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ScottAyers

Reasons Why I Returned My Helix

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I'm posting this not to slam Line 6. But to give them some honest feedback.

 

I bought the Helix recently because of all positive word of mouth about it on the web.

I really liked the UI design. But I just could not get the kind of sound I wanted from it.

No matter what I did. The sound was always a little bit muddy. And it sounded like I was playing behind the band.

I wrote several custom patches, and I tried every option it had (EQ, compression, etc.) But it just didn't have the "presence" I wanted.

It always felt "Back of the Band". It lacked a cutting edge to my ears.

 

I have been using a Digitech GNX4 pedal for about 10 years. And while most of it is total garbage. I do have one custom Joe Satriani sounding style patch that makes the thing sound pretty darn good. Although a little bit thin sounding.

I spent $400.00 for this pedal roughly 10 years ago. And I'm basically only getting one good usable sound from it.

I was hoping the Helix would give me a catalog of other sounds to use. Plus a better "Satch" sound than my GNX4 pedal.

But I just did not like the bottom heavy and muddy sounds from the Helix.

 

On my GNX4. I can switch quickly and easily between wah & pitch shifter with the toe switch using the on board rocker pedal. And I use that all of the time.

On the Helix. You can't do that. You have to play this little game of disable the wah and enable the pitch shifter thing. That was very disappointing to me.

 

With my GNX4. If I lower the volume knob on my guitar to about half. As I pick the strings. The notes start off muted and then slowly ramp up. As If I'm rolling the volume knob up by hand. Eddie Van Halen uses this volume knob rolling technique very heavily in his solos.

This happens because the GNX is cheaper. But I have grown to really love this behavior. It makes soft songs sound so beautiful. And I use it constantly. And this behavior is gone on the Helix. Because the Helix is more accurate.

I would severely miss this behavior if it was taken away from me. Maybe this "auto volume roll up" can be built in as an effect?

 

 

In summation:

-The Helix has a thicker, muddier, sound than what I wanted. It's not really bad. But it lacked a cutting edge to my ears.

-My old GNX4 has a thinner, cheaper, sound than what I want. But I love the way the pedal works (even if it's inaccurate).

-The Helix removes some of the GNX4 behaviors that I love and use all of the time.

-The selection of amps was a bit limited compared to other pedals

 

If the Helix cost around $600.00. I probably would not have returned it.

I would have kept it and tried to mix it with my GNX4 pedal to try and get that middle sound that I'm looking for.

But at a price tag of $1500.00. It made no sense to keep it.

 

Please take these things as constructive feedback. And not criticisms. The unit just wasn't quite what I wanted or hoped it would be.

I wasn't turned off by it. But I wasn't $1500.00 worth of turned on by it either. ;-)

But it wasn't too far from the target. I actually thought about keeping it for a while.

I can't wait to try out the next version.

 

 

-ScottA

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Good luck with your GNX4 then :-)

 

Just wondering: Why would you have kept the Helix if it was 660 $ if you don't like it? I mean everybody has different demands and tasts and I would say after 10 years of yousing the GNX4 your ears are used to the sound of it. If it's that what you like keep it, there is no reason to move on.

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If the Dodge Viper cost me 2,000.00 id probably keep it, running or not... And thats not a valid point for keeping something that doesn't work good for me either.

 

What I am wondering is just how long did you play with Helix? You generalized that every patch sounded muddy- is this correct? Because sometimes it takes time to construct good tones to suite "you". We are all different, we all hear differently, and from one day to the next we like certain things one way and then change its sound tomorrow. I do this all the time on my KPA, and thats normal. Expect to spend time on a passion, or it isn't one.

 

 

If the Helix cost around $600.00. I probably would not have returned it.

 

 

 

-ScottA

 

So how long did you have Helix? 2 weeks? A month? 2 months? I don't think you did yourself or Helix justice if thats the case. Hey its your decision as always to keep or return stuff, but blaming this muddy tone you heard on its costs,  and how it could be overlooked by a cheaper price, means to me you were not serious about tone in the 1st place. 

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I get damn good sounds out of the POD HD500x, so everybody should get porn-sounds out of the Helix (and I´m really sure it can be done easier than using the HD).

But if one would not spend enough efforts in learning and tweaking Helix is probably not the right gear for him  :(

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when a piece of gear is not working for you the best thing is always to find something else that does.  However, perhaps it would have been better if you had shared your difficulties with the group before returning it as there are a boatload of people using the Helix with a wide range of different gear that would have been glad to help you work out the issues.  Regardless, hope you find what you are looking for...

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This reminds me of what a friend of mine had observed - that we buy new gear and try to make it sound like our old gear. It's often true.

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Hi,

 

While most people are being cool.

I just want to say that I will not respond to people being rude. Or saying trollish things like I didn't know how to use it.

If you guys love it the way it is. That's cool. But it didn't quite make it for me. I guess I'm pickier than most people.

Don't let that spoil your enjoyment. My needs are just not the same as your needs.

 

I will say once again that the Helix is not "bad". I almost kept it.

If it was cheaper. I probably would have kept it, and worked around the things that I didnt like. Using other equipment.

But it just had too many negatives (see the first post) for me to justify spending the equivelent of an entire years Gas & Electric bill.

If I spend that kind of money on a guitar pedal. It has to do everything I want. And sound like I want, without the help of more equipment.

 

I am hoping that by telling them what I didn't like. They can possibly change it, or add to it, in the next version.

I want to own one. I want it to work and sound so good that I can't even consider returning it.

I rarely buy the first version of anything. And I think this one is suffering from version1 syndrome.

I'm still a potential customer. When the next one rolls out I will be very excited to try it, and hopefully keep it.

 

-ScottA

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This reminds me of what a friend of mine had observed - that we buy new gear and try to make it sound like our old gear. It's often true.

So true... :D

 

I did that in every POD upgrade, and always ended up starting from scratch, because the characters of the different modeling engines were different.

Same happened with the Helix, of course, I was trying to replicate the patches I have on the HD500 (and concentrate them, since I can now have in one what used to take two or three paches), and started from the same amp models with the parameters set to the same values... suffice to say it didn't work...

Once I accepted I had to do most of the work again, and looked for new recipes and approaches, good sounds started to flow.

 

Plus, there are models, like the jet fuzz or the vocoder (yes, I use it), which are not present in Helix at this time (maybe never will) and that makes me look for alternatives (except with the vocoder, that I can't replace with anything else)

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Hi,

 

While most people are being cool.

I just want to say that I will not respond to people being rude. Or saying trollish things like I didn't know how to use it.

 

Scott, Once again, you didn't mention how long you had it? I ask because Im wondering if you had it long enough to know anything about what it can or can't do, thus causing some to think that it just isn't worth the effort... And if cost was the only issue (which you said you would have kept it if it was cheaper?) , then it wasn't a "tone" issue was it?. Thats what I was trying to clarify here. I wasn't trying to be rude to you. Blunt maybe, but not rude.  ;)

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Hi spikey,

I had it for about two weeks. Which was more than enough time for me to evaluate it properly.

You might think that's not enough time. But I'm the kind of person that dives deep into new things and gets to know it very quickly. Faster than most.

You'll just have to trust me on that. I have a known reputation of being an extemely fast learner. And I went through the unity very thouroughly.

I also watched a lot of videos before buying it too. I knew a lot about how to use and edit it before I bought it.

 

Even though I have not bought a pedal in roughly 10 years. I'm familiar with the routine.

They can't be judged on the factory presets. They always require a ton of user tweaking to get them to sound good.

That said. Even after a lot of tweaking. I just wasn't that happy with the sounds.

 

The sound was just one part of it though.

I didn't like the way the wah<-->pitch shift worked. And I lost my auto volume ramping behaviour.

Combine these things with the $1500.00 price tag. And what I had was a clear choice to return it.

It just wasn't for me. But it could be with some changes. So I'm going to wait and see what the next version brings. If there is a next version.

 

 

-ScottA

 

*I also apprieciate that the company allowed me to post this.

I don't buy products from companies that censor negative reviews of their products. Allowing me to post this is a sign that Line 6 is a good company. And can handle a little negative feeback. I hope I can be a customer eventually.

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I'm posting this not to slam Line 6. But to give them some honest feedback.

 

I bought the Helix recently because of all positive word of mouth about it on the web.

I really liked the UI design. But I just could not get the kind of sound I wanted from it.

No matter what I did. The sound was always a little bit muddy. And it sounded like I was playing behind the band.

The most important question - what kind of speakers / amp / monitoring system did you use?

 

I am going through a variety of high powered L6 FRFR speakers, and still struggling to cut through the mix when I jam with my band at our rehearsal spot on Fridays - the other guitarist uses a 40watt Fender tweed tube amp. I have difficulty being loud enough using a 1500 watt Firehawk1500 amp... I can get there; I just still get overpowered when the drums, bass and the tube amp are all really playing 'loud'. For the majority of the time, the FH1500 keeps up just fine.

 

I also use a pair of L3m at home - 1400 watts each, but overkill for stage volume - too much bass (the bottom 10" speaker in each L3m is crossover for bass/sub freq). Also use a pair of L2t; quite likely the lightest to loudest ratio, and with Helix, sound incredible.

 

I also get excellent tube amp tone without having to jump through hoops by L6Linking Helix to my DT25. Stack the combo on the 1x12 extension cab; disable all the DT amp/cab/mic models, and tweak the topo. That rig *screams*. The DT25 is loud, really loud - and holds up quite well paired with Helix.

 

Quite frankly, I would likely put the Fh1500 in front of me if I needed a stage monitor, and the DT25 behind as a regular amp backline.

 

It does bring back that old comparison between usable tube watts and usable solid state watts... 40 watt tube through a 12" speaker has a strong mid focus, and emulating that to hear yourself better on stage is wise; even though you may want to *not* do that for the main mix, or recording, or etc.

 

Anyhow, I will leave you with this - keep searching! It's all good, no one is here to refute your choice - that's yours and yours alone!

To keep you inspired, here is an awesome video for Glenn DeLaune's Joe Satriani custom artist Helix Patch.

 

Cheers Brother!

:)

 

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Has Glenn emailed the Satriani patch yet? I have all the other artist patches he's done so far through SRV, etc. Just sent me the latest versions a few days ago, but no Satch patch yet...

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Well, there's a lot to be said for getting the tone that works for you, how you play and the style of music you play. There are a lot of times when a big full guitar sound is not the appropriate sound. Also, every modeler has its own innate qualities that may or may not for some. And that's ok.

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Hey Scott.   I'm not sure why you even bothered to post, other than you're just really disappointed and would like some closure, I would be too.  But to the point, what you described sounds like phase cancellation.  You may have had a faulty unit.    I'm guessing if you are like most of us, you listened to lots of clips and heard sounds you liked which caused you to buy the Helix in the first place. Did your unit sound like all the clips you heard?  I'm guessing not.

 

Taken from a couple of sources that have more clear descriptions.. "The relationship in time of two or more waveforms with the same or harmonically related periods gives us a measurement of their phasedifference. Phase cancellation occurs when two signals of the same frequency are out of phase with each other resulting in a net reduction in the overall level of the combined signal."  and  "Phase and phase difference is a real-world issue in areas such as electrical wiring of audio equipment, signal path, and microphone placement during the recording process. Phase reversal can be a serious compromise of sound quality or a special effect affecting the perceived spaciousness of the sound depending on the context of its occurrence."

 

I lot of people think audio cancellation can only happen with microphones or complete miswiring.  But it can actually happen WITHIN audio gear via a faulty component.  In older gear filter caps and diodes could and did cause it.  

 

We don't know what kind of speakers or headphones you were testing with.  That certainly is a factor but as you seem to have been in the game for awhile, I'll assume you tried a few different things to rule those out.  The sentence that got me was you said "the sound was always."   The way Helix is designed, there are very few components (for lack of a better term) that apply even most of the time and fewer fit into the always category.  

 

Anyway.. I think you had a faulty unit based on the info you have supplied. 

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...On my GNX4. I can switch quickly and easily between wah & pitch shifter with the toe switch using the on board rocker pedal. And I use that all of the time.

On the Helix. You can't do that. You have to play this little game of disable the wah and enable the pitch shifter thing. That was very disappointing to me...

 

I think you COULD have gotten the sounds you wanted out of Helix if you had spent more time with it, but life is too short for that if you have something that makes you happen.

 

That said, I'm pretty sure you could have done the switching thing I quoted above with Helix, no problem.

 

Glad you have something that works for you, though.

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@ L6 staff and experts

 

I wonder if the returned devices are then sold as brand new and never used, therefore exactly at the same price..

because if that were the case I would find it unacceptable..

 

What actually happens in these cases?

 

Often stuff is sent back to the manufacturer and "refurbished" (which sometimes means nothing) and sold as new if it's still new, or stores will sell them as open box. I'm sure that's up to retailers mostly, not the manufacturers.

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Hey Scott.   I'm not sure why you even bothered to post, other than you're just really disappointed and would like some closure, I would be too.

 

No. This is important. I posted this thread because I wanted to give them specific reasons why I returned it.

If I just returned it and said nothing. They would not know why I returned it.

It's important to me that they improve it. Because I want to own one eventually.

 

Thank you very much for posting that YouTube video with the Satch patch. Because it illustrates exactly what I meant when I said "It sounds like I'm behind the band".

The main source of this is coming from the reverbs in the unit. To my ears it sounds like the person is playing behind everyone else.

Only the Helix sounds like this. I don't get this sound behaviour from the reverbs in my GNX or VST's.

Maybe it's just me. I just don't like the way it pushes the sound to the background. Especially when the reverbs and delays are used.

 

My hope is that by giving the Line 6 techs these kinds of specifics. They can maybe do something about it.

 

-ScottA

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so probably at the end are the unaware end buyers those who pay the costs caused by second thoughts in terms of the device wear out

I don't know in the MI business what they do. Often I see open-box stuff for sale at different retailers. I assume that's this stuff. Same with "refurbished" (which I'm a big fan of).

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Has Glenn emailed the Satriani patch yet? I have all the other artist patches he's done so far through SRV, etc. Just sent me the latest versions a few days ago, but no Satch patch yet...

 

Good question! I guess I don't know... I was basing my experience of the patch on his video..??

lol, I must have totally dreamed up playing through it, doh! :)

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Hi spikey,

I had it for about two weeks. Which was more than enough time for me to evaluate it properly.

You might think that's not enough time. But I'm the kind of person that dives deep into new things and gets to know it very quickly. Faster than most.

You'll just have to trust me on that. 

 

Fair enough. Your right, I don't think you spent enough time but as always, YMMV.  Good luck on your next adventure then.  :)

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so probably at the end are the unaware end buyers those who pay the costs caused by second thoughts in terms of the device wear out

No. You won't be buying a returned item without being aware of it, unless you buy from somewhere like eBay, in which case it's eBay so you know it's not "retail new in box" anyway. All legitimate stores label such products as "open box" (if it's just a return re-shelved) or "manufacturer refurbished" if it went back to the manufacturer to be checked out and repaired or "floor model" if it was a demo unit. "Open box" Helices are currently going for around $1200, and are a great way to get one with a little discount without the risk associated with used stuff on eBay. (Open box items will still have a reasonable return policy and potentially a warranty, at least from reputable dealers.)

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I'm not sure if you're saying nope to me, but I paid $1200 for an open box Helix in minty shape (though it was listed as level 2; I could find no damage), and there are two more available at that same price at that store.

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Hello all.  Been a while.  Sold all my L6 gear except my Relay G50, but I still keep tabs now and then to see what's up, and I just had to comment on this.

 

Let's put this in car terms, similar to the Dodge analogy stated by spikey earlier:

 

If you paid full retail price for a Dodge Viper, then had to tweak it for more than 2 weeks to get it to drive in the manner it was advertised "off the showroom floor" so to speak, and were still unsatisfied, would you keep it and keep tweaking? Or would you move on to something else to see if you got results that satisfied you with less effort and only minor tweaking?  Regardless of his "skill level" as a mechanic or tone tweaker, if you invest that much time in anything, you should at least see some positive results.  He didn't.  So he moved on, and decided to make an account to explicitly try to communicate what was missing (to him) and maybe help L6 see some new potential options.  He didn't know about ideascale, as he didn't have an account already.

 

To that effect, wouldn't you continue to drive your old car that's reliable and does what you need it to do?  I totally get where he's coming from.  Been good to see you all.  Take care!

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Personally I would love to see an example of the sound you are looking for.  Doesn't have to be you, but any youtube video or clip of what you are looking for.  

Honestly, Glenn (the guy in the video above) puts his guitars further in the FRONT of the mix so we can hear the patch.  Just the opposite of what you are describing you hear.  I call it don't-let-the-guitar-player-do-the-mix syndrome but in Glenn's case it's applicable because he's showing off the guitar patch.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but at a technical level, the video posted pretty much an example of the opposite of what you are describing so I'd love to see/hear a post of what you think is "in front" or at least "in" the mix.   And yes I realize you already returned your unit, but simply for the sake of curiosity..  

 

Miles

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Hello all.  Been a while.  Sold all my L6 gear except my Relay G50, but I still keep tabs now and then to see what's up, and I just had to comment on this.

 

Let's put this in car terms, similar to the Dodge analogy stated by spikey earlier:

 

If you paid full retail price for a Dodge Viper, then had to tweak it for more than 2 weeks to get it to drive in the manner it was advertised "off the showroom floor" so to speak, and were still unsatisfied, would you keep it and keep tweaking? 

I used that analogy to state that good tone costs money, and if you were willing to skip good tone for cheap a price you really weren't interested in good tone to begin with. I stand by that analogy. In other words, you get what you pay for in most cases.... Would you put cheap knockoff strings on your Lespaul Custom ? If there was an option to put cheap A to D converters in Helix to save you a hundred bucks, would you want that? Really? I for one believe the tone of my guitar is worth the extra $. As always YMMV... 

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The car analogy is really stretching.

The simple fact is, even the best tools don't work for everyone. that's why there are 3 or 4 companies in this product space.

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The simple fact is, even the best tools don't work for everyone. that's why there are 3 or 4 companies in this product space.

Thats another reason why they also say, don't quit yer day job....  ;)

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Hi,

 

While most people are being cool.

I just want to say that I will not respond to people being rude. Or saying trollish things like I didn't know how to use it.

If you guys love it the way it is. That's cool. But it didn't quite make it for me. I guess I'm pickier than most people.

Don't let that spoil your enjoyment. My needs are just not the same as your needs.

 

I will say once again that the Helix is not "bad". I almost kept it.

If it was cheaper. I probably would have kept it, and worked around the things that I didnt like. Using other equipment.

But it just had too many negatives (see the first post) for me to justify spending the equivelent of an entire years Gas & Electric bill.

If I spend that kind of money on a guitar pedal. It has to do everything I want. And sound like I want, without the help of more equipment.

 

I am hoping that by telling them what I didn't like. They can possibly change it, or add to it, in the next version.

I want to own one. I want it to work and sound so good that I can't even consider returning it.

I rarely buy the first version of anything. And I think this one is suffering from version1 syndrome.

I'm still a potential customer. When the next one rolls out I will be very excited to try it, and hopefully keep it.

 

-ScottA

I want to live where you only spend the price of a Hekix for gas and electric for a year
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Really?

I live in upsdate NY and I thought we were fairly expensive here compared to most other states.

The Helix costs just over $1600.00 when you include the taxes. And my G&E bill runs between $1700 - $1800 per year. And that's for a small house (roughly 1500 sq feet) with a fairly new furnace.

I actually thought I was paying a lot for G&E here compared to other states.

 

-ScottA

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I'm posting this not to slam Line 6. But to give them some honest feedback.

 

I bought the Helix recently because of all positive word of mouth about it on the web.

I really liked the UI design. But I just could not get the kind of sound I wanted from it.

No matter what I did. The sound was always a little bit muddy. And it sounded like I was playing behind the band.

I wrote several custom patches, and I tried every option it had (EQ, compression, etc.) But it just didn't have the "presence" I wanted.

It always felt "Back of the Band". It lacked a cutting edge to my ears.

 

I have been using a Digitech GNX4 pedal for about 10 years. And while most of it is total garbage. I do have one custom Joe Satriani sounding style patch that makes the thing sound pretty darn good. Although a little bit thin sounding.

I spent $400.00 for this pedal roughly 10 years ago. And I'm basically only getting one good usable sound from it.

I was hoping the Helix would give me a catalog of other sounds to use. Plus a better "Satch" sound than my GNX4 pedal.

But I just did not like the bottom heavy and muddy sounds from the Helix.

 

On my GNX4. I can switch quickly and easily between wah & pitch shifter with the toe switch using the on board rocker pedal. And I use that all of the time.

On the Helix. You can't do that. You have to play this little game of disable the wah and enable the pitch shifter thing. That was very disappointing to me.

 

With my GNX4. If I lower the volume knob on my guitar to about half. As I pick the strings. The notes start off muted and then slowly ramp up. As If I'm rolling the volume knob up by hand. Eddie Van Halen uses this volume knob rolling technique very heavily in his solos.

This happens because the GNX is cheaper. But I have grown to really love this behavior. It makes soft songs sound so beautiful. And I use it constantly. And this behavior is gone on the Helix. Because the Helix is more accurate.

I would severely miss this behavior if it was taken away from me. Maybe this "auto volume roll up" can be built in as an effect?

 

 

In summation:

-The Helix has a thicker, muddier, sound than what I wanted. It's not really bad. But it lacked a cutting edge to my ears.

-My old GNX4 has a thinner, cheaper, sound than what I want. But I love the way the pedal works (even if it's inaccurate).

-The Helix removes some of the GNX4 behaviors that I love and use all of the time.

-The selection of amps was a bit limited compared to other pedals

 

If the Helix cost around $600.00. I probably would not have returned it.

I would have kept it and tried to mix it with my GNX4 pedal to try and get that middle sound that I'm looking for.

But at a price tag of $1500.00. It made no sense to keep it.

 

Please take these things as constructive feedback. And not criticisms. The unit just wasn't quite what I wanted or hoped it would be.

I wasn't turned off by it. But I wasn't $1500.00 worth of turned on by it either. ;-)

But it wasn't too far from the target. I actually thought about keeping it for a while.

I can't wait to try out the next version.

 

 

-ScottA

Hey bro, I have an old GNX4 and the preset disk made by a 3rd party (the good ones) I forget the name right now... I got it about a year or 2 ago when I was using my 11 rack for most playing out but wanted something I could leave at church and was easy to carry so at $80 bucks I thought hey how bad could it be it was a lot newer than my art sgx 2000 so how bad could it be? I got it, I thought it sounded great but when I played with the band it was like no matter how much louder I was I got lost in the mix and couldn't hear myself. I asked on the 11 rack forum about it and a fellow on there who owned it as well at one time (singtall) told me "that was the problem" with the GNX4 he explained that the digital "fizz" that the models had took so much mid range cut to sound good that you just couldn't cut though the mix with it and there is no "fix" except another MFX peddle and it was pretty much better as a door stop. I love the sound I got from my 11 rack and still have it but dialing in tones for me was a chore but with the help of singtall, it is a bad boy... but I wanted to get the Helix for the fact it was an all in one floor unit  and I can dial up a tone easily I love it. if you wan't something in the $600 range try out the 11 rack you get PT with it so its like they throw it in for free... or just look for a unit with the expansion pack on ebay and there around $300 the only bad thing is you need a midi foot controller also.

 

so the "playing behind the band" thing may have been the way you were EQing your tones... I guess if you scoop out to much of the mids you just can cut through the mix... ( I'm not an engineer so I may have the terminology wrong)

 

all that said I wanted to see if you would share that GNX4 preset with me so when I pass it along to someone they might be able to use it.  

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Hi jaminjimlp,

The problem with the sound in the Helix was definitley not my EQ settings. It's a weakness (or a strength depending on the listener) in the unit itself.
I tried every way possible to get the thing to push the sound forward (Eq., compression, Tone settings on individual pedals). But it always sounded too distant for my taste.

ColonelForbin posted a video of the Glenn Delaune Satriani patch.
Glenn is considered to be an expert at making patches by many. And when I listened to his Satriani patch I can hear the same problem plain as day.
It's not in your face. It's not crisp. It's sort of soft and distant sounding.
This is proof that it's not me or the settings I used. It's just the way the unit sounds.
I don't like the way the Helix delays and the reverbs push the sound away into the background.
I like my guitar to be up front, in your face, and crisp sounding. With lots of compression.
The Helix has more of a low end, softer, deeper, thicker sound to it than I like.

For anyone that doesn't hear what I hear. I can try to give you a way to hear something similar.
If you have a Helix. You can do this little experiment.
*Note that I'm going from memory here. And I can't remember the exact names.

-Create a new patch with nothing in it
-Add a distortion pedal from the "dist" option
-Now go through each pedal one at while playing.
 There is one in there that really stands out from the others called: "Valve-Rectifier" or something similar
The difference between the rectifier and the other pedals. Is similar to the difference between the Helix and my GNX4.
In other words. The rectifier was the ony usable dist pedal for me (that's not good).

That's where I would begin my sound. And I'm already above and beyond most of the other effects.

Next. This is where the sound change becomes more subtle.
Now add a slight amount of reverb to the patch. The sound of the guitar gets slightly push back(not good).
I'm guessing that not everyone will hear this. But I do, and it really, really bothered me.

My GNX4 is very bright. Too bright.
But it's got that in your face sound and high compression sound that I like.
That's why mixing them together could have given me the "perfect" sound.
But spending that kind of money on a pedal that needs a helping boost from another cheaper pedal made no sense to me.

The Helix sound is a good sound. But it's not the kind sound I like. It's too muddy and too distant.
If Line 6 can figure out how to make the next version hotter with more presence. Then it might be a keeper for me.

If not. It's still a good pedal. Just not the right one for me personally.


-ScottA

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OK, you are on a inconsistent, continuous loop now

(Helix sound is good, but you don't like it... You like your GNX4, but it's too bright)...

Save your money and buy something (else) - or, if you don't like it you can lump it.

Man, you already gave back your Helix - and now you sing like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owS7Cn2iKcY

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ScottAyers - 6 total posts on the forum , all in this thread. Makes you wonder, maybe you could have asked for some help? Or maybe its all about something different.

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Aw, leave the guy be. He didn't find what he wanted, so he moved on. No harm, no foul. Doesn't seem like a troll to me, but if he is, it'll fade away... I'm happy with my Helix, but it's not everybody's cup of meat.

 

Dave

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Hi jaminjimlp,

 

The problem with the sound in the Helix was definitley not my EQ settings. It's a weakness (or a strength depending on the listener) in the unit itself.

I tried every way possible to get the thing to push the sound forward (Eq., compression, Tone settings on individual pedals). But it always sounded too distant for my taste.

 

ColonelForbin posted a video of the Glenn Delaune Satriani patch.

Glenn is considered to be an expert at making patches by many. And when I listened to his Satriani patch I can hear the same problem plain as day.

It's not in your face. It's not crisp. It's sort of soft and distant sounding.

This is proof that it's not me or the settings I used. It's just the way the unit sounds.

I don't like the way the Helix delays and the reverbs push the sound away into the background.

I like my guitar to be up front, in your face, and crisp sounding. With lots of compression.

The Helix has more of a low end, softer, deeper, thicker sound to it than I like.

 

For anyone that doesn't hear what I hear. I can try to give you a way to hear something similar.

If you have a Helix. You can do this little experiment.

*Note that I'm going from memory here. And I can't remember the exact names.

 

-Create a new patch with nothing in it

-Add a distortion pedal from the "dist" option

-Now go through each pedal one at while playing.

 There is one in there that really stands out from the others called: "Valve-Rectifier" or something similar

The difference between the rectifier and the other pedals. Is similar to the difference between the Helix and my GNX4.

In other words. The rectifier was the ony usable dist pedal for me (that's not good).

That's where I would begin my sound. And I'm already above and beyond most of the other effects.

 

Next. This is where the sound change becomes more subtle.

Now add a slight amount of reverb to the patch. The sound of the guitar gets slightly push back(not good).

I'm guessing that not everyone will hear this. But I do, and it really, really bothered me.

 

My GNX4 is very bright. Too bright.

But it's got that in your face sound and high compression sound that I like.

That's why mixing them together could have given me the "perfect" sound.

But spending that kind of money on a pedal that needs a helping boost from another cheaper pedal made no sense to me.

 

The Helix sound is a good sound. But it's not the kind sound I like. It's too muddy and too distant.

If Line 6 can figure out how to make the next version hotter with more presence. Then it might be a keeper for me.

If not. It's still a good pedal. Just not the right one for me personally.

 

 

-ScottA

You know I meant to say in my other post but it was getting to long, one thing that I remember hearing Michael Angelo say when talking about his tone was "you know how most people when dialing in there tone cut the mids somewhat or all the way? I crank my mids all the way up to the max" and that guys guitar is in your face!!!  and seriously share that preset please... check out the 11 rack too its in your price range and is 10X better than the GNX4.... 

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Really?

I live in upsdate NY and I thought we were fairly expensive here compared to most other states.

The Helix costs just over $1600.00 when you include the taxes. And my G&E bill runs between $1700 - $1800 per year. And that's for a small house (roughly 1500 sq feet) with a fairly new furnace.

I actually thought I was paying a lot for G&E here compared to other states.

 

-ScottA

I am originally from upstate NY. Surprised that's all you pay. My electronic alone is more than that per year in a small home

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Op didn't mention tweaking the pre delay on the reverb. Of course the guitar is going to sound distant if the reverberations arrive very soon after the dry guitar, puts them both at a similar distance. Cranking up the pre delay puts the guitar right in your face. You have the choice of everything in between, how it should be.

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@BigRalphN

 

Yikes!!

Well. I do make an effort not to have more than one or two lights on at a time. And use the TV as a light source as much as I can. That helps to keep the electric bill down.

Not everyone can do that though. I might be part mole. ;)

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