So are we HD500 users second class costumers?

[Dshow]

I was wonderig why Line 6 puts out firmware and model packs for HD500x first and not wait until they are ready for all devices? I mean they have already planed to do so when they announced their release. So it is done on purpose.

[glenneke]

Yeah,  they also charge for each model pack too. For me the price is not a problem, but as a life time customer that owns the podxt and the x3 and now the hd for a few years i'am ashamed in theire places. Good work line 6 keep the big bussines up.. you get there!!!

[PaulJam]

You got it all wrong.

The actual second class customers are currently beta testing the new firmware for us!

;)

[pianoguyy]

There are a lot more 500 users than there are 500x users. So, you really can think of it as beta testing.

 

Testing product. Testing servers.

Those poor x users, lol. 

[Dshow]

Yeah,  they also charge for each model pack too. For me the price is not a problem, but as a life time customer that owns the podxt and the x3 and now the hd for a few years i'am ashamed in theire places. Good work line 6 keep the big bussines up.. you get there!!!

Yeah I'm a Line 6 user since the been. It's not a big problem for me I'm waiting for others to try the model packs anyway. If there's something I like maybe I'll buy otherwise not. Still satisified with my HD500 though.

[Dshow]

@PaulJam and @pianoguyy

 

Yeah so actually we should be luck about it ;-)

[TheRealZap]

they charged for model packs on XT and pod farm too... nothing new.. and not a required purchase.

 

also the hd500 is obviously just different enough to need it's own version of the firmware...

someone had to be first.... of course they are going to choose their current in production model...

the important thing here is YES they are creating the update for the 500 users as well...

2 weeks isn't very long to wait....

especially when you were kind enough to suggest making everyone wait until they were all ready.

[maxnew40]

I have the HD500 also, but I would not have rushed out and updated firmware until a month or so after release. There needs to be a little time for any bugs to get worked out.

 

-Max

[Leftzilla]

As Zap stated they charged for model packs on the XT at the same price point.  Maybe I am reading more negativity into your post than you intended but claiming Line 6 is treating you like a second class citizen because they updated the current production line first?  I could see your point if they weren't going to update the HD500 series at all but a two week wait doesn't seem that bad and allows the the X community to find any bugs in the build.  

[smrybacki]

As Zap stated they charged for model packs on the XT at the same price point.  Maybe I am reading more negativity into your post than you intended but claiming Line 6 is treating you like a second class citizen because they updated the current production line first?  I could see your point if they weren't going to update the HD500 series at all but a two week wait doesn't seem that bad and allows the the X community to find any bugs in the build.  

To be fair, the day Line6 announced the 500X is the day they introduced a sense of substandardness to the HD500 owners out there, intentionally or not.  It's that way with everything (it seems) these days.  You buy the latest and greatest HD television only to find out (often by the time you get it hooked up!) they have released another upgraded whiz-bang model a the same cost.  You can't help but feel cheated at some level because you spent the same money as the guy getting a better (more capable) model.  So I totally understand where the OP is coming from here and I've felt the same way, although I don't hold it against Line6 as this is a fairly normal business practice these days.

 

As for the bugs, then I'd say the same differences that caused the delay would make bugs in the X line irrelevant to the HD500 series by virtue of DSP architectural differences personally.

[Dshow]

I know that the model packs for the XT had to be paid because I owned all PODs before the HD500 too. I just was saying that they could wait and put out all at ones, thats all. And as for the 500x for me isn't a real sucessor of the 500 - Just the same unit with a little more power and differnt knobs.

[TheBunn]

Yeah I have a HD Pro. I only realized that 2.6 was not available once I went to update. I'm pretty disappointed. It might be the final nail for me... 

[TheRealZap]

just stay away from the hammer... for 2 weeks....

damn... how many times does it have to be said... the update for the 500 (+hd pro and bean) is coming.

 

Yeah I have a HD Pro. I only realized that 2.6 was not available once I went to update. I'm pretty disappointed. It might be the final nail for me... 

[smrybacki]

We HD500 people are just Red Headed Step Children...

[Palico]

I'm just going to take a guess here and think L6 was likely just getting it out as soon as possible. They don't have any manuals etc... on the new bundles yet so it supports the idea just trying to get it to market as quickly as possible.

 

I'm the lucky one this time with 500x and yea I got my bundles, but I've been in your boat before with the older hardware. Probably will be there again after a while.

[stevevnicks]

Quote

 

"HD500 series by virtue of DSP architectural differences personally"

 

there are no architectural differences they use the same gen.3 ADI  SHARC ADSP 21369 the only difference is the HD500x runs 67Mhz faster

 

HD500 333Mhz 666 MAC's (max) 333Mips (max) ADSP 21369 KSWZ-2A (333MHz) no longer made

 

HD500X 400Mhz 800 MAC's (max) 400Mips (max) ADSP 21369 KSWZ-6A (400Mhz) still in production

 

 

http://www.analog.com/en/products/processors-dsp/sharc/adsp-21369.html#product-overview HD500X DSP

 

so thats not the reason. 

[Brazzy]

I have the HD500 also, but I would not have rushed out and updated firmware until a month or so after release. There needs to be a little time for any bugs to get worked out.

 

-Max

 

So true. We all know it's so new it needs a good testing period before it's proven.

[stevevnicks]

I don't believe or find it hard to, so are Line 6 only a small company and only have the resources to work on one firmware at a time ? even though they both use the same chip architecture. ? seems odd to me.

[maxnew40]

I work in software development and I don't find this odd at all. The development team that writes the code is probably not huge and the testing team needs time to test and are probably not huge either. They probably just don't have a large enough team to do all the work concurrently.

 

-Max

[stevevnicks]

ah ok sounds fair enough, so in that case, it would be best to release it for the product that's still in production first.

[FrozenOzone]

IMHO...  Line 6 did not communicate this upgrade very well.   What is bugging me is when I keep hearing/reading from the experts that you should have known the upgrade path.(X before non X users) Really?  What if I don't visit the forums very often?  Am I expected to know this right when I start reading the forum?  Even if you go to the Line 6 website and click on the 2.6 upgrade it goes to the HD 500X adn ProX webpage.  Not the upgrade location.Their web developers are very lazy or nobody is managing this project?

 

Heck they have even announce or sticky the FirehawkFX or what ever it is at the top of this forum along with other old announcements.  Maybe they should put something there where you should be looking.  And maybe while they are at it fix their website when you click the 2.6 firmware on the front page go to the firmware page or another landing page explaining to the users what is going on?

 

We have 2 PODHD 500's and a POD 500X in my band and neither of my band members go to the forum at all.

[radatats]

[Brazzy]

Funny pic inserted here

Dat-a-Boy rads. Way to make use of that cool image. LOL

 

I try to keep up with what's going on in the forum but recently I've been trying to rid my computer of Malware and Trojans. L😲L. The funny thing is my laptop ain't been right since I fixed someone else's laptop. AAAARGH or was I actually successful in fixing it L💩L

[Matt_Brown]

On the subject of 2nd class users if you have a 'Dream Rig', putting all your money in Line 6 gear, then you can't use the Global EQ functionality over L6 Link. I don't remember them advertising THAT before going live!

 

I too have worked in an IT environment and do realise that you can't always buikd what you set out to do - we used to refer to things as 'features' rather than problems! - but I'd ask Line 6 to do what it can to fix what can hopefully be teething err, features....

 

peace people...

[leesteel]

On the subject of 2nd class users if you have a 'Dream Rig', putting all your money in Line 6 gear, then you can't use the Global EQ functionality over L6 Link. I don't remember them advertising THAT before going live!

 

I too have worked in an IT environment and do realise that you can't always buikd what you set out to do - we used to refer to things as 'features' rather than problems! - but I'd ask Line 6 to do what it can to fix what can hopefully be teething err, features....

 

peace people...

 

I understand the concept of "Dream Rig" however, for me, having a Variax and the 500x is as dreamy as it gets. The amp is only dreamy for you and the 5 people sitting in front of your amp. If the dream isn't being faithfully replicated through the pa, in the words of a famous songwriter, "the dream is gone"!

[cruisinon2]

No company on earth exists to serve the interests of their customers, period...no matter how eloquently the mission statement insists otherwise. It would be nice, but it doesn't happen. The goal is profitability. We could argue all day long about the best way to achieve that, and there is certainly an argument for not pi$$ing off the people who's money you want, but the reality is, no matter what L6 does, somebody will disapprove, claim offense, and complain that they've been spat upon in the process...especially in this delightful age of perpetual righteous indignation we're all currently enjoying. Upsetting oneself over things that don't really matter is almost a sport at this point, but I digress.

Taking any corporate decision personally is just plain silly...you know why? Because whomever made that decision wasn't thinking about you when they made it...guaranteed. They were thinking about money, and/or answering to a boss who was thinking about money. There's a name for it...capitalism, and it sure as hell isn't personal.

Does anyone really think that L6 has a Dept. of Evil Villains, twisting their mustaches, trying to find the best way to tie all HD500 owners to the metaphorical train tracks? What would be the point? If it's not serving the bottom line, it's not happening.

[phil_m]

Does anyone really think that L6 has a Dept. of Evil Villains, twisting their mustaches, trying to find the best way to tie all HD500 owners to the metaphorical train tracks? What would be the point? If it's not serving the bottom line, it's not happening.

 

I assumed that was the department that Digital Igloo oversees...

[Palico]

I too have worked in an IT environment and do realise that you can't always buikd what you set out to do - we used to refer to things as 'features' rather than problems!

 

Good ole "UnDocumented Features"........ otherwise known as bugs we don't wanna fix.

[smrybacki]

Does anyone really think that L6 has a Dept. of Evil Villains, twisting their mustaches, trying to find the best way to tie all HD500 owners to the metaphorical train tracks? What would be the point? If it's not serving the bottom line, it's not happening.

You mean they don't?  Are you serious Clark?

[cruisinon2]

Are you serious Clark?

 

"That there's an R-V"... :lol:

[smrybacki]

"That there's an R-V"... :lol:

If I woke up tomorrow with my head sewn to the carpet, I couldn't be more surprised.

[brue58ski]

So let me get this straight. Line 6 had the upgrade and model packs ready to go now for the HD500X NOW and instead of letting the HD500X owners have it now they should have waited two weeks (or whatever it will be) so that everyone could have gotten it at the same time? Just so you can feel better about yourself and how Line 6 thinks about you? That would be the only reason to not offer it now to the HD500X owners. I can assure of one thing, they didn't sit around thinking how can we make the HD500 owners regret not getting an HD500X or whatever other conspiracy you might  be coming up with.

 

I mean do you really think they should have said to themselves....

 

"Well, we have the upgrade and model packs ready for the HD500X but we don't want to injure to other HD owner's egos and self worth so we'll deny the HD500X people the upgrade and model packs until everyone can have one. Even though they are ready now."

 

C'mon. They said awhile ago that the upgrade and model packs would be ready for the HD500X BEFORE they would be ready for the other HD500's. Not because they want to make you feel like a second class citizen but because that was the schedule to get it done given the recources that they have. Maybe they should have had it ready for the product they have discontinued and given it to them first? Thereby making HD500X people feel like second class citizens.

Of course not.

They had the HD500X upgrade and model packs ready first and put it out as soon as they could, instead of waiting unitl the other upgrade was ready just to keep a few people from whining. It is amazing to me that people always find a way to feel sorry for themselves, even though from a pragmatic, black and white point of view, they did exaclty what they had to do. I know they would have released both upgrades at the same if it was possible...It wasn't. If that's what makes you feel like a second class citizen then you may be a little too sensitive for the cold hard world of equipment upgrading and might want to consider getting out of it.

[NinoScholz]

To be fair, the day Line6 announced the 500X is the day they introduced a sense of substandardness to the HD500 owners out there, intentionally or not.  It's that way with everything (it seems) these days.  

 

As for the bugs, then I'd say the same differences that caused the delay would make bugs in the X line irrelevant to the HD500 series by virtue of DSP architectural differences personally.

 

And on the same point, those that are just interested in having a box that does what they need it to aren't bothered that they released a new box with updated footswitches and more DSP (which I pretty much never run out of). It was not enough of a hardware update to get that inferiority complex going for me. Thankfully, we'll get the update too so basically everything is good!

[NinoScholz]

Quote

 

 

 

there are no architectural differences they use the same gen.3 ADI  SHARC ADSP 21369 the only difference is the HD500x runs 67Mhz faster

 

HD500 333Mhz 666 MAC's (max) 333Mips (max) ADSP 21369 KSWZ-2A (333MHz) no longer made

 

HD500X 400Mhz 800 MAC's (max) 400Mips (max) ADSP 21369 KSWZ-6A (400Mhz) still in production

 

 

 

Interesting that the clock speed and MIPS are identical, so these processors spit out one instruction for every tic of the processor. Sounds reasonable, but i was always under the impression most modern processors don't line up this way. 

[RipperShred]

So we've got L6 experts saying two weeks now? Is that official in any way? What happened to "a week OR two"? So is it set in stone that April 14th is the best-case release date scenario for Legacy owners? I've been optimistically checking the forum and site daily in the hopes that it might be ahead of schedule, not lagging behind it. :P

[TheRealZap]

Certainly not official just repeating the last official public statement.

[RipperShred]

Guess I'm not checking often enough, I thought the last announcement was a week or two, not definitively two weeks. If it is so be it, I'd just like to know what timetable I'm working off of here.

[stevevnicks]

Quote

 

"Interesting that the clock speed and MIPS are identical, so these processors spit out one instruction for every tic of the processor. Sounds reasonable, but i was always under the impression most modern processors don't line up this way."

 

the New ADI SHARC Gen4 ADSP 21469 runs at only 450Mhz and hits 1600 MAC's (Max) and 800 Mips (max) which I think would be quite an respectable upgrade

 

if Line 6 uses an ADI SHARC ADSP again for there DSP if/when they release a new type of pod HD or even UHD to upgrade the HD500X, the new gen 4 ADSP would cost the same I think as the current ADSP the HD500X uses so would be a grate upgrade at he same kind of price range product.

 

although the Gen4 ADSP is probs based on a newer SHARC architecture with newer instruction sets .. don't quote me on it though lol

 

But I feel the path line 6 will choose is stick with the HD500X until ADI stops production of the ADSP 21369 400Mhz Chip, probs keep going for maybe another 1 year maybe 2 at push before production ends, either way ADI's 21369 gen 3 chip (at some point) has been/going to be replaced by the newer Gen 4 series chips, which ADI already has in production and sells, current price around £21 per chip if I remember correctly and probs a lot cheaper when bought in large batchments.

 

which I think would mean for Line 6 a completely new design main PCB for the newer chip, that would probs mean a new product .. just guessing though ...

 

 

better add

 

these are just my thoughts, not saying they are fact.

[joel_brown]

Like 5-year-olds on Christmas Eve...  Waaaah, why can't I have it now ?  Now I remember why I didn't have kids.  That and I could retire early so I can play more guitar.

[stevevnicks]

PMSL :)