cabinet, speakers, mic, and mic placement are the biggest part of a guitar sound, and that affording users the tools to maximize their sonics, only makes for a better product.....but what do we get? a cab section that is merely adequate....sub par by todays standars.

One thing is for sure, he can play all the same licks ive been hearing for the last 20 years :)

Hey thanks for the heads up. Im not a fan of the helix native cabs at all, but this is one of the better native cab patches ive heard. Its a shame thatits only given 3 stars. I prob would have skipped it lol. When i rate a patch, im also taking into account how easily i can shape it into my specific needs. Hardly ever are they "spot on" for anyone , but if it only takes a second to tweak it and get something i like a little more for myself, then i'll add a star. The most important part is how it sits in the mix or in a band setting and im sure guys dont take that into account before rating, so its unfortunate, but it makes the rating system poor, and nearly meaningless. Your post meant a lot more to me.

Heres another clip for ya man. Its an Uberschall with an IR. Its not a tone Id go for but you had mentioned using that sim so whatever. Its not a sim i care for much. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26654830/UC/uberschall.wav Reason for this is, and i say this with the utmost respect, is that i believe your/ear brain has drifted a bit, from what you think is a good sound. It can happen easily with sooooo many sonic choices, and even though it may sound like im being condescending, its happened to me plenty of times. It sounds like you are adding a lot of treble, trying to achieve a certain tone when maybe you should be looking at different amps/cabs. No matter how much EQ you use a Marshall will never sound likje a boogie, nor will a Bogner sound like a 5150 ECT. Compare my clip to yours, and how much rounder and less trebley my sound is, but how it still fits into the mix. Ive mixed lots and lots of guitar oriented tracks over the last 30 years, and the first thing i would be doing to your "best tone" (the patient riff) track would be looking for ways to warm it up. edit: BTW on a side note - that bass track is the Helix with a 6string guitar and a pitch shifter. Again, not what id go for but one of the more tolerable bass tones ive manufactured in this fashion.

Helix DOES do good high gain tones. Admittedly, Its far too much work trying to tune them in, and you'll get MAYBE one 'usable" tone with the stock cabs....but if you fritter around long enough....with some IRs....you can come up with some good stuff. A lot high gain tones you hear on albums, are being front-ended with an overdrive or distortion effect, so dont make the mistake of trying to pull it all out of the amp.